NOM Spokesperson Misses the Obvious

Jennifer Roback Morse of the National Organization for Marriage’s Ruth Institute has quickly established herself as one of the most illogical and ridiculous of the anti-gay crowd. Look at what she had to say to a group of Catholic women a few weeks ago and see how badly she misses the obvious explanation:

MORSE: I’ve noticed in my encounters with men who are same-sex attracted particularly that they have a sense of shame. Have any of you ever noticed this? … I’ve noticed that a lot of the people who are very active in the movement to redefine marriage will describe that when they were teenagers that they had a sense of wrongness — of being wrong — and of God thinking they were an abomination, like they all knew that verse. [...]

So they have this sense of wrongness and I think that many of them believe that redefining marriage is going to make them feel better. I think they think that if all of us will approve of them that they will feel better… Making yourself feel good about doing something that is deeply wrong for you is not in the end going to work.

Isn’t it funny how these people adamantly deny the notion that sexual orientation is innate and unchangeable, but they’re absolutely certain that we are born with a particular set of beliefs about the world. Gay teenagers don’t innately believe that being gay is wrong, they’ve just been bombarded with the message from bigots like Morse that it’s wrong, that God hates what they are and will burn them in hell for eternity if they don’t change.

19 comments on this post.
  1. Zeno:

    Yeah, teenagers who constantly hear “gay” used as a pejorative and “queer” as an insult have feelings of “wrongness.” An innate understanding of their wicked “sin nature”? Hell, no. Mere sentience suffices to pick up on the unsubtle messages of social rejection. Morse is stupidity-squared (if not cubed).

  2. Snoof:

    Interestingly, I’ve known a number of heterosexual people who have a sense of shame about _their_ sexuality, too.

    Perhaps we should use this as the basis for outlawing opposite-sex marriage, too.

  3. Ace of Sevens:

    Catholics feel guilty all the time. Perhaps we need to stop Catholicism to help these poor souls.

  4. thomasmorris:

    When I went to BYU (I know, I know), two of my more liberal professors pointed out that there are quite a few young Mormon couples who feel guilty about sex. They’re married, but they can’t get over feeling a sense of shame about it.

    Of course, that shouldn’t be particularly surprising. When you grow up having the message of “sex is sinful” drilled into your head by parents and Church leaders, it’s going to be a little bit difficult to get over the idea that sex is somehow dirty or shameful even if you’re married.

    In other words: Heterosexual sex is shameful. I know it, and deep within your heart you know it too.

  5. Modusoperandi:

    I’ve misplaced my glasses and I can’t help but wonder why the spokesperson would want to catch an octopus.

  6. Michael Heath:

    thomasmorris writes:

    When I went to BYU (I know, I know) . . .

    Hey, at least BYU Professor Daniel Fairbanks has contributed to human knowledge with his insighful and accesible book titled, Relics of Eden: The Powerful Evidence of Evolution in Human DNA .

    That alone may contribute more to humanity than many protestant “universities”; such as Oral Roberts’ ORU, Jerry Falwell’s misnamed Liberty U., and Patrick Henry College.

  7. Johnny Au Gratin:

    Bigots may miss the obvious, but they will keep firing at it anyway. The obvious will keep missing them as well thanks to the shield they have built against it.

  8. slc1:

    Re Michael Heath @ #6

    Let’s not forget the likes of Regent “Un.”.

  9. Marcus Ranum:

    Catholics feel guilty all the time. Perhaps we need to stop Catholicism to help these poor souls.

    Why? It’s their fault.

    Oh, wait…

  10. Nihilismus:

    I think they think that if all of us will approve of them that they will feel better . . .

    Well, that’s only logical. And perhaps it’s because you hadn’t approved of them while they were teenagers that they didn’t feel better earlier. This, of course, can be studied. We could look at cultures where homosexuals aren’t shamed by others and see if they nevertheless feel a sense of shame. We can also look at cultures where homosexuals are shamed in their early years, and see if acceptance by others made their sense of shame lessen.

    Making yourself feel good about doing something that is deeply wrong for you is not in the end going to work.

    I assume by “in the end” she means after death, because otherwise that makes no sense. “Making yourself feel good” actually does get rid of the sense of shame, which is what she was talking about to begin with. Shame = not feeling good about yourself. Not ashamed = feeling good about yourself.

  11. John Pieret:

    Innate wrongness is real … innate sexuality is false … and we know that because innate wrongness is real. A perfect circle.

  12. Sastra:

    I think they think that if all of us will approve of them that they will feel better… Making yourself feel good about doing something that is deeply wrong for you is not in the end going to work.

    This cuts both ways. From our perspective this line of reasoning helps explain why so many Christians are so insistent that their religious beliefs be established in the public schools, in the government, and in our culture in general. Christianity needs to be legally officially the way to believe; it must be normalized. I think they think that if all of us will approve of them that they will feel better … and those nagging doubts which keep chipping at their faith will go away.

    C’mon … deep in your heart, you KNOW your religion is bullshit, don’t you? Why else the desperate legal maneuvers to keep gay marriage illegal?

    Trying to make yourself feel good about doing something that is deeply wrong for you is not in the end going to work.

  13. mvemjsun:

    Do they read the part just after when a man lying with a man as he lies with a woman… It then goes on to say bestiality is a confusing. so homosexuality according to god is an abomination but screwing the family pet is only confusing. And these idiots say this is a moral guide.

  14. Ichthyic:

    Sastra nailed it.

    this is projection, pure and simple.

    The xian bigots used to hold sway decades ago, now that THEY are the ones being criticized, and rightly so, they feel they need to do anything to get the favor of the majority of Americans back.

    sorry, not gonna happen.

    either learn to deal with rejection, or change.

    stop trying to destroy us all just for your petty sense of self worth.

  15. AsqJames:

    But remember, being gay is a choice. Which means all those teens are choosing to be embarrassed and ashamed.

    Which makes absolute sense, because it’s not like the years from puberty to young adulthood are when we are most susceptible to peer pressure and desperately want to conform to group norms or anything right?

    /snark (in case anyone is in any doubt)

  16. abb3w:

    I suspect there may indeed be variations (at least environmental, possibly even genetic) in the degrees to which someone feels “shame”. However, that merely means that if someone’s gay, they don’t bother hiding it from fear of social opprobrium.

  17. dingojack:

    I remember reading in New Scientist* a while back about a study that noted that conservatives have a much heightened sense of disgust and shame compared to liberals.
    It’s a case of: ‘I feel icky, feeling icky is bad and wrong, I can’t be wrong therefore you must feel icky and wrong’. Projection pure and simple.

    OBTW last night (locally) there were thousands of homosexuals (as well as their non-homosexual supporters, friends and family) who were proudly parading down Oxford Street in the centre of Sydney in the 35th Annual Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, including gay members of the defense forces in uniform Yep – deeply, deeply ashamed.
    Dingo
    ——–
    * I’m trying to find it but I’m having connection problems

  18. mikee:

    Shame? No I got rid of that when I left the Catholic Church at 18.
    Anger and rage at this sort of bigoted rubbish, absolutely.

  19. hunter:

    You sort of have to wonder how clueless someone has to be to flaunt their stupidity in public like that.

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