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Camenker: NOM Just Not Bigoted Enough

Brian Camenker of MassResistance is so far out on the lunatic fringe of anti-gay politics that he thinks the National Organization for Marriage is just too moderate and squishy. Reacting to the fact that marriage equality went 4 for 4 on election day, he says that only happened because the anti-gay activists just weren’t anti-gay enough.

At its root, “gay marriage” is really about the forced acceptance of homosexuality as a normal part of society. But both NOM and the state pro-family groups went to great lengths not to criticize homosexual behavior. They were very fearful of being perceived as “anti-gay” or “homophobic” especially in the liberal press. So they insisted on moderating everyone’s messages. In Minnesota, for instance, activists were specifically told, “Don’t make this a gay issue.”

Those who deviated from this and took a more direct approach were shunned and even publicly criticized by the pro-family establishment. This included some of the vocal black churches in Maryland who wanted to quote the Bible, and activists in Maine and Minnesota who felt compelled to discuss the negative aspects homosexual behavior.

Except for some material posted on websites of the local pro-family groups, there were no attempts at all that we know of to persuade the public through advertising that homosexual behavior was perverse, dysfunctional, and unhealthy. Our side basically conceded that argument completely, and even went to lengths to state that “we’re not anti-gay.” The homosexual lobby took full advantage of that by aggressively portraying homosexuality as just another facet of normal human behavior.

This tactic is not sustainable, as it soon became clear. It certainly does not effectively counter the emotional strategies put forth by the homosexual lobby. At some point you have to engage in the real battle at hand.

When Maggie Gallagher and Brian Brown aren’t anti-gay enough for you, you might as well just pull up a chair next to Fred Phelps at a soldier’s funeral.

Comments

  1. Chiroptera says

    Camenker: NOM Just Not Bigoted Enough

    What? They think their official policy should be: force gays to convert, then kill them?

    At its root, “gay marriage” is really about the forced acceptance of homosexuality as a normal part of society.

    Well, to be more precise, the current situation with respect to gay marriage is that being gay, like being black, is a normal part of society, and if you refuse to accept it and go out of your way to demonstrate that you don’t accept it, then, like overt racists, you are going to find yourself increasingly marginalized.

    But that’s a good thing. Deal with it.

  2. baal says

    Purity arguments are bad. If only we’d been more pure in our X then outcome we disfavor Y wouldn’t happen! The problem with these arguments is that they start with an idea that’s good (to which ever group) and then overlook the real-facts about whatever the situation is. Real-facts > ideology. If you want to move forward, you can’t overlook the total circumstances.

    Arguments from Fear and Arguments from Theology tend to similarly suffer and for exactly the same reason (cf the pyramids post from today).

  3. criticaldragon1177 says

    Ed Brayton,

    You wrote,

    “When Maggie Gallagher and Brian Brown aren’t anti-gay enough for you, you might as well just pull up a chair next to Fred Phelps at a soldier’s funeral.”

    I won’t be surprised if he does that.

  4. John Hinkle says

    What surprises me sometimes is the ability of some of these bigots to produce complete sentences with medium sized words.

    I guess some bigots are better at home schooling than others.

  5. says

    “Forced acceptance.” Sensing the barbarian vibe, where they complain about how they’re forced to accept that the weak have the same rights they do, that no one is above the law or basic morality, and thus they can’t go around beating peasants for sport.

  6. thalwen says

    In other news, the GOP lost black people because they weren’t racist enough. And they lost Latinos because they focused too much on self-deportation instead of promoting rounding up all brown-skinned people and sending them to Mexico whether they’re Mexican or not. And they lost women because they didn’t stress how slutty and icky they are.
    I do hope they double down on their bigotry. It makes fighting them so much easier when they voluntarily say these kinds of things.

  7. wscott says

    But both NOM and the state pro-family groups went to great lengths not to criticize homosexual behavior. They were very fearful of being perceived as “anti-gay” or “homophobic” especially in the liberal press. So they insisted on moderating everyone’s messages. In Minnesota, for instance, activists were specifically told, “Don’t make this a gay issue.”

    This is actually an interesting point. (Hey, even a blind dog finds the occasional bone.) It’s a sign of just how mainstream gays have become that most bigots feel compelled to claim “We’re not anti-gay…” Even ten years ago, it was still safe to rail against The Evil Gays as a whole, but now the problem is just those “radical homosexual activists,” like it’s some fringe element. The problem for the bigots is that wanting to get married just doesn’t seem that radical to most people anymore.

  8. Glenn E Ross AKA HeartlessB says

    I think what he and his ilk mean by “forced acceptance” is that when homosexuality is accepted in the society outside his religious group he will be forced to accept homosexuality so as not to look like a loon in the broader society.

    He will not be able to spout his hateful rhetoric without being laughed at, or vilified, or ignored by the popular society. He could continue if he wanted, but then would have to suffer the same fate as the crazy person roaming the street talking to himself about the coming alien invasion.

    I noticed through the decades how most fundamentalist churches stay about 20 to 25 years behind popular society when it comes to fashion, music and other popular pursuits. Maybe they will out grow this eventually.

  9. timberwoof says

    I say, go ahead and let them be assholes. It doesn’t work.

    In 1992 there were two ballot measures to amend state constitutions to legalize discrimination against gay people: Colorado’s Amendment 2 and Oregon’s Measure 9. In Colorado, the proponents were (publicly) very nice and polite and tried to reign in the crazy. The meanest thing they said publicly was that opera singers can’t sing. In Oregon they turned on the full nasty. Measure 9 was draconian: it would have outlawed gay organizations using municipal theaters and the campaign firebombed the house in which the leader of the opposition lived.

    In Colorado, where they tried to be nice about it, it passed 52-48; in Oregon where they were assholes, it failed 48-52. This was taken at the time as some sort of calibration: We thought they wanted to see what strategies worked and which ones would fail. Ultimately, Amendment 2 failed in all court challenges against it, and even caused a resurgence in gay pride parades in Colorado Springs. But subsequent campaigns against gay rights were not known for violence or the kind of nastiness this dodo proposes.

    So go ahead, Brian Camenker, and turn up the crazy. Marginalize yourselves. See if I care.

  10. D. C. Sessions says

    So his complaint is that the usual anti-LGBT forces aren’t explicit enough to get a strong “Ick!” reaction from the general public?

    I think I can see where this is leading.

  11. gshelley says

    To be fair, he has a point. Once you drop the argument that gays are disgusting perverts that are going to destroy society, you have to at least try and find a rational basis for your bigotry, and as none exists, you end up not really being able to make an argument that isn’t utterly transparent.

  12. says

    Glenn E. Ross – don’t worry, in 25 years or so he’ll have people gene-modifying themselves and getting various technological implants who he can kick around. He can tell us how they’re being so cruel to homosexuals by inventing new genitalia, or something.

  13. Tony ∞ºQueer Duck Hivemind Minionº∞ says

    At its root, “gay marriage” is really about the forced acceptance of homosexuality as a normal part of society fight for equal rights for American citizens

    Fixed that for ya, douchey mcdouche.

  14. laurentweppe says

    Reacting to the fact that marriage equality went 4 for 4 on election day, he says that only happened because the anti-gay activists just weren’t anti-gay enough.

    But he’s right: If the anti-gay coalition, instead of lying through their teeth and indulging in cheap propaganda, had been murdering gays left and right, and also murdering people who did not share their taste for murdering gays left and right, and also went to pre-schools to slaughter every toddlers in precints which voter too much for politicians who do not want to make murdering gays left and right a civic duty, they would have frightened the population into submission.

    Or, they would have disgusted the rest of the human race and given SWAT teams the rare opportunity to put all their training and expensive equipment to good use.
    ***

    I think what he and his ilk mean by “forced acceptance” is that when homosexuality is accepted in the society outside his religious group he will be forced to accept homosexuality so as not to look like a loon in the broader society.

    For a bully, beeing forbidden to indulge in his merry bullying ways is oppression: if harming people with impunity is what makes life worth living for to you, taking it away from you will make your existence a living hell.

  15. dingojack says

    Camenker claimed: “This tactic is not sustainable, as it soon became clear. It certainly does not effectively counter the emotional strategies put forth by the homosexual lobby.”

    But as gshelley (#17) pointed out: “Once you drop the argument that gays are disgusting perverts that are going to destroy society, you have to at least try and find a rational basis for your bigotry, and as none exists, you end up not really being able to make an argument that isn’t utterly transparent.”

    Ah Mr Camenker – project much?

    Dingo

  16. chrisdevries says

    Amusing. But not surprising. Some of these people on the right live in this world in which they filter and block all information that doesn’t agree with their preconceived notions. American society at large has changed; the anti-gay issue isn’t mobilising as many people as it once did because as more people come out of the closet and declare their non-standard sexuality, people are coming to realise that there are a lot of people who aren’t purely heterosexual and cis-gendered. Some of them are friends and neighbours, people who have been implicitly accepted when they were in the closet and are being explicitly accepted when they come out.

    Only those in the right-wing, conservative Christian “bubble” think that America still hates fags, that there is still broad popular support for anti-gay legislation, that it will get people to the polls in record numbers. Let them think that. Let them continue to show others just how out-of-touch they are. Let them be bigoted. Because the more they fight it, the less political capital they’ll have. Two states have passed, by popular vote, pro-gay marriage legislation. One more, Minnesota, defeated an anti-gay marriage bill, again, by popular vote. The trend is broadly progressive, especially in blue states. There is residual hate and fury in the red South, but it’s fading away too, just slower. The war’s not won yet, but progress is plain and obvious to see.

  17. Christoph Burschka says

    At its root, “gay marriage” is really about the forced acceptance of homosexuality as a normal part of society.

    Congratulations, Mr. Camenker, you win a cookie.

  18. lordofsporks says

    I’m hoping Brian will be content with stewing in his own hatred, and doesn’t turn to alternative measures to fight The Gay.

  19. valhar2000 says

    Except for some material posted on websites of the local pro-family groups, there were no attempts at all that we know of to persuade the public through advertising that homosexual behavior was perverse, dysfunctional, and unhealthy.

    For very good reason: I used to be of the “gays are icky” mentality, until I became acquainted with this sort of rhetoric. It didn’t take too long after that for me to fall squarely in the pro-gay rights camp.

    I’m pretty sure that the people who advocate “not making this a gay issue” are simply trying to avoid that.

  20. dan4 says

    @15: “The meanest thing they said was that opera singers can’t sing.”

    What the…? Are you being snarky or was that an actual, ahem, “argument” that was made by the Colorado proponents?

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