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Swanson Explains the Colorado Wildfires

Colorado Springs, a hotbed of the Christian right, is being threatened by some terrible wildfires, so naturally that leaves wingnuts like Kevin Swanson and Dave Buehner with the need to explain why God would send such destruction. I’m sure you’ll be shocked to find out it’s all the fault of women’s rights and the gays. Isn’t it always?

Buehner: Why Colorado Springs? Understand that Colorado itself is a state that has been begging for God’s judgment. How did we do that? Well, we were the first state to make abortion legal; you could murder your baby as long as it’s in your womb.

Swanson: 1967.

Buehner: Gov. Love, a Republican.

Swanson: Two ironies there, not just one, the man’s name was Gov. Love and he’s responsible for killing more babies than probably anybody in the history of this country because he’s the guy who started it.

Buehner: Our legislative session opened up this year and their very first order of business, their most pressing order of business—

Swanson: They could hardly wait, they could hardly wait.

Buehner: Like the very first day, was to pass a civil union bill, which is an uncivil bill.

Swanson: When you have a state where the House leadership is performing a homosexual act on the front page of the Denver Post two months ago? Does God read the Denver Post? Do you think He picks up a copy of the Denver Post? He gets it. God gets the Denver Post.

And of course, because women wear pants.

Buehner: Colorado is asking for judgment and God is delivering it in little pieces. He is very gracious that He hasn’t destroyed the whole state yet; I think that’s an act of grace. But then the question is: of all of Colorado, why Colorado Springs? I mean, Colorado Springs is the Christian mecca. Why not wipe out Boulder or Denver? I mean those people are in more radical rebellion.

Swanson: Oh yeah, they’re Democrats up there.

Buehner: And the answer is: judgment begins in the House of God.

Swanson: Coming back from Australia, I’m stuck in fourteen hours of these visual presentations, sitcoms and stuff, on seventeen screens in front of me and I’ve never seen so many breasts in all of my life. The immodesty going on in our society is far worse than it was back when Cheers, Family Ties and The Cosby Show was playing. I mean every form of aberrant sexuality and women’s breasts are shown in front of me almost nonstop for fourteen hours. It’s just such an oppressive, horrible, horrible world and so many of our young girls in our Christian churches are running down to Wal-Mart and buying the same clothes. These are the sorts of things that I’m bringing out in front of God’s people, I’m saying: how are we going to repent of the sexual sin that is paraded in front of us in the wider culture? Why do we have to submit to theses sexual sins again and again?

I brought up androgyny and how many young boys are running out and doing the metrosexual thing with the skinny pants and the little fairy shoes. They’re working on the gender blender for themselves and they don’t want to look like a man and God is just so upset, He hates it when man are not manly in their approach. 1 Corinthians 6 speaks about homosexuality and feminine behavior and feminine dress for men. God does not want men to be androgynous and feminine like in their approach; He gave them facial hair for a reason.

These are the sorts of things that I preached yesterday because I said, you could just say, ‘well all of the unisex, homosexual, metrosexual stuff that’s out in the world is so bad but we’re not going to repent of anything, we’re not going to look any different, we’re not going to bear any fruits of repentance in the way that we dress and the way that we interact.’ Then I brought out the whole thing on feminism and how feminism has corrupted our women today. I brought out this quote from Forbes magazine, July 27, 2012:

It’s hard to deny the key role that fashion has played in the women’s movement…Ms. Magazine points to New York City women garment workers in the early 20th century who wore hats to signify that they were earning their own money, and thus financially independent. Women in the 1980s adopted a male style of dress—ties, tailored skirt suits, shoulder pads—in order to gain a foothold in the male dominated world of business. And Carol Moseley Braun, the first African American woman elected to the U.S. Senate, wore a pantsuit on the Senate floor in 1993, ending the Senate’s ban on women wearing slacks there.

My question was: Do you resist feminist trends? Do you argue with it? Do you find ways to oppose it? Or do you just succumb to it and just kowtow to feminism? Dave, I’m afraid this stuff is all over the place in our nice little evangelical, reformed, conservative, fundamentalist churches.

Buehner: Kevin my main text this last Lord’s Day: God is a consuming fire.

The world must be such a frightening place to people like this, every moment one of abject terror as they worry that God is going to destroy them for even something as irrelevant as women wearing pants. Look, I hate skinny jeans as much as the next guy — but I don’t think the world is going to be destroyed because of them.

Comments

  1. raven says

    The simplest explanation is that god hates fundie xians like Swanson and Buehner.

    If Colorado Springs wants to survive, they should ask them to move to Oklahoma, Alabama and Mississippi.

    Then they could help the fundies already there attract even more of god’s hurricanes and tornodoes.

  2. Anthony K says

    Wait, wait, wait…so if a liberal like me commits a sin, God kills or devastates a Christian in response?

    Ironically, this appears to be the answer to several of younger me’s prayers all at once.

  3. flybywire says

    So they think that they are being punished for others actions, and not because their God is perhaps mad at them for opposing this?

    If i were a god, I’d want smarter followers.

  4. matty1 says

    Cheers, Family Ties and The Cosby Show was playing. I mean every form of aberrant sexuality and women’s breasts are shown in front of me almost nonstop for fourteen hours.

    Really those shows have every form of aberrant sexuality? If you’ll excuse me I’m just going to order some DVD’s for research purposes.

  5. eamick says

    When you have a state where the House leadership is performing a homosexual act on the front page of the Denver Post two months ago?

    I take it this “homosexual act” was a same-sex kiss?

  6. matty1 says

    Yep this homosexual act, two men barely touching lips. Ed’s right it must be terrifying to believe this shit.

  7. LightningRose says

    “Colorado Springs, a hotbed of the Christian right, is being threatened by some terrible wildfires”

    Dude, I’m in the Springs, you’re about 3 weeks out of date.

  8. machintelligence says

    earmick @ 5
    You got it right.
    It never fails to amaze me how an omnipotent, omniscient deity could have such shitty aim.
    I recall a golfing joke with this as the punch line.

  9. lldayo says

    Judging by his fear of DA BOOBEEZ!! it looks like this guy seems to have some pent up homosexual frustrations running rampant.

  10. otrame says

    Yep this homosexual act, two men barely touching lips. Ed’s right it must be terrifying to believe this shit.

    If that kiss upset them, do you think this one would make their heads asplode? (skip to 2:44 if you want to cut to the kiss–I don’t know how to just show the end of this)

  11. CaitieCat says

    Oh, can we please leave the all-homophobes-are-really-gay trope out? Please? It’s a nasty, nasty way of blaming queerfolk for our own oppression, and disavowing any responsibility for the almost-certainly-hetero people who are doing it.

  12. CaitieCat says

    Okay, so it did cut to the kiss. Live and learn

    Yeah, your URL has a timecode in it: t=164s.

  13. Acolyte of Sagan says

    #4, matty1, I think you misread that part. (emphasis mine)

    I’m stuck in fourteen hours of these visual presentations, sitcoms and stuff, on seventeen screens in front of me and I’ve never seen so many breasts in all of my life. I mean every form of aberrant sexuality and women’s breasts are shown in front of me almost nonstop for fourteen hours. The immodesty going on in our society is far worse than it was back when Cheers, Family Ties and The Cosby Show was playing.

    Just trying to save you money and time :-)

  14. Nick Gotts says

    and God is just so upset, He hates it when man are not manly in their approach

    I hear he’s threatening to hold his breath until all the trousers are on the right (in the sense of correct) legs, and all hair is cut in approved gender-specific styles.

  15. magistramarla says

    Here’s a great example of how these fundies act:
    My daughter always leaves my grandson’s haircuts to the ex, since he claims that it’s their bonding time.
    Well, the ex hadn’t taken the boy to the barber shop yet this summer, and he started to complain about how hot he felt and wanted a haircut, so she took him. The boy saw a picture of a cool looking mohawk and asked for that. My daughter told him that it would be OK for the summer, but would need to be trimmed when school started, which was agreed upon.
    The authoritarian ex got back from vacation and blew a gasket as soon as he saw the boy. He started saying that it was totally unacceptable and that they would be going straight to the barber shop. The confused little eight year old boy burst into tears.
    When my very upset daughter called me, I pointed out that the boy would remember this and other things about his father, and in a few years, he would discover that he has a choice to not spend time at his house.

  16. raven says

    When my very upset daughter called me, I pointed out that the boy would remember this and other things about his father, and in a few years, he would discover that he has a choice to not spend time at his house.

    And in a few decades, the son will be in a position to choose his dad’s nursing home!!!

    While this is sort of a joke, there is some truth in it. As a boomer with boomer age friends and relatives, we are now in positions where our parents rely on us, not the other way around.

  17. magistramarla says

    Raven,
    You are very right, my friend. My mother was authoritarian and abusive to me, and when she had dementia, I was the one who had to place her in a nursing home. I made sure that she was clean and safe, and that was the extent of it. When she was dying in a Catholic hospital, the doc tried to guilt me into defying her living will to place a feeding tube. I refused, not only because I agreed with the living will, but also because I really didn’t care about her all that much to even feel guilty.
    I have the feeling that my grandson will feel the same way about his father someday. This is the guy who once called me an “aging hippy”. I replied, “Yep, I resemble that remark”.
    I also think that my daughter’s fiancee is already stepping in to be the respected father-figure in that boy’s life. The jerk is going to someday wonder why he isn’t welcome in his son’s life.

  18. Karen Locke says

    Actually the fire is to punish my nephew and his family for being either liberal Christians or Humanists (not sure of where they are on that spectrum now). Oh, wait, the fire is on the other side of Colorado Springs. God missed again… or perhaps he was aiming at San Francisco.

  19. says

    He’s right. I was on that flight. He forgot to mention the really creepy thing, though. There was this perv who wouldn’t stop peeping over the top of seat.

  20. busterggi says

    “we were the first state to make abortion legal; you could murder your baby as long as it’s in your womb.
    Swanson: 1967.”

    It took god 55 years to start a fire???? Hasn’t he ever watched Suvivorman?

    “a male style of dress—ties, tailored … suits, shoulder pads”

    I do not recall this being the style of clothing in 1st century Palestine/Judea – every one, including Jesus if he existed, wore press much dresses.

  21. says

    I wonder how one determines what is acceptably masculine as far as clothing goes. Is a male Scottish kilt acceptable wear for a Christian man? How about tights, which were common wear for men in European cultures at one point. Could a modern Christian man wear them without worrying about God smiting him? He didn’t seem to do much smiting when they were popular, but maybe he’s changed his mind.

  22. jameshanley says

    I mean every form of aberrant sexuality and women’s breasts are shown in front of me almost nonstop for fourteen hours.

    What airline was that again? I really have to stop flying Air Emirates–the hallal food is good, and the service is great, but they’re not showing any boobs.

    I brought up androgyny and how many young boys are running out and doing the metrosexual thing with the skinny pants and the little fairy shoes.

    “And lo in that day the men forsook their fat pants and brogans to dress like hussies.” Leviticus something: something.

    Of course if the girls wear those tight skinny jeans they’re sluts for not hiding their figures. If these men of God aren’t wearing dresses, er robes, they’re a bunch of blasphemous apostates ripe for a Sodomite style destruction.

  23. Jen says

    I’ve figured it out. It’s proof that God is made in MAN’S image, not the other way around. God isn’t upset over androgyny, SWANSON is. He’s set himself up as the person who tells everyone what God thinks, but it’s what HE thinks, not God. These authoritarian types think that they know the only way the world is supposed to work, and they rail against everything they don’t agree with, using God as their cover.

  24. iknklast says

    What an interesting change. They used to blame all the fires on environmentalists.

  25. eava says

    Can someone please explain to me what God’s punishment should have been for slavery in this country, you know owning other people and treating them like chattel? And I think Mr. Swanson’s head would explode at the thought of what was done to slaves sexually by their god-fearing christian owners. Seriously, if god didn’t wipe this country off the face of the earth for slavery, we are going to get a pass for being nice to gay people.

  26. dingojack says

    CattleCat (#12) – I’m guessing that Teddy Haggard, George Rekers, Alan Chambers et al.* didn’t get the memo on the subject of why being a virulently homophobic Wingnut and gay at the same time, is now a terribly unPC faux pas. Perhaps as Grand High Arbiter of All Internet Memes you should re-send it.
    Dingo
    ——–
    * Just following the evidence….

  27. dingojack says

    How rude of me to point out a pattern of behaviour that contradicts your nice comfortable meme.
    How very dare I !
    Dingo

  28. CaitieCat says

    Not at all. It’s clear you dare because to you, it’s more important to maintain your ability to try and blame gay people for the abuse we take from homophobic assholes than it is to actually listen to us. That’s being an asshole.

    Insisting that every time someone expresses a homophobic thing it means they’re secretly gay is a nasty, insidious piece of victim-blaming, saying we’re responsible for the shit that we’re put through by heterosupremacists. What’s next? “Stop hitting yourself”?

    And all you’ve got in response is “how unPC”? You always party like it’s 1989, Limbaugh Jr?

    Being. An. Asshole.

  29. Akira MacKenzie says

    Anthony K @ 2

    Of course! God will get around to punishing the liberal with damnation and Hellfire later. In the meantime, he has to straighten out the Christian for falling down on the job by not successfully converting, censoring, or killing the leftist blasphemer and potentially turn people (especially the children) away from The Lawd.

  30. Chiroptera says

    Akira MacKenzie, #37:

    Yeah, I’ve heard that one, too, from Christianists. That makes Christians sound like the minions of the evil overlord of a bad movie: “You have failed me for the last time.”

  31. kermit. says

    CaitieCat Not at all. It’s clear you dare because to you, it’s more important to maintain your ability to try and blame gay people for the abuse we take from homophobic assholes than it is to actually listen to us. That’s being an asshole.
    .
    Maybe – in some cases – it is not that gays are to blame for asshole homophobes, but rather that bigoted Fundamentalist upbringings will turn natural gays (or anyone else) into assholes. The 5% or so of kids born into those households who are gay or bisexual will absolutely deny to themselves that they are gay, and will be, I think, more prone to deny it most vociferously. This environment shapes most kids raised in it to be seriously unpleasant and unhappy in a number of ways. It is natural for people raised to feel guilty and see themselves as imperfect to focus on their biggest flaw (whether or not they can admit it to themselves).
    .
    If a higher percentage of religious homophobes turn out to be gay than the general population, I can guarantee that they didn’t join up as teenagers or adults. Instead, they are damaged goods because of the way they were raised from infancy. I’d be surprised if any regulars here thought otherwise.

  32. dogmeat says

    Insisting that every time someone expresses a homophobic thing it means they’re secretly gay is a nasty, insidious piece of victim-blaming, saying we’re responsible for the shit that we’re put through by heterosupremacists. What’s next? “Stop hitting yourself”?

    CaitieCat,

    I don’t think that’s what Dingo or anyone else here is doing. Rather than pointing to the homosexuality as a drive for their vile behavior, it appears to be self loathing that drives their virulent homophobic behavior. Self loathing isn’t limited to any group of people.

    Also, Dingo (like a few others) was pointing out evidence that your argument is somewhat flawed (at best). A lot of virulent homophobes seem to be overly obsessed with commonly male on male homosexual sex. They seem to utterly ignore the questions of rights, equality, care and concern for another person and focus on “buttsex…ewww.” Personally I don’t tend to focus on the sexual aspect of other people’s relationships whether state or same-sex; I don’t really tend to think about that sort of thing unless someone makes a comment that draws my attention to it. These folks seem to spend an inordinate amount of time fixated on sex. Now it could be because they’re dehumanizing the targets of their venom, but that doesn’t preclude the “forbidden fruit” argument either.

    People who struggle with who they are often lash out at whatever aspect of their lives they find unacceptable. Minorities who join organizations that suppress the rights of minorities, women who advocate for second class citizenship for their own gender, the concept isn’t limited to the question of sexual orientation.

  33. dogmeat says

    whether state or same-sex;

    No idea where “state” came from, brain glitch, rebooting…

    Should read “whether opposite or same-sex…”

  34. CaitieCat says

    A lot of virulent homophobes seem to be overly obsessed with commonly male on male homosexual sex.

    Confirmation bias. Markedness. While you’re telling me about how illogical I am, consider looking those up, and your statement above, and how they might affect the truth value of it.

    Consider, too, that as someone who’s been actively and publicly a queer rights activist for 20 years, I might have a slightly more detailed knowledge of who “most homophobes” are than the people for whom it’s an interesting intellectual diversion, rather than a question of being able to live decently. I’m pretty sure the people who phoned me with the death threats and the rape threats and the ‘we’ll rape you to death” threats weren’t uniformly secretly gay, or even more than 5% or so, if as much as that.

    You’re the ones making extraordinary assertions – that there are more gay people who are virulently homophobic would be expected by prevalence in the population. Why do I need to prove the null hypothesis? Is there room in any of your mighty logical brains for the possibility you just might not know as much about this as someone who deals with it daily? Or that your perceptions might be twisted by only noticing it when it happens, and failing to notice all the times it doesn’t fit your prejudice (pre-judgement)?

    It’s just another way for privilege to defend itself by disclaiming responsibility for the people who use it in the worst way, by absolving hetero folk and insisting, EVERY FUCKING TIME, that Ha Ha He’s Totally Gay. EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.

    My last word on this. Privilege always defends in the same ways: the right to make jokes at people’s expense is more important than recognizing the targets might have a clue about the way their own life goes.

    Disappointing. Expected better rationality here.

  35. caseloweraz says

    Dogmeat: “No idea where “state” came from, brain glitch, rebooting…”

    Probably from “opposite state.” It’s a common sort of mistake.

  36. caseloweraz says

    Swanson: “God gets the Denver Post.”

    Where does God have it delivered? Would it not be interesting to follow the delivery truck and see where God hangs out? I bet it’s in the Garden of the Gods in (wait for it) Colorado Springs.

    So God is sitting in the Garden, reading the Denver Post, when Zeus comes by and says “Hey, G! It’s a great day for golf. Hows about we go out and hit a few?”

    God replies, grumpily, “I’d love to, but I’ve got to find someone to smite.”

    “Christian flock running off the rails again?” inquires Zeus.

    “Arrggh,” replies God, too overcome with angst for a longer answer.

    “Well,” suggests the Greek arch-deity, “why don’t you let me lob a thunderbolt or two at ‘em? It’d bring ‘em back into line — like that thing that somebody down there came up with: ‘scared straight,” I think it was called.”

    God brightens at the prospect. It tells Zeus to go ahead, and aim at San Francisco.

    Suddenly, the horizon of Colorado Springs flares with a burst of lightning, and thunder booms among the mountains. Forests erupt in flame.

    “Dolt!” God exclaims. “I told you to aim at San Francisco. That’s my home base down there!”

    “Sorry,” says a contrite Zeus. “I forgot about daylight savings time.”

  37. dogmeat says

    Confirmation bias. Markedness. While you’re telling me about how illogical I am, consider looking those up, and your statement above, and how they might affect the truth value of it.

    Prior to getting snide and snotty, you might want to reply to what I actually said rather than putting words into my mouth. I never said you were being illogical, I only stated that your argument was flawed.

    Now that you’ve resorted to strawman arguments and appeals to (self) authority, you might want to take a step back and see what was actually posted here.

    1) @ 9 comment is made that his apparent fear of female anatomy suggests a frustrated homosexual [note: personally, this could be or he could just be a weird POS; don’t really care, he’s a jackass]

    2) @12 you post your comment where the leap is apparently from this guy might be a frustrated homosexual to the unsubstantiated claim that someone here was arguing that all homophobes are frustrated homosexuals. [Note, no one actually made any such claim or even suggested something in the neighborhood of the zip code of the vicinity of such a claim.]

    3) @17 Nick seconded your post @12

    4) @25 link is posted to a study supporting the argument that some homophobes are suppressing their own feelings/orientation [note: no idea if this is a valid study]

    5) @26 Rick Perry is presented as an example [shrug]

    6) #33 Dingo presents a number of examples followed by your conversation @34, 35, 36 in which you resort to name calling to further your argument (definitely convinced me, I promise to no longer read Dingo’s comments ever again, that asshole). [/sarcasm]

    7) @39 & 40 two comments are made (mine included) that point out that some homophobes are additionally driven by their own self loathing caused by factors that have nothing to do with homosexual or heterosexual orientation, but instead authoritarian, bigoted, fundamentalist beliefs.

    8) You have an additional freak-out in which you establish that you’re kind of an ass (you were projecting a bit on Dingo, weren’t you?). You establish yourself as something of a concern troll, dismissive, and arrogant. You also have a tendency to put words in people’s mouths & construct strawman arguments so you can joust them. (congratulations, you got it on the first try)

    Note throughout the exchange, not one person claimed that homosexuals were to blame for homophobia or the generally shitty way that bigots and assholes want the entire country to treat them. Not one person claimed that all, a majority, or even many homophobes are closeted or conflicted homosexuals, only that some are, with evidence presented in the form of individuals who exhibit this behavior and a link to a study correlating this observation. In fact, a point was made to argue that orientation had nothing to do with their bigotry in a causal manner, only as an exacerbating factor. Namely they were bigoted assholes who happened to be gay, last I checked, homosexuals aren’t immune to being assholes.

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