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Barber Tells Gay People What They Really Know

One of the most irritating things about fundamentalists is their presumptuousness. It doesn’t matter what you think you think, they know what you really think in your “heart of hearts” (a fundie catchphrase that grates on me like nails on a blackboard. Here’s Matt Barber telling gay people that they really, truly know that being gay is “immoral, unnatural, and self-destructive.” Like when they tell atheists that, deep down, we really know there’s a god.

Comments

  1. says

    I’d love to be flippant, but these assholes tend to succeed at their goal of making less certain gay people doubt themselves. I’ve come to terms with it now and don’t have doubts, but it isn’t trivial to do. I despise them for their actions even if it doesn’t hurt me anymore. You should try growing up this way, Barber, you’d grow a sense of empathy.

  2. cptdoom says

    Deep inside their “heart of hearts,” Mormons know that Joseph Smith was a con artist, that his religious books are frauds and that their religion is in defiance against the true God. That is why they crave this affirmation, and demand, under the penalty of the law (both state and federal, unlike anti-discrimination laws for LGBT Americans, which are only at the state level), that all Christians regard their lifestyle as normal and natural.

  3. Abby Normal says

    He’s just desperately trying to cover the fact that in his heart of hearts he’s a bi-sexual man who knows God is just another name for Santa.

    (Earnest and angry is fine Rutee. I can be flippant enough for the both of us.)

  4. Friendly says

    I am currently attempting — probably as a completely pointless exercise — to defend evolution and explain my problems with creationism and Christianity to a flaming hardcore Christian creationist who happens to be a public school science teacher (arrgh). The more I try to break it down for him, the deeper into “all-knowing priest mode” he goes: From the starting point of “You were never really a Christian” and “You’re bitter against God” (which are standard lines I’ve come to expect) to “You were burned by dead religion and your church was false” (turns out he’s some kind of super-Calvinist who believes that any denomination teaching that humans have free will is apostate) to, in his most recent broadside, “You have bought into a lie, and you have messed with the occult enough to be blinded by Satan, and [are] unable to see the truth” (see, when he met me, he happened to notice that I was playing a card game that had pictures of wizards on the cards, so obviously I’m only a few steps away from summoning hellspawn and sacrificing babies to Moloch) and “Fall on your face and stop the rebellion.” Very sad. I think that “conversation” has pretty well outlived any usefulness it might have had, but if there was any actual openness and cognitive-dissonance logical function left in his brain, I did want to take a shot at reaching it.

  5. says

    Friendly “he’s some kind of super-Calvinist who believes that any denomination teaching that humans have free will is apostate” & “‘Fall on your face and stop the rebellion.'”
    Compare and contrast.

    “see, when he met me, he happened to notice that I was playing a card game that had pictures of wizards on the cards, so obviously I’m only a few steps away from summoning hellspawn and sacrificing babies to Moloch”
    To be fair, it is a slippery slope.

  6. raven says

    Deep downj in his heart, Barber knows he is an idiot, a second rate consperson, and a bigoted hater.

    Well that was easy. Next fundie cliche please.

  7. sc_72717b0d8dc4053e632b6512091cef73 says

    The sad truth is that in their “heart of hearts”, most fundamentalists know that their bible is flawed and that their beliefs are a sham, which is why they struggle so hard to project these feelings onto others.

  8. raven says

    The sad truth is that in their “heart of hearts”, most fundamentalists know that their bible is flawed and that their beliefs are a sham, which is why they struggle so hard to project these feelings onto others.

    True.

    It’s also why they lie a lot, get violent, and occasionally kill people. The xians found out millennia ago that it can be hard to convert people but threats of lethal force and occasional murders worked better.

  9. John Pieret says

    Their sphincters are welded shut so tight by their fear of retribution from their supposedly loving god that they simply can’t conceive of the possibility that anyone could come to the realization that their own feelings, desires and loves are not unnatural or immoral just because it’s condemned in some ancient book. If they were ever to accept that other people are not as afraid as they are, it might start to dawn on them that they don’t need to be afraid … and that way lies apostacy.

  10. Friendly says

    @Modus:

    Compare and contrast.

    Indeed. To gank from Vader (surely not a wise choice), “The irony meter is well broken in this one.”

    To be fair, it is a slippery slope

    First the games seem so innocent, then you’re hearing voices, and then — WHAM! — you’re chalking pentagrams and signing pacts in blood. I heard all about it on Focus on the Family’s Adventures in Odyssey.

  11. Acolyte of Sagan says

    From the OP

    they know what you really think in your “heart of hearts”

    To paraphrase the late, great Carl Sagan, “I try not to think with my heart”.

  12. freehand says

    It’s not false gods they fear, it’s people who are happy and sane without any gods at all. The Muslims give them an enemy and purpose, but the unchurched terrify them. They must believe that we worship something, and know that (their) god is behind it all, because they must not admit that the alternative is possible.

    Gays not “knowing” that they are evil and shameful is just a particular example of this larger category.

  13. otrame says

    @5

    Modus. my love for you is growing, each and every day. I have always had a soft spot in my heart for a smart ass.

  14. Scott Hanley says

    In their heart of hearts, Christians don’t believe God is real.

    Evidence? If it’s only God who’s watching them, they’ll look at porn. If any people are watching them, they won’t.

  15. dogmeat says

    “You have bought into a lie, and you have messed with the occult enough to be blinded by Satan, and [are] unable to see the truth” (see, when he met me, he happened to notice that I was playing a card game that had pictures of wizards on the cards, so obviously I’m only a few steps away from summoning hellspawn and sacrificing babies to Moloch) and “Fall on your face and stop the rebellion.”

    I think he has it backwards. Gaming was used to help me quit the Satanistic human sacrifice bit. It was hard too, the seventh one is free and I’d put in all that time and effort, but a few games of Shadowrun and I no longer felt the urge to pop that baby in a blender. True story…

  16. Nomad says

    I have a feeling that two different psychologies are at work here, one for the “all atheists believe in god” thing and another for the “all gays hate themselves” thing.

    The atheism thing is simple. It’s a failure of imagination. It’s a mind that’s been so hemmed in by fundamentalist dogma that there’s no room to imagine not believing in the same things. So therefore they conclude that other people must believe as they do.

    The homosexuality thing is, I suspect, different. I feel like it’s more about people not wanting to feel like bigots. One of my guiding principles when trying to understand other people is that nobody thinks of themselves as evil. I may apply the term evil to people, but what I mean is that I find them evil because of the things they do or think. But I understand that they do not sit there twirling their mustaches and cackling to themselves.

    It’s a variant of why they have to believe that being gay is a choice. Because then it’s the gay person’s fault. They make them do this to them. Yes, victim blaming. It’s really a defensive strategy, it means that the person employing it has had a flash of insight onto what they’re doing and they have to rationalize it away. In this case it says “yeah, sure I hate them, but they hate themselves too, they actually agree with me, so that makes it okay”.

  17. khms says

    I have a feeling that two different psychologies are at work here, one for the “all atheists believe in god” thing and another for the “all gays hate themselves” thing.

    The atheism thing is simple. It’s a failure of imagination. […] So therefore they conclude that other people must believe as they do.

    The homosexuality thing is, I suspect, different. […] In this case it says “yeah, sure I hate them, but they hate themselves too, they actually agree with me, so that makes it okay”.

    So, actually, in both cases they think everyone’s mind works the same as theirs.

    As for motivations, I suspect it’s really a mix in both cases, lack of imagination, self-justification, and – probably at least as important for good little RWAs – that’s what they were told by authority figures.

  18. Levon Marcesant says

    In Don’t Sleep, There are Snakes, Daniel Everett reveals that
    missionary candidates were taught ‘You have to get them lost before you
    can get them saved’. Prospective converts have to be convinced that they
    are miserable sinners, no matter how content they might have been before
    you arrived to preach the gospel. It sounds like this guy is using the same
    playbook.

  19. anne mariehovgaard says

    “he’s some kind of super-Calvinist who believes that any denomination teaching that humans have free will is apostate” & “‘Fall on your face and stop the rebellion.’”
    Compare and contrast.</blockquote cite="

    Well if (unlike most Christians) you are fully aware that your god is a sadistic sociopath, and solve that problem by simply declaring that to be perfectly moral for a god, so you can worship him anyway… you don't have the best starting point.

  20. says

    @24:

    “Well if (unlike most Christians) you are fully aware that your god is a sadistic sociopath, and solve that problem by simply declaring that to be perfectly moral for a god, so you can worship him anyway… you don’t have the best starting point.”

    Well, maybe GOD has a place he can go, hang out with lesser and false gods, and do what HE wants, instead of what HIS flock wants him to do. Kinda like them Salt Lake City Morons do in Jackson Hole and other spots where there is a somewhat lower density of their people.

  21. hunter says

    Freehand @ 15 —

    No, it’s just people who are happy. In Christianity, happiness is reserved for dead people.

    Note to Ed: it’s a presumptuousness born of overweening arrogance. You forgot to mention the arrogance.

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