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Swanson, Buehner: Gays Are Criminals, Must Be Punished

Kevin Swanson and Dave Buehner continue to stake out the far right fringe of wingnuttia. On their radio show, Generations Radio, they recently endorsed the idea of stoning gay people and said that, at the very least, they should be punished by the government. Oh, and God is going to punish America too (stop me if you’ve heard this before):

As it turns out what works for Rob Bell is also what destroys civilizations and brings God’s judgment down upon civilizations. I know it’s really hard for some people to understand but if he did it in the Old Testament he is going to do it in the New Testament as well friends because God is the same God of judgment, the same God that holds nations to accountability and of course calls them to repentance as well and he holds them to tighter accounts on that repentance, according to the Apostle Paul on Mars Hill. By the way, New Zealand also has just legalized same-sex marriage so this thing is spreading all around the world today. There will be some nations better than others and New Zealand will not be one of them, friends. I’ve heard people talk about how wonderful New Zealand is and maybe we should all move to New Zealand, I’m sorry, New Zealand has also legalized same-sex marriage and has gone the way of America effectively…

Swanson: I would say the general equity of a law in the Old Testament that says that homosexuals should be put to death would be to frown on homosexuality.

Buehner: To frown?

Swanson: At least, at least to frown.

Buehner: Before you throw the stone?

Swanson: At the very, very, very least you would hope that somebody would get some kind of a moral directory, a trajectory towards a negative approach to handling homosexuality on the part of the civil magistrate. I hope that somebody would get that out of some of these Old Testament laws.

Buehner: So to Mr. Keller and to Mr. Bell and to many others who are saying these sorts of things, I would say not only is homosexuality a sin but it’s a crime. The general equity requires that it still be a crime; the moral law requires that it still be listed as a crime ergo Christians should in no way give any kind of endorsement, support candidates who give endorsement or in any way cooperate with the committing of a crime against the law of God. God’s law is law, God has the authority, he gives his authority to civil magistrates to execute his law; this is outside, against and opposed to God’s law.

Swanson: If there will be Christianity extant in the year 2060 friends somebody is going to have to be rooted and grounded to the rock solid foundations of God’s laws, otherwise they’re going to be blown about with every political position that comes around that is out to destroy our civilizations as we know it.

I know exactly what they mean. If we don’t stop pissing off the invisible leprechaun that lives in my basement, he’s going to punish America really hard. And I’ll have proof of that if anything bad happens anywhere.

Comments

  1. dingojack says

    NZ is going the way of America?!?
    Has America passed a federal law equalising all marriages (followed by a little Maori love song Karaoke), already, in secret?

    Causality, UR doin’ it Rong.

    Dingo

  2. timberwoof says

    It’s clear that these wingnuts are projecting. This blog story is about the awful things that (certain) Christians say they want to do to me; the next one is about the awful things that (certain) Christians fear I want to do to them. The symmetry is ironic.

    Everything the Fundagelicals say that gay people (and Obama) want to do to them is something they want (or in many cases, do!) to do to others. I don’t have any sympathy for them.

  3. Abby Normal says

    When the civilization you’re trying to uphold kills people for the crime of loving each other, destruction sounds like a pretty good idea.

  4. dingojack says

    Abby – I know it’s not entirely on point but you reminded me of:

    PRINCE
    Where be these enemies? Capulet! Montague!
    See, what a scourge is laid upon your hate,
    That heaven finds means to kill your joys with love.
    And I for winking at your discords too
    Have lost a brace of kinsmen: all are punish’d.

    :( DIngo

  5. says

    I was just thinking, before I read this, how “sin” has changed. The old preachers, the ones we were still hearing from in the 1950s and 60s, were ranting about how God was going to destroy America, how the government was going to throw true Christians in jail, how we would not be permitted to own Bibles, and so on. But the sins God hated were dancing, working on Sunday, playing cards, girls getting pregnant (well, as to the last, nothing has changed).I don’t ever remember homosexuality being mentioned. Not once. I learned about it from the Bible, not from preachers.

    My family belonged to one of the stricter fundamentalist sects. We had more “sins” to worry about. Swearing, going to movies, thinking about sex, masturbation, long hair on men, women wearing pants, abortion, smoking. My in-laws told my son (in 1980) he was going to hell because he smoked.

    Still no mention of homosexuality.

    God must have had some horrendous experience to have changed his mind so abruptly.

  6. Randomfactor says

    If the wingnuts don’t like this, they should take it up with them.

    Yeah, that’s the plan. First, pack the court with wingnuts, then…test case.

  7. says

    Susannah “I was just thinking, before I read this, how ‘sin’ has changed. The old preachers, the ones we were still hearing from in the 1950s and 60s, were ranting about how God was going to destroy America, how the government was going to throw true Christians in jail, how we would not be permitted to own Bibles, and so on….”
    It’s the slippery slope, you see. Dancing, working on Sunday, playing cards, girls getting pregnant, swearing, going to movies, thinking about sex, masturbation, long hair on men, women wearing pants, abortion and smoking were all gateway sins, leading to the rampant, fabulous, outbreak of homosexuality that America faces today.

  8. zippythepinhead says

    dingojack@2: To paraphrase Einstein, causality is an illusion. God is bored with punishing us after we sin. Since he knows the future, he’s going to punish us before we sin, and save us all lot of time that way.

  9. baal says

    I’m tempted to find and send them a vid link that shows a stoning and demonstrates how cruel and inhumane it is. I’m not sure they’d understand the message, however.

  10. Abby Normal says

    @ DJ
    I can see it. We’re both saying they bring ruin upon themselves by forsaking love for hate and we’re all diminished by it. Though I’d cast myself more Mercutio than Prince; a plague on both their houses.

  11. says

    … if he did it in the Old Testament he is going to do it in the New Testament as well…

    Oh, so we have nothing to fear then. Moving on…

  12. matty1 says

    When I was a Christian I was taught that the point of Christianity is that no one can please God by following the rules*, which is why we have to rely on Jesus to take pity on us despite our sin not as a reward for stopping it.

    *The implication was that Big G has impossibly/stupidly high standards no human could meet

  13. tubi says

    So…the OT God that authorized the murder of millions, including children, and condoned slavery, is the God they worship and hold in highest esteem? Good to know.

  14. imthegenieicandoanything says

    So, these people are shits? I’ll take it up with shits who I see and hear in person – and appear to be VERY thin on the ground outside the deep-Red Xian welfare states (in public).

    Unless they get in charge, they have a right to talk and live like stupid, immoral, useless, empty assholes, even if it slightly inconveniences me.

    To paraphrase a wise fictional character: I don’t hate them. I hate what they’ve become. I hate the disease.

  15. demonhauntedworld says

    If there will be Christianity extant in the year 2060 friends somebody is going to have to be rooted and grounded to the rock solid foundations of God’s laws

    Teehee. Given the slang meaning of the word “rooted” in Australia (and elsewhere), this becomes a funny double entendre.

  16. jnorris says

    Kevin Swanson and Dave Buehner are cowards. If they really believed this shit they wouldn’t wait for the government. If they really believed they would start killing gays themselves. But, remember guys, many homosexuals have guns (shocking, right?) and know how to use them.

  17. timberwoof says

    “But the sins God hated were dancing, working on Sunday, playing cards, girls getting pregnant (well, as to the last, nothing has changed).I don’t ever remember homosexuality being mentioned.”

    Susannah, this shows how the unchanging God reacts to the sins of the times.

    zippythepinhead said that “Since he knows the future, he’s going to punish us before we sin, and save us all lot of time that way.”

    Calvinism in a nutshell.

    Baal is “tempted to find and send them a vid link that shows a stoning.” One of the bloggers here on FTB once published a link to an infographic. Just a quick glance turned my stomach, so I did not read it all. Gaah. That demands a gently worded public confrontation.

  18. matthewhodson says

    I’d like to see either one of these assholes personally try to punish a seven-foot-tall NBA center.
    Would that be for wearing clothing made from two different fabrics or for being homosexual?

  19. says

    Chris Broussard (perhaps a soon to be former ESPN basketball analyst) criticized Jason Collins for being gay and then added:

    “If you’re openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, adultery, fornication, premarital sex between heterosexuals, whatever it may be, I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ,”

    Does this idiot live on planet Earth? He’s covering the NBA for fucksake. By his standards the majority of the NBA (and their fans) are doomed to hell. Fuck him and his outdated moral code.

  20. says

    When I was a Christian I was taught that the point of Christianity is that no one can please God by following the rules…

    That’s the excuse some Christians use to completely ignore the rules (except when people they don’t like break them, of course) while smugly pretending they’re BFFs with the God who made them. I first noticed this infantile hypocricy in the born-agains, and it’s pretty much ruined most of Christianity for me ever since.

  21. says

    I’d like to see either one of these assholes personally try to punish a seven-foot-tall NBA center.

    Be careful what you wish for — there’s plenty of people out there who would gladly do it the minute they get the opportunity.

  22. says

    “I’m tempted to find and send them a vid link that shows a stoning and demonstrates how cruel and inhumane it is.”

    I’d bet that if they watched a stoning video alone they would be fapping in less than 10 seconds into it.

  23. kermit. says

    matty1 The implication was that Big G has impossibly/stupidly high standards no human could meet
    .
    Not impossibly high. We have free will so that we can choose to live without sin. It’s just coincidence that tens of billions of people who have lived on this planet have chosen not to do so.
    .
    Yes, let’s bring back stoning for working on the Sabbath, also. Which, I apparently need to remind most evangelicals, is Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.

  24. rork says

    The “rock solid foundations of God’s law” my ass. He’s talking about the old testament. Adulterers are stoned, and you can’t eat clams or bacon, and on and on. Or else God’s authority, or something. I’ve not seen the bacon eaters punished much lately. Pretty ineffective.

    And I was going to say stuff like Raging Bee @25: some of you folks haven’t been beaten up very much I take it. I saw a young girlishly dressed man today (a ten-times-a-day happening, I’m in Ann Arbor), and it is my dream that he can do that and not be dealt any shit, or be harmed, even though he isn’t armed and isn’t a giant.

  25. Ichthyic says

    By the way, New Zealand also has just legalized same-sex marriage so this thing is spreading all around the world today.

    that indeed was a very proud day for my adopted homeland.

  26. Ichthyic says

    We have free will so that we can choose to live without sin.

    the only definition of sin that is consistent is:

    doing things against god’s will.

    since god never existed, at it was always merely a projection of whoever happened to be in power at the time, this can effectively be translated as:

    you’re a sinner if you do things against anyone’s will.

    hence, universal sin is both true, and trivial.

  27. Ichthyic says

    If there will be Christianity extant in the year 2060 friends somebody is going to have to be rooted and grounded to the rock solid foundations of God’s laws, otherwise they’re going to be blown about with every political position that comes around that is out to destroy our civilizations as we know it.

    here’s hoping that “civilization” as these people “know” it, will indeed be long gone by 2060.

    or even 2020.

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