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Oct 27 2013

Vox Day Defends Taliban on Educating Women

Some of you may think that Vox Day, after coming out against women having the right to vote, couldn’t get any more repulsive. This post, in which he defends the Taliban for denying women the right to an education (through violent means, of course), should disabuse you of that notion.

Not only have the proposed benefits [of educating women] manifestly failed to manifest themselves, but the opportunity cost of future generations has begun to become readily apparent everywhere from Europe to Asia. One wonders how low birth rates have to fall in civilized countries before the elites begin to realize that the Taliban may not, in fact, be the stupid ones with regards to this particular matter…

But there is no empirical evidence indicating that female education is societally beneficial, and there is an increasing amount of evidence that correlates it with a broad range of societal ills. The Japanese birthrate has continued to fall, hitting a historical low at 1.26 per woman in 2005. In 2012 the number of deaths exceeded births for a sixth straight year.

Just ask the Shakers, another equalitarian society that believed in the importance of educating women.

Shorter Vox Day: “If you let women be educated, they’re less inclined to be mindless incubators who produce babies on command.” Because women exist solely as baby-making machines, not as actual people with equal rights and self-determination and all that rot, amirite? One begins to wonder if his mother was educated. If she is, she must be regretting giving birth to such a weapons-grade fuckwit.

49 comments

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  1. 1
    Joey Maloney

    You had me at “Vox Day”. And by “had” I mean “utterly repulsed”.

  2. 2
    marcus

    The Shaker’s religious doctrine called for complete celibacy. It is possible that this had a negative effect on their birthrate, and hence, the low creation rate of new Shakers. I wish Vox Day’s parents had been Shakers. The world would be a better place.

  3. 3
    Modusoperandi

    To be fair, Vox Day is a massive asshole.

  4. 4
    ShowMetheData

    “low birth rates” is a racist dog-whistle for incoming brown hordes and for Islamaphobes – for incoming Muslim hordes

  5. 5
    Pen

    Opportunity cost? For whom?

  6. 6
    D. C. Sessions

    The Shaker’s religious doctrine called calls for complete celibacy. It is possible that this had a negative effect on their birthrate

    A) FTFY — there are still a few.
    B) Not only does it reduce the birthrate, it’s not the best thing in the world for recruitment either. On the other hand, they do manage to avoid extinction.

  7. 7
    dingojack

    Aww Poxy – still can’t get a date? Perhaps you should try frilly chartreuse shirts and peacocks (or at very least getting out of your momma’s basement).
    Dingo

  8. 8
    Pierce R. Butler

    The Guardian recently published an intriguing article about the “birth dearth” in Japan, which represents a major breakdown in sexual relations across the board. (One-third of Japanese under 30 have never gone on a date.)

    My short take: a corporate-dominated economy has put most people on a treadmill of working and consuming, while a toxically patriarchal culture keeps women away from both marriage and lasting relationships with men (who have no better models of interacting with women, and often not enough money to fulfill the roles they know). An interesting take on the ways humans can foul up gender issues even without religious taboos poisoning everything.

  9. 9
    colnago80

    Well, AFAIK, Theodore Beale’s father is still in the slammer for tax evasion and threatening the life of a federal judge. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

  10. 10
    alanb

    One begins to wonder if his mother was educated. If she is, she must be regretting giving birth to such a weapons-grade fuckwit.

    She is listed as the owner of her ex-husband’s company, so I assume has to at least have some smarts. See http://www.comtrol.com/news-events/press/press-archives-2007/comtrol-corporation-announces-new-ownership-and-board-of-directors

  11. 11
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Vox Day Defends Taliban on Educating Women

    Dafuck?

    Dafuck!?!

    DAFUCK!!???!

    Even for Vox Day just .. What The FUCK!?!

  12. 12
    Ace of Sevens

    He seems to have been in a contest with Roosh V to see who could be the biggest asshole. Mr. Day may have just won.

  13. 13
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ ^ Ace of Sevens : there’s always a bigger arsehole.. somewhere out there.

    Always.

    A bigger arsehole out there able to dig below the Earth’s core in arseholishishness.

    Sadly.

    Wish it were otherwise. But it ain’t.

  14. 14
    Al Dente

    Pox Day may not be the absolute biggest asshole in the world, but he’s definitely in the running.

  15. 15
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Oh & I do think that the Taliban are bigger arseholes because they’ve actually done what Vox Day just disgustingly rhetorically defends.

    Let’s not forget that.

    However grudgingly and however totally wrong and, yes, its flippin’ VERY – Vox Day may be.

  16. 16
    Al Dente

    Some years ago, Pox Day posted a picture of his Mensa membership card. It was expired.

  17. 17
    John Pieret

    Well, PVox, why don’t we just get to the root of the problem and lobotomize all girl children immediately after birth?

  18. 18
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Malala Yousufzai lives.

    And is more powerful, a far better person, than Vox Dei and the Taliban and the others could ever hope to be.

    This world is an incredibly fucked up nasty place ..and still worth fighting for and making better.

  19. 19
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @17. John Pieret : Shhh.. Don’t give him any ideas!

  20. 20
    schism

    manifestly failed to manifest

    Redundant word use? Overt verbiage? Aw, Voxy is trying to justify his IQ claims again.

  21. 21
    matty1

    “low birth rates” is a racist dog-whistle for incoming brown hordes and for Islamaphobes – for incoming Muslim hordes

    I was going to post about this being incompatible with supporting the Taliban, then I remembered who we were talking about. Consistency is obviously too high a bar for Vox to jump.

  22. 22
    colnago80

    Re schism @ #20

    Theodore Beale is a textbook example of why IQ is greatly overrated as a measure of intelligence.

  23. 23
    thomasmorris

    Why do I do this to myself. Why do I click the link?!

    The comments section…

    The horror… The horror…

    They start out with

    Give [sic] women who are not married mothers any type of status is insanity.

    And get worse from there. Also, personal autonomy and “rights” are apparently overrated concepts (at least when applied to anyone not “fortunate” enough to have a penis.)

    Excuse me, I’m going to go curl up in a ball and weep for humanity.

  24. 24
    Ani J. Sharmin

    Sometimes, I’m just horrified at humanity. But then, as @StevoR (#18) wrote above, I’m reminded that there are people like Malala Yousafzai and that there is good in the world.

    What always gets to me about the kind of argument that people like Vox Day make, about the “costs” of equal rights for girls and women (whether in education or other areas) is that they treat the “cost” of these same opportunities for men as a given, as something that is *obviously* a worthwhile investment, due to the benefits. But when it comes to girls and women, then suddenly, they ignore all the benefits and only focus on the cost.

  25. 25
    matty1

    To grant this more serious attention than it deserves why are falling birth rates such a bad thing?

    -There are only so many resources in the world, sooner or later the population will have to stop growing
    -This can come by fewer births or more deaths.
    -The kind of deaths involved in a population crash would probably involve more suffering than those outside including starvation and increased violence.
    - By contrast a lower birth rate has fewer and less unpleasant consequences.

    Obviously it’s not simple, we need to look at a global scale and consider things like migration and the combination of an ageing population with a social model that assumes retirement but the idea that a steady or declining population is automatically worse than the alternative doesn’t stand up.

  26. 26
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Okay, I know Vox Day got kicked out of the SciFi writers association, but the bigger question, for me, is with chops like

    manifestly failed to manifest

    how did he manage to get in?

  27. 27
    Modusoperandi

    Ani J. Sharmin “What always gets to me about the kind of argument that people like Vox Day make, about the ‘costs’ of equal rights for girls and women (whether in education or other areas) is that they treat the ‘cost’ of these same opportunities for men as a given, as something that is *obviously* a worthwhile investment, due to the benefits. But when it comes to girls and women, then suddenly, they ignore all the benefits and only focus on the cost.”
    Other people don’t matter. I matter. It’s psychopathy as ideology.
    To put it another way, picture Vox as a two year old with a thesaurus, using big words to say, “Mine!”

  28. 28
    Ani J. Sharmin

    @Crip Dyke (#26): Inspired by your comment, I decided to go to Amazon and take a look at samples from Vox Day’s books. So far, the result is me shaking my head. (Several of his books do have high ratings, though, from 4 to 5 stars.) Someone or other from one of the “qualifying professional markets” (as they’re called on the SFWA membership qualifications page) must have published something he wrote for him to gain membership, though I’m glad he got kicked out.

  29. 29
    D. C. Sessions

    I know Vox Day got kicked out of the SciFi writers association

    Last I checked, he hadn’t been expelled. On the other hand, he hadn’t been elected president of the SFWA either.

    The scary part is that he actually got enough votes to come anywhere close.

  30. 30
    democommie

    @25:

    You silly person. It’s not SHRINKING for everybody. It’s teh wimmuns, expeshly the BLACK wimmins who are having all the kids, popping them out like a Pez dispenser. NO MEN, expechly white mens are having ANY kidz. JESUS, gunz and STFU, that’s why!!

  31. 31
    Ani J. Sharmin

    @D. C. Sessions (#29): Yes, it was definitely scary that he actually got support after some of the stuff he said. I mean, sf stories often have lots of ideas about the future. It’s disheartening to see that even people who can dream up great things about the future can still promote such bigotry. But then again, I guess it’s not so surprising that bigotry can be found everywhere.

    I did a quick search to make sure I was remembering correctly, and I found posts about him being expelled as of from August 2013. Example: “Beale Expelled from SFWA”. Locus Mag Online. 14 August 2013.

  32. 32
    matty1

    I just had a thought, can we make the Taliban an offer. Swap all the women they don’t want for Theodore Beale. That way everyone wins.

  33. 33
    Modusoperandi

    matty1 “I just had a thought, can we make the Taliban an offer. Swap all the women they don’t want for Theodore Beale. That way everyone wins.”
    The Dicks for Chicks program.

  34. 34
    Nick Gotts

    VD is simply lying when he claims there is no empirical evidence for the benefits of educating women. See for example here, on maternal mortality, and here on the cognitive achievements and behaviour of children. Putting the terms “female education” and “child health” into Google Scholar will bring up many papers confirming the positive effects of the first on the second. But of course a scumbag like VD doesn’t care if women die in childbirth, or if children suffer poor health or fail to achieve their potential.

  35. 35
    matty1

    VD is simply lying

    Wrong, he is complexly lying, using long words and redundant verbiage to try and make people give up before they realise what he is full of.

  36. 36
    caseloweraz

    @D.C. Sessions:

    His blog banner says he was banned by the Science Fiction Writers of America.

    I think it says a lot that he’s proud of that. And what it says doesn’t reflect favorably on VD.

    By the way, it strikes me as odd that anyone would pick a nym that has the initials “VD”. Just sayin’.

  37. 37
    caseloweraz

    @Nick Gotts (#34):

    He’s lying by omission. He makes that assertion, then jumps right to the birthrate in Japan.

  38. 38
    Modusoperandi

    caseloweraz and he ignores that most of their fallen birthrate is a byproduct of all the coitus interuptus brought necessitated by the almost constant fleeing from Godzilla, Robot-Yeti, Cyber-Zilla, Norzzug (the Living Statue), Armillaria, Mechagodzilla, Anguirus, Battra, Hedorah, Biollante, Rodan, Gigan, Mothra, Destroyah & King Ghidorah.

  39. 39
    caseloweraz

    @ThomasMorris (#23):

    The comments section is bad, but not as bad as some others I’ve seen (e.g. WUWT). It does allow dissent; there just is a predominance of comments that agree with VD.

    I noticed this brilliant comment:

    Women in any kind of management position barely even show up for work at all- they are always OUT. Don’t come in on Mon., Fri, come in after 10:30am, leave at 2pm, call in sick every other day, take off HUGE blocks of time. It’s like some kind of phenomenon all across every industry- then one day they just suddenly quit their job and never work again, EVER.

    I wish this guy could be locked in a room with Carley Fiorina and Meg Whitman. Or either one alone. (Not that I’m a fan of those two women, but they certainly put paid to his obtuse argument.)

    And someone named Ann Morgan — probably the most intelligent commentor in this particular thread — politely takes him to task for it. There are a few intelligent commentors who question VD’s premises. They generally get incoherent answers.

  40. 40
    matty1

    I just wish this guy could be locked in a room.

  41. 41
    laurentweppe

    “low birth rates” is a racist dog-whistle for incoming brown hordes and for Islamaphobes

    It’s also a classist dog whistle for “The plebs are Outbreeding us!

  42. 42
    pacal

    Let us not forget Vox Day’s repellant comment justifying / excusing the attempted murder of Malala for the terrible “crime” of wanting to be educated.

  43. 43
    uncephalized

    To grant this more serious attention than it deserves why are falling birth rates such a bad thing?

    -There are only so many resources in the world, sooner or later the population will have to stop growing
    -This can come by fewer births or more deaths.
    -The kind of deaths involved in a population crash would probably involve more suffering than those outside including starvation and increased violence.
    - By contrast a lower birth rate has fewer and less unpleasant consequences.

    Obviously it’s not simple, we need to look at a global scale and consider things like migration and the combination of an ageing population with a social model that assumes retirement but the idea that a steady or declining population is automatically worse than the alternative doesn’t stand up.

    In general, I agree with this. A gradually dropping population would be a boon for the Earth and humanity in the long run and IMO is one of the necessary preconditions for our survival past the next couple of centuries. The main problem with the situation in Japan seems to be the fact that so many young people are avoiding relationships, love and sex entirely because their society is so full of fucked up perverse incentives and crushing pressure to conform to the ultra-corporate, ultra-consumerist status quo (a model that doesn’t even work anymore, but is still forced on the young people by an older generation still very much in charge of all the money), that they don’t have the resources or energy to pursue a normal human life that includes love and/or sex. And that’s a big problem not because of possible demographic repercussions but because (most) adult humans need physical intimacy to be fully functional and healthy. Seems to me like a whole generation of Japanese people are getting screwed by their overlords (by not screwing).

  44. 44
    Scott Hanley

    But there is no empirical evidence indicating that female education is societally beneficial, and there is an increasing amount of evidence that correlates it with a broad range of societal ills.

    Wait, the conservatives are the collectivists now and the liberals are the individualists? I just can’t keep this stuff straight anymore ….

  45. 45
    timgueguen

    Beale unfortunately has 3 kids. Poor kids.

  46. 46
    Modusoperandi

    Scott Hanley “Wait, the conservatives are the collectivists now and the liberals are the individualists? I just can’t keep this stuff straight anymore ….”
    Now you’re just being ridiculous. Liberals mandate some bizarre and impossible Utopia from above, with outliers viciously punished with adequate taxation and punitive verbal censure, whereas conservatives leave each Family Unit the voluntary personal responsibily to live how conservatives, via Unchanging Natural Law, are commanding them to, rewarding those who stick to the path of righteousness a spot in the Natural Order where they can treat those below as badly as those above treat them.

  47. 47
    valhar2000

    I find it interesting that, for all the talk about the damage equality has done, he only mentions one thing (lower birthrates), and assumes that everyone is going to agree with him that that is bad, even though there are plenty of people who believe that low birth rates are a net good.

    This reminds of one time when I was arguing with people who demanded that everyone vote for Ron Paul since he would protect the USA from illegal immigrants. I asked them several times to explain to me what exactly it is that makes illegal immigrants so very bad, and what exactly it is that the USA needs protection from.

    I got insults and non-sequiturs, and only one actual reply, to the effect that illegal immigrants encourage identity theft by purchasing social security numbers stolen from American citizens. I declined to ask that guy for evidence that this is true, a significant problem or more likely to happen as a results of illegal immigrants entering the country, since I figured I had taxed his brain enough already.

  48. 48
    raven42

    I like how he points to Japan’s low birth rate without for a second even considering that there might be other causes besides “women are getting an education.” For starters, having children in Japan is monstrously expensive, especially if you want to get them into a good college to have a real future.

  49. 49
    youresocraycray

    Hey, so check out this bloke’s comment on a paleo blogger’s comment section. Apparently Vox Day is a genius who has schooled renowned scholars! Can anyone verify this?

    FWIW I could actually believe he could have a high IQ in the IQ-test kind of way. Though I guess it shows that high-IQ people can be pretty fucking dumb.

    “Your going the name calling/shaming route……meh

    Your jumping to conclusions to quickly without reading what he’s getting at. A bit to much s/f lately but you’d be hard pressed to disagree with anything he says, he’s had many a debate with various renowned atheist/biologists/geneticist/economists and he’s wiped the floor with them all. The dude knows his shit in a big way.
    Check out his vibrancy tab, on the left. I completely agree with what he says and he’s 1 of the few people with the balls to point this shit out, and not scared of the big bad racist stick ignorant people love chucking around.

    Errrr give[/i]”

    itsthewooo.blogspot.com/2013/06/my-non-existant-god-judgybitch-is.html

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