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Hagee: Not Being Healed = Being Healed

Matthew Hagee, John’s even dumber son, was asked by a follower why praying for healing in Jesus’ name doesn’t always result in the person being healed. His answer: The person is healed even if they’re not healed. Oh, and up is down. And war is peace. As George Carlin said, it’s the greatest bullshit story ever told.

Comments

  1. Draken says

    Like he says, praying is just part of the healing process. The rest only follows if you GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY.

  2. ArtK says

    This Jesus guy has really got it made. He’s gone beyond “heads, I win; tails, you lose” to “heads, I win; tails, I win.”

    This is just another reason to blame the victim. They didn’t pray enough. They weren’t sincere. God is trying to send them a message to improve their lives. Now they just aren’t aware of when the healing takes place. Hmmmm — anyone for a nice round of “Texas Sharpshooter” followed by some cherry picking?

    I know that when I have a nasty head cold and I pray, God’s healing takes 7-9 days to take effect.

  3. raven says

    Fundies have a shorter life expectancy than normal people.

    And in a lot of places, it is falling rapidly.

    So much for faith healing.

  4. Mr Ed says

    You have to admit they have themselves a sweet like psychos. Bad people (people other than Us) sin and are evil, we sin and get forgiveness. Pray to God if you get what you want he heard your prayer, don’t get it and you are being tested like Job. No matter the outcome it can be spun good for us and bad for them.

  5. says

    Back in my evangelical theist days, I heard a lot of “God always answers prayers; sometimes the answer is No” from the pulpit. The realization that there was absolutely no detectable difference between “No” and the resounding silence of non-existence is one of the things that finally drove me from religion.

    And I agree with ArtK #3. One of the (many!) things wrong with modern Christianity is the doctrine that you can have anything and everything you possibly want, if you just (pick one or more): have enough faith, pray hard enough, are obedient to God, are obedient to God’s ministers, give enough money to God via His Chosen Pastor. When the magic inevitably fails to happen, it is your own damned fault. Unfortunately, this is not limited to just evangelical Christianity; many denominations have adopted this “science of the mind” theology to some extent, and it serves as the basis of the “prosperity gospel” that a great many clergy teach.

  6. Michael Heath says

    Ed writes:

    As George Carlin said, it’s the greatest bullshit story ever told.

    Well as much as I love George Carlin, he’s wrong here. It’s not even a very good bullshit story, you’d have to be either indoctrinated as a youth or a moron to buy this crap. I started having doubts at ten and my seventeen found the arguments absurd.

    Instead the existence of fundamentalists reveals how prevelant it is in our culture for adults to remain emotionally juvenile and either not develop critical thinking skills or be culturally rewarded for not applying those skills consistently – like when it comes to religion or politics and other topics that tempt us to think like a tribal member.

    Religionists will get no kudos from me for a con well-played. Instead I’ll keep lamenting how billions of weak-minded people are; that reminds me of another Carlin quip:

    “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”

    [For pedantics, Carlin should have replaced the word 'average' with 'median'.]

  7. Michael Heath says

    Modusoperandi writes:

    Look, when you pray for healing in the Lord’s name, the Lord does heal you. It’s just that sometimes you have to die first.

    That’s actually one of the best arguments I’ve encountered on the topic. For Modus’ sake I hope God’s grading on the curve.

  8. typecaster says

    Fundies have a shorter life expectancy than normal people.

    I’d find that tremendously useful in some of the…discussions…I have with certain co-workers and brothers-in-law. Do you have a cite that I could use to back it up?

  9. jaybee says

    Gregory in Seattle #6 said about God answering prayers if one is obedient/faithful/pious enough:
    “When the magic inevitably fails to happen, it is your own damned fault.”

    I’m sure there are people in OK who prayed and their house is still standing while the house across the street was flattened, and they are probably more convinced than ever that God is listening to their prayers. Yet they don’t stop and think how odd it is that all the people who didn’t pray hard enough all lie in a geographically contiguous path.

  10. Ichthyic says

    It’s here: Mortality Differentials by Religion in the U.S., Result table p.24

    unfortunately though, you can’t extract religion aside from other correlated factors when looking at longevity.

    it’s pretty much an impossibility, given the long history of an individual human one needs to look at in order to properly rule out other issues, and those are just the socio-historic ones. Then you have to look at genetics too.

  11. Ichthyic says

    … and yes, I looked at the paper. You have to read it for yourself to see what I’m talking about. There simply isn’t a way to properly uncorrelate all the variables properly in a single study.

  12. raven says

    I’d find that tremendously useful in some of the…discussions…I have with certain co-workers and brothers-in-law. Do you have a cite that I could use to back it up?

    Sure.

    This is big news for this year.

    google captures:
    Failing Economies Shorten Lives | Newgeography.com
    www .newgeography. com/content/003511-failing-economies-shorten-lives‎

    Feb 22, 2013 – May 25, 2013 Last Update: 05/25/2013 … But black life expectancy is still shockingly low — an average of 67.6 years for … Most of all, the Midwesterners now being “left behind” are rural whites, a clan about … For white male dropouts, the drop was three years, from 70.5 years in 1990 to 67.5 years in 2008.

    Life expectancy for poor white Americans drops sharply¿ but …
    www. dailymail. co.uk/…/Life-expectancy-poor-white-Americans-drops-shar…

    Sep 21, 2012 – Monday, May 27 2013 3PM 53°F 6PM 60°F 5-Day Forecast … White female high school drop-outs lived to 78.5 years in 1990, 73.5 years in 2008 … found that the average life expectancy in Latin America has risen from 29 years in … Life Expectancy for Less Educated Whites in U.S. Is Shrinking · LatAm Life …

    Life Expectancy Plunges For White High School Dropouts In U.S.
    www. huffingtonpost. com/…/life-expectancy-white-high-school-…‎

    by Bonnie Kavoussi – in 40 Google+ circlesSep 21, 2012 – The life expectancy of white high school dropouts in the U.S. has dropped since 1990, according to a new study published by Health Affairs, …

    The message is average life spans for rural whites in the south and west are dropping, especially among the lower educated and markedly for low education, white, females.

    1. These are likely to be mostly fundies. Fundie isn’t a typical demographic cohort used in social sciences research. There is a lot of overlap with Evangelical but they aren’t the same. You never see the word fundie used in any of these studies.

    You just have to look at what cohorts they did use and extrapolate.

    2. This is unusual. Life spans have been increasing steadily for a century. The last time there was a drop like this was the 1918 flu epidemic nearly a century ago.

    3. No one is quite sure why. It could be due to lack of ability to pay for or access to medical care but they need to do more research.

    4. What we can say is that oogedy boogedy xians praying doesn’t lead to longer life spans especially since their average life spans are dropping and below the population average.

    5. Good luck with your discussions but don’t expect anything. Anyone who thinks the earth is 6,000 years old is immune to reason and knowledge.

  13. raven says

    Failing Economies Shorten Lives newgeography.com
    by Richard Longworth 02/22/2013

    A recent study has come up with some shocking news: life expectancy of the least educated white Americans, both men and women, is going down. White women without a high school diploma now live five years less on the average than they did 20 years ago: for white male dropouts, the decline is three years.

    This is a calamity matched only by the six-year decline in longevity among Russian men in the waning years of Communism there. But that decline, blamed on rampant alcoholism, has been mostly reversed.

    More.

    It’s really unusual to see a drop in life expectancy.

    The last time it happened in the USA was during the flu epidemic of 1918. The last time it happened in recent memory was in Russia after the fall of the USA.

  14. raven says

    raven “In Russia after the fall of the USA

    lol. Spellchecker?

    Naw. Just preoccupied.

    Although, there are some similarities. Falling life spans and a lot more.

  15. John Phillips, FCD says

    Agreed as I thought it rather apt, considering your posts’ subject.

  16. typecaster says

    Raven @15 –

    Thanks, that’s fascinating. As to your point number 5…*Sigh*. You’re correct, of course. But some of them are rational on other subjects, so I live in hope. And the discussions are amusing, if nothing else.

  17. raven says

    Thanks, that’s fascinating.

    No problem.

    A lot of people are spooked by this decline in life spans. It isn’t supposed to happen and is unusual.

    People are looking into just who these people are and why they are dying younger. One source mentioned that a lot of them are low church xians.

    It probably has more to do with economics than religion but we can say that faith healing, incessant praying, and sending money to vaguely humanoid toads like the Hagee’s certainly doesn’t lead to longer, healthier lives.

  18. bmiller says

    There is another factor which we may be missing…the skyrocketing obesity epidemic in the United States, which happens to be especially concentrated in fundyland. (Gluttony does not appear to be as important a sin as homosexuality, for some reason!!!!) Of course, this obesity epidemic is tied indirectly (or directly) to some toxic aspects of late capitalism, including government support for cheap corn syrup, the fast food plague, etec. etc. So we circle back to economics again. But culture plays a role as well. Look at the size of the American Big Mac versus the French Royale with Cheese.

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