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Oct 10 2012

If Only Uppity Women Hadn’t Ruined Marriage

Vile misogynist Vox Day links to this blog post by someone called Dalrock (Day calls him an “influential Christian writer on intersexual relations”), also a vile misogynist, saying that men are getting the bad end of the stick now that women think they should vote and go to college and have equal rights and stuff.

Feminists and their enablers have slowly shaved off the value of marriage for men. Marriage for men no longer means:

  • Being the legally and socially recognized head of the household.
  • An expectation of regular sex.
  • Legal rights to children.
  • Lifetime commitment.

It’s all the fault of the womens, amirite?

Women chose to marry later in order to first have a degree. This older bride then came with a little extra attitude, maybe some student loan debts, and perhaps more expensive tastes…

That wife who waited to marry until she graduated college really needs to get a career before marriage so she can complete her feminist merit badge. This even older and less attractive career gal wife of course comes with even more feminist attitude, and somehow still comes with student loan debt.

You know who figured out how to fix that? The Taliban. They showed those girls who thought they should have an educated a lesson in who the boss really was by killing and maiming them and their teachers.

But the real problem, you see, is that men no longer get to own their wife’s sexuality lock, stock and barrel:

There’s just one more small thing. It took her so long to find you that you can’t reasonably expect her chastity to be perfectly in tact. I mean, it’s mostly there, but it suffered a ding or two. Her virginity was gone to her first boyfriend, but don’t worry it was very romantic and she still has fond memories of that special time. Not too long after that those jerks at the frat house did a number on her pride, but you can’t hold that against her. She’s a bright gal, and after that she learned how to hook up smart. There were, I think, a few other clips along the way. Nothing too serious, but after all remember it did take her forever to find you. Your little bird may not be quite as young and innocent as she would have been had she found you sooner, but there is always hope.

Yeah, things were so much better in the old days when women were considered the property of their fathers, to be transferred to their husbands (at a very young age, of course) and stoned to death if the property was damaged. It’s no surprise that Vox Day gets a woody reading this sort of thing; after all, he thinks women should be denied the right to vote, so this is like neanderthal porn to him.

50 comments

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  1. 1
    Pteryxx

    …GodsDAMN these MRAs are disgusting.

    “On her pride”. Her PRIDE.

  2. 2
    reverendrodney

    “An expectation of regular sex.”

    Words fail me.

  3. 3
    DaveL

    The thought that struck me reading that was “these men are mental pedophiles.” They want a woman who is mentally a child: inexperienced, dependent, and malleable.

  4. 4
    imrryr

    And of course, not a word is said about the man’s virginity.

    Your little bird may not be quite as young and innocent as she would have been had she found you sooner, but there is always hope.

    He lost me at the end here. Hope for what? Making her young and innocent again?

    Also, extra points for calling her a ‘little bird’ and talking about her as if she were a car instead of a human being.

  5. 5
    timgueguen

    Betcha Voxy and this Dalrock idiot weren’t chaste until marriage.

  6. 6
    regexp

    “An expectation of regular sex.”

    Words fail me.

    Ah yea …. one of the more frequent complaints I get from my straight male friends about their marriages is no or little sex. Perhaps if women put out more – I wouldn’t be gay. You see – ITS ALL CONNECTED! This guy is clearly a misunderstood genius.

  7. 7
    gshelley

    Well, at least (assuming the are against SSM) he is being consistent about not liking re-definition of marriage and not just using it as excuse to avoid admitting the opposition is down to bigotry

  8. 8
    Michael Heath

    Dalrock asserts:

    Women chose to marry later in order to first have a degree.

    Yeah and men also delay marriage even later a well. My own speculation is that that males and females both hold off on marriage because the costs of raising a family are so much greater than they used to be, particularly healthcare, education for your kids, and achieving a sufficient savings plan for retirement. In addition the cost of running a household now predominately requires two incomes, not one, where securing a job and having sufficient income also requires more education prior to starting a career than it used to require.

  9. 9
    Gretchen

    attitude

    Translation: self-respect. Day et al. don’t want us to have any. It might lead to the radical, dangerous notion that we exist for ourselves first.

  10. 10
    andrewjohnston

    Good Lord, you’re monitoring Vox Day? Voluntarily?

    Well, let’s just take one little piece of this:

    This older bride then came with a little extra attitude, maybe some student loan debts, and perhaps more expensive tastes…

    Right there is one of the major complaints among MRA/MGTOW types – women these days are “picky.” All those women expecting their boyfriends to have “a job,” or “a diploma,” or “a sense of humor,” or “good personal hygiene.” If they’d just lower their standards, they could find lifelong happiness serving as the in-house maid/prostitute to a man-child who spends every waking hour complaining about women on the Internet.

    I also love “intersexual relations,” which makes it sound like women are the Russians. That seems to be how most of these guys view it.

  11. 11
    Chiroptera

    Feminists and their enablers have slowly shaved off the value of marriage for men.

    Actually, this part is true. And it’s a good thing, since the value of marriage for men has traditionally been having a little fiefdom over which they have total contro.

    Marriage for men no longer means:

    Being the legally and socially recognized head of the household.
    An expectation of regular sex.
    Legal rights to children.
    Lifetime commitment.

    This, too, is true. And for the first two things, that’s a good thing. The third thing is code for “automatically get complete control of the children when the wife gets uppity and runs off” — that is a good thing
    that has changed.

    The last one is code for “the wife has to stick around forever, or until the husband gets tired of her.” And it’s a good thing that is no longer an expectation.

  12. 12
    Mr Ed

    No DaveL these men think of women like they think of their livestock. I have certain expectations of my oxen and hunting dogs both get food and shelter and both have tasks to perform.

  13. 13
    Gretchen

    An expectation of regular sex

    Meaning, occasional impromptu irregular sex is out of the question? Booooring.

  14. 14
    steve oberski

    @timgueguen

    Betcha Voxy and this Dalrock idiot weren’t chaste until marriage.

    Betcha they are now.

  15. 15
    Bronze Dog

    I’m a man, and I’m glad marriage no longer means those things. If it meant those things to my parents, they’d be treating me like a piece of meat, trying force me into getting married into an unhappy, loveless, and financially unsound marriage. Thankfully, my parents live in the modern world and thus do not remotely share Vox Day’s cheap, barbarous vision of marriage.

    I suspect I might be a bachelor for the rest of my life, but I’m fine with that. It keeps my options open if I do end up falling in love, rather than having to deal with a messy divorce from being expected to marry for marriage’s sake instead of happiness.

  16. 16
    Joey Maloney

    “in tact”. Nothing like a steaming heap of asshole drizzled with illiterate.

  17. 17
    blf

    Well I miss using slaves as lion food. That makes the listed minor inconveniences with relations pale into insignificance.

  18. 18
    Abby Normal

    Thank goodness he has the strength of conviction to say these things aloud. Most controlling assholes are more circumspect. Not only does he provide fair warning to those around him, but also an endless wellspring of puerile humor. Every time I read one of his articles it’s like seeing that video of the chimp that scratches its butt, sniffs its finger, and faints off its branch. Gets me every time.

  19. 19
    Jasper of Maine

    Marriage for men no longer means:
    Being the legally and socially recognized head of the household.
    An expectation of regular sex.
    Legal rights to children.
    Lifetime commitment.

    Oh noes! What ever shall they do?

  20. 20
    Leo Buzalsky

    You know…this is the post in which we should have been warned about reading if we are prone to hurting kittens when reading something stupid. Sally Quinn? Yeah, pretty bad, but I’ve become…can’t think of the correct word, but more used to such things due to large amounts of exposure. But this? I don’t tread the misogynist blogs enough to be familiar with such vile. So thanks for the warning (or lack thereof) Ed! :p

  21. 21
    Reginald Selkirk

    “influential Christian writer on intersexual relations”

    Isn’t it usually the case that if a person is influential, then someone will have heard of them?

  22. 22
    Leo Buzalsky

    Desensitized! That was the word I was looking for.

  23. 23
    John Pieret

    Your little bird may not be quite as young and innocent as she would have been had she found you sooner, but there is always hope.

    That she won’t laugh at how bad you are in bed?

  24. 24
    laurentweppe
    Feminists and their enablers have slowly shaved off the value of marriage for men.

    Actually, this part is true. And it’s a good thing, since the value of marriage for men has traditionally been having a little fiefdom over which they have total contro.

    And let us not forget all those uppity sons who after centuries of commiting paricide have eroded the value of patriarchy to the point where one man cannot even enjoy his right of life and death over his own children. Gone is the time when one earned his absolute power by cravenly submiting to the infinite authority of his own father until said overlord died of old age /sarcasm

  25. 25
    Raging Bee

    This older bride then came with a little extra attitude, maybe some student loan debts, and perhaps more expensive tastes…

    Did someone say “first-world problems?”

  26. 26
    Modusoperandi

    Shorter Vox Day: “I’m really just a scared little boy in a brave big man suit.”

  27. 27
    DaveL

    No DaveL these men think of women like they think of their livestock. I have certain expectations of my oxen and hunting dogs both get food and shelter and both have tasks to perform.

    With respect, Mr. Ed, I think my assessment is closer to the truth. Nobody goes around wringing their hands that their new ox has pulled a cart before.

  28. 28
    Bronze Dog

    On the point on expecting regular sex: I’m still a virgin, but I can’t imagine enjoying sex if my chosen partner isn’t eager about it. If I had to pester her until she submitted, wielding alleged social obligations like a club, I’d feel absolutely horrible and guilt-ridden. That method is one way to manufacture the illusion of consent through implied threat. Without genuine consent, it’s rape.

    Hence if I got married, I’d have no expectation of regular sex, just more opportunities to check if she was in the mood. Sex is a cooperative venture, and thus I would think it’s better when everyone involved can put their heart into it.

  29. 29
    raven

    Who in their right mind would marry a looney sociopath like Vox Day?

    You are guaranteed to be abused mentally if not physically and mentally.

  30. 30
    daved

    I know nothing of Dalrock, but is Vox Day married? A quick google search didn’t turn up any evidence that he is.

  31. 31
    raven

    BTW, Vox Day’s father is a criminal currently in prison. He got caught for tax evasion and doubled down by trying to get the judge killed.

    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree in this case.

    The guy is a sociopath.

  32. 32
    =8)-DX

    “An expectation of regular sex.”

    Hey! This one isn’t so bad – anyone can have *expectations* (of their loving, happy, perfect, care-free, understanding) spouse – but life doesn’t work that way, you find this out during this one odd process: it’s called growing up.

  33. 33
    raven

    BTW, Vox Day’s father is a criminal currently in prison. He got caught for tax evasion and doubled down by trying to get the judge killed. He is also a Southern Baptist leader.

    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree in this case.

    The guy is a sociopath.

    wikpedia Robert Beale

    Religion Southern Baptist
    Children Theodore Beale

    Robert Beale is a Minnesota entrepreneur, founder and former CEO of Comtrol,[1] tax protester, and convicted felon who was sentenced to 11 years, 2 months in federal prison for tax evasion, threatening a federal judge, and jumping bail.[2][3][4]

    Beale was the Minnesota campaign manager for televangelist Pat Robertson during Robertson’s failed run for president in 1988. Beale also reported that he was once a major contributor and board member of Living Word Christian Center, a Brooklyn Park church which would later come under the scrutiny of the IRS as well.[4][5] He is also a former shareholder and board of directors member of WorldNetDaily.[6]

    Beale’s problems with the IRS began in the 1990s over a dispute involving a computer software firm Beale founded called Artist Graphics.[4] On April 30, 2008, Beale was convicted of illegally hiding $5.6 million of his salary as CEO of Comtrol to evade $1.6 million in taxes. (His original trial had been delayed 14 months when Beale skipped bail on the eve of his trial in August, 2006.)

    Beale was also later charged with threatening the life of the federal judge who prosecuted him and was given 11 additional months of prison time.

    [7][8] Beale served briefly as his own attorney at his trial.[9]

    Beale is the father of political columnist Theodore Beale (who also goes by the pseudonym Vox Day).

  34. 34
    laurentweppe

    BTW, Vox Day’s father is a criminal currently in prison. He got caught for tax evasion and doubled down by trying to get the judge killed.

    Sooooooo: at least one guy took the “second amendment solutions” schtick seriously, huh?

  35. 35
    oranje

    Vox Day sounds like a character from a Dan Brown novel.

    Also, I’m relatively new to the term MRA (the first time I saw the acronym, I thought someone mistyped “NRA”). Wikipedia helpfully suggested the Metal Roofing Alliance, but I’m assuming it has something to do with the men’s rights “movement.” Pardon for asking, as I can’t spend all day today researching this, but is it as reactionary and revisionist as it all appears to be? Is it the crystallization of the vauge miasma of “traditional values” and the role of women? Seems rather anachronistic if that’s a fair assessment. Vile indeed, Ed.

  36. 36
    Gretchen

    oranje,

    Unfortunately, yes. “MRA” stands for Men’s Rights Advocate, but is code for “anti-feminist.” A person (usually male, obviously) who objects to advances in freedoms for women on the grounds that…well, it curbs the ability of men to dominate them. Basically the misogynistic version of a Christian who complains that atheists are taking over the country because some people say “Happy Holidays” rather than “Merry Christmas.”

  37. 37
    maudell

    The problem, Ed, is that Vox Day *does* believe the Talibans are doing it right. See PZ’s post about Vox Day on women and education (it’s far in my head and I don’t have the link, but he might in fact said Iran, not the Taliban. Big f*cking difference, though). Manboobz.com portrays a lot of his inanities too.
    Sometimes I wonder if Vox Day is in fact a feminist trying to make MRAs look more idiotic than they already are. But that’s probably because I have more faith in humanity than I should (and because I received a feminist education… I’m sure science departments all over the country are plotting for the feminocracy).

  38. 38
    maudell

    @ Gretchen

    Not that it matters, but I’m pretty sure the “A” in MRA stands for “activist”. (it’s hard to remember, activists usually do something about their “cause”… It’s rare to see an MRA actually talking about helping with men issues instead of whining about women. But those people would never associate themselves with MRAs anyway) :-)

  39. 39
    D. C. Sessions

    Betcha Voxy and this Dalrock idiot weren’t chaste until marriage.

    You think that they had a choice? Well, there is always paying for what you can’t get any other way.

  40. 40
    thalwen

    So because of the pinko-commie feminazi agenda men have been deprived of the following when acquiring a wife:
    Being the legally and socially recognized head of the household.
    An expectation of regular sex.
    Legal rights to children.
    Lifetime commitment.

    Wait, this is a bad thing?

    And I love their complaints about slutty non-virginal women, like they’re owed a woman with a freshness seal and are being cheated out of it by teh evil feminists. I can’t speak for every woman but I bet most, including virgins, get turned off at the idea of a man who views them as goods to be used.

  41. 41
    Ben P

    Also, I’m relatively new to the term MRA (the first time I saw the acronym, I thought someone mistyped “NRA”). Wikipedia helpfully suggested the Metal Roofing Alliance, but I’m assuming it has something to do with the men’s rights “movement.” Pardon for asking, as I can’t spend all day today researching this, but is it as reactionary and revisionist as it all appears to be? Is it the crystallization of the vauge miasma of “traditional values” and the role of women? Seems rather anachronistic if that’s a fair assessment. Vile indeed, Ed.

    I’m jumping on to the pile by this point but yeah, MRA stands for Mens Rights Advocate (or Activist I guess, although I’ve primarily heard the former).

    I’m kinder than Gretchen and Maudell in that I’ll only say that some of them have repugnant beliefs.

    Some MRA’s focus on really pretty legitimate concerns. For example a really substantial unstated preference for women when determining child custody matters. (i.e. my wife is an drug addict with no income, but the judge didn’t give my custody petition a second thought before ruling it was in the best interest of the children to be with their mother). Another legitimate topic is substantial procedural unfairness in child support laws. Many states have, with well meaning intent, created a cruel catch 22 where if a father owing child support loses his job and falls behind, he can’t gain a modification of his child support payments until he’s caught up, then because he’s behind, the state takes sanctions (like revoking professional licenses) that make it difficult to get a new job.

    That said, that’s a very narrow group of MRA’s. The vast majority of self-styled MRA’s solely exist in internet communities where they bitch about things. Anti-feminist is a good term. The opinions are all over the place, but generally seem to focus on a couple areas.

    - Arguments that, for all sorts of inane reasons, straight white males are the worst off members of society because they don’t get “special benefits” accorded to minorities.

    – Arguments like the one vox links here that feminism and or sexual liberation have decreased the status of men, and idealizing the sort of “pre-60′s” status quo where, truthfully I think, more people got married simply because of societal expectations of marriage and the idea that a woman would get married simply because she needed support, and the associated belief that women would settle rather than holding out for “love” or a perfect man.

    - All sorts of odd arguments about the nature of sex and relationships between the two parties. You tend to see a significant overlap here between MRA communities and “Pick Up Artist” communities or at least PUA ideas about sexual interaction. For instance the assertion that women by in large simply use sexual attraction as a way to get free things from men, or to get men to do things for them.

    The last two sort of combine into the general tone in most MRA communities that most of them are simply complaining about not being able to get laid. If you ever want to troll an MRA and see smoke come out of his ears, suggest he holds the opinions he does because he’s sexually frustrated. It’s great fun.

  42. 42
    greg1466

    -Being the legally and socially recognized head of the household.
    -An expectation of regular sex.
    -Legal rights to children.
    -Lifetime commitment.

    And there you have them folks. How about a big round of applause for the true cornerstones of Biblical Marriage.

  43. 43
    Marcus Ranum

    I guess Vox hasn’t discovered yet that women can be really interesting and fun friends if you understand that they’re people with desired and ideas of their own. Poor guy. I’ve had a lot of great times in my life with emancipated females and I’m pretty sure they’ve enjoyed it, too. I’m guessing that most women run for a long hot shower after they’ve spent a while around him…

  44. 44
    Freodin

    Do these guys haven’t any conscience? I can see how the notion of legally and socially recognized position of authority and lots of sex and power over all around (under) them can appeal to some (many? most?) man… but to truly and sincerely believe that they deserve that?

    Sorry, but my brain is inable to process this concept.

  45. 45
    dingojack

    @timgueguen et al. – I’d say the closest relationship that Poxy’s had with a women is with his mother, oh and that slightly sticky inflatable latex thing he keeps for his – *ahem* – intimate moments.
    Dingo

  46. 46
    Raging Bee

    Sex is a cooperative venture…

    Yeah, and that means complicated. And people like Vox Day represent that lower caste of “men” who, for whatever reason, never learned how to handle messy, complicated stuff like relationships, mutual respect, negotiation of interests, reconciling one’s own wants with those of one’s prospective partner, etc. All that stuff takes education, experience, ability to articulate one’s feelings and understand what other people are saying, and — perhaps most crucial — the emotional intelligence necessary to deal with the very strong emotions associated with any intimate relationship or desire or possibility of same. Very little of that stuff comes “naturally,” at least not on the level of human intimacy; and male humans who don’t learn the skills can sink to the level of mindless hate and unforgiving resentment that we see in both the Christian Reich and the Taliban.

  47. 47
    sunsangnim

    Wait, if there’s significant overlap between PUAs and MRAs, shouldn’t they be happy that women aren’t waiting until marriage to have sex? If all women were completely insistent upon pre-marital chastity, you would see these same guys whining about how hard it is to get laid (even more than they already do). You can’t say pre-marital sex is ok for men and not for women since it takes two to tango. Evidently these guys are too stupid to realize that.

  48. 48
    timgueguen

    Unfortunately Day has 3 kids, one of whom, Christopher, has already written a novel. Even worse the other two are girls.

  49. 49
    thalwen

    @sunangnim:
    PUAs and MRAs suffer from the same problem. Their attitude turns off women which causes them to not get laid. Women go sleep with other guys which causes them to get butthurt and blame the women for being too slutty. Occasionally they get lucky with a woman who has major issues and doesn’t mind being treated like an object of contempt. The relationship inevitably becomes bad, which causes the butthurt cycle to continue until they die lonely butthurt virgins or get elected as pro-family politicians.

  50. 50
    SnowyBiscuit

    I’d thought I was ready to wade back into the dating pool until I read that post by Dorklock or whatever he’s called.

    Horrible to think there are still men out there who think like that. I may never date again.

    @reverendrodney, #2:

    “An expectation of regular sex.”

    Words fail me.

    I know. Regular sex, ppppffft, boring! My intended and I enjoyed the irregular, unusual, and generally weird sex the most!

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