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Jun 13 2014

Buchanan and the Perpetual Death of the West

How long can someone make the same dystopic prediction without it ever coming true and continue to get people to listen to them? In the case of the right wing, seemingly forever. For how long has Pat Buchanan been predicting the “death of the West”? Decades now. His latest:

How goes the Third World invasion of the United States?

According to the AP, the U.S. Border Patrol’s Rio Grande Valley sector made 148,017 arrests from Oct. 1 to May 17, while 62,876 were caught in the Tucson sector, the second-busiest crossing point.

That is almost 211,000 illegal aliens caught in just over half a year in just two sectors of the border. And that figure only tells us how many were caught, not how many got in, or how many of those caught were released and now reside among us….

Somehow the core contention of James Burnham’s “Suicide of the West,” out 50 years ago this year, comes to mind.

“Liberalism,” wrote Burnham. “is the ideology of Western suicide.”

America and the West must face up to what is happening to our countries and our civilization. Or we are going to lose them both forever.

Treating with contempt U.S. and European laws, peoples from failed states of the Third World are steadily filling up our countries and reducing our native-born into slowly shrinking national majorities.

If this continues over many more decades, Western nations as we knew them will disappear forever, and be remade in the image of those who have newly arrived, and the countries whence they came.

Oh come on Pat, just say it. Blurt it out, you know you want to. It’s all those dark-skinned people you don’t like. Everyone knows it. And you’re an old man now, so who really cares? Just let it out, you’ll feel better. Of course, you’ll ignore the fact that much of the American public believed the exact same thing about your Irish ancestors when they came here. Because being a right winger means never, ever having to consider evidence, logic or history.

50 comments

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  1. 1
    sh3baproject

    i think hes trying to say the word, but hes suffering from anmesia. which also explains him forgetting to use logic every second he mutters something stupid.

  2. 2
    RickR

    How goes the Third World invasion of the United States?

    Aaaaand I stopped reading right there. Thank you, Pat Buchanan, for saving me the time I would’ve spent reading the rest of your nonsense. You let me know, loud and clear, and right up front, “I’m a racist crank. Don’t waste your time.”

    Thanks for that.

  3. 3
    vereverum

    Well, isn’t that pretty much what happened to the Americas starting in earnest about the 16th century? He’s just seeing it from the other side of the fence as it were. And, more or less, isn’t that the entire history of mankind?

  4. 4
    aaronbaker

    Pat Buchanan, a whine that never mellows.

  5. 5
    Marcus Ranum

    For how long has Pat Buchanan been predicting the “death of the West”?

    In all fairness, he’s just parroting his buddy Marx.

  6. 6
    Larry

    peoples from failed states of the Third WorldEurope are steadily filling up our countries and reducing our native-born into slowly shrinking national majorities.

    Part of an essay written in the 17th century by a Native American watching ships appear on his coastline.

  7. 7
    matty1

    For how long has Pat Buchanan been predicting the “death of the West”?

    In all fairness, he’s just parroting his buddy Marx.

    I’m not that familiar with Marx and a google search on ‘”Death of the West” Marx’ just throws up pages about Buchanan accusing other people of being Marxist. Can you point me at a source for this?

  8. 8
    dugglebogey

    If the “we hate Mexicans” banner worked in Virginia, it’s going to work everywhere, and you’ll see every single republican jump on that fact because of it.

  9. 9
    colnago80

    Re matty1 @ #7

    Maybe Ranum means Groucho.

  10. 10
    Pierce R. Butler

    How long can someone make the same dystopic prediction without it ever coming true and continue to get people to listen to them?

    SFAIK, the christians still hold the record at 19 centuries and change.

  11. 11
    helenaconstantine

    I am no supporter of Buchanan–he is a maggot feeding on the corpse of the West. But the West is certainly dead. Take any group of high school students, tells the names of some of the major characters from Ovid, and ask them to tell their stories. They will stare at you in incomprehension. Ask them to sight-read a page of the Metamorphoses. How many of the supposedly educated people who read this blog could do the same?

  12. 12
    dingojack

    helenaconstantine – Is that education?
    Ask a Victorian scientist to describe the biochemistry of the Krebs cycle, how a magneto-heterodyne works or the how they’d go about discovering the composition of Eris and see the blank looks….
    Those Victorian scientists aren’t half as good as the kids of today.
    Dingo

  13. 13
    D. C. Sessions

    Why go even that far back? You get the same yield asking them about the major thinkers of the Enlightenment: zero.

    Actually, for all that his name is routinely invoked, it’s extremely doubtful that more than a handful of today’s “thought leaders” have ever read Das Kapital — which, as a work of descriptive economics, was pretty damned good for its time.

  14. 14
    Ellie

    @11 Sight reading Metamorphoses? Is that a trick question? Are you referring to an English translation or do you want them to read it in Latin? I’m older than dirt, and when I was a student, the only high school students who could read Latin were those who were in Latin classes.

  15. 15
    dingojack

    D. C Sessions – I’ve read it. I agree with his wife, not enough jokes.
    :) Dingo

  16. 16
    raven

    Net Migration from Mexico Falls to Zero—and Perhaps Less …
    www. pewhispanic.org /…/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-p…

    by JS Passel – ‎Cited by 82 – ‎Related articles
    Apr 23, 2012 – After four decades that brought 12 million current immigrants—most of whom came illegally—the net migration flow from Mexico to the United …

    Two years ago net migration from Mexico was…zero. Sure people run the border a lot. They also go home a lot.

    What was driving immigration was jobs. And when our economy hit the Great Recession, they all disappeared. I’m not sure if it has picked up again though. Unemployment is down from 10% to 6.3% but that is still high.

  17. 17
    raven

    While net migration from Mexico is or was zero, that might not mean immigration across the border is a net zero.

    There are tens of thousands of children crossing the border right now. Which is definitely odd and unusual.

    They are from further south, Honduras, Guatamala, and El Salvador. Apparently those countries aren’t doing so well right now so people are pointing their kids north and hoping. I suppose if it gets much worse, they will start throwing babies over the fence and running away or something.

    PS Honduras, Guatamala, and El Salvador are Libertarian paradises. Envirnomental and health and safety regulations are all but nonexistent, taxes are low, and you can get as rich as you want to. The result is few government services, a weak central government that can’t do much, and an economy run by intermarried oligarchies.

  18. 18
    Randomfactor

    What drives traffic across the border is physics: unequal pressures on either side of the line.

    Me, I’d rather equalize the pressure by helping the Central American states do better economically. The GOP for the past several years seems determined to lower our economy to their level instead. It did work, as raven noted…but there were some unpleasant side-effects.

  19. 19
    dhall

    It is true that the classical literary foundations of the West are no longer being taught in a great many schools in the US, both K-12 and college. A lot of other subjects are being neglected as well as the emphasis has shifted away from them. For instance, I can no longer teach a history class while assuming that the students have any kind of basic knowledge at all of anything historical. My colleagues have the same problems with political science, lit. classes, philosophy and more. In the modern history classes, one of the first things I have to do is explain the political spectrum from far right to far left because the majority of students have no idea what is meant by ‘right wing’ and ‘left wing.’ I expect a serious lack of knowledge about early history, but the ignorance of more modern history is amazing, and so is their lack of knowledge about what is happening now beyond the borders of their own little worlds. There is a notion that they don’t need to be taught much, because whatever they need to know they can find on the Internet, and they don’t understand that information does not equal knowledge, much less wisdom. There’s been a lot of discussion in academics about the loss of knowledge of the underpinnings of western civilization. I really don’t know how serious that loss is, or will be in the future, but it is happening, at least in the US.

  20. 20
    tommykey

    Yeah, well I predict Pat Buchanan will die. Not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but eventually.

    To pick up on dhall’s comments above about American historical amnesia, many Americans who complain about illegal immigration from Latin America either don’t know or don’t connect the problems with those countries at least in part due to the US and the Soviet Union fueling proxy wars in countres like El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua.

    So, apparently it is okay for us to have funded death squads in these countries that pillaged, raped and murdered, but Jose, don’t you dare think about crossing the border to pick strawberries!

  21. 21
    pocketnerd

    Those filthy illegals! Don’t they know equality, opportunity, and prosperity are only for native-born white Americans? Like Miss Liberty says: “Go away, you tired, you poor, you huddled masses yearning to breathe free! And especially go away brown people!”

  22. 22
    pocketnerd

    Thus Spake Zararaven, #17:

    PS Honduras, Guatamala, and El Salvador are Libertarian paradises. Envirnomental and health and safety regulations are all but nonexistent, taxes are low, and you can get as rich as you want to. The result is few government services, a weak central government that can’t do much, and an economy run by intermarried oligarchies.

    Libertarianism: The Road Back To Feudalism!™

  23. 23
    caseloweraz

    Indeed, dhall. This is an almost perfect summary of Mark Bauerlein’s The Dumbest Generation (review here.) IMO the attitude you describe, that retained knowledge is not important, is pernicious. One area where it has an impact is civics. The litmus test has always been whether someone could name their Senators and Representatives, but the lack of knowledge goes deeper than that — as we see on this blog every day. I am somewhat more informed than most, and I might not pass a citizenship test. While I would not predict “the death of the West” or America’s imminent collapse, the potential for damage to U.S. democracy is real.

  24. 24
    dingojack

    ‘The West’ = America (’cause nowhere else exists). Who knew?!?
    @@
    Dingo

  25. 25
    dingojack

    You can picture the scene:
    A crowd has gathered around a man who has collapsed, they are nervous, unsure of what to do. Suddenly a man confidently strides up, waves them aside imperiously and declares in loud steady voice:
    ‘Stand back, I’ll handle this. I can declaim Homer in the original Archaic Greek — by sight!’
    The crowd burst into relieved applause, knowing the collapsed man in in safe hands….

    @@

    And don’t get me started on how the kids of today can’t even knap a basic scraper, let alone an decent arrow point….

    Dingo

  26. 26
    caseloweraz

    Buchanan: If this continues over many more decades, Western nations as we knew them will disappear forever, and be remade in the image of those who have newly arrived, and the countries whence they came.

    This has happened throughout history. Empires fall, nations break apart and disappear, democracies perish. Many decades from now, whatever happens, Western nations as we know them today will have changed beyond recognition. It is as inevitable as personal death.

    But there are ways to prolong the life of a nation, and I’m sure that Buchanan knows what they are. Incessant warnings that all is lost unless one’s own particular ox is prevented from being gored are not among them.

    Regarding the problem of immigration, the way to solve it — as pointed out above — is to raise the standard of living (including personal freedoms) in source nations.

  27. 27
    dingojack

    Didn’t I read somewhere that the cost of an immigrant is much, much less than their benefit to the country they immigrate to?*

    Perhaps the solution is to allow people to migrate. ‘Rising tides lift all boats’ and all that.

    Dingo
    ——–
    * Perhaps someone can find the exact estimates. My Google-fu is a little fuddled at the moment.

  28. 28
    busterggi

    Why is Hitler’s greatest apologist still getting this much attention?

  29. 29
    Crimson Clupeidae

    How long can someone make the same dystopic prediction without it ever coming true and continue to get people to listen to them?

    I could answer this, but that would mean I’m making a dystopic prediction that would probably not come true, thereby causing the dystopic prediction to actually come true.

    I think the universe would disappear or implode.

    Alternately, nothing might happen……

  30. 30
    jonathangray

    EB:

    For how long has Pat Buchanan been predicting the “death of the West”? Decades now.

    It’s amusing how liberal atheists emphasise the importance of an awareness of ‘deep time’ when explicating Darwin — yet lose all sense of historical time when considering civilisational collapse. The decline and fall of the Roman imperium was a centuries-long process.

    Of course right up until the end there were liberals insisting everything was fine:

    AD 403 – Roman poet Aurelius Prudentius Clemens:

    Tribes far apart and sundered by the sea
    Are brought together through appeals and trials
    In common courts, through their commerce and trades
    In crowded marts, through intermarriage
    With those of other climes; for many bloods
    Are intermingled in a single race.

    Let those who harp upon our past defeats
    And ancient woes note that in your regime
    I suffer no such ills. No savage foe
    Knocks at my gates, no strange barbarian
    Roams through my captured streets and carries off
    My youth in bondage far beyond the Alps.

    Who now comes hungry to the circus shows?
    What mill is silent on Janiculum?
    What great provisions every province brings,
    What harvests from the earth’s rich bosoms flow
    Is shown by bread you give your people, Rome,
    Which feeds the sloth of such great multitudes.

    AD 410 – Alaric sacks Rome.

  31. 31
    jonathangray

    vereverum:

    Well, isn’t that pretty much what happened to the Americas starting in earnest about the 16th century? He’s just seeing it from the other side of the fence as it were.

    Larry:

    peoples from failed states of the Third WorldEurope are steadily filling up our countries and reducing our native-born into slowly shrinking national majorities.

    Part of an essay written in the 17th century by a Native American watching ships appear on his coastline.

    If population movements into the USA are comparable to white settlement in America, isn’t Buchanan right to be concerned? Are you suggesting he should shrug and say “Oh well, displacement of native populations is nothing new and anyway we whites probably deserve it for what our ancestors did to the redskins”? Insane.

  32. 32
    jonathangray

    dingojack:

    helenaconstantine – Is that education?

    Yes, it is.

    Ask a Victorian scientist to describe the biochemistry of the Krebs cycle, how a magneto-heterodyne works or the how they’d go about discovering the composition of Eris and see the blank looks….
    Those Victorian scientists aren’t half as good as the kids of today.

    Understanding science is instruction or training, not education. (Perhaps that’s why so many scientists seem to be both clever and irredeemably coarse — “You never cease to amaze me, that such a giant intellect could live in such a tiny mind”.) Science and technology can never be the basis of a civilisation; to think otherwise is to mistake one of the fruits for the roots.

  33. 33
    vereverum

    @jonathangray #31

    Are you suggesting he should shrug and say “Oh well, displacement of native populations is nothing new and anyway we whites probably deserve it for what our ancestors did to the redskins”?

    I would say the first part of your statement is a prudent attitude and is my own position though imho the word current instead of native would be more accurate.
    The second part about deserving is just plain silly.

  34. 34
    Anathema

    I don’t get why someone would consider immigrants from Latin America anti-Western anyway. Shouldn’t Buchanan treat migration from Latin American countries to the United States as internal migration within the West? Definitions of the West that exclude Latin America don’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

    Buchanan undoubtedly considers both Britain and it’s former American colonies to be part of the West. I’m also sure that he considers Spain and Portugal to be part of the West as well. So how come he doesn’t treat Spain and Portugal’s former American colonies as part of the West as well. The dominant languages of Latin American countries are European ones. The legal and political systems of Latin American countries are based on Western political and legal philosophy. The dominant religion is Christianity — when you get right down to it, a lot of Latin American countries are more Christian than most European countries.

    If you think of the West in linguistic, cultural, or political terms, I can’t think of any reason to include Britain, the United States, Spain, Portugal, and yet exclude Latin American countries. The only way that such a system of categorization makes sense is if it is based primarily on race, rather than on shared cultural, political, or linguistic heritage.

  35. 35
    D. C. Sessions

    The only way that such a system of categorization makes sense is if it is based primarily on race, rather than on shared cultural, political, or linguistic heritage.

    Well, fancy that.

  36. 36
    felidae

    I wish there was a practical time machine so we could dump Paddy back in the middle of the 19th century when the Irish were considered the scum of the earth in the USA and let him see how it is to be on the receiving end of hate and discrimination

  37. 37
    jonathangray

    vereverum:

    I would say the first part of your statement is a prudent attitude and is my own position though imho the word current instead of native would be more accurate.

    Do you then advocate a passive quietism in the face of such dislocations? Should King Harold have laid down his arms and meekly submitted to the Norman yolk? Should the redskins have done the same to the white settlers?

    The second part about deserving is just plain silly.

    It is, but it’s plain many white liberals are prone to such ethnomadochism.

  38. 38
    jonathangray

    Anathema:

    The only way that such a system of categorization makes sense is if it is based primarily on race, rather than on shared cultural, political, or linguistic heritage.

    Is race real?

  39. 39
    jonathangray

    [@37

    ethnomasochism]

  40. 40
    D. C. Sessions

    Is race real?

    As a motivation? SRSLY?

  41. 41
    jonathangray

    [@37

    ... & "yoke"]

  42. 42
    freehand

    jonathangray – One difference between the Hispanic infusion into North America is that they aren’t shooting Anglos and taking our houses, nor our land to use for their own inscrutable purposes.
    .
    Scientists aren’t educated? I know scientists who translate Greek classics for fun during their lunch hour. Feynman played bongos in a Brazilian marching band. I have also seen liberal arts majors who couldn’t tell you what a common center of gravity is or the difference between molecules and subatomic particles. Do you have any evidence that scientists are less educated than lit majors? I suppose if you define language skills as education but science as trivial, you could make the claim work.
    .
    Is race real?
    .
    Depends on how you define it, yes? Like religion, morality, religion, beautiful, and patriotic, it is well to get the “definition for the purpose of this conversation” out of the way. If the person in question thinks it real, he could certainly categorize people by that criterion.

  43. 43
    colnago80

    Re freehand @ #42

    If science is trivial, maybe the Phalangist would like to explain the strings hypothesis to us. Or quantum entanglement. Or the 2 slit problem. Or the twins paradox.

  44. 44
    vereverum

    @ jonathangray #37
    Ah, that’s a tough one. I presume you mean fatalistically doing nothing rather than religious philosophy.
    Well, Harold’s group had been in power for about 500 years after taking the land away from the Britons, so maybe it was time for a change. It was his first year and the fact that he had to play a semi-final match against Norway before meeting the Normans probably hurt his effort, but yes, you need to look at the options and decide what to do about it. For example, when displacement is recognized and you have the time (Harold didn’t) you could try integrating the immigrants into your current society rather than trying to ghettoize or demonize them. Also, your concept of what is happening plays a lot. The current influx of Hispanics is just the continuation of Phillip II’s foreign policy from the 16th century. Before that, few in South America spoke Spanish. As for those from other cultures, the U.S. is a rowdy and largely uncontrolled society which changes people to fit within it (which makes some squeal since they don’t want to change) and many of those coming do come here to make a better life for themselves and fit in. I don’t see the problems P.B. is wailing about actually happening for another couple o’ hundred years; I think it is inevitable but the changes won’t be as bad as the Unpleasantness of 1066 (or Culloden, for that matter).

  45. 45
    dhall

    #30 – maybe I’m a little picky, but the city of Rome hadn’t been the capital of the Roman Empire for nearly a century by 410; it was pretty much a backwater, as the capital had been moved to Constantinople by Constantine I. In other words, when Rome was sacked, it didn’t wreck the Roman government. Losing the western provinces was more a blow to prestige than anything as the Greek-speaking eastern half was the wealthy, cosmopolitan half. Although it’s known in the history books as the Byzantine Empire after that, the actual Roman Empire would last for another thousand years after losing the city of Rome and the western half, even if it steadily shrank during the last three or four centuries of its existence, as the various Muslim empires gradually chipped away at it.

  46. 46
    dingojack

    Well, Little Jon-Jon, next time you’re chased by a low flying Nazi perhaps remembering Charlemagne’s own words will help, but would they allow you to perform a differential diagnosis of a man who had collapsed in the street?

    (Or knap an decent arrowhead?)

    Dingo

  47. 47
    jonathangray

    vereverum:

    Well, Harold’s group had been in power for about 500 years after taking the land away from the Britons, so maybe it was time for a change.

    By what measure? By whose? And how would Harold have known? He might have pointed to the example of his great predecessor Alfred, who fought on against what a more rational man might have judged impossible odds — and won. Resistance isn’t always futile. (“The Inevitable is not the high tower of the Wise, hut merely the sanctuary of the Timid” – Emrys ap Iwan)

    (And of course if Harold had hung his head and shamefacedly advised his men to lay down their weapons and return home to their wives and sons and daughters and tell them to meekly submit to the harsh rule of their new Norman overlords, that head would most likely have left its shoulders in short order. Surrender was not the Saxon way. “Thoughts must be the braver, heart more valiant, courage the greater as our strength grows less.”)

    At least your defeatist attitude precludes any moral grandstanding regarding European colonisation of the New World. Perhaps it was “time for a change” for the Aztecs and Red Indians too!

  48. 48
    jonathangray

    freehand:

    jonathangray – One difference between the Hispanic infusion into North America is that they aren’t shooting Anglos and taking our houses, nor our land to use for their own inscrutable purposes.

    Who said population replacement had to be violent?
    .

    Scientists aren’t educated? I know scientists who translate Greek classics for fun during their lunch hour. Feynman played bongos in a Brazilian marching band. I have also seen liberal arts majors who couldn’t tell you what a common center of gravity is or the difference between molecules and subatomic particles. Do you have any evidence that scientists are less educated than lit majors? I suppose if you define language skills as education but science as trivial, you could make the claim work.

    Obviously my phrasing was provocative. Of course scientists can be civilised and educated, just as someone with a formal schooling in the classics or humanities can still be a philistine. My point was simply that scientific method and the knowledge it brings are not what make a civilisation civilised.
    .

    Is race real?

    Depends on how you define it, yes?

    What think you of Steven Pinker’s formulation?

    “Nowadays it is popular to say that races do not exist but are purely social constructions. Though that is certainly true of bureaucratic pigeonholes such as ‘colored,’ ‘Hispanic,’ ‘Asian/Pacific Islander,’ and the one-drop rule for being ‘black,’ it is an overstatement when it comes to human differences in general. The biological anthropologist Vincent Sarich points out that a race is just a very large and partly inbred family. Some racial distinctions thus may have a degree of biological reality, even though they are not exact boundaries between fixed categories. Humans, having recently evolved from a single founder population, are all related, but Europeans, having mostly bred with other Europeans for millennia, are on average more closely related to other Europeans than they are to Africans or Asians, and vice versa. Because oceans, deserts, and mountain ranges have prevented people from choosing mates at random in the past, the large inbred families we call races are still discernible, each with a somewhat different distribution of gene frequencies. In theory, some of the varying genes could affect personality or intelligence (though any such differences would at most apply to averages, with vast overlap between the group members).”— The Blank Slate.

  49. 49
    jonathangray

    colnago80:

    If science is trivial, maybe the Phalangist [sic] would like to explain the strings hypothesis to us. Or quantum entanglement. Or the 2 slit problem. Or the twins paradox.

    I never said science was “trivial”. It’s one of the towering intellectual achievements of mankind.

    dingojack:

    Well, Little Jon-Jon, next time you’re chased by a low flying Nazi perhaps remembering Charlemagne’s own words will help, but would they allow you to perform a differential diagnosis of a man who had collapsed in the street?

    No … But then, one might ask whether technical or medical knowledge alone can form the sort of person who would want to resist tyranny or help someone in distress.

  50. 50
    vereverum

    @jonathangray #47
    My ad hoc measure, obviously open to disagreement. I suppose you could develop a metric by examining the duration of a large number of nations, chiefdoms, etc. By now, that surely has been done.
    Could’ve claimed that William was due the kingship even though William had actually tricked him or perhaps Edward really did promise William the succession; in any event, supersession doesn’t necessarily lead to a bad end: Esau seems to have done OK, and the last time the Godwins laid down their arms to the king they came out very well indeed. But as to your question about how would Harold have known, Harold would have to have known how William was likely to react. William thought he had justification to be king; there may not have even been an invasion. Norway, otoh, had no claim other than invitation. Which makes for an odd situation in that Harald from Norway was a Viking and the Normans are descended from Vikings. Maybe they were still miffed at Alfred.

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