Peters Knows In His Heart That Gay Marriage is Wrong

Thomas Peters of the National Organization for Marriage went on David Barton’s Wallbuilders radio show and delivered a weird, rambling argument against same-sex marriage. It’s wrong, you see, because he — and everyone else, he claims — just knows in their heart that it’s wrong.

I’d say that the two big steps to getting to that message, of course, are fighting against the intolerance and hatred that is directed against us, especially in schools. You have a lot of pro-marriage people my age and younger in schools right now and they don’t feel safe right now in sharing their pro-marriage convictions on that vast majority of college and high school campuses. That is something that has got to end. We’ve got to figure out how to break down this ostracizing of pro-marriage viewpoints.

And second of all, we have to continually talk to people about how being pro-marriage is not anti-gay and that there is simply nothing discriminatory about seeing the love of a man and a woman as unique and special and worth protecting…

Marriage just speaks to the human heart and no matter how much propaganda you try to throw at that, the human heart always reestablishes what it knows to be true. And we just know it’s true that there is a difference between two men coming together and a man and a woman coming together. And so I think that is the core message of marriage that eventually will overcome. The question is how many people in the meantime are confused, how many people lose out on that saving message.

I’ve never understood this whole “in your heart” thing (or even less your “heart of hearts”). All this can really mean in this context is “I don’t have an actual argument, so I’m just going to declare that I’m right and that everyone else must know that I’m right.” Not a compelling argument.

31 comments on this post.
  1. Gregory in Seattle:

    “I don’t have an actual argument, so I’m just going to declare that I’m right and that everyone else must know that I’m right.”

    That is really what it comes down to. It is just another way of saying, “I don’t like it and neither should you. So there.”

  2. jasonfailes:

    He must know in his heart that “you know in your heart” is a terrible argument.

  3. Randomfactor:

    I remember the Goldwater slogan “In your heart you know he’s (extremely) right.”
    Which fostered the reply “In your guts you know he’s nuts.”

  4. Synfandel:

    …that there is simply nothing discriminatory about seeing the love of a man and a woman as unique and special and worth protecting…

    1. Can Peters find one person who says that the love of a man and a woman is not unique and special and worth protecting?

    2. If he could, would that have any bearing on the question of whether gay people should be allowed to marry?

  5. imrryr:

    there is simply nothing discriminatory about seeing the love of a man and a woman as unique and special and worth protecting…

    I’m sure each of Newt Gingrich’s marriages were ‘unique’ and ‘special’. Not so sure about the ‘worth protecting’ part. Newt certainly didn’t seem to think the first two were worth protecting all that much.

  6. daved:

    And second of all, we have to continually talk to people about how being pro-marriage is not anti-gay and that there is simply nothing discriminatory about seeing the love of a man and a woman as unique and special and worth protecting…

    There is, apparently, nothing discriminatory about being discriminatory. They don’t even listen to themselves.

    Also, I think their attempt to grab the term “pro-marriage,” isn’t going to work, unlike what happened with “pro-life.” I mean, proponents of same-sex marriage are pro-marriage, too. They’re just more inclusive about it.

  7. gshelley:

    Is there some sort of selection bias going on with me, or have they pretty much abandoned any attempt at arguing their bigotry has a rational basis and are just admitting it is either religious based or “that’s icky” based?

  8. raven:

    I’ve never understood this whole “in your heart” thing (or even less your “heart of hearts”).

    It’s simple.

    All faith claims reduce down to voices in someone’s head.

    Millions of people hear voices in their heads. The voices all say different things. It’s impossible for them all to be right. Most likely, they are all wrong.

  9. kenbo:

    “And we just know it’s true that there is a difference between two men coming together and a man and a woman coming together.” – Mr. Peters

    How did he get through that line and the rest of the show without bursting into laughter? Maybe it is just my sophomoric sense of humor showing.

    Kenbo

  10. kantalope:

    In the heart of his heart of hearts (jeezues have not heard that term in a while), I think he knows: ‘being pro-marriage is not anti-gay,’ is a lie – and a big one.

    I also like how he doesn’t like it when the message he wants out causes ostracization, but I’m guessing he would not object going the other way.

  11. Raging Bee:

    Big deal. I know in my heart that gay marriage is wrong — for me. So I just choose not to marry any guys, and that’s how I keep that particular wrongness out of my heart. Not sure why this fool is making the issue more complicated than it has to be…

  12. Phillip IV:

    And we just know it’s true that there is a difference between two men coming together and a man and a woman coming together.

    So, how about marriages involving a man coming, and a woman faking it to protect his feelings? That does seem to be the basis of quite a number of “traditional” marriages.

    we have to continually talk to people about how being pro-marriage is not anti-gay

    I’m afraid that won’t work, because that’s definitely something people know in their hearts isn’t true.

  13. illdoittomorrow:

    Ed Brayton, @ 0:

    “I’ve never understood this whole “in your heart” thing (or even less your “heart of hearts”).”

    IIRC, segmented worms have multiple vascular structures*, each performing the function of a heart without actually being one**.

    *A less charitable person than me could go places with that.

    **A less charitable person than me could go places with that, too.

  14. Synfandel:

    Well spotted, kenbo. That one slipped past my inner juvenile.

  15. Gretchen:

    “In my heart I know…” = “My intuitions tell me, which I have no desire to reflect on, tell me…”

    I’d say that part of learning to be logical is learning to recognize when your intuitions are just that– intuitions– and that while they’re not bad by any stretch of the imagination, they’re also quite frequently wrong and therefore can never be used as a basis to conclude the truth or value or something.

    I’d say that, but it’s actually more basic that that. This is, or should be, part of being an adult

    And some people just don’t ever become adults. Some of these non-adults, disturbingly, reach positions of great power and influence, which leads to others who look up to them not becoming adults. So you have a child leading other children, telling them that whatever they feel in their heart is special and true and should not be questioned– so long as it agrees with what’s in his heart, of course. If your heart (intuitions) disagree, they can go take a flying fuck.

  16. Gretchen:

    Dammit, I need an editor. Should be “My intuitions, which I have no desire to reflect on, tell me…”

  17. slc1:

    And we just know it’s true that there is a difference between two men coming together and a man and a woman coming together.

    As per usual, assholes like him omit the coming together of two women.

  18. Marcus Ranum:

    Being a marriage “pro” with 2 failures behind me, I’m hardly the expert Newt is.

  19. Bronze Dog:

    I’ve had my own irritation with nuts who think they know what’s “really” in my heart while I look at them with incredulity and disgust. I know I’m not gifted with psychic powers, which is why I have to rely on what they say. Their arguments are typically disgusting when taken at face value and more so when examined in the context of their inconsistency with their other stances and the lies they’re willing to tell. I see no overarching moral philosophy except for Divine Command Theory, which just moves the responsibility to an arbitrary being that is effectively defined as having no overarching moral philosophy.

  20. coragyps:

    Remember, your cardiologist really is the person best qualified to know what lies within your heart, or even your heart of hearts.

    Yeah, I know it’s just a phrase left over from when folks thought the brain was a cooler for over-warmed blood, but shit, we know better now…..

  21. gorgias:

    Y’all are missing the point. This “we all know in our heart” line isn’t a meant as an argument. Hell, it’s not even targeted at proponents of marriage equality. It’s a desperate appeal to try to guilt the many Christians who, regardless of the anti-gay stance their beliefs demand, find themselves leaning in favor of marriage equality due to the pressure of popular culture. This is a statement made out of desperation, a realization that even the anti-gay crowd is losing its resolve.

  22. Gvlgeologist, FCD:

    @slc1:

    assholes like him omit the coming together of two women.

    Well, that’s because, you know, that, like, he thinks it’s kind of hot.

  23. tbp1:

    In a similar vein, have you noticed that whenever a religious conservative uses the words “objective” or “empirical” they’re really saying, “I don’t have any evidence at all to back up my claims, but I’m hoping you won’t notice.”

  24. Larry:

    Ohhhhh, he knows it in his heart! Well, why didn’t he say so! I’m pretty sure that trumps any law ever passed.

  25. richardelguru:

    At least he realises that his brain has absolutely nothing to do with this.

  26. billdaniels:

    Shorter Peters*:
    Those awful, terrible, mean people won’t let us spew our hatred of gays, Jews, Negros, Hispanics, and women (not that there is anything wrong with being gay, Jewish, Negro, Hispanic, or female (he chuckles under his breath).
    *People with the maturity of an eight-year-old can make jokes about Peters’ short peter at this point. I certainly won’t.

  27. kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith:

    Marriage just speaks to the human heart and no matter how much propaganda you try to throw at that, the human heart always reestablishes what it knows to be true.

    That’s what happens when you try to “know” things with a fucking blood pump.

    But I guess you’ve got no choice when the thing you’re supposed to be thinking and knowing things with is so hopelessly corrupted by religion.

  28. kantalope:

    I believe that the Southern response should be: “well, bless his heart.”

  29. jamessweet:

    (or even less your “heart of hearts”).

    My brain of brains tells me Peters is an idiot.

  30. lofgren:

    There are a lot of things I know in my heart. I love my wife. I love my dog. I am a different person now than I was a year ago. I am sad and scared most of the time, but that’s OK because it keeps me honest and decent.

    My heart couldn’t give two shits about gay marriage.

    But then I have the privilege of not having bigots constantly trying to interfere with my family and denigrate our love.

    I suspect a gay person who is in love and wants to get married would have a lot to say about gay marriage, all of it from the heart.

  31. =8)-DX:

    And we just know it’s true that there is a difference between two men coming together and a man and a woman coming together

    Coming together is overrated. I prefer: “One partner coming multiple times with the other reaching various highs until finally coming as well.” You can’t build marriages on the notion of coming together.

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