Wingnut Wants Secession Over Gay Rights


Selwyn Duke, one of the more ridiculous of the wingnuts (and imagine the competition for that title) has a column at Alan Keyes’ Renew America site saying that America should break up like Yugoslavia did because he just can’t stand to live in a country where gay people are treated equally. Oh, and because liberals are evil heathens. He starts by noticing a pattern:

Conservatives are generally very nice people – who never saw a culture war they couldn’t lose. That is to say, we often hear cracks about how Barack Obama and his ilk may “evolve” on issues, but conservatives exhibit that tendency, too, and their evolution goes something like this:

“Marriage is between one man and one woman, period!”

Five years later…

“I can accept civil unions, but marriage shouldn’t be redefined.”

After five years more:

“The states can do whatever they want, just keep the feds out of it.”

And 10 years further on:

“People can do what they want. How does faux marriage affect me, anyway?” (This is the point British “conservatives” have reached.)

And at an even later juncture it’s, “Why shouldn’t homosexuals have the right to ‘marry’? It’s a matter of equality.” (Just ask some “conservatives” in Sweden.)

Oh, this isn’t limited to marriage or anything else some dismiss as “social issues.” Conservatives were against Social Security (in FDR’s time) before they tolerated it before they were for it before they demanded it. And they are against socialized medicine. But should it endure for 15 years, their children will tolerate it and then accept it and then expect it – as today’s conservatives do in Western Europe.

I know, right? They did the same thing on slavery. And womens’ suffrage. And ending segregation. And the Civil Rights Act. In fact, wait a few more years until society overwhelmingly accepts those things and not only do conservatives support them, they take credit for them and pretend it was their idea all along. And then they proceed to make the same stupid arguments against the next civil rights movement. And they never seem to learn from this.

In a word, today’s conservatives are generally people who have assimilated into yesterday’s liberals’ culture. And every time we compromise – on civil unions, big-government programs or whatever it may be – we assimilate further. And what is the nature of this evolution?

It is nothing less than a superior culture being subsumed by an inferior one.

Now, all this perhaps sounds hopeless. Are we damned to inexorable and irrevocable movement toward the “left,” at least until the complete collapse of civilization is wrought? Well, there is an alternative to assimilation.

Separation.

There has been some talk of secession lately. But note that there is a prerequisite for political separation: cultural separation. Serbia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Croatia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Slovenia didn’t become their own nations because they suddenly thought the name Yugoslavia was no longer cool, but because of profound cultural differences. And Catalans in Spain some time back empowered parties that have called for an independence referendum this year because of cultural differences. Make the cultural differences great enough, and separation (assuming you can avoid bondage via a governmental iron fist, which is the other possibility) is a natural by-product…

We only need to look at how it’s done all over the world. And there are two ways. To illustrate the first, consider how ardent Muslims avoid being subsumed. They don’t view fellow citizens in a host nation as national brothers.

But as the “other.”

Oh, the others may occupy the same borders, but they are as alien as anyone outside them. Their culture is to be rejected not just because it’s decadent and despicable – and our liberal-created variety is certainly those things – but because it is of the other. So it is with the others’ laws, social codes, and traditions, too: they are born of an infidel, alien culture and are to be viewed with extreme suspicion if not hostility.

And this is precisely how leftists should be viewed…

We can hate what is in front of us, love what is behind us, or both. But if we’re sheep and not soldiers, compromisers and not crusaders, Western civilization’s days will be behind us – and in front, perhaps, a thousand years of darkness.

Oh yes, the end of civilization! And humanity! And dogs and cats living together!

Comments

  1. roggg says

    Would it really be so bad if all the hard-core bigots of the religious right took over, say, Alabama, and all the progressive folk in the state did a 1 for 1 asset swap with them to get out of the state, and it became a foreign country? I’m thinking maybe everyone would be better off…

  2. Chiroptera says

    And what is the nature of this evolution?

    It is nothing less than a superior culture being subsumed by an inferior one.

    Or, more likely, the liberals have been right all along, and eventually even conservatives have to admit it and go along with it.

  3. Mr Ed says

    I remember the break up of Yugoslavia, the leaders of the various groups quickly agreed on new boarders. Everyone moved to their designated area with just a hand shake and tearful goodbye to old neighbors.

    Far be it for me to call out Mr. Liberal Duke for his hippy ways but a true conservative is happy to be a serf working himself to death for his landed lord. The idea that we all can own property and work for ourselves is just some new age liberal dream.

  4. D. C. Sessions says

    It’s rather gratifying to see someone on the Right embracing the social psychology of right-wing authoritarianism rather than denying it.

    Is there a companion piece on cultivating fear?

  5. Scr... Archivist says

    It is nothing less than a superior culture being subsumed by an inferior one.

    I would argue that Duke has it exactly backwards.

    But when he calls for cultural separation, I have to ask “Isn’t that what we already have?” Much has already been written about the geographical dimension of the U.S. Culture War. You can see it in maps of support for marriage equality, for example. But even then it’s not like Southern states are monolithic.

    http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/marriage-and-couples-rights/public-support-for-marriage-for-same-sex-couples-by-state/

  6. eric says

    Love the logic. “Look at Britian! Look at Sweden! We can avoid their fate and put this gay thing to rest if we were just our own country! Like, um, Britain! Or Sweden!”

    If conservatives in a bunch of different countries keep getting more liberal, why would you ever think that drawing a new national border is going to help you?

  7. Chiroptera says

    Scr… Archivist, #6:

    But it’s not separated enough. Remember they resent the fact that we live in a Constitutional republic and so they cannot do whatever the hell they want, even in the areas they control, because everyone, including people who aren’t them, have rights that must be respected.

  8. D. C. Sessions says

    He lost me at “Conservatives are generally very nice people.”

    True, though. Being very considerate of each other is pretty much a common characteristic of any tightly-knit inbred group.

  9. jnorris says

    Personally, I want the secessionists to start the planning for this. Ignore the fact the Constitution is not going to be amended any time soon to allow secession. But please start researching how the transfer from state to sovereign nation would happen. Address currency, military and other federal property, international relations, postal service, air traffic,and a whole slew of issues.

    I believe it would be fascinating reading.

  10. greg1466 says

    Gee. The lesson I took from the first part is that conservatives tend to not be able to recognize injustice until the larger society beats them over the head with it for a few decades. I also love the irony of a wingnut Christian suggesting that they need to use the most extreme Muslim states as a model for how to deal with groups they disagree with.

  11. says

    First, they secede.
    Then the True Conservatives there secede.
    Then the True Conservatives there secede.
    Then the True Conservatives there secede.
    Then the True Conservatives there secede.
    By the end, the national motto can be “From many, one”.

  12. Wylann says

    In a word, today’s conservatives are generally people who have assimilated into yesterday’s liberals’ culture.

    He’s essentially admitting here that conservatives are always about a generation behind.

    He sees even that as being too progressive. Old ways being subsumed by new, mostly better, ways, is a feature, not a bug.

  13. eric says

    @11 – they should start with deciding who gets to vote in their new nation. That should keep them occupied for a while.

  14. Sastra says

    Oh yes, the end of civilization! And humanity! And dogs and cats living together!

    I like that Ed left off the /blockquote and included his final sentence in the Wingnut rant. It fits very nicely, if not perfectly. Nice people often do own both dogs and cats.

    roggg #2 wrote:

    Would it really be so bad if all the hard-core bigots of the religious right took over, say, Alabama, and all the progressive folk in the state did a 1 for 1 asset swap with them to get out of the state, and it became a foreign country?

    Yes. Yes it would.

    You know why? Here’s one reason. Because ‘hard-core bigots’ are not characters in a book or video game and there is plenty of variation and change within all human groups — especially in changing circumstances. What will eventually happen then is a rigid, cruel totalitarian State where people have the right to do whatever they want with THEIR women and THEIR children and THEIR colored folk and THEIR heretics and THEIR dissidents and THEIR criminals … and it won’t look at all like the monochromatic foreign country of drones you apparently imagine.

    It’s not like you’re the only one making this suggestion, I know. But stop and think. Even when we nonreligious deal with isolated insulated religious cults we’re all still concerned about the abuse which goes on inside. We don’t think “yah, haha that’s what you GET.”

  15. voidhawk says

    “It is nothing less than a superior culture being subsumed by an inferior one.”

    I don’t think those words mean what he thinks they mean. Or does he believe that bronze medalists cheer their superiority over their mere gold medalist rivals?

  16. doublereed says

    Well, considered they seceded previously over black rights, this seems to be perfectly in character, right?

  17. d cwilson says

    What it boils down to is that these are people who are upset they were born a few centuries too late. They would have been perfectly happy living in the days of the Inquisition.

  18. says

    There are various groups in the US that advocate moving to State X, hoping that once enough of their fellows move there they will dominate the political process, and can impose their will on State X. They don’t seem to work very well, as none of them have come near to taking over whichever state they’ve chosen as State X.

    In other words, Duke shouldn’t hold his breath.

  19. whheydt says

    The line I’ve been using for about 40 years now is, “A conservative is a follower of a dead liberal.” I usually follow it up with a comment about rather liking Thomas Jefferson.

    An alternative to seccession would be to suggest that he move to a country that is conservative enough to suit him..Russia and Uganda spring to mind for some reason.

  20. D. C. Sessions says

    What it boils down to is that these are people who are upset they were born a few centuries too late. They would have been perfectly happy living in the days of the Inquisition.

    Have you ever noticed how everyone was a king, queen, etc. in their past lives? When was the last time you heard from someone who, in a past life, was a serf?

    Likewise, these people would have loved Torquemada’s Spain. Because, of course, they would be calling the shots — not the schmucks with a starring role in auto da fe.

  21. says

    In a word, today’s conservatives are generally people who have assimilated into yesterday’s liberals’ culture.

    That’s what I’ve been saying for awhile now. Society inch-worms along to a more progressive/liberal state, with the conservatives merely following behind a ways back.

    The progressives push ahead a little. The new generation of conservatives get a little more used to the liberal stances, as they’re born into that world – maybe not accepting them, but tolerating – whereas the older generation didn’t. The older generation dies off, leaving the slightly-more-liberalized newer conservatives, who can tolerate a little more liberalization, from their slightly-more-liberalized stance.

    Repeat.

  22. dingojack says

    “We can hate what is in front of us, love what is behind us, or both.”

    WHOOP – WHOOP – WHOOP !!!
    BANG !

    Sorry, my gaydar just exploded.

    :) Dingo

  23. dingojack says

    “Well, there is an alternative to assimilation. – Separation.”

    It sounds so much more impressive in the original Afrikaans: apartheid..

    Dingo

  24. says

    “What it boils down to is that these are people who are upset they were born a few centuries too late. They would have been perfectly happy living in the days of the Inquisition.”

    He’s almost certainly a non-Cath-o-lick, so, he woulda been in pretty much the same boat as the joos and mooslims.

    “In other words, Duke shouldn’t hold his breath.”

    Oh, I don’t know, it might be the only way that he would ever turn “blue”.

    “WHOOP – WHOOP – WHOOP !!!
    BANG !

    Sorry, my gaydar just exploded.

    :) Dingo”

    Why? Oh, wait.

    http://us.search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=vmn&type=zg-search.startnow.com-1_0-zg-rp-rp&p=selwyn+duke

  25. matty1 says

    The funny thing about claims like this is that they can already have most of what they want in a liberal society.

    Want to never get an abortion? – you can

    Want to be straight, married and only fuck in approved ways? you can

    Want to never socialise with people of a different race? you can

    Want to go to a church where anyone who isn’t like you gets kicked out? again you guessed it

    Really the only thing they can’t have is imposing their rules on others.

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