Duke Energy Hit With New Illegal Dumping Allegations »« Jacobs: Mexicans, Native Americans Should Repent

She’s Got Big Purity Balls

Here’s a report about “purity balls,” which are just creepy as hell. Daughters pledging their virginity to their fathers and determined to not even kiss a man until their wedding night. The creator of this idea says fathers need to “take back their territory.” Because their daughters are their property, of course, until title is transferred to her husband. This makes my skin crawl.

Comments

  1. Akira MacKenzie says

    Place your bets! Place your bets! How mant of them will wind up pregnant by the time they graduate high school?

  2. raven says

    From an outsider perspective, it must really be miserable being a fundie xian kid.

    Do they have any idea how weird this looks to normal people?

    I do know two people who were raised in this environment, homeschooled and everything. They now live on the coast and are born again Pagans.

  3. Wylann says

    Great, now I’m going to have that AC/DC song stuck in my head.

    I might have to file a suit against FtBorg!!

  4. DaveL says

    Interesting how such things are never thought of for boys.

    Oh, they do try to make halfhearted noises about it from time to time. Mostly when they think liberal outsiders are watching.

  5. raven says

    Place your bets! Place your bets! How mant of them will wind up pregnant by the time they graduate high school?

    The teenage pregnancy rate is higher in fundie areas. They say it isn’t a problem because the kids all have shotgun marriages. The fundies also have a high divorce rate.

    Yes, everything is going according to god’s plan.

    Ask Sarah Palin how that works. One kid got pregnant as a teenager and never finished high school. The son had a quick marriage followed by a birth and a quick divorce.

    Doesn’t take much to be a hero to the christofascists. Working sex organs and nonworking brains will do it.

  6. dingojack says

    Wylann -

    “Some balls are held for charity
    And some for fancy dress
    But when they’re held for pleasure
    They’re the balls that I like best
    My balls are always bouncing
    To the left and to the right
    It’s my belief that my big balls
    Should be held every night.”

    :D Dingo

  7. John Pieret says

    The local Impurity Balls (teenage drinking parties, back seats of cars, etc.) can lick their Purity Balls.

  8. says

    “Interesting how such things are never thought of for boys.”

    That’s only because the book of perfect morality never had a formal system of selling them as breeding stock.

  9. starskeptic says

    “Interesting how such things are never thought of for boys.”

    Oh – it’s thought of all right – but that’s all it is – just a thought…

  10. A Masked Avenger says

    I see a sad, sad irony here: imagine how great it would be if there were a cultural ritual affirming young women’s absolute right to self-determination over their own bodies? A big middle finger to harassment, coercion, peer pressure, and all other forms on non-consensual sexual interaction? Telling young women to have sex when, and only when, they freely wish to? I’m not a young woman, but I think that could be something awesome.

    Instead we have this “pledge” that recognizes young women’s sexuality as the property of God, their fathers, their future husbands.

    The video said that 85% of the pledges will not be kept. It doesn’t say how the young women feel about their pledge, looking back. They do a superficial job, quoting a woman speaking very articulately against it, and one or two women and girls simply affirming how awesome it is.

    If there are women who do think the pledge is good, I’m guessing it’s because it offers a defense against some kinds of non-consensual behavior like Wanda Sykes’s “detachable vagina”: “Sorry boys–I can’t. My Dad has it, and he won’t let me use it.” In a twisted world where you’re robbed of autonomy and agency, you sometimes find relief when what’s demanded of you happens to be what you actually want. But because you DO live in this twisted world, you’re stuck dealing with all the consequences when what you want ISN’T what’s demanded of you. For every young woman who used the pledge to fend off a sexual assault, there are apparently about 5 who had sex despite the pledge, and had to deal with whatever guilt or other price it exacted of them.

    Thinking about the above is what made me wonder if it wouldn’t be awesome to have “Self-Determination Balls.” Women can bring any date they want, except that any dates violating any woman’s boundary will be instantly evicted. Replace the pledge with an affirmation like, “My body is my own, and nobody decides what to do with my body except me. I will not use my body in any way to which I am not fully and freely consenting. I will not tolerate any attempt to persuade or force me to do anything to which I don’t consent.” Something like that, anyway. Add in some sort of ceremonial bit, and a fun dance with good snacks.

    Anything to that idea?

  11. teawithbertrand says

    The young lady’s comments starting at 3:30 tell you all you need to know. She has zero sense of self worth beyond being thought of as pretty by men. Sad, really.

  12. Alverant says

    “The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.”

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  13. ButchKitties says

    @Masked Avenger: if you wanted to appropriate the purity ball language, you could call your party a Purity Bash: a somewhat ritualized event where sexual self-determination is affirmed and sexual purity is struck with a crushing blow.

  14. Menyambal says

    It reminds me of the dinner where I got sworn into a college honors society. Lots of very smart kids in there, and me as an older student. We all stood up to recite the pledge, with its 1800s floweriness, and I think I was the only one who blinked when we went through the bit about preserving our essences—it wasn’t quite that, or that obvious—but I realized that we had just promised to not masturbate, all there as a dressed-up group, with all our proud families and faculty witnessing. (I had to ask a rather wicked friend if she had noticed anything odd in the oath, and she knew exactly what I meant, and said nobody catches the meaning, there.)

  15. Pierce R. Butler says

    The whole concept of purity as applied to human beings (instead of, e.g., chemical solutions) simply doesn’t work.

    Except as a control mechanism as Voltaire described in terms of believing absurdities and committing atrocities.

  16. dingojack says

    A Masked Avenger -

    Wanda Sykes’s “detachable vagina”: – any relation to Detachable Penis‘? :)

    “… wouldn’t be awesome to have “Self-Determination Balls.” Women people can bring any date they want, except that any dates violating any woman’s anybody’s boundary will be instantly evicted. Replace the pledge with an affirmation like, “My body is my own, and nobody decides what to do with my body except me. I will not use my body in any way to which I am not fully and freely consenting. I will not tolerate any attempt to persuade or force me to do anything to which I don’t consent.” ”

    FTFY

    Dingo

  17. says

    …and determined to not even kiss a man until their wedding night.

    What?! I can’t speak for the rest of hetero-maledom, but if I’m dating a girl who refuses even to kiss me, I’m not thinking marriage material, I’m thinking GTFO.

  18. anne mariehovgaard says

    Ew is right. Fathers who think like that should not be allowed to have unsupervised contact with their daughters.

  19. A Masked Avenger says

    Dingo,

    Sure, that’s a reasonable fix. Although it’s women who are disproportionately deprived of agency and bodily autonomy, so the idea is particularly apropos in their case.

  20. A Masked Avenger says

    ButchKitties,

    I’d be reluctant to invoke “purity” at all. It’s too redolent of sexual oppression, and it’s antithesis is too suggestive of slut shaming.

  21. says

    Ewww. What particularly caught my attention is when they walked under the sword arch. There’s nothing like big scary phallic symbols to remind those girls who really owns them.

    And the girl talking about extensively about “saving herself”, ugh. It’s obviously been drilled into their heads that their “self” = their vaginas and nothing else. I don’t see any sense of self esteem being brought into this, or valuing these girls for all their talents and intelligence. No, the talk is just about sex, sex and sex, even for girls as young as eight! (shudder)

    Now, I would love to see a ball where the girls get to dress up like princesses, or anything else they feel like dressing up as, and the dads take a vow to honor and support their growing independence and ability to make decisions for themselves. Where the young women are celebrated for their value as human beings, not as breeding stock. And then dancing and food, of course. That I could get behind.

  22. zmidponk says

    Area Man:

    What?! I can’t speak for the rest of hetero-maledom, but if I’m dating a girl who refuses even to kiss me, I’m not thinking marriage material, I’m thinking GTFO.

    What if you find out the reason she doesn’t like to kiss is, say, because it brings up bad memories, due to abuse, of one kind or another? Or, for something a bit less severe, she simply has some dental problems she’s a bit embarrassed about? Would you still tell her to GTFO simply because she won’t kiss you?

  23. says

    Place your bets! Place your bets! How many of them will wind up pregnant by the time they graduate high school?

    There’s no need to bet– the statistics are out there and known, and they show that not only are kids who were taught abstinence-only just as likely to have sex outside of marriage (I don’t say “before,” because that assumes there will be a marriage), but they’re less likely to use protection when they do.

    Does this prove that abstinence-only is wrong to its proponents? Of course not– all it proves is that the powers of iniquity are strong and ubiquitous, and need to be fought with increased ferocity (and funding).

    The notion of people being pure or impure, sexually or otherwise, is a total fiction. It’s a supernatural concept as much as demons and angels, only the damage caused by the insistence on its reality as a morally relevant category is dramatically higher. It might be, for that matter, the most damaging concept that religion has inflicted on the world. It relies on the idea that God created us a certain way and if we behave in specific ways that God doesn’t like (with no demonstrable connect to any kind of harm to anyone), we have become sullied by the world and are not worthy of his favor.

    Notions of moral purity underlie opposition to miscegenation and racial mixing generally, anti-gay bigotry up to and including torture and death, women being treated as non-persons, property to be dealt amongst men, and general opposition to “improper” mixing between “our kind” and “theirs.”

    I would say that moral purity is a lie told to control, but the sad thing is that the same people who inflict it on others are themselves victims as well.

  24. says

    And considering the role purity balls play in this culture, and the fact that it’s neither new nor funny, that headline for this post seems a little…..ill-advised.

  25. says

    Disgusting! Where are their priorities? America really has gone down hill. The parents have the time and money for a ball for their daughters, but not the time and money for an arranged marriage and their dowry?

  26. dingojack says

    A Masked Avenger – Too true. But I think teaching young people that respect is something you owe to all fellow humans* is important (regardless of which sex they are).
    Dingo
    ——-
    * Not that my generation did much in that respect.

  27. dingojack says

    I should add ‘regrettably’ to the above footnote.
    The good news is that my nephew (if he’s any indication) have taken it on-board (well a shit load more than we did, fortunately). I have hope for the future, knowing that Gen X won’t in in control for ever.
    Onward and upward!
    Dingo

  28. D. C. Sessions says

    Speaking as an insufferably-smug father of a young married woman:

    If you want to teach them to respect their own autonomy (or anything else), some big ritual event is not the way to go about it. You start by reading them The Paper Bag Princess when they’re barely old enough to sit through it, by how you treat women in their lives, by how you demand that the boys and men around them treat them, by listening at least as much as you talk, and so forth for the rest of their lives. It’s the dinner table, not the banquet table.

    Long project, but worth it like nothing else.

  29. ButchKitties says

    Masked Avenger,

    You’re right. The more I thought about it, the more I realized it wouldn’t work.

  30. greg1466 says

    Why do I get the feeling that for a large percentage of these fathers and daughters, incest doesn’t count as a loss of purity?

  31. Sastra says

    I had a friend who was very religious and deeply into the idea of “courtship” as opposed to dating. She explained all the many rules she had for her teenage daughter and her ‘boyfriend’: no bodily contact, no kissing, hand holding only in a certain way and meetings only in the presence of the family. All clothing and language must be “modest.” “Our house, our rules, God’s rules.” My friend and her husband were very proud of their firm, old-fashioned stance.

    At twelve midnight before the dawn of her 18th birthday the daughter snuck out of the house with a suitcase and moved in with the boyfriend. For a while they couldn’t even be found. She had literally run away.

    My friend dropped the ‘courtship’ crap … and the smugness. And made up with the daughter, because my friend was nicer than her religion.

  32. says

    What if you find out the reason she doesn’t like to kiss is, say, because it brings up bad memories, due to abuse, of one kind or another? Or, for something a bit less severe, she simply has some dental problems she’s a bit embarrassed about? Would you still tell her to GTFO simply because she won’t kiss you?

    Assuming she opened up to me about these things, I’d try to be understanding and work through them with her (though what kind of dental problem could we possibly be talking about here, something you can only detect with a tongue in her mouth?). But I would expect the issue to be overcome at some point. I wouldn’t stay with someone long-term who refused to be kissed because of some hang-up.

    But we’re not talking here about psychological issues that deserve sympathy. We’re talking about a conscientious choice (with the caveat that these are young girls who don’t really know what they’re pledging to, and few if any will adhere to it). If a girl refused to kiss me because of some stupid pledge or a misguided sense of purity, then it’s definitely GTFO. That’s not my idea of a healthy relationship.

  33. scienceavenger says

    Interesting how such things are never thought of for boys

    That’s because boys already have balls, duh!

  34. smrnda says

    On the ‘purity bash’ idea, I’d prefer an Autonomy Bash, but that is kind of a tough one to say.

    All said, I would have been extremely creeped out by my father being *that interested* in my sexuality.

  35. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    What if you find out the reason she doesn’t like to kiss is, say, because it brings up bad memories, due to abuse, of one kind or another? Or, for something a bit less severe, she simply has some dental problems she’s a bit embarrassed about? Would you still tell her to GTFO simply because she won’t kiss you?

    ….is there something unreasonable about not wanting to be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t want the same things as you in terms of sexual/affectionate contact, for whatever reason?

  36. magistramarla says

    I first ran across this “purity pledge” thing when a HS freshman in one of my classes showed up wearing what appeared to be a wedding band. When asked about it by her peers, she explained that it meant that she had pledged her purity to her father and would wear it until given one by a husband. Other students snickered about that. Over the course of the school year, I heard several of them say that there wasn’t a guy (or gal) in the school who would even want to date her or her like-minded xian friends, since they were so closed-minded, arrogant and insufferable. Teens can spot bullshit very quickly.
    This young lady also claimed that she signed up for my Latin class “because she wanted to read the bible in its original Latin”. She was very upset that we were reading about the culture and the writings of pagan Romans. She didn’t believe me when I told her that her bible had gone through several translations in several languages by the time that it was translated into Latin. I couldn’t say anything, but I agreed with the students who called her arrogant and insufferable.

  37. says

    I’ve spent time–in the dark of a bedroom–with several young ladies who were somewhat public about their Christianity. So, they couldn’t have “SEX” but, well, they had figured out some pleasurable “work arounds”.

  38. pacal says

    All this guarding of women’s vulvas from “unauthorized” invasion s super creepy. Basically these young ladies are being told that they are commodities of high value to be sold for a high price if they keep their vulvas “pure”. And of course their vulvas are not theirs but owned by their fathers and future spouses who are entitled to them as commodities to be sold by the father and to be enjoyed as “pure” and unsullied by the spouse.

    Isn’t it “nice” how once again a return to “tradition” reducing marriage to a sale and prostitution.

  39. noxiousnan says

    When I saw the title, my immediate, distopian response was that they’d somehow come up with a way to combine chastity belts with ben wa balls.

    …I should stfu before I give anyone ideas.

  40. zmidponk says

    Area Man:

    Assuming she opened up to me about these things, I’d try to be understanding and work through them with her (though what kind of dental problem could we possibly be talking about here, something you can only detect with a tongue in her mouth?). But I would expect the issue to be overcome at some point. I wouldn’t stay with someone long-term who refused to be kissed because of some hang-up.

    What you seem to be suggesting there is that, even if you meet someone who you connect with on a deep and personal level, that seems a perfect match for you in just about every way, but just has a thing about kissing, as far as you’re concerned, they better get over their hang-ups. Frankly, that makes you sound very controlling – if your potential partner isn’t exactly as you want them, they better change to fit you, or GTFO.

    But we’re not talking here about psychological issues that deserve sympathy. We’re talking about a conscientious choice (with the caveat that these are young girls who don’t really know what they’re pledging to, and few if any will adhere to it). If a girl refused to kiss me because of some stupid pledge or a misguided sense of purity, then it’s definitely GTFO. That’s not my idea of a healthy relationship.

    Sorry, to me, the idea of rejecting a girl purely because she has some wacky ideas about not kissing or having sex is uncomfortably close to the idea that the only important part of a relationship with a girl is the fact you can have sex with her – and viewing your partner as simply a receptacle for your penis is the very epitome of an unhealthy relationship.

  41. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    What you seem to be suggesting there is that, even if you meet someone who you connect with on a deep and personal level, that seems a perfect match for you in just about every way, but just has a thing about kissing, as far as you’re concerned, they better get over their hang-ups. Frankly, that makes you sound very controlling – if your potential partner isn’t exactly as you want them, they better change to fit you, or GTFO.

    Oh for fuck’s fucking sake.

    Sorry, to me, the idea of rejecting a girl purely because she has some wacky ideas about not kissing or having sex is uncomfortably close to the idea that the only important part of a relationship with a girl is the fact you can have sex with her – and viewing your partner as simply a receptacle for your penis is the very epitome of an unhealthy relationship.

    So don’t have a relationship with him, if caring about sexual/affectionate contact is a dealbreaker for you. Boom. Done.

    Oh, wait, that doesn’t give you the chance to feel superior, does it?

  42. matty1 says

    Maybe I’m misreading but I see Azykroth as saying “There’s no point in a relationship if the two people have fundamentally different ideas about what that relationship should be” not “My desires take priority”. I agree GTFO was perhaps not the most sensitive way of phrasing it but the basic idea is not unreasonable unless you think people have an obligation to stick with relationships that aren’t going well.

  43. says

    forestdragon (#2) -

    Interesting how such things are never thought of for boys.

    Which, of course, begs the question: Who are the boys getting off with, if they are getting off? Each other? Paying for sex? Family members? Rape? Animals?

    I’ve seen that attitude in countries I’ve lived in: women who lose their virginity are “tainted” while males are free to do what they like with impunity. Guess who gets the blame, who is assumed to be unfaithful, if there’s an STD transmitted between them?

  44. scienceavenger says

    Sorry, to me, the idea of rejecting a girl purely because she has some wacky ideas about not kissing or having sex is uncomfortably close to the idea that the only important part of a relationship with a girl is the fact you can have sex with her

    Necessary /=/ sufficient.

  45. zmidponk says

    Azkyroth:

    So don’t have a relationship with him, if caring about sexual/affectionate contact is a dealbreaker for you. Boom. Done.

    Caring about affectionate contact is one thing, making the immediate availability of sex, or even, as what Area Man actually said, the availability of kissing, as the number one, absolute priority in a relationship, bar none, and making that so important in the relationship that there can be no relationship without it is something else. From what Area Man was saying, in any relationship he’s in, the latter is the case.

    Oh, and, as far as I can gather, Area Man is a straight guy (though I could be wrong about that), and I definitely am a straight guy, so I definitely won’t be having a relationship with him regardless.

    Oh, wait, that doesn’t give you the chance to feel superior, does it?

    I’m just trying to understand why what seems, to me, one aspect of many in a relationship, is such a major thing to Area Man that he would categorically reject a potential partner based purely on that one thing and one thing alone. From what he’s said, whether it’s consciously or unconsciously, the reason is that he regards any potential partner as someone to put his penis inside and cater to his sexual whims, with any other part of the relationship coming a quite distant second to that. Now, if that’s accurate (it is possible it’s not, but it is certainly what is suggested by what he’s written), then the only relationship he can expect is one where he actually finds a partner that is willing to be a sex-toy with a pulse for him. That’s certainly not what I would call a healthy relationship – which is exactly the judgement he was passing on relationships with these girls that say they don’t want to have sex before marriage, even if he and I agree that they’re saying that for absurd reasons, probably have no idea what they’re agreeing to and most won’t stick to it anyway.

  46. zmidponk says

    Of course, I should point out that the other thing that’s wrong with Area Man’s original comment is that putting pressure on girls to have sex is just as bad as putting pressure on them to not have sex – and one way which can be used to do that is ‘have sex with me or GTFO’, especially if they’re girls who, like these ones, are brought up with the ‘you only exist to please a man’ bullshit drummed into them.

Leave a Reply