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Nov 12 2012

Herman Cain: Time for a New Party

It took less than 24 hours after the election for conservatives to start talking about leaving the Republican party to form a new conservative third party. I was a bit surprised, though, to see it come from Herman Cain. He went on Bryan Fischer’s radio show and pushed for exactly that:

“I never thought that I would say this, and this is the first time publicly that I’ve said it: We need a third party to save this country. Not Ron Paul and the Ron Paulites. No. We need a legitimate third party to challenge the current system that we have, because I don’t believe that the Republican Party … has the ability to rebrand itself,” Cain said.

Fischer, a social conservative leader, noted that he predicted this summer that if Mitt Romney loses, evangelical conservatives would start a third party. “If Barack Obama wins this election the Republican Party as we know it is finished, it is dead, it is toast,” Fischer said in September at the Values Voter Summit in Washington.

Rush Limbaugh, two months ago, echoed the sentiment. ”If Obama wins, let me tell you what it’s the end of: the Republican Party. There’s gonna be a third party that’s gonna be oriented toward conservatism,” he said.

“It is more viable today than it has ever been,” Cain told Fischer today of a third party.

Needless to say, I’m all for this.

66 comments

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  1. 1
    Crommunist

    Is there any precedent for these kinds of comments? That is to say, I can imagine disappointed Democrats saying the same thing after a loss, but so far nothing has come of it. If they say this every time they lose, then it’s just a funny sour grapes story. If not…

  2. 2
    D. C. Sessions

    Yes, the conservatives need a new, more inclusive party. One that doesn’t have any use for race-baiting, for instance.

    So what do you have left of the Republican Party once you exclude all of the people who think that the problems in the USA are all due to blacks, hispanics, Asian immigrants, etc?

  3. 3
    Gregory in Seattle

    And after decades of making it nigh impossible for third parties to have any meaningful impact at the state and national levels, too.

    Save your seats and get a tub of popcorn, this is going to be entertaining.

  4. 4
    tacitus

    You have our blessing, Herman (not that we believe for one second that it will actually happen).

  5. 5
    raven

    There is already a third party. The misnamed Constitution party.

    I saw their statement of principles. Just about every sentence had “god” in it.

    It’s really the Bryan Fischer/Satanorum god party.

    I’d be so glad if they did form a third party, the fundie death cult Jesus New Dark Age party. It is almost certainly just talk though.

  6. 6
    patrickashton

    If the GOP were able to offload evangelical conservatives to a third party, could that put them close enough to the center to pick up independants and even some moderate Democrats and win a three way race?

  7. 7
    Strewth

    This kind of thing has been happening in Canada for a while, especially in Alberta which spawned the Reform, and now Wildrose, parties off of the Conservatives.

    Now, we hadn’t QUITE hit de-facto 2-party status at our low point, so maybe it is easier to come back from that. Plus, whatever else you can say about him, Jack Layton was a hell of a rabble-rouser and a canny statesman.

  8. 8
    coragyps

    “Fischer, a social conservative leader, a bigoted 10-gauge asshole,”

    - Fixed.

  9. 9
    busterggi

    Wasn’t the TP supposedly a third party separate from the Repubes? That’s what they were saying since 2008.

  10. 10
    Deen

    @Crommunist in #1: yes, this was discussed in 2008 as well. I just don’t see this happen anytime soon. The threshold to entry for a new party is just too high, and the costs of dividing one of the existing parties would be too high as well.

  11. 11
    thalwen

    The GOP currently has a very extreme base that in in charge of the primaries and keeps centre-right candidates from advancing. However the bigoted, sexist, exclusionary views of that part of the party become less popular every election cycle. The party either has to become more centrist or it will die, and it will be interesting to watch it unfold.

  12. 12
    markus

    A good idea at first look.

    Getting all the nutjobs to join a new party (symbol: Squirrel? ;) ) could help the GOP to find a way back to what it once was.

    But what would (could) happen after an election? In countries with several partys, coalitions are formed between partys to gain enough seats… would the GOP not be tending to join up with “them” again?

    That would be… potentially really really bad.

  13. 13
    dogmeat

    Is there any precedent for these kinds of comments? That is to say, I can imagine disappointed Democrats saying the same thing after a loss, but so far nothing has come of it. If they say this every time they lose, then it’s just a funny sour grapes story. If not…

    In recent history, the Democrats went through a similar process in the 80s. After losing the elections of ’84 and ’88 following a rather successful ’82 midterm, the party moved more towards the middle (rather successfully given that they technically won in ’92, 96, ’00, ’08, and ’12 and won the EC vote in all but ’00). I’m not aware of a serious push to create a “true liberal movement”, but there probably was one. To be honest though, I see it as less likely. You do have liberals who are certain they are “RIGHT”, but the authoritarian right is more likely to have larger numbers dedicated to the proposition that being more ideologically pure is the answer to every question.

    If the Republicans do fracture, it wouldn’t be all that new. The conservative/pro-business party in the US has a long history of coming apart in the face of changing demographics. In the post War of 1812 era the Federalist party became an increasingly regional party prior to being replaced by the Whig party which failed due to its inability to effectively address the slavery issue.

    My prediction would be a rather small ultra conservative socially conservative party (likely to merge with the Constitution party) and a larger laissez-faire pro business party more in line with more conservative elements of the Libertarian party. The former would likely shriek a lot, but have little actual power (perhaps in the south), the latter would likely survive pending the ability to lure some of the more conservative, pro-business Democrats.

  14. 14
    jamessweet

    If the GOP were able to offload evangelical conservatives to a third party, could that put them close enough to the center to pick up independants and even some moderate Democrats and win a three way race?

    My guess: If the GOP split, it would hurt them in the short term, but heal them in the long-term. The conservative wing would eventually become irrelevant, and the reformed GOP would (just as you say) pick up quite a few independents and moderate Democrats.

    Like Ed, I’m all for this. In the short term, it’s an unmitigated win, as it would decimate the party. And in the long term, it’s a qualified win, because (even if it lures some Democrats away) a legitimate conservative party is better for democracy than the realty-denying crapfest we have now.

  15. 15
    Reginald Selkirk

    I understand that this new party is to consist of telephone sanitisers, hairdressers and advertising account executives. The official name of the party will be “Golgafrincham Ark Fleet, Ship B.”

  16. 16
    greg1466

    Couldn’t agree with them more since it’s the surest way to make the ultra conservatives politically irrelevant. And it will give the GOP a chance to come back and join the rest of us in reality. Another benefit might be that it could make some other third parties more viable. There are a lot of people who vote Democrat simply because they have to in order to counter the huge conservative block represented by the current GOP. Maybe if the GOP breaks up, parties like Green might actually have a chance.

  17. 17
    Michael Heath

    thalwen writes:

    The GOP currently has a very extreme base that in in charge of the primaries and keeps centre-right candidates from advancing. However the bigoted, sexist, exclusionary views of that part of the party become less popular every election cycle. The party either has to become more centrist or it will die, and it will be interesting to watch it unfold.

    Well no, the voting base is not soley in control of the primaries. That is precisely why Romney, and in ’08, McCain was nominated rather than Santorum this year and Huckabee in ’08. The fact is it takes both money and votes to win a primary. And the money carefully influenced both primaries to present a more electable candidate than what conservative Christians desire.

    Here’s an evangelical leader’s perception on how Karl Rove artfully navigated the primary waters to assure a Romney victory: http://www.businessinsider.com/karl-rove-gop-money-civil-war-republicans-2012-11

  18. 18
    Ace of Sevens

    That was my reaction: The Constitution party already exists. THey got .10% of the vote this time, which is even less than usual for them. There don’t seem to be too many Republicans willing to break with the party to support someone even more anti-immigrant and anti-gay.

  19. 19
    jefferylanam

    The problem that any third party has is building a nation-wide organization and getting people elected at all levels. Just the Presidency won’t fly. Did the Greens or Libertarians get any state legislators, county commissioners, or city council members elected? The Republicans in 1860 were successful because the Whigs had fallen apart over slavery and the Republicans could take over their base. I don’t think any third party has gotten more than a handful of elected officials since the Socialists in the early 20th century.

  20. 20
    Ace of Sevens

    Actually, Reform is probably a better fit for Cain, who isn’t overtly Christianist enough for the Constitution party.

  21. 21
    glodson

    Hey, our extreme Conservative GOP lost, so let’s make a super Conservative Party to win! We just need to go harder after the old white male vote!

  22. 22
    brucegee1962

    I can imagine the Republican party having a successful split. It would probably take at least two or three more thorough shellackings to do it, though.

    I’d imagine a situation where the economy takes a nice upswing for Obama’s second term, so Dems pick up the House in 2016. The Big Money part of the GOP becomes dispirited and split, the Libertarian wing finds common ground with the Dem majority wherever it can, and the Fundie wing continues to use its domination of the local nomination process to nominate ignorant losers who can’t get elected. However, with its new dominance, the Democrats start moving farther to the left, and also start displaying some of the arrogance they showed back in the 70s.

    In that case, I could imagine the Big Money and Libertarian types jumping ship to reach the center, trying to peel off discontented centrist Democrats on the way.

    I can’t imagine an exodus farther to the right, though. The Tea Party will keep blustering, but they’re not stupid. Well, ok, they’re not THAT stupid.

  23. 23
    Larry

    Party like its 999!

  24. 24
    dugglebogey

    Will it be conservative, or will it be evangelical? Or both? Maybe they need one party for conservatives who are more evangelical, one for conservatives who are not evangelical, and one party for those who are exactly equal.

  25. 25
    Michael Heath

    dogmeat wrote:

    I’m not aware of a serious push to create a “true liberal movement”, but there probably was one. To be honest though, I see it as less likely.

    Here’s some recent findings on how the U.S. parses out by political ideology: http://www.gallup.com/poll/152021/conservatives-remain-largest-ideological-group.aspx

  26. 26
    baal

    I wish I could look past Herman’s creepiness with women. He was very entertaining reciting pokemon lyrics as poetry or even showing disdain for uzebecki becky stan stan. He would have made a great leader for the ‘new party’.

  27. 27
    Worldtraveller

    There’s no real chance of a significant 3rd or 4th party, unless we change how we do elections, and the parties in power have a vested interest in not changing anything, so it’s pretty much not going to happen, IMO.

  28. 28
    Michael Heath

    I see no room for the Republican party to expand assuming the Democrats maintain the same ideology it’s used to take policy positions since Bill Clinton. The Democrats are now a fiscally conservative / socially moderate- to evolving liberal party and have been for twenty years. The Democrats’ liberal wing is powerless so there’s no pressure to break left, especially as unions unfortunately lose power in the states.

    The left can still win in the long run since the long-run trend in developed economies is progressive where the powers in the Democratic party have liberal mindsets. It would currently be a strategic error for the Democrats to concede the center, especially given its current position is part of the reason the right continues to regress into the world imagined by conservative Christians.

    I think the last nail in the coffin of the GOP could be the Democrats more successfully recruiting a broader swath of the business sector with the exception of those who benefit from climate change denialism. They’ve laid a lot of groundwork already, especially in tech, international finance, the insurance sector, and science-related sectors. The Business Roundtable’s objectives aren’t all that different from the Democrats; and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is now in the bag for big coal, providing an opportunity for Democrats to peel-off the business sectors not enthralled with big oil and gas. Don’t forget that energy booms often run counter-cyclical, so their booms means less profits for those companies who consume energy, so there’s no love between most business sectors and coal and oil except local interests where both are mined.

  29. 29
    iain

    Seems that everyone who isn’t a hard-line conservative seems to think that what’s hurting Republicans are the Tea Party, dogmatic adherence to Norquist and aggressive fundamentalist social policy. The problem is that since the ’80s, Republicans have bound these so tightly together that I don’t see any clean fault lines to fracture along.

    The Tea Party sold itself as the party of small government (mostly) libertarians, but from the beginning they’ve been the party of Glenn Beck’s god-fearing Americans and Sarah Palin’s “patriot” zealots. Would they join Dominionists, or would they still tie themselves to the “starve the beast” crew?

    Would economic conservatives who preach small government and individual liberty really survive the condemnation of Pat Robertson, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum etc. to whom individual liberty goes against their interpretation of the Bible? And, for that matter, does Fischer really believe he’ll gain more votes among hard-line evangelicals that he loses by cutting off moderate Republicans?

    The narrative for Fox and hard-right media seems to be that appeasing moderate conservatives cost them the election, but that seems even more delusional than their expectations before the election. Maybe that’s exactly what it is: a delusion of faith; too much kool-aid. If they do split, in whatever fashion it happens, I don’t see much chance of electoral success, but the propaganda could make even more Americans feel disenfranchised, and destabilize the system even beyond what this election’s vast resources have done.

    Of course I also remember after November 2008 that many talking heads predicted the extinction of the Republican party. It had become irrelevant, we’d have an entire generation of liberalism. For once, Fox was right, and the Tea Party happened in 2010.

  30. 30
    scienceavenger

    I vote for the symbol of the new party to be the woolly mammoth: same party, just older and more out of date.

  31. 31
    Amphiox

    Go go right-wing vote splitting!

  32. 32
    jamessweet

    I vote for the symbol of the new party to be the woolly mammoth: same party, just older and more out of date.

    HAH! Love it.

  33. 33
    whheydt

    I could see any one of several scenarios play out…

    The “null hypothesis” is the status quo. The Republicans continue to nominate candidates that can’t win, and cater to an ever shrinking portion of the electorate, and slowly decline into irrelevance…making the Democratic primaries where the *real* election takes place.

    The Republican party could split by–voluntarily or not–shedding the extreme right, Tea Party, Evangelicals, and general nut cases. Those groups would either form a new party or join one or more of the existing minor parties we already have. After such a split, the residual Republican party might well attract the more conservative independents and Democrats…though it would take time, since the remaining Republicans would have to establish sane and moderate conservative credentials.

    The Republican party could split by the extreme right shedding the moderates, who would then either form a center-right party or join with either the Democrats (who have been nominating basically center-right candidates already) or various existing minor parties.

    The Republican party might implode and generate a 3-way split. One faction would be what used to be called “Rockefeller Republicans” and the other two would be the Tea Party and the Fundie Right Evangelicals. The last might actually for a “Christian-Republican” party, at least in name. The only problem with this scenario is the overlap between the Tea Partiers and Fundies, but I could see at least parts of those factions refusing to join with parts of the other faction.

    In all cases, it will probably be years before whatever is left of the Republicans (by whatever name) becomes a force in national elections.

  34. 34
    abear

    Republicans are joining the Pity Party in droves, does that count?

  35. 35
    andrew

    Dear FSM,

    Please please please oh please let Herman Cain, Brian Fischer, Rush Limbaugh and company make good on their threat and actually start a third part.

    Ramen.

  36. 36
    Draken

    @30: and soon extinct?

  37. 37
    Modusoperandi

    D. C. Sessions “So what do you have left of the Republican Party once you exclude all of the people who think that the problems in the USA are all due to blacks, hispanics, Asian immigrants, etc?”
    I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure the non-resentful wing of the GOP could fit in a booth at Applebee’s.

    iain “For once, Fox was right, and the Tea Party happened in 2010.”
    FoxNews was right, in that the movement they relentlessly promoted was the success they made it out to be.

  38. 38
    Modusoperandi

    whheydt “The only problem with this scenario is the overlap between the Tea Partiers and Fundies, but I could see at least parts of those factions refusing to join with parts of the other faction.”
    Yes. I’m sure that both of the Teabaggers that don’t believe in the Christian Nation myth will be quite put out.

  39. 39
    baal

    “The Republican party could split by the extreme right shedding the moderates, who would then either form a center-right party or join with either the Democrats (who have been nominating basically center-right candidates already) or various existing minor parties.”

    I think the Republican’s have already purged their moderates. Most of them became Democrats (and the blue dogs hardly were). The right edge of the Dems today looks a lot like the moderate (R) of the 80′s. The (R) are so far into ideological purging that occasionally sane folks like Arlen Spector and Lindsey Graham are (were) at risk or reminded to toe the line. Hell, even Orrin Hatch got primaried.

  40. 40
    Rob

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/zingularity/2012/11/12/free-republic-has-a-sad/#comment-38866

  41. 41
    steve84

    I suggest the “American Nationalist Party”

  42. 42
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    As proposed, this doesn’t even make sense. How would this third party get more votes than the Republican party? Does Cain imagine that there is an untapped resource of social conservatives who didn’t find the R-Part conservative enough, said “fuck it”, and stayed home or voted for Democrats?

  43. 43
    Gretchen

    Does Cain imagine that there is an untapped resource of social conservatives who didn’t find the R-Part conservative enough, said “fuck it”, and stayed home or voted for Democrats?

    That’s exactly what he imagines.

    The reality is, of course, exactly the opposite.

    “The oldest philosophy in the world is conservatism, and I go clear back to the first Greeks. … When you say ‘radical right’ today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.”

    — Barry Goldwater

  44. 44
    whheydt

    Re: F @ #42.

    Probably. He may be looking at all the people that one preacher claimed were going to write in Jesus. And, of course, the people who couldn’t bring themselves to hold their noses and vote for Romney even with an “(R)” after his name.

    As for moderate Republicans…everyone seems to be overlooking Colin Powell, for one example, and John Huntsman for another. Not sure where Arnold Schwartzenegger would fit in…

    It is well to remember that the Repulicans appeared to be counting on independents who were really Republicans. Reform the Republicans to get rid of the reactionary right and it’s *possible* that some of the nominal independents might re-register.

  45. 45
    Area Man

    Hey, our extreme Conservative GOP lost, so let’s make a super Conservative Party to win! We just need to go harder after the old white male vote!

    Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. If the “conservatives” peeled away from the GOP to form their own party, what would be left? It would be nothing more than a rebranding effort. Not that they couldn’t use one, but voters aren’t going to be fooled given that this new party looks just like the old party except even less constrained in its craziness.

    What they refuse to accept is that conservatism, in its current form, is not a winning electoral strategy. It’s one giant “fuck you” to everyone who does not have wealth and privilege under the status quo.

  46. 46
    fifthdentist

    Steve84, wouldn’t that be the American Nationalist Workers Party?
    Oh, wait, “workers” sounds all commie, doesn’t it? Better ditch that word in favor of “Christianist.”

  47. 47
    Reginald Selkirk

    New party? It may be time for a new country.
    White House may respond to Texas secession petition

    Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget…

    Uh yeah. How much of that budget do they spend on international defense?

    … and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.

    Dood, Texas was not a part of the US when the Founding Fathers did their founding. And while it’s true that we don’t have legal slavery any more, most of the rest of the country considers this to be an improvement over the original.

  48. 48
    lpetrich

    Have third-party people considered Duverger’s law? Have they considered what’s necessary to get around it? Like third-party-friendly voting systems such as IRV and STV and party-list proportional representation.

    If there’s one thing that the Left and the Right could unite on, it’s pushing such systems. Imagine the Green Party and the Constitution Party agreeing on something. :D

    In fact, the Green Party already advocates IRV and PR: 2012 Green Party Platform

    However, the Constitution Party does not mention such systems: Constitution Party > Our Principles > 2012 Platform

    The Green Party advocates National Popular Vote as an interim reform, while the Constitution Party opposes it, and also wants to go back to state legislatures picking Senators.

  49. 49
    steve84

    I wasn’t necessarily thinking about THE Nazi party. But take the British National Party for example, which is Neo-Nazi

  50. 50
    mikeyb

    Go ahead – make my day – GOP fall further and further into oblivion, and the rest of us can go on with our lives – trying to solve real problems in the real world.

  51. 51
    Marcus Ranum

    Is there any precedent for these kinds of comments?

    Look for a huge revitalization in Randian revisionism.

  52. 52
    Marcus Ranum

    Time for a new plutocracy that better meets the needs of the as-yet-unknown-grope-ocracy!

    There’s just one problem, Herman.

  53. 53
    John Pieret

    As far as I can see, there is only one possible way that a “third party” of any significance could emerge. That would be if Roe v. Wade was overturned. Of course, SCOTUS would not outlaw abortion. It would kick it back to the states. Then the fun would begin. After all the years of promising to outlaw abortion if … gosh darn it … it wasn’t for that nasty Supreme Court, the Republicans would have to, state by state, either follow through or disown anti-abortionism. In the blue and purple states, Republicans would become irrelevant as the gender gap grew and/or the wingnuts abandoned them depending on their approach. Even in the deep red states they would be weakened, since studies of even evangelical women show they aren’t all that much in favor of outlawing abortion altogether.

    It could be very like how the Whig Party blew apart over slavery. The reason I put “third party” in quotes is that whichever remnent proved weakest would soon fade away, as did the Whigs.

  54. 54
    lorn

    Of course they are only joking. Everyone knows that you can’t start a political party with all the major players being like Herman Cain. At least you can’t until we have developed interstellar travel and set up a home base for them in another solar system. This is simple physics folks. Get one thousand Herman Cain grade people in a room together and the intelligence matrix of space itself will collapse. It can’t be done in this solar system.

    In fact, we need to establish laws as to how much raw stupidity is allowed in any real or virtual space.

  55. 55
    llewelly

    Most (all?) the big funders will never fund a third party.

    And in fact they’ll make every effort to see that any divide becomes a divide in name only, like the Tea Party was (even if not entirely artificial from the start).

    If somehow a genuine split happened, one fragment would find itself almost entirely unable to raise money. That fragment would very rapidly become yet another 0.2%-of-the-vote conservative party.

    But that’s all hypothetical; I don’t think there’s any good reason to see this talk as anything other than post-election sour grapes, combined with a defensive reaction to those who claim the Republicans did poorly because they’re too conservative.

    By the time the start of the next congressional session rolls around, the Republicans will observe they still hold a majority in the House, enough Senate votes to filibuster, and an awful lot of influential judges. And they’ll conclude that’s enough of a “mandate” to go right back to their pre-election behavior. Keep mind how hard they played up the idea that their ilk is the real majority, that Obama somehow cheated or consorted with the devil to win.

    If the Democrats win a majority in the House and 60+ Senate votes in 2014, then we will see major changes in the Republican party.

  56. 56
    shripathikamath

    Herman Cain is mistaken if he expects any Republicans to join him. It’d be similar to Larry Craig try to start a new LGBT organization at the national level.

  57. 57
    Michael Heath

    Rob @ 40,

    I enjoyed the letter, but this archetype voted more for Obama than Romney given his graduate degree; by eighteen points. Cite: http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/11/10/opinion/marshpdf.html?ref=sunday-review

  58. 58
    Nick Gotts

    And in the long term, it’s a qualified win, because (even if it lures some Democrats away) a legitimate conservative party is better for democracy than the realty-denying crapfest we have now. – jamessweet

    But you have one: it’s called the Democratic Party. I think the most likely realignment is that the few remaining non-wingnuts in the upper ranks of the Republican Party will join the Democrats.

    The oldest philosophy in the world is conservatism, and I go clear back to the first Greeks – Barry Goldwater, as quoted by Gretchen

    Hmm, I knew Goldwater was a complete shit, but I hadn’t realised he was in favour of slavery and the complete subjugation of women.

  59. 59
    democommie

    “Steve84, wouldn’t that be the American Nationalist Workers Party?
    Oh, wait, “workers” sounds all commie, doesn’t it? Better ditch that word in favor of “Christianist.””

    Ooooh, ooooh! I got it!!

    Howzabout the American Christianist National Enclave (ACNE) or the Formerly United Christianist Klavern Exercising Demococracy (FUCKED).

    “Hmm, I knew Goldwater was a complete shit, but I hadn’t realised he was in favour of slavery and the complete subjugation of women.”

    I was never fond of Mr. Goldwater but a “complete shit”? He would be at the bottom of a very long list of such individuals if I was making one.

  60. 60
    jayarrrr

    I thought the bat-shit racist Jeebus-burnout crazies already had a party, the “Constitution Party”?

    They wouldn’t let Pizzaman come play, though…

  61. 61
    dingojack

    Nicky – yes because acknowledging the existence of conservative impulses in early ‘Greek’* civilisation is exactly saying that one supports slavery and the subjugation of women**.
    @@
    Dingo
    —–
    * such a thing didn’t exist until perhaps medieval times, and as a country possibly as late as the early 19th century.
    ** luckily, you’re not likely to run into one of those poor subjugated Lacedaemonian women, they’d probably have little difficulty kicking your arse around the town (mine too)!

  62. 62
    Nick Gotts

    I was never fond of Mr. Goldwater but a “complete shit”? – democommie

    His advocacy of genocide (use of nuclear weapons in Vietnam) alone would be enough to justify the epithet. Add in his expressed support for Rhodesian arch-racist Ian Smith, and his hatred of labor unions, and I don’t see how it can be contested.

    dingojack,
    Do learn to recognize irony – specifically, the form that involves taking people at their literal word. Oh, and the ancient Greeks were very much aware of their common Greek culture and language.

  63. 63
    jackjesberger

    Ahhh! Induce a third party spoiler effect. BRILLIANT! More smarter even than 9-9-9!

    The truth is, the coalition of the crazy making up the GOP all know that some of them are going to have die (or at least be exiled to the Gulag) so the party might survive.

    Who is it going to be?

    Will the mega-rich plutocrats step aside? Will Grover and his merry band decide “The Pledge” is a bad thing? The Randian objectivists? The racially anxious whites of The South. The white evangelicals?

    In order to prove these extraordinarily unpopular vocal minorities are no longer the heart and soul of the party, some are going to have to go away for good spell, until the memory of their decades of dominance has a chance to fade.

    I think we all know…they aren’t gonna line up to draw straws.

  64. 64
    democommie

    “Add in his expressed support for Rhodesian arch-racist Ian Smith, and his hatred of labor unions, and I don’t see how it can be contested.”.

    Well, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but then you already knew that.

    You will be providing something by way of citation for all three of those charges?

  65. 65
    dingojack

    My dear Nicky – I think you have confused the words ‘irony’ and ‘idiocy’ again. Perhaps you should look them up to clear up this persistent confusion.

    Oh, and the ancient Greeks were very much aware of their common Greek culture and language‘.

    Really? Go tell the ‘Spartans’… ;)

    Dingo
    —–
    ps: Who are these ‘ancient Greeks’ of whom you speak?

  66. 66
    lpetrich

    One thing I forgot in post #48 – to mention the Libertarian Party’s position. A lot of rhetoric about freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom, and only a few proposals for third-party-friendly structural reforms, like making ballot access easier. Nothing on IRV or proportional representation, and nothing on the National Popular Vote initiative.

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    GOP CRACK-UP? HOPE SO... BUT NOT HOLDING MY BREATH. | Jeremiah Thomas Bannister

    [...] Brayton of Dispatches from the Culture Wars (on FreeThoughtBlogs) posted a blog (“Herman Cain: Time for a New Party”) discussing remarks made by The Herman Cain while being interviewed by Bryan Fischer of American [...]

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