Quantcast

«

»

Jul 28 2013

CA Pastor To ‘Go Old Testament’ on Pro-Gay Preachers

Pastor Matt Brown of Riverside, California’s Sandals Church says he will refuse to go to any same-sex wedding, not only because he doesn’t approve of them but because he’ll “punch” and “go Old Testament” on any minister who performs such a wedding. After Jeremy Hooper flagged the video, the church decided to make it private, but he smartly kept a copy. If you can’t see the video below the fold, go here to watch it.

37 comments

Skip to comment form

  1. 1
    Trebuchet

    And who was going to invite him in the first place?

    Of course, any minute now he’s going to be forced to perform gay marriages at gunpoint, right?

  2. 2
    gertzedek

    And then said minister will “go legal system” on Pastor Brown, and he’ll be “convicted” of “assault and battery”.

  3. 3
    carolw

    What’s up with Rev. Dudebro? Back when I used to go to church, the minister wore vestments with a suit underneath. I can’t get used to these super-casual churches. It looks like everyone is about to go play beach volleyball after the service. Oh yeah, and this joker is an idiot. Love your gay neighbors, but don’t go to their weddings. His sermon comes off like a stand-up comedy routine, but not funny where he intended it.

  4. 4
    Larry

    Go old testament on him? What the fuck does that mean? He’s gonna turn everyone in the church into a pillar of salt?

  5. 5
    matty1

    “I’m a jerk sometimes”

    No? you don’t say

  6. 6
    tuibguy

    In all fairness, he recognizes that he has a mental problem and has decided to avoid the situation that will trigger his violent tendencies. He may be a sociopath, but at least he knows it, gertzedek.

  7. 7
    slc1

    Re carolw @ #3

    That’s Southern California. They’re pretty casual out there.

  8. 8
    raven

    but because he’ll “punch” and “go Old Testament” on any minister who performs such a wedding.

    I wouldn’t have a problem with that.

    1. They would just go all Modern Age California and Federal law on Pastor Matt Brown and charge him with assault, disorderly conduct, and a hate crime.

    Our society has a place for the Pastor Matt Browns of the world. It’s called “jail”.

    2. There are usually cameras at weddings. I’m sure the Youtube videos of Pastor Matt Brown acting like a rabid dog will be wildly popular and a great example of fundie xian induced mind damage.

    PS I notice other commenters i.e. gertzedek have drawn the same conclusion.

  9. 9
    matty1

    From the other side of the pulpit Desmond Tutu

    “I would refuse to go to a homophobic heaven. No, I would say sorry, I mean I would much rather go to the other place.”

  10. 10
    dingojack

    [shakes head] Bigots really can’t help themselves, can they? Guess it comes with the frontal lobe damage.
    Dingo
    ——–
    OBTW Pasta – lose the shorts, dude! Well, unless you plan to ‘zip along’ and form a ‘really funky’ christian rap band so you can ‘get down with the kidz’ (or some other exercise in lame futility).

  11. 11
    raven

    This is BTW, terrorism. Pastor Matt Brown is a xian terrorist!!!

    In most states, seems to me, Pastor Matt Brown might get shot and killed legally.

    Self defense, stand your ground, and various anti-terrorism laws and all that.

    I’ve got a question for Pastor Matt Brown.

    Do you feel lucky, kook? GO AHEAD, BEAT SOMEONE UP. MAKE OUR DAY!!!

  12. 12
    matty1

    I think it would only be criminal* if he actually did show up at a wedding and start beating people not when he just says he has the urge to. Especially when that is part of a larger talk about how he avoids weddings so he won’t be tempted to get violent. This is more like “If I ever went in a bank I’d try and rob it so I stay out of banks”. Crazy, sure but not illegal and not something that would trigger self defence.

    *Is terrorism the right word, I really don’t know?

  13. 13
    dingojack

    Just to clarify the above remark by Raven:
    Go ahead beat someone up!
    We’ll be the ones pointing at you as they arrest you, build the case against, try you, we’ll be the ones pointing and laughing at you as they convict you. & toss your sorry ass in jail.
    Have a nice life, bigot!
    Dingo
    ——–
    Ooops I mean ‘toss your sorry ass into jail. (Paging Dr. Freud!)

  14. 14
    TGAP Dad

    Go “old testament?” But I thought they LIKED getting stoned in California! *Rimshot*

  15. 15
    CaitieCat, in no way a robot nosireebot

    Actually, Trebuchet, I checked the Official Top Secret Homoislamofascist Agenda, and “Force all Christians to perform gay marriage at gunpoint” comes three down from “Impose shari’a only on Christians, because LULz”, right below “Take away all the patriots’ snugglebunnies guns”, and strangely, before “Violent Christians haz disinvited from mandatory gay weddings “.

    Did you not get a copy of the updated Agenda after the latest Illuminati Jamboree? I still say it was a mistake to get Ceiling Cat to take the notes.

  16. 16
    blf

    Go “old testament?” In that case, an iron chariot will see this fool off. Probably doesn’t even have to be the real thing, a simple sugar model on the wedding cake would be sufficient. Make sure to have enough so that everyone attending can have a food fight with this cupcake, bombarding him until he runs away. And then put on a silly French accent and fart in his general direction…

  17. 17
    exdrone

    I would tell this guy:

    We need to make sure that we learn to operate in a world that disagrees with our moral values …. you should go [to a same-sex wedding] and celebrate … it’s an opportunity to exercise love

    I wonder where I heard that from.

  18. 18
    matty1

    No even without the risk he will start attacking people those who oppose gay weddings should not attend them. At best they would make themselves unhappy at worst they would ruin it for other people. Let them stay at home and try and think about something else.

  19. 19
    bahrfeldt

    Larry- “Go old testament on him? What the fuck does that mean?”

    Only one god named Yahvah, childless. Observe dietary restrictions (no cheeseburgers, bacon, shrimp, crab or possum). Circumcision. Sabado = Sabbath (no days of the week named after Aesir or pagan Roman false deities). But especially, anyone who insults bald people gets eaten by bears.

  20. 20
    raven

    Larry- “Go old testament on him? What the fuck does that mean?”

    It means you throw rocks at people guilty of mostly trivial offenses that aren’t crimes today. Nonvirgin brides, disobedient children, gays, heretics, apostates, atheists, adulterers, sabbath breakers, false prophets etc..

    Until they are dead.

    It’s estimated that under Old Testament law, 99% of the US population, 297 million people would be murdered by the other 1% of the population.

  21. 21
    matty1

    Only one god named Yahvah, childless.

    But with a wife called Asherah and brother Baal.

    Also talking asses so we’re halfway there already.

  22. 22
    gertzedek

    @raven — To be fair, reading the Old Testament that way is kind of taking it out of context. These laws would’ve been enforced through a court system — originally probably by priests, later rabbis — and there was an appeal system set up in Deut. 17:8-13 (tr. JPS 1985):

    8 If a case is too baffling for you to decide, be it a controversy over homicide, civil law, or assault—matters of dispute in your courts—you shall promptly repair to the place that the Lord your God will have chosen, 9 and appear before the levitical priests, or the magistrate in charge at the time, and present your problem. When they have announced to you the verdict in the case, 10 you shall carry out the verdict that is announced to you from that place that the Lord chose, observing scrupulously all their instructions to you. 11 You shall act in accordance with the instructions given you and the ruling handed down to you; you must not deviate from the verdict that they announce to you either to the right or to the left. 12 Should a man act presumptuously and disregard the priest charged with serving there the Lord your God, or the magistrate, that man shall die. Thus you will sweep out evil from Israel: 13 all the people will hear and be afraid and will not act presumptuously again.

    (Apparently, they took contempt of court really seriously back then.)

    Reading the text and assuming that believers should go around randomly stoning perceived sinners would be like reading the US Code, finding that the penalty for treason is death, and deciding to just go shoot Obama because you think he’s a traitor.

    As far as I know, we don’t have any sources on the early Israelite justice system, but, per the Mishnah, by the late Second Temple period, a Sanhedrin (Jewish supreme court) that put a man to death every seven years would be considered “murderous”. (Compare that to Texas.) That’s partially because the standard of evidence was really high — you had to have two kosher witnesses testifying against you to be convicted. Even a confession wasn’t considered admissible in the absence of witnesses. And the witnesses had to tell the offenders that what they were doing was illegal and give them a chance to stop before they reported the crime. Basically, unless gay guys were actually having sex in front of two Orthodox Jewish men, they weren’t getting put to death.

    To be fair, yes, death and corporeal punishment are common punishments prescribed by the Torah. That’s largely because, at the time, imprisonment wasn’t an option — in an Iron-Age society, giving someone who could be farming free room and board was a really dumb idea. So you could fine criminals (a very common punishment, and even commoner as a substitute for non-death punishments), beat them, or kill them.

    (Sorry for the rant, BTW…I’m just kind of tired of people thinking of my ancestors as bloodthirsty barbarians. Well, any more than everyone in the ancient Near East was a bloodthirsty barbarian.)

    Interestingly, if one were to “go Old Testament” on Pastor Brown, were he to do this, he’d get off relatively light. Exodus 21:18-19 (also JPS 1985):

    18 When men quarrel and one strikes the other with stone or fist, and he does not die but has to take to his bed— 19 if he then gets up and walks outdoors upon his staff, the assailant shall go unpunished, except that he must pay for his idleness and his cure.

    So Pastor Brown would have to pay the guy’s hospital bills and compensate him for the work he missed. Assuming he takes two weeks to recover and the minister makes $45k/yr (a median salary for a minister), he’d be on the hook for $1800 plus medical expenses. And, considering that a simple emergency room visit can run $2000-$3000, Pastor Brown might be out several thousand bucks if we’re going by OT standards.

  23. 23
    Childermass

    raven @ 20: “It’s estimated that under Old Testament law, 99% of the US population, 297 million people would be murdered by the other 1% of the population.

    I don’t even think that 1% of 1% of 1% could be spared. That is ignoring that OT laws asks for some killing of those who have turned their back on God. If you not killing the infidels in your family are slaying those of a nearby city who have rejected God, you have turned your back on God…

  24. 24
    raven

    bcseweb.org Rushdooney:
    Our list may not be perfect but it seems to cover those “crimes” against the family that are inferred by Rushdoony’s statement to Moyers. The real frightening side of it is the interpretation of heresy, apostasy and idolatry. Rushdoony’s position seems to suggest that he would have anyone killed who disagreed with his religious opinions. That represents all but a tiny minority of people. Add to that death penalties for what is quite legal, blasphemy, not getting on with parents and working on a Sunday means that it the fantasy ideal world of Rushdoony and his pals, there will be an awful lot of mass murderers and amongst a tiny population.

    We have done figures for the UK which suggest that around 99% of the population would end up dead and the remainder would have each, on average, killed 500 fellow citizens.

    Chalcedon foundation bsceweb.org. Stoning disobedient children to death.Contempt for Parental Authority: Those who consider death as a horrible punishment here must realise that in such a case as
    ….cut for length
    Rev. William Einwechter, “Modern Issues in Biblical Perspective: Stoning Disobedient Children”, The Chalcedon Report, January 1999

    The current champions of biblical law are the fundie xian Dominionists. They argue seriously such things as just how disobedient your kid has to be before you kill him.

    I didn’t make up that 99% of the US population dead estimate. Some people with more time and interest than I have, actually ran the numbers.

    AFAWCT, biblical law never actually existed.

    1. The OT bible was written by Jerry Falwell and Glenn Beck clones. The religious kooks of their time. It’s all tribal propaganda, politics, and fiction.

    2. Any society that slaughters its people en masse for trivial reasons isn’t going to last. While they are busy with population reduction programs involving lots of rocks, the neighboring tribes would just walk in.

  25. 25
    jnorris

    Matt Brown would go ‘Old Testament” at a same-gender marriage (as if he would be invited). I thought his Sandals Church professed to be Christian. Must be a different Christ than the one I read about in the Gospels.

  26. 26
    d.c.wilson

    “2. Any society that slaughters its people en masse for trivial reasons isn’t going to last. While they are busy with population reduction programs involving lots of rocks, the neighboring tribes would just walk in.”

    Which is exactly what happened to the ancient Israelites. Several times. Ironically, their standard reaction was to berate the people for not enforcing the Law hard enough.

  27. 27
    theconductor

    I agree with this pastor. It amazes me that there are ministers that proclaim to believe in the bible and still perform gay marriage, even though the bible says in both the old and new testament that homosexuality is sin. Leviticus 8:22 says homosexuality is an abomination, and 1 Corinthians 6:9 says the practice of homosexuality is unrighteous.

    Would it be right to go “Old Testament” and punch the hypocritical minister? Of course not, and I’m sure this pastor would not do that.

  28. 28
    dingojack

    theconductor –
    The problem is that Leviticus says a whole bunch of things are ‘abominations’. That doesn’t stop ‘god-fearing’ xtians from completely ignoring them though. (That shirt wouldn’t be polyester/cotton by any chance?)
    If you’re gonna say one thing is an abomination, then they all are. Who are they to pick and choose which of the very words of their almighty god’ they should slavishly follow, and which they can safely ignore?
    I’d rather a pastor who at least pretends to have the courage of his own convictions.
    Dingo
    ——–
    OBTW What did Jesus say about homosexuality (rather than later forgeries merely attributed to early churchmen)?

  29. 29
    escuerd

    I once knew someone who was a lot like this preacher. After he got married and became very vocally opposed to marriage equality*, I refused to know him again, drunken, late-night begging notwithstanding. (Hey, it’s not really cheating if it’s with another man, amirite, brah?)

    Admittedly, I get tired of the tendency some have to accuse every homophobe of being a closeted gay person. Plenty of homophobes really are straight, after all. But then, plenty aren’t, and I’ll eat my hat if this guy doesn’t crave the cock. If I met this man in person in almost any other context, I would probably have just assumed he was gay unless some evidence arose that he was one of those occasional false-positives that pops up on the old gaydar.

    Sadly, this preacher’s superstition has convinced him that his sexuality is some sinful temptation that he must overcome. I would feel pity for him if that were as far as it went, but it’s not. Oh no, he has to really distance himself from it by constantly reminding everyone how wrong homosexuality is in the eyes of their deity. He isn’t content to let this be his own problem. He has to make his personal issues an issue for gay people who aren’t self-loathing closet cases. All I can feel for him is disgust.

    Bonus points for finding an awkward way to shoehorn in a reminder that he has a wife (just making sure they’re paying attention, that’s all).

    *At least according to our straight mutual friends who are and were unaware of his little secret, but of course he never broached the subject to my face.

  30. 30
    raven

    hypocritical xian troll and cafeteria xian:

    It amazes me that there are ministers that proclaim to believe in the bible and still perform gay marriage, even though the bible says in both the old and new testament that homosexuality is sin.

    The bible has a lot of rules.

    Xians ignore most of them. They are all without exception Cafeteria Xians.

    The Ten Commandments prohibits lying. Lying is though one of the major sacraments of fundie xian death cults. Creationism is a flat out lie and yet, you probably are a creationists.

    It gets worse. The OT bible has 613 laws and rules. You as a cafeteria xian probably don’t know most of them and follow fewer.

    Rules against eating pork, shellfish, getting tattoos, sowing two seeds in the same field, wearing mixed fabrics and wearing jewelry..

  31. 31
    caseloweraz

    Seems to me that if this preacher is really serious about “going old testament,” he’ll have to give up the shorts and start wearing sackcloth and ashes. I mean, he regards same-sex marriage as a national disgrace, right?

    (I guess he can keep the sandals though.)

  32. 32
    raven

    hypocritical xian troll and cafeteria xian:

    It amazes me that there are ministers that proclaim to believe in the bible and still perform gay marriage, even though the bible says in both the old and new testament that homosexuality is sin.

    The OT has 613 rules and laws.

    A lot of them are death penalty offenses for what are today, trivial, common, and not crimes.

    Among the death penalty offense are being norvirgin brides, adultery, disobedient children, blasphemy, heresy, apostasy, atheism, sabbath breaking, and false prophets.

    All xians are Cafeteria Xians who just pick and choose what to believe and which rules to follow. That is before they are hypocrites and ignore their own rules. Anyone following an OT lifestyle today would be doing multiple life sentences in prison. Warren Jeffs tried it and got life + 20 years.

    I’d ask Cafeteria Xian troll how he picks and chooses which rules to follow and ignore the vast majority. But he won’t have an answer and as an ex-xian, I know. They just make it up as they go along and claim to follow the bible without actually having any idea what the bible says.

    BTW, Cafeteria troll, the NT has some wacko rules too. Jesus recommends that men cut off their testicles if they can tolerate it. Xians just always ignore this one or lie about it. They never, ever follow jesus’s plain words on this one.

  33. 33
    raven

    613 commandments

    The 613 commandments (Hebrew: תרי”ג מצוות‎: taryag mitzvot, “613 Mitzvot”) is the number of mitzvot listed in the Torah, first codified by Rabbi Simlai in Talmud Makkot 23b.

    These principles of Biblical law are sometimes called connections or commandments (mitzvot) and referred to collectively as the “Law of Moses” (Torat Mosheh, תורת משה), “Mosaic Law,” “Sinaitic Law,” or simply “the Law”. The word mitzvot is plural; singular is mitzvah.

    For fans of bible trivia, Wikipedia has a list of the 613 commandments of the first 5 books of the bible.

    I got bored reading it in about 30 seconds.

    A few xians and Jews try to follow them. The vast majority of xians don’t even know they exist. The leaders just pick out a few to suit their own purposes and to tell their followers what to do.

  34. 34
    raven

    529.The creditor must not forcibly take collateral — Deut. 24:10
    530.Return the collateral to the debtor when needed — Deut. 24:13
    531.Not to delay its return when needed — Deut. 24:12
    532.Not to demand collateral from a widow — Deut. 24:17
    533.Not to demand as collateral utensils needed for preparing food — Deut. 24:6
    534.Not to lend with interest — Lev. 25:37
    535.Not to borrow with interest — Deut. 23:20

    The 613 commandments are a mixed bag.

    Some of them we regard as common sense or common law.

    Some of them we just ignore. A creditor may not forcibly take collateral. Tell that to the banks who foreclosed on people’s houses by the hundreds of thousands during the Great Recession. Supposedly banks can’t lend with interest. Well, there goes the banking and mortgage industries.

    And oh yeah, you can’t use a pan or kettle as collateral for a loan. No wonder the USA is in trouble with the Sky Fairy.

  35. 35
    gridlore

    Sad thing is, right up until that Old Testament comment, he had it right. “I don’t like it, so I’m not going to participate.”

  36. 36
    democommie

    “Of course, any minute now he’s going to be forced to perform gay marriages at gunpoint, right?”

    And will he be forced to wear a gimp suit, GOD, I hope so!

    “I’m a jerk sometimes”

    NOT sometimes, asswipe.

    “*Is terrorism the right word, I really don’t know?”

    No. FOMENTING terrorism is more what cowardly fucks like Rev. Walkingshorts do.

    “It’s estimated that under Old Testament law, 99% of the US population, 297 million people would be murdered by the other 1% of the population.”

    More likely outcome; 1% of U.S. population murdered by fundies, then the fundies would be murdered by the 96% who had survived the initial attack. The Yule Tree of Paganism must needs be watered, from time to time, with the blood of unbelievers.

    “Who are they to pick and choose which of the very words of their almighty god’ they should slavishly follow,”

    THEY are KKKristians. Besides, I’ve eaten shrimp, worn mixed fibers and made burnt (well, maybe not “burnt”, more like Medium-rare) offerings on the Sabbath. None of those are anything like ickybuttseks!

    @ theconductor:

    You’re allowed to hate. We’re allowed to make fun of you and call you a fucking bigot, you fucking bigot.

  37. 37
    democommie

    Math rong@36. Should be 98% of population remaining who would go all “Old Testament” on the KKKristians.

Leave a Reply

Switch to our mobile site