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Matt Wykoff, Round 3

My favorite Catholic wingnut, Matt Wykoff, is once again sending me unsolicited emails that are stuff to the brim with the bizarre and the deranged. This may be my favorite claim of all: That the Shroud of Turin is authentic and that “there was no entropy during the formation of the image.” I have no idea what that could possibly mean. He doesn’t either, of course. Here’s the first screed:

1. Just as Geocentrism is scientifically irrefutable : Science demonstrates the Resurrection and Crucifixion of the Almighty God and Lord Jesus Christ and that is the One and Only True God. Easter really is the most scientific thing there is. There is Absolutely No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church see www.vaticancatholic.com the central truths of Christianity – the miraculous Life, Miracles, Death, Crucifixion, and Resurrection of God Lord Jesus Christ are scientifically demonstrated. Science absolutely proves the Life, Crucifixion, Death, and Resurrection of the Our Lord Jesus Christ (the Christian one and not the Protestant one who doesn’t even exist and is maybe perhaps imaginary or just an evil spirit). Both the Spiritual/Sacred and physical/natural sciences prove this. In the post script I’ll deal only with the physical science part of it.

2. You probably have a short attention span. Then read the bolded portions. The world is a hater of Truth such as you are. The anti-Christ media loves running blasphemous programs, as this is their modus operandi. St. John 15:18-20 “If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you. If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember my word that I said to you: The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my word, they will keep yours also.” As you should know, carbon dating is quackery but the world still rides along with the already invalidated fiction of the 1988 Shroud of Turin carbon dating. In 2008 Aug. 15th the Los Alamos National Laboratory released its findings that scientifically proved and confirmed that the material used for the radiocarbon dating of the Shroud in 1988 was not from the Shroud’s fabric. The Shroud is made of linen, but the samples used in the 1988 carbon dating were composed of cotton! The Los Alamos National Laboratory’s work confirms the research published in Thermochimica Acta (Jan. 2005) by the late Raymond Rogers: an atheist chemist who had studied actual C-14 samples and concluded the sample was not part of the original cloth. Months before the Los Alamos Lab came out with the findings, interestingly in March 2008 Christopher Ramsey the head of the Oxford Radiocarbon unit Accelerator which participated in the 1988 Carbon 14 dating, said the now discredited 1988 carbon dating was wrong and that further research is certainly needed by experts to ascertain the history of the Shroud. Even before the Los Alamos National Laboratory came out with its scientific findings, many experts were already proving how the 1988 dating was totally worthless and a fraud. Many scientists and experts have identified the Fold Axis and the Zero Thread – the point at which the weaving pattern turns in a different direction- of the 1988 carbon 14 samples. It is a coordinate system that allows scientists to compare the pieces like finger prints! The 1988 samples are NOT identical to the Shroud’s coordinate system. When the Shroud pieces were being cut, the process was videotaped and it took 8 hours, but the cameras were then turned off when the Shroud pieces were taken to another room and “put in 3 different containers” 1 for each lab. Experts and scientists point out manipulations have taken place.

3. The STURP Team (The Shroud of Turin Research Project) said that the body had to be weightless during the formation of the image and that there was no entropy during the formation of the image. Nobel Prize winning physicist Dame Isabel Piczek also said that physics prove that the body was floating between the top and bottom part of the 2 sides of the Shroud when the intense burst and flash of the light of the Resurrection occurred. Had this hovering of the body not occurred, the image would have appeared distorted since there was hard rock at the bottom the body was laying on moments before the unprecedented event of the Resurrection. Also the Holy Shroud is a 2 dimensional object encoded with 3 dimensional information! This is physically impossible and is miraculous. It is absolutely impossible scientifically for anybody or any technology to put 3 dimensional information in a 2 dimensional object! The Shroud has not been and cannot be reproduced. The fact that there is 3D info in a 2D artifact is absolutely incredible and irreplicable. We are dealing with spiritual realities here. Surely no human person can stop entropy in order to form the image. None of the unique characteristics of the Shroud can be replicated. Members of the STURP team, in particular, agreed that the image on the Shroud is of a man who had been subjected to a savage scourging before being Crucified, with unusual head wounds wearing the Crown of Thorns, consistent with Gospel accounts of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. You really need to do more research instead of believing everything pagan media tells you. The most elite scientists on the planet went to the Church begging for the Shroud of Turin. It is miraculous and has healed many people from terminal illnesses and has caused many miracles. These elite scientists on earth (STURP) spent over 150,000 man hours studying the Shroud with the most advanced technology in science today.

4. The Shroud of Turin proves that the Majesty and Ineffeble works of God are awe inspiring. There is 3 dimensional information on a 2 dimensional object. This is physically impossible, and is therefore a miracle on the Holy Shroud. 3 dimensional information was discovered where it couldn’t possibly exist. Scientists have said it is as if they are looking at something from another reality. The top scientists of the world involved in diverse fields of study say the forming of the image was a direct result of the Resurrection. It has been called a supernatural phenomenon. They said that the forming of the image on the Shroud had to occur in a short period of time; with characteristics of a corona discharge similar to kirlian photography or lightning that defies our current understanding. They said it’s like every pore of the body suddenly fired a miniature laser beam for a split second of time, thus marking the Shroud. The physics proving how the image came on the Shroud, and also why it is a negative image, imply that it is because of an occurrence called ‘a true event horizon’. The light was of such magnitude that it was unbounded – approaching infinity. And it happened in such a small space of time – less than the smallest fraction of a mili-second – that it is almost inconceivable. The shadowy faint figure on the cloth is a photographically negative image (meaning that the lights and darks are reversed from what we would normally see with our eyes), however, when in 1898 Secunda Pia took a photo with the camera, the figure on the Shroud went from a positive image to a negative image on his camera glass plates. It was the first time that the likeness could be seen in full majestic detail.

5. The nails were driven through his hands in a slanted-slope like direction below the mid center of the palm of the hands, coming out the other side of the hands. Experts dealing with anatomy said that would be an extremely firm place that would hold several hundred pounds; and added that the Shroud shows that the blood poured onto the wrist areas from the back of the hand, and this is exactly what would happen with nails driven through that firm place of the palms of the hands.

6. Physicists say it is as if the body was suspended in the air, in the middle of the cloth, because if the body lay on the Shroud while the image was formed, the image would have appeared very disfigured and unintelligible. For the body had been lying on a rock and distortion would have been unavoidable. There was a powerful light that happened during the Resurrection, for on the Holy Shroud, internal structures of the body can be seen, such as the skeletal structure and teeth, roots, and bone, similar to what x-rays show, but better (and each time they fine tune their zooming in with the VP-8 Image Analyzer the more they find and see and discover). They find very unique formations and information in the different depths of the Shroud image, and slight variations in focusing distance brought that information out. Also on the Shroud is the phrase ‘Jesus of Nazareth King of the Judeans’ in 4 different languages; Greek, Latin, Aramaic, and Hebrew found by a Vatican secret archives historian. Also, in 1989, scholars found a portion of the phrase the ‘The King of the Judeans’ in Hebrew on the Shroud. In Jesus Christ’s earthly days, it was common to write documents in several languages. The Shroud has the full phrase in one line ‘Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Judeans’; in 4 different languages at least. Also, in 1978 a Latin professor noticed Aramaic writing on the Shroud.

7. It is a record of the literal Resurrection of the Our Lord Jesus Christ the most astonishing object that is in existence – most intensely studied. It is total 2000% scientific proof of the Resurrection: but it goes still higher and that is the higher science the Sacred Science called Christianity. This is a Great Gift left directly by Jesus Christ; it announces that great mystery of a love that could not be greater. The Shroud is a scientific and physical record of the Resurrection. There is a plaque around His neck and it says Aba- which means Father. It makes a lot of sense because Christ called himself the Son of God, the Son of the Father. The Shroud is a miraculous sign, a miraculous proof of Our Lord Jesus Christ’s life, Crucifixion, and His Resurrection. Ratioanl humanity is thankful so much of the prodigious miracles and miraculous Charity and Love of the Our Lord Jesus Christ- in leaving behind as a loving gift to us His artifacts and linen demonstrating His Deity, Resurrection, and Crucifixion scientifically exceeding magnitude. The natural heavenly bodies are moved by Him from place to place. The planets, the moon, and the sun don’t have intelligence: so somebody has to move them that has intelligence and this is Him. And He makes sure the earth stays in its place and not spinning on itself 1000 miles per hour while at the same time traveling for some reason at 67,000 + miles per hour towards the sun – according to present day doctrinarisms. God works marvelously even on the most intricately tiny details of Creation with His mind and It is stunning. He makes sure that the sun and the moon do their service and give us their light. All the above is only the tip of the iceberg.

Unable to resist poking a stick at the raging bear, I replied:

Is there some reason why you would think I’d be interested in your lunatic ranting and raving? I mean, other than because it’s really fucking entertaining?

And that led to screed #2:

Science is not a rant . What your response shows is that you are prejudicial and a science -hater. You realize this. You were decimated. You had no semblance of a response that Geocentrism is scientifically demonstrated. All you do is venture to nonsensical myths instead of facing the science. Hubble was one of the discoverers of redshift. He detected redshift isotropically distributed all around us. He Said (The Observational Approach to Cosmology): “…Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth…This hypothesis cannot be disproved, but it is unwelcome and would only be accepted as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore we disregard this possibility…. the unwelcome position of a favored location must be avoided at all costs…. such a favored position is intolerable…Therefore, in order to restore homogeneity, and to escape the horror of a unique position…must be compensated by spatial curvature. There seems to be no other escape.”

Yes you are thoroughly decimated without a semblance of a response. What the Hubble quote implies is that rejecting general relativity (which allowed the “spatial curvature” and expansion myths) and redshift as expansion leads to an earth in a “unique position” (i.e., “centrally located”). An earth in a “unique position” is a “horror”, “intolerable”, etc., though “the hypothesis [of a unique position] cannot be disproved” (Davies and Hawking and Hubble admit) and in fact “appears consistent with our astronomical observations” (Davies). So, rather than deal with an observationally (and also dynamically) viable option, so-called ‘objective Pagan “science” chooses to “disregard this possibility”. By the way: Hubble, Davies, and Hawking are atheists.

What does Stephen Hawking say in his book ‘Brief History of Time’ concerning the homogeneity of the universe (homogeneity is absolute scientific fact debunking the big bang)? “…all this evidence that the universe looks the same whichever direction we look in might seem to suggest there is something special about our place in the universe. In particular, it might seem that if we observe all other galaxies to be moving away from us, then we must be at the center of the universe.”He does provide a desperate alternative view, though:“There is, however, an alternate explanation: the universe might look the same in every direction as seen from any other galaxy, too. This, as we have seen, was Friedmann’s second assumption. We have no scientific evidence for, or against, this assumption. We believe it only on grounds of modesty: it would be most remarkable if the universe looked the same in every direction around us, but not around other points in the universe.”

Let us continue with the undeniable science. Now concerning the nature of redshift- there is a leading assumption about the so called expansion of the universe and then there is the scientific gravitational interpretation. The mythical big bang model of course chooses the expansion myth. Interestingly a top evolutionist cosmologist named George Ellis believes in Geocentrism and produced the science and mathematics to back up his beliefs. Paul Davies editor of Nature magazine commented on the science: “These redshifts are due, of course, to matter flying away from us under the impetus of the Big Bang. But redshifts can also arise from the gravitational attraction of mass. If the Earth were at the center of the universe, the attraction of the surrounding mass of stars would also produce redshifts wherever we looked! The argument advanced by George Ellis in this article is more complex than this, but his basic thrust is to put man back into a favored position in the cosmos. His new theory seems quite consistent with our astronomical observations, even though it clashes with the thought that we are godless and making it on our own.” Interstingly enough, what do you think the title of Paul Davie’s piece regarding George Ellis’ model was? Interesting New Interpertation of Redshifts?No. Unique New Model Supports Earth’s Centrality? No. It was titled:Cosmic Heresy? (Nature, 273:336, 1978)

When Marcus Chown investigated the apparent alignement of the CMB and our ecliptic (which is absolute scientific proof of Geocentrism) what did he title his article? CMB aligned with Earth? No. Apparent Correlation of CMB and Solar System? No. He called it: Axis of Evil Warps Cosmic Background, (New Scientist, October 22, 2005)

You cannot address the science because it is irrefutable. The prominent Pagan atheist “scientists” I cited agree with what I say – obviously since I’m quoting them admitting that the scientific facts point to Geocentrism. I quote your own Pagan atheists for your own sake- not because I need them to prove a point.

Edwin Hubble – after seeing redshifts moving away from the earth everywhere he looked (which absolutely scientifically demonstrates Geocentrism) – he emotionally said in his book entitled ‘The Observational Approach to Cosmology’: “…Such a condition would imply that we occupy a unique position in the universe, analogous, in a sense, to the ancient conception of a central Earth…This hypothesis cannot be disproved, but it is unwelcome and would only be accepted as a last resort in order to save the phenomena. Therefore we disregard this possibility…. the unwelcome position of a favored location must be avoided at all costs…. such a favored position is intolerable…Therefore, in order to restore homogeneity, and to escape the horror of a unique position…must be compensated by spatial curvature. There seems to be no other escape.” The Pagan Edwin Hubble – after whom the famed Hubble Telescope was named after – desperately runs away from the science and files to the myth of relativity (special curvature etc) which by the way is debunked by science. Every experiment ever designed to detect the motion of the earth has failed to detect earth’s “motion”. So much so that this failure has become the bedrock of relativity mythology. He also admitted Geocentrism cannot be disproved: as a result of his discovery of redshifts moving away from the earth in every direction.

You reject all science because of your atheist fantasies. The Pagan “scientists” are up against science itself and are quite frankly afraid of its many biblical ramifications. Many attempts were made to prove that heliocentricity was true and geocentricity was false -right up until the early 1900′s. All such attempts were unsuccessful. The most well-known of these is the Michelson-Morley experiment which was designed to measure the change in the speed of light, due to the assumed motion of the earth through space – when measured in different directions on the earth’s surface. The failure of this experiment to detect any motion of the earth played an important role in the acceptance of Einstein’s myth of special relativity in order to explain away the empirical results of the science. It is totally hilarious that Edwin Hubble and all other Pagans can’t accept science.

Every experiment designed to measure the speed of the earth through space has always returned a speed of zero just as the Bible claimed all along. Only prejudicial minds reject scientific facts. Foucault’s pendulum only detected the relative motion of the universe spinning around the earth. Its plane of oscillation revolves every 24 hours – showing the rotation of the universe.

And screed #3:

You are absolutely decimated. Geocentrism is absolutely scientifically proven. You can refute nothing. COBE, WMAP and Planck showed that if we draw lines that connect all these warm and cold spots of the CMB in the universe (as if you were playing Connect the Dots) those lines would point like an arrow from the edge of the universe directly to the Earth. It is known in the Pagan “scientific” literature today as “The Axis of Evil.” Why evil? Because today’s Pagan “scientists” have staked their careers on the idea that the universe is Copernican: that we cannot tell one place from another place in the universe because it is just one big homogeneous mass. As you may know Copernicus took the Earth out of its central place in the universe and set the stage for Carl Sagan to put it out in the remote recesses of space -lost among the stars. So -if they find evidence that the universe is not homogeneous: it destroys the so called “Copernican Principle” upon which modern Pagan cosmology is based and thus it is “evil” from their perspective. Remember Marcus Chown and Kate Lane discovered the alignment of the CMB and our ecliptic (which is absolute scientific evidence of Geocentrism) and they emotionally titled their article concerning this amazing discovery as: Axis of Evil Warps Cosmic Background, (New Scientist, October 22, 2005). They got it from George Bush when he invaded Iraq in 2004 and labeled a number of Middle Eastern countries on his hit-list targeted for destruction as “the axis of evil.”

On March 21, 2013 the European Space Agency and NASA finally released the data from the Planck probe they sent up in the sky in 2009. You can tell by the title of the article (“Planck Reveals an Almost Perfect Universe”) that ESA is playing a shell game (http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Planck/Planck_reveals_an_almost_perfect_Universe). The operative word in the title is “Almost.” As we know when one plays games the only time “almost” becomes significant is in the game of horseshoes. But if you “almost” hit a homerun in baseball or “almost” get a touchdown in football or “almost” get a basket in basketball you don’t get any points and your effort is just as good as if you didn’t even make an attempt. Well the same is true with the Planck probe since we cannot play horseshoes with the data from the CMB (cosmic microwave background radiation). The Planck probe data is just as far away from confirming the big bang myth as a missed pass in the end zone is from scoring a touchdown. As a result the score is now: CMB 21 and ESA/NASA 0. The CMB scored a touchdown with COBE in 1989, WMAP in 2001 and now Planck in 2013. What did COBE, WMAP and now Planck show us? Astounding as it may seem the data reveals the universe is non-Copernican (non-heliocentric) – that is it is not homogeneous as predicted by the big bang myth. There are warm and cool spots all over the universe which means the universe is defined-with special locations and directions. Analogously, it is like the warm and cool spots in our ocean which define and localize specific regions of the Earth. In fact, one can tell precisely where he is on the Earth just by comparing and contrasting the warm and cool spots in the oceans.

You are being decimated. You cannot respond to anything because you know science is irrefutable. Interestingly the NASA/ESA says the following concerning the Planck Probe http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23301-planck-shows-almost-perfect-cosmos–plus-axis-of-evil.html The article states: “Cosmologists can’t pack up and go home just yet though, as Planck’s map has also confirmed the presence of a mysterious alignment of the universe. The “axis of evil” was identified by Planck’s predecessor, NASA’s Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP). The pattern of hot and cold variations in the CMB should be randomly distributed – and they are when comparing small patches of the universe. At larger scales, however, Planck reveals that one half of the universe has bigger variations than the other. Planck’s detectors are over 10 times more sensitive and have about 2.5 times the angular resolution of WMAP’s, giving cosmologists a much better look at this alignment. “We can be extremely confident that these anomalies are not caused by galactic emissions and not caused by instrumental effects, because our two instruments see very similar features,” said Efstathiou.”

I recognize that you are frustrated after having been decimated by science time and time again and also because you have the utter inability to refute anything. You are disquieted because you are being repeatedly refuted and you know you are lying to yourself. You are a ‘clueless idiot’. You realize you are living a fantasy and that you have been deceived for half a millennium by Pagan “scientists” concerning cosmology and science. But of course NASA and ESA are not about to admit the astounding implications of the Planck probe. You won’t find any headlines coming from ESA saying that the Planck probe has finally destroyed the “Copernican Principle.” What you will find is that they will attribute the data that doesn’t fit the big bang myth into euphemistic categories such as: “One of the most surprising findings is that the fluctuations in the CMB temperatures at large angular scales do not match those predicted by the standard model” and “Another is an asymmetry in the average temperatures on opposite hemispheres of the sky. This runs counter to the prediction made by the standard model that the Universe should be broadly similar in any direction we look” and “We see an almost perfect fit to the standard model of cosmology, but with intriguing features that force us to rethink some of our basic assumptions,” You will see these sentences in the article written by ESA and NASA. In other words they aren’t about to admit their cherished mythical Copernican universe has been destroyed by a simple satellite weighing a few hundred pounds. Take good note of the above sentences from ESA and NASA that I underlined.

And screed #4:

Foucault pendulum offers no proof for heliocentrism; rather-, it only proves how presumptuous modern paganism has been for the last few hundred years. The same goes for the appeal to the Coriolis force or the oblateness of the Earth as proofs of the Earth’s rotation. The only fact these particular phenomena prove is that there is a force causing their effect- not that a rotation of the Earth is the force. The logical, not to mention scientifically consisten-, point out that the combined forces of the universe which rotate around the Earth are causing the plane of the pendulum to rotate around an immobile Earth. In other word-, in the geocentric model the movement of the pendulum is not an” illusion” it really moves. According to Einstei, there is no difference between the two models. Ernst Mach -from whom Einstein developed many of his insight -, stated much the same. He writes: “Obviously, it doesn’t matter if we think of the Earth as turning round on its axis, or at rest while the fixed stars revolve round it. Geometrically these are exactly the same case of a relative rotation of the Earth and the fixed stars with respect to one another. But if we think of the Earth at rest and the fixed stars revolving round it, there is no flattening of the Earth, no Foucault’s experiment, and so on…” (As cited in William G. V. Rosser’s, An Introduction to the Theory of Relativity, London, Butterworths, 1964, p. 454, citing Dennis Sciama’s, The Unity of the Universe, New York, Anchor Books, 1959.)Since the stars and the universe are “propelling” the pendulum: then it is proof of rotation- because in the geocentric system (a geostationary one) the stars “rotate” around the earth once per day. The Foucault Pendulum cannot distinguish between rotation of the earth and rotation of the stars (ala Mach’s Principle).

Prominent physicists and scientists (such as Gerardus D. Bouw, Ph.D. and Ronald R. Hatch etc) have expounded upon the undeniable science of geocentrism. The earth is around 6000 years old. Evolutionism is a myth debunked by science and Scripture and also by the Magisterium.

You do not use “the scientific process.” The scientific method is the scientific process and it was invented by Christianity. Even Kitty Fergusson a scientist who fawns all over Stephen Hawking and demonstrates grave misunderstandings about cosmology and heliocentrist myth at least correctly summarized ‘the scientific method’ in her book The Fire in the Equation despite her secularism. The two basic principles of the scientific method:

1.“All our theory, ideas, preconceptions, instincts, and prejudices about how things logically ought to be, how they in all fairness ought to be, or how we would prefer them to be, must be tested against external reality—what they really are. How do we determine what they really are? Through direct experience of the universe itself. […]

2. The testing, the experience, has to be public, repeatable—in the public domain. If the results are derived only once, if the experience is that of only one person and isn’t available to others who attempt the same test or observation under approximately the same conditions, science must reject the findings as invalid—not necessarily false, but useless. One-time, private experience is not acceptable.” (Kitty Ferguson, The Fire in the Equations, p. 38.)

Now the scientific method deals with fact and not heliocentrist mythology. It deals with that which is demonstrable, testable, observable, and repeatable. There is no scientific proof of heliocentrism. Pagans cannot produce any such evidence because understandably they have the utter inability to do so since heliocentrism is myth. That is why you said you have no interest in science. The Michelson Morley experiment (MMX) and related experiments of the late 19th and early 20th centuries showed prima facie evidence that the Earth wasn’t moving around the sun – and this continued to be the case with every repeat of an MMX-type experiment from 1881 to 1932 when the last one was done. That is science. That is irrefutable. I have also presented to you your leading Pagan cosmological writers and they soundly debunk your own understandings about cosmology and they also reveal how devastated they were by the MMX experiments. That is why the Pagan Stephen Hawking admitted Einstein’s myth of relativity turned physics upside down and reinvented it as a result of his mythological system. Also note how your own leading Pagan cosmologists admit that heliocentrist myth is not a scientific fact and they even attempt to put it on the same level with Geocentrism which is actually scientifically proven. Geocentrism is the scientific fact that the earth is at the center of the universe and immobile. Meaning for instance that it does not tilt on its axis spinning 2000 miles per hour while for some reason barreling through space around the sun at 67,000+ miles per hour. Contrary to your belief the earth does not actually move in space. It is stationary as the MMX experiments have demonstrated. Also many in the “scientific community” reject heliocentrism on scientific grounds including evolutionists while others hold the view it is not scientifically proven (such as the leading cosmologist in the Pagan world after Einstein- Stephen Hawking). I cited for you the evolutionist physicist and scientist George F.R. Ellis. He believes in Geocentrism. The atheist Paul C. W. Davies the editor of the leading scientific journal Nature published George’s findings and moreover admitted “His new theory seems quite consistent with our astronomical observations, even though it clashes with the thought that we are godless and making it on our own.” (P.C.W. Davies, “Cosmic Heresy?” Nature, 273:336, 1978. In the same article Davies admits: “…as we see only redshifts whichever direction we look in the sky, the only way in which this could be consistent with a gravitational explanation is if the Earth is situated at the center of an inhomogeneous Universe.” By the standards of the science (the scientific method) the MMX experiments are scientific facts demonstrating a stationary earth at the center of the universe. Also according to the scientific method the “theory” of relativity and special relativity are NOT science. However I note that many pagans such as yourself love to subordinate science to “theory” when things just do not go their way. Anyways relativity is mythology.

PS. I wrote the following letter to Kitty Fergusson:

Ferguson:

In your book Measuring the Universe which you published in the year 1999 AD you promote the popular discredited myth which asserts Ptolemy’s model could not account for the phases of Venus. You do this mainly on pages 92-93. This you must needs retract and reevaluate your cosmological paradigm. Though there exist certain versions of Ptolemy’s system which appear to show its inability to account for Venus’ phases the truth of the matter is these versions no more deny the basic model of Ptolemaic Geocentrism than the errors in Copernicus’ original model – which were based on circles and epicyclets – would discount heliocentrism prior to Kepler’s corrections by his use of ellipses. On page 93 of your book you alert readers your diagrams do not reflect the actual distances and orbits. You fail to acknowledge that without accurate scales the diagrams prove nothing except a bias against Ptolemy. Ptolemy had the same problem but inadvertent. He did not know the actual distances to the sun and the planets or moon and consequently Venus suffers the most form this lack of knowledge since its epicycle is placed between the sun and the Earth rather than outside the sun. Ptolemy’s model was neither absolute in its distances nor ever adjusted to make it correct. If Ptolemy’s model had been adjusted it would have shown the most accuracy. Before Kepler’s improvements to the heliocentric model – Copernicus’ system was gravely inaccurate and unproportional geometrically and mathematically despite the fact that Copernicus used more epicycles than Ptolemy. As Copernicus’ model was improved – so were the results of calculations to track the orbits of the planets. Yet the same kind of corrections could have been made to the Ptolemaic model to improve its accuracy – including corrections to account for the phases of Venus. The model itself did not need to be scrapped. The distance to the moon and the phases of Venus could have been made as prominent and precise as they appear in the improved Keplerian model if instead of Ptolemy’s circles: 1. The planetary orbits are made into elliptical paths around the sun 2. The suns’ orbit around the Earth is made a deferent and the epicycle’s radius is made equal to the actual scalar distance between the sun and planet 3. The sun’s motion is placed in one epicycle and the planets’ epicycles are centered on the sun 4. The Earth is lined up with respect to the stars rather than with respect to the sun. All four solutions would make the paths cycloidal with respect to the Earth and all will account for the phases of Venus. Option 3 is essentially the model proposed by Tycho Brahe.

Astronomers and historians who should know better ignorantly persist in claiming that Galileo’s discovery that Venus exhibits moon-like phases disproved the Ptolemaic model. All that Galileo’s observations actually meant insofar as the Ptolemaic model was concerned was that the radii of the epicycles were much larger than had previously been suspected – and all that Kepler’s elliptical orbits meant to the Ptolemaic model was that two of the epicycles could be combined into one ellipse. The observations of the phases of the planets visible through the telescope especially in the case of Venus were still compatible with what one might call the ‘essential’ Ptolemaic system for it left 6 free parameters that had to be fixed by guesswork. No violence was done to the essentials of the Ptolemaic system by fixing these in such a way that the deferents of Mercury and Venus were taken equal to the earth-sun distance and the deferents of the superior planets to their actual distances from the sun. This choice has the consequence that the geometrical arrangement of the Copernican system when treated as in the zero-eccentricity approximation is exactly reproduced – the only difference being that in one system the earth is at rest and in the other the sun. This in fact is the system which Tycho Brahe proposed. In regard to astronomical observations the Tychonic system which is a special case of the Ptolemaic one – is kinematically identical to Copernicus’s except in its relation to the distant stars. In other words: the phases of Venus are no proof for the heliocentric myth. Stop reading Stephen Hawking’s mythologies for he misrepresents the Church and history due to his inherent secularist bias.

There is absolutely No Salvation Outside the Church see www.vaticancatholic.com

And screed #5, which is my favorite. It’s all about how “Christian armies” destroyed the United States and ended the “heresy” of “religious freedom.”

Let me tell you something about Christian armies ( www.vaticancatholic.com). The Catholic Church defeated the united states in a massive victory- giving the America a huge defeat. Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical, TAMETSI FUTURA PROSPICIENTIBUS #13, Nov. 23rd 1900: “The world has heard enough of the so-called “rights of man.” Let it hear something of the rights of God.” Yes the world might have heard a little something of the rights of God during the Spanish-Civil War from 1936-1939 in which 53 nations including the United States, Great Britain, and Soviet Russia invaded Catholic Spain wishing to overthrow the government which they characterized as “authoritarian” all because it was Catholic – and sent their soldiers to fight against the Christian order in Spain – in order to establish Communism. If that wasn’t enough: numerous Communist and Anarchist organizations (funded and armed by the West and Soviets) within Spain- conspired against the State. The brutal murders and tortures of Nuns, Priests, Bishops etc., defy almost all belief. Monks took up arms – fighting for their God. Italy which was composed of mostly Catholics: and also German controlled territory (it contained a sizable portion of Catholics) assisted Catholic Spain. Mexico assisted Catholic Spain by sending supplies and medical aid. Spain brought it the Faith hundreds of years back. Catholic Action was and is a really beautiful thing.

The Divine goodness saw it fit to give Catholics the victory. You don’t hear much about how Catholic Spain defeated 53 other nations that invaded it: and also all the conspiratorial organizations within it – against all odds. I believe this is a big deal in history. The International Brigades were units of soldiers from all over the world that invaded Spain to attack Catholics and overthrow the government. The American Lincoln Brigade was the pathetic unit sent by the U.S. When Vatican II occurred, that’s when the Communists [and Freemasonry] gained the victory over Spain. Spain got rid of its Catholic Constitution because Vatican II taught this violated the heresy of ‘religious freedom.’

Then he turned his attention to American history with screed #6:

n case you did not know: Thomas Jefferson was america’s 3rd president. He was notorious for using his young female slaves for copulation. He famously had a passionate love affair with his slave girl aged 14 who bore him 6 children. Your president was a pederast. The evidence indicates he began raping his slave girl Sarah Hemings at age 9. Your president was a pedophile. Jefferson had multiple invalid “marriages” and was a frequent adulterer. He took advantage of his young vulnerable slave girls.

The Catholic Church founded innumerable Religious Orders of Monks and Nuns who bound themselves to a most cruel oath: of giving themselves up for slavery in exchange for another slave – so that the slave can be freed. These Monks and Nuns approached slave owners and pleaded with them: ‘please free a slave, and I’ll take he’s place.’ Tell me what false religions do you know that have ever done something like this? What pagans have ever approached a slave-owning pagan and told the slave-owner to take them as a slave in exchange for the freedom of another slave? None. The false religions have never done anything like this. No one compares or can compare to the moral principle and glories of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church went to glorious extremes to eliminate slavery. The founding fathers certainly never did something of the like. Indeed the author of the declaration of independence – Jefferson Thomas – was a slave-holder. He was a serial rapist of his women slaves. He raped his female slaves and in fact is famous for having impregnated one of them. This is the same man who wrote the declaration of independence which said all men were created equal. That same document called Africans sub-human. The slave whom Thomas Jefferson impregnated was Sally Hemings with whom he fathered several children. Thomas Jefferson was an adulterer and rapist of innocent, vulnerable women of child bearing age. Thomas Jefferson (a Freemason and Illuminist) had 6 children with vulnerable Sally Hemings -one of his many women slaves. All of the men who were created equal were the “men” as defined in those times. Subsequently many of them were the ‘men’ in charge” and the ‘owners.”Men” did not include the Irishman, the Italian man, the Indian male, Asiatics, and Africans. For more information see www.vaticancatholic.com the youtube channel has more video views than all the vatican youtube channels combined in all the various languages – the www.vaticancatholic.com has the most views than any other youtube channel purporting to be Catholic.

Learn your history: Pagan americans. The truth is whatever type of President he was – Jefferson was a hypocrite like thousands of Pagan men at that time and some in our time who used Sally Hemings and helpless African women for their own selfish and egotistical purposes. What do you expect from persons who kept people as property? When he and his ilk said ‘all men are created equal’ Jefferson did not mean all humans: he meant only favored ethnic groups.

And finally, screed #7:

According to the famous web-traffic ranker Alexa.com, (mostholyfamilymonastery.com) is the highest-ranked traditional Catholic website in the world. Note that it’s not just the highest-ranked sedevacantist website in the world (which is true by far), but mostholyfamilymonastery.com (or vaticancatholic.com) has the highest ranking of all ‘traditional Catholic’ websites in the world.

The united states has a well known history of discrimination and racism towards Africans. The Church was involved in the civil rights struggles for the African. It was at the forefront of bringing and working for their freedoms. Much violence was perpetrated against the Africans by your america especially in Alabama. Many organizations were founded by the Church to combat this such as the Catholic Interracial Council which held freedom marches and rallies led by Nuns at the forefront with Bishops and Priests behind them with the Africans – most of whom were non-Catholics. They held posters and they wear stating that Africans are created in the image and likeness of God etc. The non-Catholic Africans also enthusiastically stated on their posters and verbally ‘I am created in the image and likeness of God’ right behind the Nuns and Clergy. Also many Catholic lay people joined in on the rallies. It is not often one hears of nuns leaving their Convents to march on the streets leading huge rallies for the freedom of the oppressed. The Catholic Church held many public Masses and prayers to stop the violence happening in America especially Alabama and Mississippi against the Africans. Even throughout the 1960s in their Cathedrals Archbishops assured Africans in their congregations of constant and continuing cooperation in their struggle to secure for their fellow citizens the full and complete exercise of their human and civil rights. The Church through its sheer spiritual force and moral might eliminated overt discrimination and violence against Africans and relegated such acts as inhuman. See www.vaticancatholic.com

Oh wait, here comes another one:

Christian armies are amazing. No wonder you have interest in “faith based” military operations. No wonder you want to know more about them. They whipped the pants off of the united states, Jews, England, and Soviet Russia and 50 other nations during the Spanish Civil War. They also whipped the pants off the of the united states during the Mexican revolutionary war. Your America sent armies down there and also weapons, aircraft, artillery, and machine guns and also raped 14 year old Mexican Catholic females who were coming out of catechism classes.

You seem to be laughing at the idea of Christian armies because you conceive of them as tiny. Almighty God Lord Jesus Christ always helps His tiny armies march forth in triumph. He takes no account of numbers. That is why in the Old Testament He used 300 men with Gideon leading: to defeat over 15,000 men of the army of Midianites (see Judges chapter 7). The name Gideon means “Destroyer” or “Mighty Warrior.” Gideon then disemboweled his daughter because he had made a vow that should he be granted victory he will disembowel whoever he sees coming to great him first- out of his house. God Lord Jesus Christ frequently used small armies to win his battles.

It is amazing how Cortez and his men – who amounted to only 508 people at the start (as humanist historian Richard Lee Marks says in his book ‘Cortes’ on page 41)– and they wound up overthrowing the Aztec empire – which encompassed some 15 million people. When you think about that by itself- it’s a miracle. Now it’s certainly true that as Cortes and his men advanced into the areas approaching Mexico- they gained many Indian allies who were indispensable in what transpired later on- but the fact of the matter is that 508 men got off the boat in the New World and wound up overthrowing this empire of 15 million. That’s an obvious sign of Divine Providence assisting this Catholic army. The Aztec’s diabolical empire of human sacrifice was overthrown by the Christian army of Spain. It was a clash of 2 alien civilizations. The Conquistadors showed them what’s up.

Before the Aztec empire was overthrown- many other independent territories had to be defeated on the way. The 40,000 man army of the Tlaxcalans was defeated by 500 men. None of Cortes’ men died but several were injured mortally. The atheist Richard Lee Marks calls it a miracle. That is interesting. He also said that their streak of luck was so incredible- that how could they not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ after the victories. On their way to the Aztec empire the army shrank to 400 men due to deaths and they had to face Montezuma’s vast armies. It then shrank to 300 men. The odds against Hernan Cortes defeating the Aztec empire were 10,000 to 1.

The brutality of the american empire and its sickening abortions must be combated by the Christian army.

The Inca Empire – the largest empire in the new world and bigger than the Aztec empire – was conquered by a Christian army that started out with a number of 168 Spanish men. So quit laughing about our tiny numbers. We whip the pants off of you. This reminds us that the God of Creation is the God of history. Eventually less than 60 men conquered the Inca Empire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HtkjJycc7A this is a 49 minute video about the Crusades and whether they were justified. Humanist sources and historians are used and they make interesting admissions concerning the miraculous nature of the victories.

You scared?

Comments

  1. Reginald Selkirk says

    Just as Geocentrism is scientifically irrefutable…

    I didn’t find it necessary to read any further than that.

  2. says

    How much will he pay me if I read that?

    I expect high-end lawyer rates!!

    btw (for free too!) he’s obviously confusing entropy with enthalpy. it’s easy to do…

  3. dean says

    You are absolutely decimated

    So you are 9/10 of the man you used to be? ‘Tis but a flesh wound. (you probably lost the 1/10 by laughing at him.)

  4. Michael Heath says

    Were all these replies just to you Ed? If so, I wonder if Mr. Wykoff wrote them all out or copied and pasted from previous rants he’s kept. If the former, this guy really needs medical care. Actually that’s probably true either way.

  5. dmcclean says

    Ahh yes, redshifts are real, and so the earth is the fixed center of the universe, and so the fixed stars revolve around us at… let’s see here… carry the eight … 13 billion light years * 2 pi / 23 hours 56 minutes = 9 * 10^21 m/s = 3 * 10^13 c.

    It all makes so much sense now. Praise the lord.

    When this guy gives me a ship that can take me to some of the farthest known galaxies in 4 hours, I will be impressed enough to look at what some lunatic acquaintance of his — who somehow won the Nobel Prize without the Google ever having heard of it — has to say about the shroud of Turin.

  6. raven says

    I’m not reading much of that.

    FWIW, the Shroud of Turin was shown to be a medieval manufactured item.

    Of course, a few of the faithful just started making up their own data. Their cult even has a name, they are called Shroudies.

  7. colnago80 says

    A personnel note here. The C 14 experiment was carried out by a team headed by a nuclear physicist named Harry Gove. A million years ago, while a graduate student, I took a course in EM from Prof. Gove. I knew Prof. Gove, Wykoff ain’t no Harry Gove.

  8. imrryr says

    Italy which was composed of mostly Catholics: and also German controlled territory (it contained a sizable portion of Catholics) assisted Catholic Spain. Mexico assisted Catholic Spain by sending supplies and medical aid. Spain brought it the Faith hundreds of years back. Catholic Action was and is a really beautiful thing.

    The citizens of Guernica would likely disagree.

  9. colnago80 says

    We might ask Wykoff what happened to the Catholic armies of Tilly and von Wallenstein at the battles of Breitenfeld and Lützen, where they were defeated by the Protestant King of Sweden, Gustavus Adolphus.

  10. eric says

    I liked this part:

    Also the Holy Shroud is a 2 dimensional object encoded with 3 dimensional information! This is physically impossible and is miraculous. It is absolutely impossible scientifically for anybody or any technology to put 3 dimensional information in a 2 dimensional object!

    Anyone keeping up with cosmology for the past 20-30 years should get a good belly laugh out of that. (And if you haven’t, no biggie, google Leonard Susskind or the holographic principle.)

    This may be my favorite claim of all: That the Shroud of Turin is authentic and that “there was no entropy during the formation of the image.” I have no idea what that could possibly mean.

    My guess is that it was some other shroud defender’s argument against the problem of it being dated to the mideval period (“it really is old…it just never decayed!”) and Wykoff garbled it.

  11. sigurd jorsalfar says

    Science has totally 2000% proven that scientifically impossible things are totally 2000% possible!

    Science has totally 2000% proven that everything in the bible is a 2000% scientifically proven scientific fact – even those parts that totally contradict other parts!

    Salvation is possible only through the Catholic Church (this has been 2000% scientifically proven). But every single member of the Catholic Church, except for Matt Wykoff, is an apostate.

    The Catholic Church is awesome because it totally stood up for black people in America and Africa. But what Cortez did to the Aztecs was glorious, because he used an army to do it.

  12. Trebuchet says

    PZ actually suckered me into going to the guys webpage a week or two ago. There’s some serious crazy going on there. Not surprisingly, he’s also a sedevacantist.

  13. Moggie says

    The main thing I took from that is that Christian armies remove a lot of pants. Are pants ungodly? I don’t remember that verse from Onward Christian Soldiers, but perhaps it was censored.

  14. pacal says

    Does this lunatic even know that a Church official investigated the shroud in the mid 14th century and found out it was a fraud and even says he talked to the artist who had faked it?

  15. Johnny Vector says

    I stopped reading at paragraph 2 where he mentions Modusoperandi. Sure, this stuff is mildly amusing, but it’s no Modus.

  16. freehand says

    Nobel Prize winning physicist Dame Isabel Piczek also said that physics prove that the body was floating between the top and bottom part of the 2 sides of the Shroud when the intense burst and flash of the light of the Resurrection occurred. Had this hovering of the body not occurred, the image would have appeared distorted since there was hard rock at the bottom the body was laying on moments before the unprecedented event of the Resurrection.

    Actually, Isabel Piczek is a figure artist, who said the image on the shroud is not a very good image of a man lying down, but is not otherwise distorted. Other artists said that the proportions are all wrong. Mr. Wykoff is clearly not a man to be bothered by trifles such as fact-checking.

  17. mobius says

    Given the density of stupidity in these e-mails, I think that if you receive on more they will all collapse into a black hole of the inane.

    Oh, right. He says Relativity is a fallacy, so black holes must not exist.

    @Reginald Selkirk

    I agree. That first sentence causes him to lose all credibility for anything said afterward.

    I love how people like this don’t try (in any way) to consider the implications of what they are claiming. Consider the dwarf planet Eris. It is roughly 68 AU from Earth. If the Earth is not moving, then Eris is circling the Earth once per day, which means it is traveling roughly 40 billion miles per day, or at a speed of almost 2.5 times the speed of light. OMeffingG!!! Speedy little bugger.

  18. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    isotropically

    Does this mean that no matter how the earth’s axis of rotation varies, a point is always near the equator?

    WTF?

    ===========

    The logical, not to mention scientifically consisten-, point out that the combined forces of the universe which rotate around the Earth are causing the plane of the pendulum to rotate around an immobile Earth.

    First, I don’t think he means “rotate”. i think he means “revolve”.

    Second, galaxies well over 7 *billion* light years away have been observed. Let’s see, 2(pi)r = 14billion(pi) = roughly 44 billion light years. For a galaxy only a bit over 1/2 way to the edges of the observable universe, we find a path of 44 billion light years that must be travelled in 1/(365.24) years. That means (365.24)*44 billion ly = 16.07 trillion light years/year.

    Galaxies speeding along at 1.607 * 10^13 times the speed of light is totes reasonable to this guy.

    Moreover, he thinks that somehow these things circle earth’s axis, not earth, so only galaxies hovering over our equator (7 billion ly over our equator) are represented by the above equation. Galaxies directly above the south pole at the same distance will not revolve around earth at all…but they will rotate, completing one galactic revolution every 24 hours, with (bizarrely) the same orbital period for the innermost stars as for the outermost stars.

    How does that work, exactly?

  19. Loqi says

    Wow, that’s a long chunk of stupid to deconstruct. I’ll have to add it to my to-do list and prioritize it. I’m thinking right above “find out if 10W-30 is good on eggs” and below “learn to masturbate with my elbows.”

  20. says

    I find it interesting that repeatedly and dogged declaring victory seems to be a feature of every screed from fundies/wingnuts/apologiests/anti-science activists/etc…

    It’s almost as though they are trying to convince themselves.

    “I’ve PROVEN that my theory is true!! You HAVE NO RESPONSE!!! Your theory is DESTROYED!!!” said no scientist, ever.

  21. noe1951 says

    Just a couple of questions –

    What is a pagan atheist

    and

    How could the shroud be a 2D object – I’m pretty sure it has width, length and depth.

  22. John Pieret says

    noe1951 @ 27:

    How could the shroud be a 2D object – I’m pretty sure it has width, length and depth

    That’s pretty easy … Mattie knows fuck-all about science or mathematics.

    Which is why he constantly declares victory for his “ideas,” which are one small step up from the Time Cube guy’s, over science.

  23. jakc says

    The man needs to learn what decimate means.

    And you can’t argue for geocentrism and reject relativity. No privileged rest frames mean every point is the center of the universe (the math is just simpler in some)

  24. says

    I only made it to skimming the 2nd screed. I just thought this was a bit interesting:

    I quote your own Pagan atheists for your own sake- not because I need them to prove a point.

    If I understand what he’s trying to say here and before this, he’s saying that these scientists agree with him? Then why are these scientists still “Pagan atheists” and not Catholic? I don’t suppose that even occurred to him to be a flaw in his argument.

  25. coffeehound says

    You scared?

    No, mortified; what the conquistadors did to decimate the indigenous populations in Central and South America was apparently a noble work of God. The casual disdain for anyone not deemed worthy is breath taking. If he’s not actually a person with mental issues(and I’m not saying he is, I can’t know that) he’s a monster.
    I’m going to go throw up.

  26. coffeehound says

    “I’ve PROVEN that my theory is true!! You HAVE NO RESPONSE!!! Your theory is DESTROYED!!!”

    And why does this remind me of a line from Pokemon or Bleach?

  27. says

    the Holy Shroud is a 2 dimensional object encoded with 3 dimensional information! This is physically impossible

    He’s not wrong. it is physically impossible for a 2 dimensional object to exist at all.

  28. magistramarla says

    Wow- That is some weapons-grade insanity there.
    I’m proud of myself – I actually managed to read the whole thing.
    I haven’t taken a science class in over thirty years, but even I could refute much of that nonsense.
    He mentions Hubble a lot. Has he never seen pictures taken from space by that telescope?
    Is he one of those kooks who doesn’t believe that we have sent men into space and even to the moon?
    The pictures that were taken then refute what he said. Even the science that calculated the trajectories of spacecraft, or even of satellites that orbit the earth would refute what he said.
    Those are just the facts that my non-scientific mind thought of immediately.
    I’ll have to show this to my hubby, who holds several science degrees. If he manages to read much of this, he will probably start refuting it point-by-point. On second thought, perhaps I shouldn’t show it to him!
    I really feel sorry for the actual scientist who received a letter from him. She must have laughed hysterically.

  29. Andrew Dyer says

    I was curious as to who the appeal to authority was. Nobel prize winning physicist Dame Isabel Piczek does not exist. Not even as a nominee. In fact if you Google/bing search for the exact phrase “Nobel prize winning physicist…” And her name + variations you will only get links referring to her with that honourific emanating from shroudie sites.

    So maybe Matt would like to address that issue first…

  30. dingojack says

    From the FoAW article The Shroud of Turin

    “Artist Isabel Piczek stated in 1995 that while a general research opinion sees a flatly reclining body on the Shroud, the professional figurative artist can see substantial differences from a flatly reclining position. She stated that the professional arts cannot find discrepancies and distortions in the anatomy of the “Shroud Man”.[115]

    Nickell, in 1983, and Gregory S. Paul in 2010, separately state that the proportions of the image are not realistic. Paul stated that the face and proportions of the shroud image are impossible, that the figure cannot represent that of an actual person and that the posture was inconsistent. They argued that the forehead on the shroud is too small; and that the arms are too long and of different lengths and that the distance from the eyebrows to the top of the head is non-representative. They concluded that the features can be explained if the shroud is a work of a Gothic artist.[116][117]”

    Hmmm – I didn’t know they give out Nobel Prizes for art. Perhaps Mr Nickell and Mr Gregory could apply.

    Dingo
    ——–
    Footnotes:
    115. Isabel Piczek, Is the Shroud of Turin a painting ?, Article
    116. Joe Nickell, Inquest on the Shroud of Turin, 1983
    117. Paul, Gregory S. (6 May 2010). The Shroud of Turin: The Great Gothic Art Fraud. Secular Web Kiosk. Internet Infidels. Retrieved 9 May 2010.

  31. Andrew Dyer says

    Dingojack: No they don’t give out prizes for art as I’m sure you are aware. According to the Nobel.org site, no one by the name of Isabel Piczek has been nominated. Ever. In any field. Try it yourself… :-)
    http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lists/all/create.html?active=1&cat_all=all&year1=Type+year&year2=Type+year&laureate=Isabel+piczek&born1_year=0&born1_month=0&born1_day=0&born2_year=0&born2_month=0&born2_day=0&citation=Type+a+word+or+words+from+the+prize+motivation+text&sorting=default

  32. Moggie says

    dingojack, if the proportions of the image are wrong, perhaps the subject wasn’t human? Could the shroud be evidence of Bigfoot Jesus, for example?

  33. dingojack says

    Whirled Nut Daily headline?

    Shroud of Turin: Conclusive Proof That Jesus Was a Yeti !!!

    :D Dingo

  34. yoav says

    As you should know, carbon dating is quackery

    Then why are you ranting about the test not being done on the actual shroud? If C14 dating is invalid as a method then what difference does it make if they tested the right sample or not.

    Gideon then disemboweled his daughter because he had made a vow that should he be granted victory he will disembowel whoever he sees coming to great him first- out of his house.

    OOPS, wrong character, fundies not reading the buybull make baby jeebus sad.

  35. dingojack says

    She’s nothing. But on the other hand – There’s Nothing like a Dame*.
    Dingo
    ——–
    * sorry

  36. oranje says

    “It is absolutely impossible scientifically for anybody or any technology to put 3 dimensional information in a 2 dimensional object! ”

    I’m playing Picross on a Nintendo 3DS. Miracle of miracles!

  37. true says

    The atheist run full speed ahead away from the truth and science because of matters they find so disquieting. The Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Miraculous Life of Christ are scientifically demonstrated. The Holy Shroud of Turin is absolutely irrefutable. The only attempted response was a reference to a freelance writer [Paul, Gregory S] who doesn’t even attempt to engage the scientific facts about the Shroud but desperately ventures to unfounded and unscientific statements that refute nothing. There was simply no semblance of a response to Wykoff’s communications but only misrepresentations and lies because the Holy Shroud is irrrefutable. Dame Isabel Piczek—a Hungarian trained particle physicist and internationally renowned monumental artist is not the only scientist to state what Wykoff said of her. She is indeed a Nobel Prize winner for her contributions to quantum particle physics. It is hilarious that all the atheist ignore a whole multitude of science facts and then jump to ad hominem attacks against Piczek because they allegedly can’t find her on the internet- at least on atheist websites. STURP (the most elite scientists on the planet that studied the Shroud) state that all disciplines of science prove it is 2000 years old. Lastly a statement was made about Harry Gove the father of modern carbon dating. He debunked the 1988 carbon tests on the Shroud and proved them to be scientifically discredited. There is absolutely No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church see http://www.vaticancatholic.com

  38. Michael Heath says

    true writes:

    The Crucifixion [sic], Resurrection [sic], and Miraculous [sic] Life [sic] of Christ are scientifically demonstrated.

    If what you assert is objectively true, please validate your resurrection claim. To meet the standards of science that would require you provide peer-reviewed citations from credible experts that empirically validates Jesus’ resurrection, with sufficient independent validation of those findings by other peer-reviewed research that has you using the language of certainty above.

    Please don’t merely provide a link, but also quote the exact findings which validates your claims. Good luck with that.

    After failing to demonstrate that which you assert here, what’s your strategy to maintain your belief as written above? Simple denialism with more bald [false] assertions? Yes, I’m presuming you’ll fail, simply because we have no empirical evidence Jesus, the person you refer to as Christ, even existed as a human. Let alone was some type of hybrid god-man that died and was resurrected days later.

  39. true says

    There was no semblance of a response either to the irrefutable facts of Geocentrism. The only attempted responses were: 1. the “science” that calculates the trajectories of spacecraft and satellites disproves Geocentrism. This is plain dumb- mrs. atheist. As any cosmologist will tell you and even the leading ones such as Stephen Hawking, Lawrence Krauss, Sir Fredrick Hoyle, and Ellis admit that Geocentrism and heliocentrism are geometrically the same. Thus when one calculates the trajectories of satellites etc one is using the same geometrics as in Geocentrism. Mrs. atheist (she calls herself “magistramarla”) then went on to make the super dull argument befitting female infidels- that pictures taken from the Hubble telescope allegedly prove helicentrism. That is isn’t true. Yes the moon landing was a huge hoax. Another attempted response to the scientific fact of Geocentrism was that the stars and galaxies would be traveling faster the speed of light. This is not a scientific argument because it doesn’t disprove Geocentrism. Pagans who make this argument condemn themselves out of their own mouths because their leading “cosmologist” Stephen Hawking and many others believe in the myths of the big bang and inflation: modern pagan “cosmology” says the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. You also believe that the earth is rotating 2,000 per hour on its axis while for some reason barreling through space at 67,000+ miles per hour. Now to refute you on your own principle (your belief in general relativity): Moreover the general theory of relativity (by your hero Einstein) allows the galaxies, stars, etc to travel faster the speed of light Albert allowed for the stars to travel around the earth. Here is what Albert said on the issue:

    “In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position. Now we might think that as a consequence of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity cannot claim an unlimited domain of validity; its results hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the phenomena (e.g., of light)” (Albert Einstein, Relativity: The Special and the General Theory, authorized translation by Robert W. Lawson, 1961, p. 85.).
    Using Albert’s theory, another Relativist wrote:

    …it is permissible to assume that the Earth is a nonrotating frame of reference. From this point of view, the stars will have a circular velocity around the Earth that is much greater than the speed of light. A star only ten light-years away has a relative velocity around the Earth of twenty thousand times the speed of light. (Martin Gardner,Relativity Explosion, 1976, p. 68.)

    A more technical book on Relativity written for the scientist admits the same:

    “Relative to the stationary roundabout [the Earth], the distant stars would have…linear velocities exceeding 3 × 108 m/sec, the terrestrial value of the velocity of light. At first sight this appears to be a contradiction…that the velocities of all material bodies must be less than c [the speed of light]. However, the restriction u < c = 3 × 108 m/sec is restricted to the theory of Special Relativity. According to the General theory, it is possible to choose local reference frames in which, over a limited volume of space, there is no gravitational field, and relative to such a reference frame the velocity of light is equal to c…. If gravitational fields are present the velocities of either material bodies or of light can assume any numerical value depending on the strength of the gravitational field. If one considers the rotating roundabout as being at rest, the centrifugal gravitational field assumes enormous values at large distances, and it is consistent with the theory of General Relativity for the velocities of distant bodies to exceed 3 × 108 m/sec under these conditions” (An Introduction to the Theory of Relativity, William Geraint Vaughn Rosser, 1964, p. 460)

    Another attempted refutation was that GPS would not be able to work without relativity and heliocentrism. Actually that isn’t the case at all. Ronald R. Hatch confirmed that satellites are secretly preprogrammed by NASA according to the geocentric model of the universe. There is absolutely No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church visit http://www.vaticancatholic.com

  40. dingojack says

    True – concerning Isabel Piczek:
    a) Where, when and by whom was she knighted?
    b) At what institution did she receive her doctorate in particle physics?
    Citations for these unsubstantiated claims are required.
    Dingo

  41. Andrew Dyer says

    Mr Wykoff. The Nobel organisation itself has no record of either her nomination or award for a prize in any field. If that is a distrustful source then why bother to inflate her expertise by claiming recognition by the Nobel committee?

    So the first supposed expert I bothered to check on has falsified credentials. Care to answer that accusation? Or are you going to handwave that lie away as well?

    .

  42. dingojack says

    I just had to know.
    The galaxy UDFj-39546284 has the largest redshift of any galaxy (z = 11.9), giving a velocity of recession of (((z+1)^2)-1)/(((z+1)^2)+1), or approximately 0.988c.
    Dingo
    ——–
    The Cosmic Microwave Background (radiation) from the Big Bang has a z value of approximately 1089 giving it a recession velocity of or around 0.9999983c.

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