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Georgia Legislator Repeats Barton Nonsense

Georgia state Sen. Barry Loudermilk went on TBN and repeated David Barton’s ridiculous lie that the founding fathers based the entire American government on the Bible. The three branches of government, he says, comes from Isiah 33:22, which says the exact opposite, “the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our ruler, the Lord is our king.” That’s not three branches of government, it’s one person holding all power, the opposite of what the constitution requires. Worse yet he claims:

John Adams, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, they all referenced Jeremiah 17:9, which is the depravity of men, men’s hearts are naturally wicked.

Really? They all referenced that? Then by all means, cite the actual letter, speech or document in which they did so. We’ll wait.

Comments

  1. D. C. Sessions says

    Of course right-wing politicians repeat Barton’s talking points. That’s what they’re for.

  2. rabbitscribe says

    “…it’s one person holding all power…”

    Nonsense. It’s three people who are all the same one God holding all power.

  3. raven says

    The bible doesn’t mention democracy although it was known back then.

    It does mention communism with approval in Acts.

    And it says that the rulers are appointed by god so obey them. The rulers back then were all kings and emperors. Today our ruler is…Obama.

    And oh yeah, Timothy says to pay your taxes.

  4. Maureen Brian says

    No, rabbitscribe. That bit was written way, way before anyone came up with the notion of a trinity – which was well into the thirteenth century and still not accepted by all Christians.

    Isiah is very much of the one god and only one god era.

  5. marcus says

    “…cite the actual letter, speech or document in which they did so. We’ll wait.”

    Sorry, I cant wait since it will take eternity +.

  6. says

    These assholes can’t even quote their bible correctly. They may come up with a citation for the Adams, Washington, and Jefferson reference, but it will be from a David Barton book.
    The interviewer, Perry Stone, is a real piece of shit. He claims to be a prophet. He claimed that it 1997 he prophesied that the governor of Texas would be the next president but he didn’t reveal his prophecy until a few years ago. He’s an arrogant, ignorant, poorly-educated hick. Even his voice irritates me.
    I come across commenters on other sites who claim that the Constitution was based on the bible and other nonsense. When I challenge them to provide proof, their usual first reaction is to say, “You look it up.” When I reply they then start calling me names, ranging from immoral homo to atheist without any morals. Sometimes they quote Barton and when I challenge that they say that I am bullying or persecuting them.
    I pray every day–to no one in particular–that the fucking rapture would come soon and take away all of these assholes.

  7. peterh says

    @ #4:

    One of the key squabbles the Council of Nicea was convened to settle in 325CE was the doctrine of the trinity.

  8. says

    “the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our ruler, the Lord is our king.”

    He’s also ignoring the fact that the Founding Fathers explicitly ruled out the possibility of us having a king.

  9. dan4 says

    @2: Except the three branches of government are supposed to “check and balance” each other, while three people “of the same one”, by definition, can’t provide said checks and balances (only three distinct individuals completely SEPARATE from each other can do that)…so Ed’s point still stands.

  10. says

    You would think that if the Constitution came out of the Bible that the Federalist Papers and other propaganda pieces written in support of ratifying the Constitution would be rife with Biblical citations. But they’re not. And the nom de plumes of people who wrote these tracts anonymously would have been names of Biblical prophets. Instead, they were Latin or Greek names like Publius, Cato, etc.

  11. jjgdenisrobert says

    @rabbitscribe: Yes, the idiotic idea of the trinity existed in the 4th c. CE. But it would still have been anathema to Isaiah (the first part of which was probably written in the 7th c. BCE, or just about 1000 years before the council of Nicea), which is a resolutely unitarian text. Trinitarianism is a concept that did not exist in the form you claim until Christian times. There’s no way that the author(s) of Isaiah would ever have conceived of God as consisting to three “persons”. They would have rather killed themselves than entertain that thought.

    Or have you conveniently forgotten that Isaiah is a Jewish text, not a Christian one?

  12. rabbitscribe says

    jjg: The Holy Bible is an unambiguously Trinitarian text from the very first Book (“The Spirit hovered over the waters… Let Us go down…”). Furthermore, Christians are Jews (see that “ingrafted to olive trees” folderol in Romans). Should you require further trolling, please indicate which would piss you off the most:: the nonsensical contention that the Bible suppports Catholic doctrine, the absurd notion that it supports Protestant theology, or the ridiculous assertion that it supports Mormon spirituality. I am equally proficient defending all three perfectly asinine truth claims. Standard rates apply. Cheers!

  13. abb3w says

    Mostly wrong on attribution; however, to give the Devil his due, some part credit appears deserved.

    There is reference to “depravity of men” in the Constitution Convention Debate notes. However, it’s a view attributed by Madison to Gouverneur Morris, a somewhat more obscure figure in American history. Far more signficantly, it’s also probably fair to ascribe the view to the note-taker, James Madison himself; a student of Witherspoon, he also wrote “there is a degree of depravity in mankind” in Federalist #55. And when talking of the Constitution, he’s probably the single most significant figure.

    Whacking Google Books turns up no easy sign of George Washington or Thomas Jefferson referencing it. John Adams is another matter; he does use the phrase “depravity of Man” in a January 23, 1809 letter (included in the “Old Family Letters” collection); although it’s not clear that is his exact view, the passage seems to suggest his view is at least very close. The letter of John Adams to Mercy Warren (16 Apr. 1776) does not use the exact phrase, but references a similar concept with the phrase “human Nature is corrupted”.

    On the other hand, Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV –”The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”) itself does not use that exact wording. Rather, it’s more a proof-text (one of many) for the protestant (Calvinist?) concept. Google books turns up a more direct reference by a Mr. Treadwell during the NY ratification debate, but he’s well into tertiary figures or beyond; I’m not finding any use of “desperately wicked” for the principals.

    Still, while it’s very wrong, and intellectually sloppy, it appears marginally less than completely wrong.

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