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Jul 04 2013

Barton: Gays Will Join Military Just to Get Married

David Barton continued his dishonest and irrational tirade against the Supreme Court’s marriage equality rulings, adding a new argument to the lies he’s already told: Gay people are going to join the military just so they can get married.

Barton, speaking on Wallbuilders Live today, suggested that gays and lesbians will now enlist in the armed forces just to get hitched: “Now that there is no longer a definition of marriage as a man and a woman and DOMA’s struck down, guess what? Guess what happens in the military? Guess what is going to happen in the military? Guess who is going to enlist in the military just so they can have gay marriages and force chaplains to do that?”

Oooh, I’ll guess — no one. Absolutely no one. And even if they did, the DOMA ruling has absolutely nothing to do with forcing chaplains to perform same-sex marriages (something the law quite explicitly forbids). The DOMA ruling only involves federal recognition of same-sex marriages performed in states that allow it. There still is no federal law saying that they have to be allowed. And chaplains are covered by the same ministerial exception that a civilian pastor is. They cannot be forced to perform any marriage.

51 comments

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  1. 1
    matty1

    What is this obsession with Pastors being forced to conduct same sex weddings? Those gay couples who want a religious ceremony will surely find a church that welcomes them, or is there a big desire to get married while surrounded by people who hate you with an officiant who is being forced to say the words?

    “I now pronounce you.. I can’t, please don’t make me say it”
    “It’s this or the homo prison camp reverend”

  2. 2
    Randomfactor

    And even if the chaplain were happy to solemnize the marriage, it would STILL have to be legal in the state where it is performed. Which would mean they wouldn’t have had to enlist to do it.

  3. 3
    dingojack

    If one gets married in the military is it under Federal law? I mean, I’m not entirely sure, but I think that Afghanistan isn’t a state that recognises same-sex marriages (but I could be wrong about that).
    Dingo

  4. 4
    Anthony K

    What is this obsession with Pastors being forced to conduct same sex weddings?

    Really. I mean, we have laws forbidding the fucking of children, yet that doesn’t seem to impact the behaviour of the clergy whatsoever.

  5. 5
    Don Williams

    Maybe Mr Barton is worried that the gays will compete with all those Neocon Chickenhawks, Bush Family Scions, and sons of Republican Senators that are queued up to join and do a tour overseas.

    I don’t know if the Army can promote colonels fast enough to manage this tsunami of Republican flag-waving patriots pushing to get into its combat units.

  6. 6
    Don Williams

    Correction: Post 5 should have read “Republican flag-waving PUNDITS pushing to get into its combat units.”

  7. 7
    dingojack

    We wouldn’t want those nasty gheys to find out what ‘eviscerate’ means, eh Don?
    ;) Dingo

  8. 8
    slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #5

    It should be pointed out that 3 of the 4 candidates in 2008 had sons serving in Iraq, namely Biden, McCain, and Palin. Obama’s kids are too young.

  9. 9
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Silly question. How many straight couples join the military so that they can get married.

    Why join the military to get married if one can get married without joining?

    Shit, it is only David Barton. Not need to expect logic. Their is fear to be sold to his followers!

  10. 10
    thomasmorris

    Wow, they’re really grasping.

    I love watching fundamentalist types attempting to outdo each other as they try to imagine the “horrifying” (but weirdly insignificant to any rational person) “consequences” of these laws – each proposed scenario even more ridiculous than the last. (“You see, you see – gays are going to join the military just to get married! And this is going to be a major trend that’s worth predicting and commenting on! Yes! That makes perfect sense!”)

  11. 11
    sigurd jorsalfar

    And here I’ve been all this time thinking the reason gay people were joining the military in droves was for the fabulous wardrobe.

  12. 12
    dingojack

    If I were a gay man considering marriage which would I choose:
    a) Join up. Get sent to some shithole. Risk getting maimed, psychologically damaged. or even killed. Get married. Have a one day honeymoon involving fire-fights and IED’s ?
    b) Don’t join up. Go to somewhere that’s more convenient, with better facilities and is easier for my friends and family to get to, such as LA or NY (say). Get married. Have a really great honeymoon somewhere romantic ?
    Decisions, decisions…..
    @@
    Dingo

  13. 13
    Michael Brew

    Fundies like pretending everyone who identifies as Christian must hold the same prejudices they do.

  14. 14
    Teve Tory

    “What is this obsession with Pastors being forced to conduct same sex weddings?”

    Since gay marriage doesn’t actually harm them in any way, they have to manufacture some fake harm.

  15. 15
    A. Noyd

    If it took joining the military to get married and gay folks valued marriage so much they were willing to risk their lives, bodies and sanity to do it, why the everloving fuck wouldn’t we honor them for that?

  16. 16
    emc2

    Janine @9:

    Probably not join just to get married, but I have seen way too many get married after joining just so they can get some extra benefits. Those types of marriages rarely last very long.

  17. 17
    eric

    Projection. They would interfere in other people’s lives and make them do things against their will, so they assume other people would too.

  18. 18
    John Pieret

    Duh! Gay people will join the military just to force chaplins to marry them? Besides the fact that they can’t do that, what kind of morons would put themselves in harms way to make an obscure political point? Oh, wait a minute, obscure political points are all the homophobes hace!

  19. 19
    Don Williams

    Could someone send David Barton an email pointing out that there should be a net increase in combat readiness:

    a) the accidental pregnancy option to avoid combat doesn’t really work for gays
    b) Nor does the toe-shooting option — because it would prevent them from dancing in the
    nightclubs.

  20. 20
    cottonnero

    At some point, Barton will lament falling military enlistment numbers with no sense of irony whatever.

  21. 21
    busterggi

    Next thing you know people will join the military because it provides employment or because it provides life-time health care or because of the potential educational benefits or other nefarious reasons.

  22. 22
    Don Williams

    Re SLC at 8:

    1) I was remembering the Bush Military Tradition of falling back and defending Austin Texas from Ho Chi Minh’s
    Air Force.
    2) Or Bill Clinton’s “I’m going to Oxford” get out of jail card.
    3) Or many the Cheney “I’ve got better things to do” decoration.

  23. 23
    dingojack

    Don – to be fair, Cheney’s decoration came with absolutely fabulousa Wingnut clusters.
    How could he resist?
    Dingo

  24. 24
    dingojack

    One would have said ‘to die for’ – but we are talking about a class-A chickenhawk.
    Dingo

  25. 25
    anubisprime

    It is a mirror reaction of Musca domestica after a rather thorough drenching in DDT, even down to the jerky , on their back, gasping, twitching, vibrating and choking.

    The religiotards and flakies are literally shaking their brains apart to find some snippet, some angle, some loosely cogent logic to cling to, and fail miserably…they seem to be giving up totally the attempt to be anywhere, in any position, to any degree, to be actually even vaguely coherent in their grief.

    They have not conjured one single floppy eared bunny of a valid point out of the top hat of their bitter disappointment.

    But they are providing excellent and awesome entertainment in their death throes.

    Just smile and wave guys…just smile and wave!!

  26. 26
    democommie

    It took a while for me to find it but I finally did find my ORIGINAL mimeographed photocopy of Thomas Jefferson’s final draft of the Constitution. It’s a little hard to make out in some spots (Tom was into the scuppernong when he wrote that thing) but I was able to find a bit that read:

    “…someday, some douchebag will bring up some kind of nonsense about me being religious and GOD hatin’ teh GAY; bullshit on both counts…). There was more but it was sorta blurry and written in the margins, with a “Sharple(tm)”. True story.

  27. 27
    kantalope

    Barton graduated high school in 1972…no mention of service in Vietnam…wonder how that happened? Probably didn’t know, at the time, that he could get married while serving so didn’t join up.

  28. 28
    tbp1

    I’m not sure, but in most cases wouldn’t it be easier just to move to state where same-sex marriage is legal? Joining the military is a pretty drastic step…

  29. 29
    Don Williams

    democommie at 26: ” ORIGINAL mimeographed photocopy of Thomas Jefferson’s final draft of the Constitution.”

    1) Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence — Alexander Hamilton and the other whores of the Rich like Rufus King arranged for Jefferson to be sent to Paris before mounting their illegal conspiracy to subvert the American Revolution and overturn the Articles of Confederation. What Aedanus Burke called “the Late Remarkable [SECOND] Revolution in Government”.

    http://ojs.libraries.psu.edu/index.php/pmhb/article/view/44288/44009
    (Click on “Download this PDF file” at bottom )

    James Madison and the guys at the Constitutional Convention here in Philly wrote the Constitution. As a way to respond to Shay’s Rebellion and the Rabble threatening bankers and other “men of property” by setting up a veiled oligarchy.

  30. 30
    Don Williams

    Of course, Brad Pitt argues that it would have made no difference even if Jefferson had been here:

  31. 31
    williamhumenansky

    “They have not conjured one single floppy eared bunny of a valid point out of the top hat of their bitter disappointment”

    But they’ve managed to pull a lot out of their asses..

  32. 32
    slc1

    Re Kantalope @ #27

    I(f Barton turned 18 in 1972, he would have been subject to revised draft rules that were based on birth date. If he had a draft number higher then 100, he probably would not have been drafted (my draft number was 339, meaning that the Red Army would have to be poised to invade the US from Baja California before I would have been drafted).

    Re Don Willi8ams @ #29

    Oh boy, another Don Williams conspiracy theory. He never runs out of them.

  33. 33
    Lofty

    Of course Barton knows that if a young, gullible, devout martyr goes on a religious war and gets killed, his chance of being able to enter the pearly gates will be totes destroyed if he gets cooties off a ghey standing in line behind him.

  34. 34
    Don Williams

    SLC at 32: “Another Don Williams conspiracy theory. He never runs out of them”

    1) Yep. Here’s another one — from John Mercer of Maryland. Writing circa 1788 in opposition to the
    proposed new Constitution:

    “When we turn our eyes back to the zones of blood and desolation which we have waded through to separate from Great Britain, we behold with manly indignation that our blood and treasure have been wasted to establish a government in which the interest of the few is preferred to the rights of the many.”

    http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/antifederalist-paper-60
    2) Obviously untrue, right?

    http://currydemocrats.org/in_perspective/cumulative_change_in_real_household_income.png

  35. 35
    dan4

    @25: “The…flakies….”

    Coming from anubisprime, that reads not as a criticism, but as a compliment.

  36. 36
    felidae

    Mr Barton, would it be too much to ask for you to build your damn wall, retreat behind it with your silly fantasies and leave the rest of us alone?

  37. 37
    d.c.wilson

    Now that there is no longer a definition of marriage as a man and a woman

    Funny how we didn’t have such a definition before 1996 and the world didn’t come to an end.

  38. 38
    usna1960

    There could be an up side to this if it came to pass which it won’t … maybe then we could get rid of those so-called Christian evangelical “amerikan taliban” chaplains and others of their ilk who object ! The service would be far better off, as would the troops and the country ! Oh, and this is simply more proof of the fact that david barton is a complete ass hole !

  39. 39
    democommie

    slc1:

    Poor Dondi, he was finally able to catch me saying something that he could actually address. He seems not to understand jokes; odd, seeing that he’s been one for years.

    Hey, Donny. Have a look at this one;

    http://us.search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=vmn&type=zg-search.startnow.com-1_0-zg-rp-rp&p=Travis+bickle%27s+soliloquy

    it’s Bobby DeNiro ACTING a role; sorta like what Brad Pitt is doing in that video you referenced.

    Pro tip: Professional actors, working from a script might NOT be that person in real life. In some case they might be doing the same thing as they would in real life. Like, say for instance, you were in a movie and acted like an asshole. I would see that as art imitating life.

  40. 40
    dingojack

    Hey Don – Did you know that Dan Ackroyd, Bill Murray, Ernie Hudson and Harold Ramis once toasted a giant StayPuft Marshmallow Man in downtown Manhattan?
    True story!
    Dingo

  41. 41
    slc1

    Re democommie @ #39

    Case in point, actor Robert Ryan who often played conservative military types and racists in his movies. In his real life, he was a liberal Democrat and anything but a racist.

    Another case in point, Judy Holliday, who usually played dumb blonds in her movies. In real life, Holliday, who had an IQ of 170, was anything but a dumb blond.

  42. 42
    slc1

    Re Don Williams

    Actually, most of the opposition to the Constitution was due to it being considered a godless document by the clergy at the time. Considering the influence of James Madison,who was a staunch critic of organized religion in general and Christianity in particular, the secularism of the document is not at all surprising . Some of Barton’s biggest lies, as documented by Brayton and Freethoughtblogs’ Chris Rodda are his attempts to attribute biblical origins to the Constitution.

  43. 43
    Don Williams

    Slc at 42: ” Considering the influence of James Madison,who was a staunch critic of organized religion in general and Christianity in particular, the secularism of the document is not at all surprising . ”

    1) Actually, the secularism might have had another source. As James Madison himself noted:
    “I have for some time … been a pensioner on the favor of Haym Salomon, a Jew broker.”

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jewish/salomon.asp

    2) Of course, wealthy Heym Salomon died bankrupt from supporting the founder of the Democratic Party.
    You listening out there , Haim Saban? I’m giving you pearls here.

    3) The Constitution does have some enlightened clauses for the time. For example, Article 6:
    ” no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

    You just can’t buy secularism of that quality. heh heh

    4) Heym Salomon’s bigger contribution was convincing some financiers in Europe to not loan King George III the money he needed to prosecute the war. While that may have been motivated by the idea of America as a refuge from European anti-Semitism — and by Admiral Rodney sodomizing those merchants down in St Eustatis — Heym’s contribution to American victory was significant.

    My favorite Founder, James Wilkinson, noted that “The world runs on self-interest and anyone who doesn’t realize that is a fool.” At the time Salomon was working for the cause, gentile merchants here in Philly were trading with the British enemy and trying to pimp their daughters to the British officers. John Adams noted that one third of the People supported the Patriots, One third supported King George, and one third wanted to be left alone.

  44. 44
    democommie

    “) Actually, the secularism might have had another source. As James Madison himself noted:
    “I have for some time … been a pensioner on the favor of Haym Salomon, a Jew broker.” ”

    slc1 had it right a few blogthreads back when he made note of Dong’s reflexive anti-Semitism. Now, Donfuck, before you go all foamymouthin’, I am one of those people who disagrees with slc1 on the subject of middle-eastern problems and how to deal with them (although I see scant reason to further argue the points–neither of us will be changing his mind), but your joohatin’ would be laughable if it weren’t so fucking stupid and dangerous.

  45. 45
    caseloweraz

    Ed: …the DOMA ruling has absolutely nothing to do with forcing chaplains to perform same-sex marriages (something the law quite explicitly forbids).”

    That’s what the “SUPCO” wants us to believe, Ed. But it’s really just the camel’s nose under the tent on the slippery slope to total perversion. Just like the DEM-proposed gun registration law that only SEEMED to forbid keeping gun registration records! What ya gonna trust — words on a page, or David Barton’s gut?

  46. 46
    caseloweraz

    Uh. Cancel italics.

  47. 47
    slc1

    Re democommie @ #44

    How can ole Don be antisemitic, his son rushed a Jewish fraternity as a freshman in college?

  48. 48
    democommie

    @47:

    Don could be a SEMITE and be anti-semetic, he wouldn’t be the first.

  49. 49
    Don Williams

    slc at 47:

    You left out the possibility that he did it just to piss his father off.

    demo at 48:

    And you could be a horse’s ass and a donkey rider –you wouldn’t be the first.

  50. 50
    Don Williams

    PS “Donkey Rider” is my term for supporters of Democratic politicans who have a disgusting sexual habit.
    Lot at 43 again and tell me who I am critical of.

  51. 51
    slc1

    Re democommie @ #48

    You mean like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein.

    Re Don Williams @ #49

    If ole Don was helping paying the freight, that doesn’t seem like a wise course of action.

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