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Staver and Barber Strike the Persecution Pose

An elementary school in Cottondale, Florida decided this year not to put a nativity scene up at the school, as they had done for years. Mat Staver and Matt Barber of Liberty Counsel, noting that the scene is now in a closet, say it’s an “irony” that “Christians are being forced into the closet” instead of homosexuals.

I am amused by the claim that not putting up the nativity scene is viewpoint discrimination. If a school put up a Muslim Ramadan display, they’d be screaming bloody murder about it — and so would the ACLU. That’s the difference between these Christian legal groups and genuine civil liberties groups. When they complain about viewpoint discrimination, they mean only that their viewpoint is being discriminated against. If it was someone else’s viewpoint, they’d be demanding it be silenced.

Comments

  1. angelhearts2002 says

    we really enjoy your atheist blog

    do a search on youtube for ed brayton

    it is the video about the *mental case*

  2. scienceavenger says

    it’s an “irony” that “Christians are being forced into the closet” instead of homosexuals.

    But that’s where their Bible tells them to pray, not out in the open as the hypocrites do.

  3. busterggi says

    Staver, Barber, no one is stopping you from displaying your Christianity at home or at your church or on your person – we just want to follow the Constitution and not have the government endorse or pay for your beliefs. Take some personal responsibility for a change.

  4. says

    From the article:

    “The department of Education came in and talked to us about the legalities of religion in the school systems and the separation of the two” explained Cottondale Elementary School Principal, Brenda Jones. “So, I came back and talked to the faculty about the law and way it’s written. Trying to be fair to all people decided that we would just not put the nativity scene out on campus.” …

    Vicki Barber was one of many citizens who said she believed Florida schools should have fought harder against the regulation.

    Are these people (including a school principal) really just ignorant rubes who have never heard of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

  5. didgen says

    Why can religious people accept that their personal religious beliefs should be exactly that, personal. Please don’t shove it in my face. Have baby Jesus sit on your couch, I won’t mind.

  6. anubisprime says

    Is it not a weird and wonderful trait of all the hard of thinking that when they have no idea what to say they inevitably resort to vapid and nasty little personal digs, character assassinations and insipid insinuations?

    As for forcing xtians back to where they belong….aka Nelson…’Haa! Haaa!’

  7. says

    “Have baby Jesus sit on your couch, I won’t mind.”

    A few weeks back on NPR there was an author being interviewed who hung out with evangelicals for a while. She said some of them would have coffee with Jesus. To the point that they poured a cup of coffee for their lard and savor. She did not tell whether or not Jesus actually drank the coffee. I’m guessing no.

  8. eric says

    @6;

    Are these people (including a school principal) really just ignorant rubes who have never heard of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

    My guess is that they’ve never thought about how the 1st amendment applied to their religious beliefs. And moreover, I’m willing to bet that in a lot of cases its not even malicious, its just a form of cultural blindless: the symbols have been so ubiquitous in these peoples’ lives, they never even think that other people might have different symbols or feel differently about the christian ones. They’ve never encountered anyone from a different culture or even a slightly different variant of their own.

    There was a guy in my freshman college dorm who had never met a non-protestant before. That, in itself, is a bit mind-boggling to me. But I can see how someone coming from such a background would assume a nativity scene was just something everyone put up. A completely non-controversial thing, like having a BBQ on the 4th of July. Because in his experience, literally everyone did it and approved of it.

  9. Nick Gotts (formerly KG) says

    She did not tell whether or not Jesus actually drank the coffee. I’m guessing no. – fifthdentist

    Oh, I’m sure he does – very slowly, but less so when it’s hot and humidity is low.

  10. joachim says

    Uh, actually, Christians really are being silenced.

    But you gotta start somewhere. Only a fool or outright liar would pretend that the atheists would be satisfied with Christians just keeping it to themselves.

    The only thing that will satisfy atheists is Gulags.

  11. says

    eric @ 10:

    I’m willing to bet that in a lot of cases its not even malicious, its just a form of cultural blindless: the symbols have been so ubiquitous in these peoples’ lives, they never even think that other people might have different symbols or feel differently about the christian ones.

    I know, but with Faux News trumpeting the “War on Christmas,” you’d think it would have penetrated enough so that a school principal would not act so surprised.

    It should be noted that the school did the right thing right away. And the locals came up with the right solution … the Creche or one like it could be put up on private property across the street.

  12. anubisprime says

    joachim @ 12

    Uh, actually, Christians really are being silenced.

    No they are not, stop being a drama queen!

    Only a fool or outright liar would pretend that the atheists would be satisfied with Christians just keeping it to themselves.

    Only a fool and an outright liar would suggest any different!
    Atheists have absolutely no interest on what you get up to in the privacy of your own bedroom.
    Unlike theists of course that want their nose into everywhere and everything!
    The point is your delusion should stay your own delusion, and such puerile delusions should not be displayed or flaunted in a public place where some of us find it morally and ethically offensive!
    Keep it to yourself bub!…but unfortunately we know xtians are not capable of the simplest request!
    They even defy blatantly the constitution which is a betrayal of their own country founding principles…way to go hotshot, or is that Judas?

    The only thing that will satisfy atheists is Gulags.

    The projection is strong in this one!
    Anyway who told you that ‘porkie pie’?
    One of your hard of thinking pastors?
    Because if so he was lying to you!

  13. Ichthyic says

    @angelhearts2002:

    Get help David Mabus, seriously.

    what do you think is going to happen if you get arrested a 3rd time?

  14. Ichthyic says

    The only thing that will satisfy atheists is Gulags.

    Yeah, I hear FEMA’s budget has had “Gulags” added to it recently.

    why don’t you go and dig up all the dirt on that!

    we’ll wait here.

  15. Ichthyic says

    Uh, actually, Christians really are being silenced.

    …says the delusional xian that just posted that.

    sorry? WHAT? I CAN’T HEAR YOU?

  16. Chiroptera says

    joachim, #12:

    Uh, actually, Christians really are being silenced.

    Uh, no, actually not.

    Unless by “silenced” you mean not allowed to have the state give preference to their own beliefs. But that would be consistent with you nuts’ belief that being forced to be fair is “persecution.”

    -

    Only a fool or outright liar would pretend that the atheists would be satisfied with Christians just keeping it to themselves.

    Well, in a sense that is almost true. In the sense, that is, that rational people are usually not satisfied as long as people continue to believe things that aren’t true.

    But most atheists are realists and recognize that many people aren’t terribly rational, and even many very rational people have one or two areas in their beliefs where they aren’t consistently rational. So, even if not completely satisfied, many atheists hope that at the very least people will keep their irrationalities to theirselves.

    -

    The only thing that will satisfy atheists is Gulags.

    Oh, right, the black helicopters and FEMA camps.

    Be careful on your way home; don’t let the Illuminati get you!

  17. raven says

    One of the many problems with Nativity scenes is that they are trite and clicheish.

    Seen one plastic animal, seen them all.

    They really need to come up with something new.

    1. An all dinosaur Nativity scene. Kids (and adults) love dinosaurs.

    2. An all UFO Aliens Nativity scene.

    3. They do make a commercially available Zombie Nativity set. I’ll give them credit for trying but somehow, it just doesn’t quite fit the season.

    4. From google I see that they have Nativity scenes made out of bacon and one with all cats.

    Top Ten Worst Nativity Scenes [PHOTOS] – The Rock Station 99X
    therockstation99x. com/ top-ten-worst-nativity-scenes-photos/

    9 Dec 2011 – By now, you probably think you’ve seen it all – nativity scenes with live barnyard … If you can get past the fact that you’re dining on the Baby Jesus. … fascination with all things zombie, I give you the irony of the zombie nativity.

  18. imthegenieicandoanything says

    “Liberty Counsel”?

    Why isn’t “Family” in there as well?

    Still, it’s a positive sign how these evil, stupid, embezzling goons can’t name themselves as they used to when appealing to the public at large, using words that would make them proud, like “white” and “Christian” and “Klan” and such. Why, stylish arm bands have almost disappeared!

  19. raven says

    She said some of them would have coffee with Jesus. To the point that they poured a cup of coffee for their lard and savor.

    Oh. An imaginary friend.

    Joachim can relate to that. I’m sure he has an imaginary friend to talk to in the (nonexistent) FEMA concentration camp his mind lives in.

  20. says

    If I had a nickle for every crank I’ve heard claim that the so and sos want to put Christians or “patriots” in gulags i’d be able to buy a new Fender Jazzmasater. The expensive vintage reissue one they just released this fall.

  21. anubisprime says

    timgueguen @ 25

    If I had a nickle for every crank I’ve heard claim that the so and sos want to put Christians or “patriots” in gulags i’d be able to buy a new Fender Jazzmasater. The expensive vintage reissue one they just released this fall

    Damn it all…I must be well on my way to a pristine Alembic Dragonwing with Coco Bolo top & back!

    http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_dragonwing.html

  22. Sastra says

    joachim #12 wrote:

    Only a fool or outright liar would pretend that the atheists would be satisfied with Christians just keeping it to themselves.
    The only thing that will satisfy atheists is Gulags.

    Atheists consider religious belief to be a form of superstition. IF people are going to hold superstitions, then it is better if they keep them to themselves than allow their superstitions to effect policy and culture. However, best of all is if the superstitious give up their superstitions because they change their minds. Atheists are not going to be satisfied with throwing out the debate.

    Jail doesn’t enter into it.

    Keep in mind that we don’t consider our beliefs to be a matter of “faith.” So we don’t have to resort to force, the way you do.

  23. hunter says

    Mat Staver and Matt Barber of Liberty Counsel, noting that the scene is now in a closet, say it’s an “irony” that “Christians are being forced into the closet” instead of homosexuals.

    Well, if you’re that kind of Christian, somebody’s got to be in the closet.

  24. hunter says

    Mat Staver and Matt Barber of Liberty Counsel, noting that the scene is now in a closet, say it’s an “irony” that “Christians are being forced into the closet” instead of homosexuals.

    Well, if you’re that kind of Christian, somebody’s got to be in the closet.

  25. says

    She did not tell whether or not Jesus actually drank the coffee. I’m guessing no.

    Maybe it was the Mormon Jesus?

    joachim #12:

    How exactly are Christians being silenced? Examples, please.

    It must be rough for Christians, what with stale Christmas songs blaring on the radio and in shopping malls, Christmas decorations in every store, and tinsel every where. How can they live in such a closet!

  26. dingojack says

    dc wilson – to be fair, xmas decorations and tinsel aren’t really specifically christian, and ‘I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Cllaus’ not so much either!
    :) Dingo

  27. Ichthyic says

    to be fair, xmas decorations and tinsel aren’t really specifically christian

    to be fair, there wouldn’t BE “xmas” without the xians so…

  28. says

    “to be fair, there wouldn’t BE “xmas” without the xians so…”

    Well, there might be, but it would mean that the druids and scandaheathens had exterminated their christian oppressors.

  29. Ichthyic says

    Well, there might be, but it would mean that the druids and scandaheathens had exterminated their christian oppressors.

    that would be an interesting parallel universe to explore.

    *sigh*

  30. serena says

    Off topic, but speaking of ‘wacky nativity scenes’, I’ve got a (yet incomplete) picture series of the stations of the cross, starring Lara Croft (I call it ‘The Passion of the Croft’). Now I realize I must do a xmas nativity…. sweet baby larajesus I’ve got to do it!

  31. dingojack says

    Serena – using characters from Ninendo games: Mario as Joseph, Sonic the Hedgehog as baby jesus,…. 8D
    Dingo

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