How Background Checks Lead to Hitler

Michael Hammond of Gun Owners of America, the insanely-far-right group that thinks the NRA are a bunch of weak-kneed liberals, went on Crosstalk Radio with Jim Schneider and they explained how background checks for buying guns leads to genocide, just like it did with Hitler.

Schneider: Let’s talk about this universal background check. Someone was drafting a letter to the president and they copied me in on the email, and here’s what they said, and I’d like to get your reaction to it. They said that the consequence of a background check can be reduced to a simple formula: Examination (universal background checks) leads to registration (local, state and federal databases), which leads to investigation (bureaucratic decisions regarding fitness or need to bear arms), and that leads to confiscation, which leads to tyrannization (the oppression and genocide against a subgroup, whether by its ethnicity, religion, political views or status or against the entirety of a state citizen). So they use examination, goes to registration to investigation, confiscation, and tyrannization or…

Hammond: Which leads to extermination. And I was actively involved in rebuilding the Polish Solidarity Trade Union, which ultimately overthrew communism in the Eastern Bloc, and I can say that both when I talked to these people, they said, you know, ‘The Soviets have all these tanks stationed in our country and we have nothing.’ And let me say that 40 years before in the Warsaw ghetto uprising, the Nazis, who the first thing they did when they came into power was ban firearms, they exterminated the Jews in Warsaw and they did so because the government was the only one who was armed. And, if you watch documentaries of that period, the people facing mass slaughter and saying, ‘We just, what do we do? We have no firearms.” And so ultimately, registration, confiscation, tyrannization has the real danger of leading to extermination.

Schneider: So you wouldn’t necessarily disagree with that progression that this writer was talking about.

Hammond: No. I think there’s a danger that you go in that direction. There’s certainly been governments in our lifetime that have engaged in genocide on a very significant scale. And I have been on the radio in a lot of them, in places like Holland, in places like Poland, in places like the old Soviet Union, and I say to these people, ‘If, in America, we ever reach the point in which you were during our lifetimes, we would like to think that we would be able to defend ourselves.’

The frightening thing is that there are people who actually believe crazy things like this.

24 comments on this post.
  1. psweet:

    In Holland? I may not be a historian, but I think I would have heard of a Dutch genocide!

  2. bcmystery:

    The frightening thing is that there are people who actually believe crazy things like this.

    And I have to attend a family birthday party with a lot of them next Sunday.

    Help me. Somebody…

  3. doublereed:

    Yes, those centuries of pogroms against the Jews didn’t have anything to do with it. It was the ban on guns.

  4. Who Knows?:

    I was thinking the same thing psweet. Maybe he just heard of Dutch Ovens and thought there was a connection?

  5. anubisprime:

    Sounds like perfect xtian / right wing logic to me!

    Actually a shorter version would be….

    Went for a gun…got turned down…went ultra-hulk… and blew a few fuckers away with daddies or mummies, armoury!

  6. democommie:

    The Sheriff of Weld County, CO has announced that he will NOT enforce CO’s gun laws is the ones that are currently in the sausage machine make their way to the governor’s desk (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/17/colorado-sheriff-says-new-state-gun-laws-wont-be-enforced/).

    I went looking for hte Colorado Oath of Office for public officials and couldn’t find it, but I’m guessing that refusing to enforce state laws–especially when having announced his policy in public–would be grounds for some sort of action. It is an elected position and he’s prolly safe in spewing such nonsense but if somebody gets killed because their killer slipped through the cracks, well, hello fucking lawsuit.

    As is virtually ALWAYS the case, he uses the “crimnulz will alwayz haz teh gunz” justification for his wrongheaded policy. The question nobody from the NRA or anybody in their camp can answer is where the “Illegal gun factories” are located.

  7. democommie:

    “‘The Soviets have all these tanks stationed in our country and we have nothing.’”

    Yeah, well, there’s your problem, Billybob, they have FUCKING TANKS and planes and bombs and artillery and professional soldiers and you have your Bushmaster and Glock.

    The whole, “Nazis outlawed gunz and so 6 million people died” is:

    A.) Horseshit.

    B.) Well, I think that “A.)” is pretty much all the rebuttal that’s required but GERMAN jews who were caught up in the holocaust accounted for about 250K or so of the dead so, no, it warn’t just Mr. Hitler’s laws.

    C.) The overwhelming cause for the death of much of european jewry, thousands of gypsies and slavs and all of the gays, disabled persons and unionists at the hands of the Nazis was the near complete lack of any support from the population that wasn’t in those categories–the original “Silent Majority”.

  8. anubisprime:

    There was a massacre in Alphen aan den Rijn a while back. which ended predictably…Death for at least 10 folks.

    Public Prosecutor Kitty Nooy has announced that the perpetrator was a member of a shooting club who held a permit for five weapons, three of which were found on his body!

    To be fair there was also a semi automatic that he must have obtained illegally..some witnesses report he used at least two guns but were unable to confirm one was the semi-automatic, but it seems likely.

    As for Holland hosting a Genocide party…wow…lived here for 30 years never heard that one before and I am married to a Dutch gal from Amsterdam…they must be keeping that unpleasantness quite!

  9. timgueguen:

    Yep, background checks leads to genocide. Just look at all the genocide going on up here in Canada, where no one has any guns, because you have to pass a background check before you can get a firearms license. Those 6 to 10 million privately owned firearms are just a figment of their owners’ imaginations as they wait their turn in the death line.

  10. Childermass:

    Wait a second. How did Germany ban guns in Poland?

    I think we got a plot hole here.

    Millions and millions of Jews and other “undesirables” died in areas that were not under Nazi rule prior to the war. Thus they could not have possibly suffered by any gun ban imposed by the Nazis. They suffered being conquered in war by a brutal oppressor.

    Looking back at the other comments it appears democommie @ 7 is thinking on similar lines.

    Can anyone document lack of such gun laws in areas Hitler conquered? If there were such laws they certainly did not stop partisans from waging war against the Germans and often each other.

  11. bobcarroll:

    Democommie, sometimes action is beneficial, sometimes not. I’d say, wait until he actually ‘does something” to back up his self-serving statement. He might not be so brave when confronted by federal agents.

    His argument is another implementation of the “slippery slope” argument, or as I like to call it, with apologies to the Rev. Spooner, the “slobbery slip.”

  12. bificommander:

    The best I can think of with his Holland genocide is that it was one of the countries were the Nazi’s extermination of Jews was highly effective, in a large part because Jews had been living more freely and openly in the Netherlands than in other countries, which made them easier to find and slower to run.

    By the way, the Dutch army was armed with guns. And a few planes and cannons. They were crushed by the Germans in 4 days. I’m not sure what a few more guns in private hands would have done that the Dutch resistance wasn’t already doing. And freely available guns before the war would have meant more guns in the hands of the Nazi collaborators as well, meaning they could have given the Germans a hand with their invasion.

    Oh, and indeed weapons were restricted to hunters, collectors and sportsmen with permits since 1918… because the government feared the WW1 surplus weapons being used by a communist uprising. Parlement openly stated that the law was meant ‘to keep firearms out of the hand of dirty socialists’. But I’m sure the GOA’s prefered solution was to hand out guns to right wing citizens (“Thanks” said the future Nazi collaborators) and let them fight it out.

  13. nigelTheBold, also Avo:

    Childermass:

    I think we got a plot hole here.

    Bah. Why let a few facts stand in the way of the TRUTH?

  14. nigelTheBold, also Avo:

    Also, I’m wondering if these same folks support the use of drones in attacks in foreign countries?

    If so, I don’t think a few yahoos with assault rifles (or a lot of yahoos with assault rifles) would slow down the government if they went all Third Reich.

  15. raven:

    And let me say that 40 years before in the Warsaw ghetto uprising, the Nazis, who the first thing they did when they came into power was ban firearms,….

    This is a lie.

    The Nazis did not come to power 40 years before the Warsaw uprising.

    They also did not ban firearms when they came to power and seize private weapons. They didn’t control Poland until they invaded and never did that in Germany.

    Fake Hitler Gun Control Quote
    www. debatepolitics. com › New Forums › Gun Control

    10 posts – 7 authors – 8 Jan
    Hitler never said this: “This year* will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will.

    Wingnuts frequently quote Hitler about gun registration. It’s a David Barton class fake quote.

  16. jnorris:

    Checking ID for proof of age before alcohol sale = Hitler!
    Checking ID for proof of age before tobacco sale = Hitler!
    Checking ID to vote = Hitler!
    Checking ID for proof of residency for library card = Hitler!
    Checking ID to cash check = Hitler!
    Having Florida police checking ID of teenager wearing a hoodie with candy in his pocket = Hitler!

  17. Draken:

    It would be quite surprising if the CIA/Homeland Security/Another Shady Office didn’t already have the full membership list of the GOA, plus background data on GOA’s leadership, in its archives.

  18. matty1:

    You know who else was obsessed with Hitler?

    I’m just asking questions.

  19. Phillip IV:

    Yeah, not only are the historic examples mentioned grossly distorted, it wouldn’t even be much of an argument if they weren’t. Even it they had a clear example of a genocide being preceded by gun control measures, that wouldn’t mean that all gun control measures precede genocides, let alone “lead to” genocides.

    It’s just more of the “magical thinking” right-wing extremists seem to apply to anything.

  20. AsqJames:

    I was actively involved in rebuilding the Polish Solidarity Trade Union, which ultimately overthrew communism in the Eastern Bloc, and I can say that both when I talked to these people, they said, you know, ‘The Soviets have all these tanks stationed in our country and we have nothing.’

    Um what?

    IANAH** but I don’t think Solidarity can be described as the ultimate cause of the overthrow of communism in Eastern Europe. They did seem to have quite an impact, but I must have missed the bit where this wingnut supplied them with the guns that allowed them to resist the tyranny of their government. The way I remember it, they won without the guns.

    In fact if they’d actually had guns and used them, I think the outcome could have been very different indeed.

    ** – I Am Not A Historian (and neither is David Barton)

  21. raven:

    with the guns that allowed them to resist the tyranny of their government. The way I remember it, they won without the guns.

    Same thing in the Soviet Union.

    It’s a myth that you need armed revolution to overthrow dictatorships.

    The armed forces are by and large recruited from the people. And they have limited tolerances for shooting their friends, neighbors, and relatives. Quite often they just refuse to.

    I met a guy once overseas who was an American oil worker chased out of Iran and waiting for 18 months to be up for tax reasons. This is what he said, FWIW.

    The young protestors would dress up in funeral shrouds and dance in front of the Iranian troops. The Iranian troops would shoot them dead. Next day, same thing. It wasn’t too long before the Iranian soldiers just couldn’t bring themselves to shoot any more unarmed civilians.

  22. Michael Heath:

    Conservatives and conservative-libertarians can conjure up their own A to Z path from background checks to government extermination of citizens, but they’re impotent when it comes to acknowledging and considering the A to B path on the AGW threat climate scientists warn us about.

  23. democommie:

    Michael Heath:

    Finally!

    So you agree? AGW is not happening; well, maybe there’s some warmin’ goin’ on but it’s not us doin’ it–it’s GOD; okay, okay, maybe it’s us doing it but it’s not a big deal; um, uh, it IS a big deal, but it’s too late to do anything about it and MORE GUNZ!!

  24. martinc:

    Raven @ 15:

    [quoting Hammond the nutter]:

    And let me say that 40 years before in the Warsaw ghetto uprising, the Nazis, who the first thing they did when they came into power was ban firearms

    This is a lie.

    The Nazis did not come to power 40 years before the Warsaw uprising.

    Raven, I think you have misread this. The nutter was saying ’40 years before Solidarity overthrew Polish communism, there was the Warsaw uprising’, not ’40 years before the Warsaw uprising, the Nazis came to power’.

    That first part of his sentence is true. It’s one of the few statments he made that was.

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