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Agema Just Keeps On Going

Dave Agema, the former Michigan state legislature and now a member of the Republican National Committee, is ignoring the first rule of holes. Already getting hammered even by his fellow Republicans for his virulently anti-gay statements, he went on Tony Perkins’ radio show and compared gay people to alcoholics.

“If you really love someone, if you really were concerned about someone, if you saw your friend for example dying of alcoholism would you just stand quietly by and watch it happen?” Agema said. “Or would you speak up and say hey I want to help you. That’s what we should be doing.”

“What I’d like to have the homosexual community know is I don’t hate them,” he said. “As a matter of fact when Jesus caught a woman in the act of adultery when they brought her to him he said I don’t condemn you but go and sin no more. That ought to be the church’s goal here. We ought to be saying to these people, ‘Hey, we don’t agree with your lifestyle and we’ll help you get out of it, but we want you to know the facts of what’s going to happen to you if you stay in this lifestyle.’”

Oh yes, I don’t hate you, I just think you’re broken and a horrible sinner and want to deny you equal rights until you deny everything you are and become like me. Love — you’re doing it wrong.

Comments

  1. says

    Something bugs me about the slutty-slut story. If the woman was committing adultery, then the man was also committing adultery as defined in the Bible. That is, an unmarried man who has sex with a married woman also is guilty. So why wasn’t he also brought before Jesus?

  2. says

    What “lifestyle”?

    You mean a lifestyle where two people find mutual attraction, set up housekeeping, pay taxes, keep jobs, mow the lawn, maybe adopt and raise otherwise unwanted children?

    Oh, the horror.

  3. Randomfactor says

    Interesting thing about the “adulteress” story. Why’s it in the Bible? Did Jesus run and tell his disciples what he’d done? Putting her life in danger again? Did SHE tell someone who told the gospel writers?

    And when he had the perfect opportunity to chastise a man for homosexual conduct–the Centurion in Matthew 8–why did he praise him instead? It’s almost like Jesus didn’t CARE about who’s gay and who isn’t.

  4. Anthony K says

    So why wasn’t he also brought before Jesus?

    He had to leave for Rome to give a talk on the war on family values and how it would eventually destroy God’s chosen country in approximately two thousand years hence.

  5. Ben P says

    Something bugs me about the slutty-slut story. If the woman was committing adultery, then the man was also committing adultery as defined in the Bible. That is, an unmarried man who has sex with a married woman also is guilty. So why wasn’t he also brought before Jesus?

    Actually that’s exactly one common interpretation of the story, and using it to justify ill-treatment of “sinners” is about as contrary to its meaning as you can get.

    Then they all went home, 8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

    2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

    9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    11 “No one, sir,” she said.

    “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

    The authenticity of this text is highly debateable even within the Christian standards, as it’s not in any early manuscripts.

    One common interpretation of this (and the easy one) is to imply that Jesus shamed the men by identifying their own sins as he was writing in the dirt.

    But another common interpretation is that Jesus basically quoted the law back to them, and shamed them by telling them they weren’t following it, or they’d have the man too (as well as other things).

  6. typecaster says

    Interesting thing about the “adulteress” story. Why’s it in the Bible?

    Because whoever wrote it decided to put it in. This story has about as much historical value as the darkness that spread over the whole world, either nativity story, or…well, anything else.

  7. lofgren says

    fifthdentist, the man was not brought for judgement because Jesus’ response to the woman was pretty definitive. and anyway, you’re not really being particularly insightful to suggest that a bunch of rabbis 2000 years ago might have been slightly sexist.

  8. Synfandel says

    If you really love someone, if you really were concerned about someone, if you saw your friend for example dying of alcoholism being discriminated against by religious bigots would you just stand quietly by and watch it happen?…Or would you speak up and say hey I want to help you. That’s what we should be doing.

  9. says

    fifthdentist: Maybe she was doing it with herself and they couldn’t think of a word for it?

    In related news:
    I always like the apocryphal ending to that story; where, one by one, the people think, and look about them, and drop their stones, and slink away, until there is just one woman left of the mob. She too thinks a bit, and then is just about to hurl her stone at the woman when He looks up and says ‘Jeez Mom, I didn’t mean you!!’

  10. sylwyn says

    That was always one of my favorite bible stories. There was a priest who’s sermons I enjoyed who added a detail that made a bit of sense to me. According to him, the rule was that the first stone had to be cast by someone who’d actually witnessed the sin. As it’s entirely possible that only the co-adulterer was able to bear witness to the act, it may have been impossible for “he who is without sin” to cast the first stone.

    I was aware that the story was likely not part of the original stories (as its earliest appearance is written in the margins of a medieval manuscript (thank you Reasonable Doubts)). I have no idea whether the detail added by the priest was accurate or not, but I liked the extra layer it added.

  11. cptdoom says

    “If you really love someone, if you really were concerned about someone, if you saw your friend for example dying of alcoholism would you just stand quietly by and watch it happen?” Agema said. “Or would you speak up and say hey I want to help you. That’s what we should be doing.”

    I am pretty sure Bloody Mary used similar “logic” to justify the burning alive of 300 or so “heretics.” She was just trying to impress on all the other heretics how horrible their lifestyle choices were and convince them to follow the one, true church. She had to horribly execute some to save the rest, isn’t that loving?

  12. gopiballava says

    Given his set of beliefs, I think he is acting rationally in accordance with them.

    Now, his ability to rationally analyze evidence and claims and sources and such – his choice to believe the bible – may perhaps be something I’d question.

    Reality – you’re getting it wrong. Also, if you think that an eternity of gnashing of teeth is consistent with somebody loving you, perhaps you have a unique definition of love that seems somewhat different than my conception of love.

  13. otrame says

    I always liked that story. It shows Jesus at his best. But IIRC it doesn’t show up in any of the early manuscripts and was still not common in texts copied in the eastern part of the Mediterranean for several centuries.

  14. says

    ‘Hey, we don’t agree with your lifestyle and we’ll help you get out of it, but we want you to know the facts of what’s going to happen to you if you stay in this lifestyle.’”

    You mean facts like “Self-righteous douchebags like me will equate your loving another person to alcoholism and adultery”?

  15. says

    “But, Lord,” one in the crowd asked, “where is the man who was caught with the woman?”
    And He did reply, “Boys will be boys. Amirite?”
    And though the Lord had brought only two hands, there were enough high-fives for all the multitude.

  16. thisisaturingtest says

    What I’d like to have the homosexual community know is I don’t hate them,” he said.

    Ah, the old “love the sinner, hate the sin” hairsplitting to justify being the only ones who are condemning the “sin” (and thus defining the “sinner”) in the first place.

  17. ohioobserver says

    OK I CAN ONLY DO THIS IN CAPS! WHY IS IT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS!? WHAT DID GAY PEOPLE DO TO YOU!? JUST LEAVE THEM THE HELL ALONE!

    Sorry. I needed. that. I have a vein in my forehead that’s swollen to the size of a bratwurst. I’ve said this to the likes of this idiot sooooo MANY times.

    Ahhh. Better. Peace has returned.

    Until the next asshole pours out more bile.

  18. kermit. says

    Dave Agema, I just want you to know that I too was raised in a world of superstition, hatred, bigotry, and sexual oppression. But I was saved! by the application of logic and paying attention to reality. I have seen what happens to loved ones and relatives when they pursue the life of mind-boggling idiocy and self-righteous bullying. You can escape the dark cesspools of what you call a mind! Just join hands with me and ask yourself “Does anything I’ve ever said really make any sense?” Just let those nagging little doubts into your heart, and you too can take the first steps in a life of civil behavior, reasoned discourse, and grown-up talking about sex.

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