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May 26 2013

Dumbass Quote of the Day

From anti-gay bigot Maggie Gallagher:

I personally still cherish the hope that we can as a society eliminate cruel homophobia without jettisoning heteronormativity — which is the need for social norms and institutions to be oriented strongly around the problem and the blessing that sex between men and women makes babies.


Jesus Christ, my eyes could roll from here to Istanbul and back after reading that. Does she think that the way to “eliminate cruel homophobia without jettisoning heteronormativity” (whatever that is) requires devoting one’s entire life to denying equal rights to gay people? Does she think that promoting the idea that allowing gay people to get married is some huge threat to God, apple pie and Lee Greenwood is helping to eliminate homophobia?

Or, conversely, that doing so in any way does anything to affect the ability of men and women to have and raise babies? This is like one big mobius strip of non-sequiturs. Allowing gay people to get married will do absolutely nothing to people in straight marriages. The only people who will be affected are gay couples and — this is crucial — their children. Hundreds of thousands of them. They will be better off for all the same reasons that the children of straight couples are (in a statistically general way) better off with two parents to love and take care of them.

You can’t “cherish the hope” of eliminating cruel homophobia while working to deny equal rights to gay people. You’d either be lying or hopelessly deluded.

24 comments

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  1. 1
    llewelly

    Phrases like “… jettisoning heteronormativity …” make me suspect the speaker is one of those who thinks “the gay agenda” is to make everyone gay.

    After all, making gay marriage equivalent to heterosexual marriage would not change the fact that heterosexuality is normal. It’s just recognition that gay relationships are also both normal and legitimate.

  2. 2
    johnryder

    Heteronormativity is basically the idea that everyone should act like straight white people, even if they are not straight and/or white. It’s actually a pretty important concept and is, in general, a bad thing.

  3. 3
    Modusoperandi

    Hold on. Sex between men and women makes babies? This is the first I’ve heard of tha…
    Oh.
    Ah.
    Ah hah!
    Damn you, Homosexual Agenda!

  4. 4
    Michael Heath

    Like many conservative Christians, Ms. Gallagher is acting out her denying that she’s a bigot while still promoting bigotry. Reminds me of Ray Comfort’s comments in the other thread. That’s where he seemingly promotes science while making anti-science arguments.

  5. 5
    llewelly

    “Heteronormativity is basically the idea that everyone should act like straight white people, even if they are not straight and/or white.”

    That definition (and her closing clause) is why I wrote “… make me suspect …” rather than “… make me confident …” .

    But that is a definition which evolved in the context of a very prejudiced culture. A culture which makes every effort to make its prejudices appear polite and rational. Without that context it is unlikely the combination of two very bland words like “heterosexual” and “normal” could take on such an oppressive definition.

    Furthermore consider the bit about “… eliminate cruel homophobia …” . Any workable attempt to reduce homophobia involves convincing people gay relationships are normal and legitimate. If she really intended to use the word according to its usual definition, she contradicted herself.

  6. 6
    Ibis3, Let's burn some bridges

    Heteronormativity is basically the idea that everyone should act like straight white people, even if they are not straight and/or white.

    No. It’s the idea that there are specific ways (prescribed by God or Nature) to be masculine and feminine, and that society should enforce those norms by any means necessary. This includes being straight, but is not limited to it. It also encompasses complementarian views of gender, and gender policing in spheres other than sex.

  7. 7
    Argle Bargle

    Hold on. Sex between men and women makes babies? This is the first I’ve heard of tha…
    Oh.

    Another believer in the Storkist Theory of Babies.

  8. 8
    raven

    Another believer in the Storkist Theory of Babies.

    That is just a theory.

    There is a lot more evidence for the cabbage patch model of human reproduction.

  9. 9
    Dr X

    Heteronormativity is the body of lifestyle norms that hold that people fall into distinct and complementary genders (man and woman) with natural roles in life.

    Roman Polanski is Maggie’s heteronormative soulmate.

  10. 10
    timberwoof

    When Gallagher wrote, “I personally still cherish the hope that we can as a society eliminate cruel homophobia,” was she being redundant? Is she she trying to imply that all homophobia is cruel, or does she only want to eliminate the kind she thinks is cruel?

  11. 11
    hunter

    “I personally still cherish the hope that we can as a society eliminate cruel homophobia. . .”

    Is there another kind?

    “. . . without jettisoning heteronormativity — which is 1) the need for social norms and institutions to be oriented strongly around the problem and the blessing that 2) sex between men and women makes babies.”

    1) Why is that a need, and who needs it? I don’t.

    2) If they don’t take precautions.

    Keep in mind that Gallagher’s mentor and role model is Robert P. George. If you’ve ever read one of George’s articles on marriage, it’s quite obvious that his favored form of argument is circular, and his basic methodology relies on the non sequitur.

  12. 12
    timgueguen

    This is sort of like the “KKK defense” against chargers of racism. My guess is that she figures it’s only homophobia if it involves beating up gay people, just like it’s only racism if a bunch of Klansmen try to lynch someone.

  13. 13
    gopiballava

    She wants to eliminate enough homophobia so that gay people can’t get sympathy or agreement with the rest of society that there is a problem.

  14. 14
    Ben P

    When Gallagher wrote, “I personally still cherish the hope that we can as a society eliminate cruel homophobia,” was she being redundant? Is she she trying to imply that all homophobia is cruel, or does she only want to eliminate the kind she thinks is cruel?

    I’m quite sure it’s the latter. I have no personal knowledge on whether Gallagher has ever spoken out in support of “kill the gays” laws in Ugana or spoken about the beatings of gay people, but based on this I would suspect she would very strongly deny that she is a bigot, and say that it’s horrible that homosexual people get discrimnated against or abused, but then in the same breath say homosexuality is a sexual deviance and that it’s only natural that gay people shouldn’t be allowed to get married or have children. She would probably say something to the effect of “it’s the natural order of things” and is “common sense,” and that she “doesn’t mind gay people as long as they keep to themselves.”

    This is sort of like the “KKK defense” against chargers of racism. My guess is that she figures it’s only homophobia if it involves beating up gay people, just like it’s only racism if a bunch of Klansmen try to lynch someone.

    I think you went the wrong way with this. It’s exactly like the modern KKK, but in a different way. The KKK and related organizations are so weak these days, they’re rarely capable of perpetrating criminal acts.

    However, the KKK does loudly and proudly, advocate that the reason minorities are disadvantaged in the country is because they are “naturally” less able, and therefore we shouldn’t worry about the issue. This even creeps into mainstream issues every so often when you see politicians, usually Republican ones, make this same argument under the cloak of social science, for example pointing to IQ tests showing minorities tend to score lower on average.

  15. 15
    zmidponk

    …heteronormativity — which is the need for social norms and institutions to be oriented strongly around the problem and the blessing that sex between men and women makes babies.

    Well, leaving aside that this needs changed slightly to read ‘sex between men and women can make babies’, as it doesn’t always, even if the participants are actually trying to make one, there’s still the problem that this isn’t really a ‘problem’ or a ‘blessing’, but simply a fact. As such, I don’t really see why social norms and institutions need to be oriented strongly around this fact, as it doesn’t become less of a fact if this does not happen. This being the case, I see no problem with jettisoning ‘heteronormativity’, especially if doing so makes it easier to also jettison homophobia.

  16. 16
    DaveL

    Basically, this is her way of saying we must continue to be bigoted against homosexuals in such a way that people don’t call us out for being bigoted against homosexuals.

  17. 17
    RickR

    Not just a bigot, but an incoherent moron.

  18. 18
    raven

    …heteronormativity — which is the need for social norms and institutions to be oriented strongly around the problem and the blessing that sex between men and women makes babies.

    This is just gibberish.

    Heteronormaty has nothing to do with whether we treat gay people as…people.

    This is just an obscure way to say, “And think of the children”. Well, OK. I’m thinking of the children. And so what?

  19. 19
    Taz

    Heteronormativity (n) – The tendency to grasp at straws.

  20. 20
    democommie

    Shorter Maggot Gagger:

    “If you people would just STFU and get back in the closet, then I could have a nice life.”

  21. 21
    ebohlman

    zmidponk: Gallagher’s obsession with sex making babies and marriage needing to reflect that comes from the time in her college days when a guy dumped her after getting her pregnant. As a result, she apparently can’t think of a guy doing something other than marrying a woman without thinking about that particular guy not marrying her. It’s sort of the way some homophobes used to (and possibly still do, though I haven’t seen this particular one since the late ’90s) draw a false equivalence between a man who chooses not to procreate and a man who procreates but then doesn’t support his kids.

    In many ways, she has a real complaint but she’s trying to resolve it by focusing on something that isn’t in any real way related to it; it’s like the drunk searching for his dropped keys where the light is best rather than where he dropped them. The kinds of changes that would have any realistic hope of resolving her complaint would require sacrifice and effort on the part of people in her circles (including the ones who pay her for her commentary), so she’s focused on changes whose costs can be externalized.

  22. 22
    Matrim

    Of course, let’s eliminate the cruel and overt homophobia, but keep the insidious systematic homophobia. Then everyone will be happy!

    Well, ‘cept for LGBTQ folks, but then they’re never satisfied

    /snark

  23. 23
    sytec

    I better rethink that vasectomy…. Seems a little “anti” heteronormative now ….

  24. 24
    democommie

    “it’s like the drunk searching for his dropped keys where the light is best rather than where he dropped them. ”

    In Ms. Gagger’s case I’d say it’s more like the drunk going back into the bar, ordering several more drinks and praying to JESUS to majick the car keys back into her handbag.

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