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Nov 24 2013

LeClaire: Atheists Are Coming For Your Soul!

Jennifer LeClaire is a terminally clueless columnist for Charisma magazine and she is very upset that some atheists actually try to convince Christians that they’re wrong. She does everything but compare atheists to zombies from the Walking Dead in this column.

Anything the gay agenda can do, the atheists can do better. That seems to be the unbeliever’s mantra for 2013 as godless radicals rise up not only for recognition—and not only to tear down all things Christian in the public square—but to actually woo born-again Bible believers to the dark side.

Call it reverse evangelism. A growing number of atheist activists are no longer content with “freedom from religion” campaigns that seek to keep the local football stars from wearing John 3:16 on their helmets or to stop Christmas caroling on elementary school campuses. This new breed of atheist activism wants to inject doubt into your doctrine with its own brand of Christless charisma.

Consider Peter Boghossian, a philosophy instructor and author of a hot new book dubbed A Manual for Creating Atheists. Yes, it’s actually a book that aims to equip nonbelievers with the skills they need to talk believers into willfully turning their back on Christ. This atheist is hoping to drive Christians into full-blown apostasy.

“Faith is an unreliable reasoning process,” Boghossian told Religion News Service. “It will not take you to reality. So we need to help people value processes of reasoning that will lead them to the truth.”

Jesus is the truth. He’s also the way and the life. (See John 14:6.)

Well I guess she told him! There is nothing wrong, of course, with trying to change someone’s mind, to convince them that they are wrong and you are right (and I have no patience for those who pretend that they’re not doing that when they argue with someone about a subject — of course you are, and there’s nothing wrong with it). And yes, that includes Christians trying to convince me that I’m wrong and they’re right.

18 comments

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  1. 1
    Al Dente

    Somehow I doubt Ms LeClaire has any objection to Christian missionary efforts. Does the word hypocrisy mean anything to you, Jennifer?

  2. 2
    raven

    It happens both ways. The fundie xians are coming for your kids!!! And you.

    Springs church, school clash over proselytizing – The Denver Post
    ww. denverpost. com/ci_12286425‎

    May 4, 2009 – COLORADO SPRINGS — Representatives of a local Christian church tried to lure a seventh-grader at Russell Middle School into a church van last night (to baptise them) … asking that they instruct their children not to talk to strangers, and the district … But sources told The Gazette that it was Cornerstone Baptist Church, which is …

    Some xians lurk in the shadows stalking and waiting for unwary children so they can grab them and convert and baptise them. Cornerstone church is now banned from school property in Colorado Springs.

    They spend billions of dollars trying to get your kids. I found out a while ago, an ugly cult, The Child Evangelism Fellowship is operating in my community. They target children, in the public schools when they can get away with it. Their brand of xianity is cuckoo even by fundie death cult standards.

    You need to have the “talk” with your kids as early as possible. Watch out for strange xians lurking around. And if you see suspicious activity, call the police. It is what they are there for. They really are out to get your kids.

  3. 3
    raven

    Good News Club Wikipedia,
    edited for length

    Good News Club is a weekly evangelical program for 5–12 year old children featuring a Bible lesson, songs, memory verses, and games.[1] It is the leading ministry of Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF),

    reports that in 2011, there were 3560 Good News Clubs in public schools across the United States and over 42,000 clubs worldwide.[2][4] Good News Club was the subject of Good News Club v. Milford Central School, 533 U.S. 98 (2001), which held that Good News Club was entitled to the same access as other groups, like the Boy Scouts, to provide after-school programs designed to promote “moral and character development” to Milford School’s elementary children.

    The dramatic expansion of Good News Clubs in United States public elementary schools has been a source of frequent controversy, as chronicled and exhibited recently in journalist Katherine Stewart’s The Good News Club: The Christian Right’s Stealth Assault on America’s Children (2012).[5]

    Xians stalking and attacking your kids is a huge problem.

    The Child Evangelism Fellowship is ugly even by death cult xian standards. They were banned from a lot of schools for their lessons content which are bizarre by American standards. It turns out that legally they couldn’t and there are now 3560 clubs in primary public schools.

  4. 4
    Sastra

    From the column:

    So here’s the question: Could an atheist talk you out of your faith? Don’t answer too quickly.

    She’s right — the believer better not answer too quickly because this question is a very dangerous question. Either way the Christian answers it, they’re screwed. So please — take your time.

    The major problem they face stems from their underlying assumption that they believe that Christianity is true because it IS true. The facts support it. The evidence is behind it. It’s not only A reasonable conclusion, it is THE reasonable conclusion. The faith is only there to help it along, to make sure that you’re open-minded and warm-hearted enough to accept it.

    So if they insist that an atheist could NEVER talk them out of “their faith” then they’ve lost this. The high ground of truth is gone: no facts, evidence, or argument could make a dent even in theory because their faith rests on faith itself. They’ve made a moral commitment to believe and that is that: you can’t reason someone out of something they didn’t reason their way in to.

    They end up weakening their position by digging in their heels — and they can figure this out. Why do they spend so much time trying to convince themselves that their faith is a REASONABLE faith if not? Why the apologetics and the personal stories and the love affair with science-finds-god and history-proves the Bible. They know how reality works. It’s that stuff which doesn’t care what you want to be true. They batter the atheists with this all the time. They know it’s a weapon.

    But once they try to avoid this Scylla and agree that well, okay, in theory they could be talked out of their faith but not to worry, their case is solid — they’re in trouble. Charybdis. You don’t make a freakin’ song-and-dance about something needing “faith” to believe in if your case actually stands on its own merits. Every single supernatural aspect of religion falls apart under critical analysis. Every one.

    LeClaire’s surprise is disingenuous. Look, you can’t go on and on and on about how your beliefs are TRUE and really, really MATTER — and then act shocked when people take you at your word and argue with you about the issue.

    Pick a horse and ride it, lady. If this is just some special, personal preference that makes you and other people happy then drop all the crap about it being objectively true. You don’t care: this is about what “works.” But if you want to stand on its truth — then welcome to the debate. You can be told you are WRONG. And we atheists will point out WHY.

    Having it both ways is no longer an option.

  5. 5
    Modusoperandi

    Look, they just want to talk about the Lord. What can you Athiests do? Talk about nothing?

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to spread the Good News, by going to dinner and leaving a piece of paper with Bible verses on one side and a copy of a ten dollar bill on the other instead of a tip.

  6. 6
    zmidponk

    I think this just underlines the difference between faith-based belief systems and more rational ones – in faith-based ones, the idea of critically examining your beliefs is considered a very wrong and dangerous thing, but, in more rational ones, that’s not just permissible, but actually a prudent course of action.

  7. 7
    dingojack

    According to the Australian 2011 Census 22.303% of the population have ‘no religion’*. After Catholicism it’s Australia’s second most popular position on religion** .
    Dingo
    ——-
    * this, of course, doesn’t not equate to being atheist (as a rule of thumb ‘I’d take them as being around 4.5%)
    ** as a whole though, 61.144% are still characterised as ‘christian’.

  8. 8
    Larry

    Wow! I didn’t realize we athiests were so powerful. It almosts makes one feel, dare I say, god-like.

  9. 9
    raven

    OT but sort of related. The fundies are not only coming for your kids, they are coming for…Obama.

    A heads up here. You don’t want to stand next to Obama for the next few days. A group on Facebook is threatening to kill him.

    The Christian American Patriots Militia. Looks like they left “White” out by accident.

    Oh well. I guess we will find out if xian terrorism goes well with turkey.

    Sat Nov 23, 2013 Dailykos com
    Christian Militia Claims ‘Authority’ To Shoot And Kill Obama
    by Leslie Salzillo .

    Just when you think the right-wing ‘Christian’ extremists can’t get any worse, they now are making death threats against President Obama – on Facebook. Everest W, the administrator of the Facebook group Christian American Patriots Militia wrote a status that starts with:

    “We now have the authority to shoot Obama, i.e. to kill him.”
    They must not know it’s a federal crime and felony to make threats against any president. If they thought they were keeping it a secret, the word is out. Facebook, the FBI, and the Secret Service have been notified by numerous Facebook users claiming they called/contacted authorities.

  10. 10
    shripathikamath

    Atheists are coming for your souls, Palin is coming for your money, and secularists are resuming their war on Christmas.

    Oh wait, not secularists, Fox and Friends

    Quick, someone fetch Bill O’Reilly!

  11. 11
    danrobinson

    “Anything the gay agenda can do, the atheists can do better. ”

    Beware my gay atheist superpowers! FOOLS!!! I’ll destroy them ALLL!!! Muahahahahaha!!!!

  12. 12
    birgerjohansson

    “Anything the gay agenda can do, the atheists can do better”

    A perfect T-shirt slogan!
    — — — — — — — — — —
    Atheists Are Coming For Your Soul…and sucking your brain out with their mandibles.

  13. 13
    richardelguru

    As the old folk song ‘Tom of Bedlam’ has it
    “I went down to Satan’s kitchen
    “To break my fast one morning,
    “And there I got souls piping hot
    “Upon the spit a-turning”…
     

    Mmmmmmm souls. Juicy. Hot. [drool drool]

  14. 14
    Raging Bee

    Speaking of atheists vs. evangelicals, has anyone else noticed the new ads for “A modern Christmas Carol,” which the ads call “the book you should get the atheists on your shopping list?” The ads just get wierder and wierder, eh?

  15. 15
    democommie

    Brains, honey, it’s the BRAINS that zombies hunger for. Souls–we don’t believe in them; wtf? why would we waste our time looking to take something we don’t think exists. Brains, otoh, in their pink and gray yumminess, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, tasteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Fundie brains are of course very expensive because hardshell KKKrisitians, much like softshell lobsters have very little in the way of content.

  16. 16
    anubisprime

    It would seem that folks like Peter Boghossian scare the living shite out of faith heads…cos a lot of faith is only skin deep anyway, and that is a weakness that has never been sorted in over 2000 yrs.

    The problem is such weakness is vulnerable to rationality, one reason their faith is not that deep in the first place and if they have a beacons like Peter Boghossian and Dawkins, and PZ shining in the darkness of intellectual vapidity they have an escape route, and that is what is feared, it is not the book or the argument it is these folks publicly exist…and that is scary for the average dumbfuck.

    They are indeed scared…and the faith heads fear is making them try and say absolutely outrageous comments that are neither true, evidenced nor indeed cogent.

    The fear makes their desperation careless and the more they succumb to that fear the more their position becomes untenable and they know it but cannot help themselves, they trade on the dumbness of their audience.
    But the audience is not quite as dumb as could be wished.
    Seems the dissolution of religion requires only the professed fans to panic, their ignorance does the rest by turning their faith into a parody…

    Atheism needs to do nothing, just be there!

  17. 17
    a_ray_in_dilbert_space

    You know, I can see that her being an xtian is an advantage. It means I’m not associated with anyone quite that dumb.

  18. 18
    freehand

    democommie:

    Fundie brains are of course very expensive because hardshell KKKrisitians, much like softshell lobsters have very little in the way of content.

    In the year 2045, tissue rejection and central nervous system repair has become commonplace. A very (very!) old businessman went to his doctor. The doctor told him that irreparable brain damage has finally started to set in, but he could be fixed up by a brain transplant.
    “Brain transplant? Well, what do you have on hand?”
    The doctor replied. “We have two in the office, if you want to take care of it now.”
    “How much would it be?
    The doctor replied “We have an atheist brain for $300 (new standard megadollars) and a fundamentalist’s brain for $18,000.”
    “Three hundred or eighteen thousand!” cried the businessman. “That’s quite a difference. Look, I want the best for myself, but I didn’t get rich by wasting money, either. Why the great disparity?”
    “Well,” answered the doctor, “The atheist’s brain is used.”

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