Alas, we have lost another blogger to Patheos. Dan Fincke has bowed to financial reality and made the move and he leaves with nothing but good feelings from me. One of the best things about the last year for me was discovering his writing. He is one of the clearest thinkers and best writers in this movement, even when he is criticizing me (at least implicitly) for taking too strident a tone (and he may be right, at least in some circumstances). We could use a lot more like him.
I’m sure many people are wondering why we’ve lost so many people to Patheos. The answer is simple: Money. They pay a very high rate, one that can’t possibly be supported by ad revenue. I have no idea where that money is coming from, but it certainly isn’t just from ads on the page or any of the other standard ways you can monetize a website. And for Dan, who teaches at several different colleges and carries on an outrageous schedule just to make ends meet, I certainly can’t blame him for jumping at the opportunity.
Having said that, we’re working on some things to try to get the revenue of this website up so we can compete a little better in terms of pay. Those plans include an ad-free option for the entire network, setting up a book store and a merchandise store and possibly hiring a part-time ad sales person. Stay tuned for all of that. And for the redesign of the entire network, which should roll out in the next few weeks (and it looks a lot better than it does now). So I’m sad that we lost JT, Chris and Dan, but excited about the future.
31 comments
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Paul Neubauer
September 13, 2012 at 12:55 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m sad to see Dan leaving too. FtB quickly became the place to find all the best bloggers and now they’re dispersing (somewhat) again. I followed you guys over here from Sb, and was really pleased to get to know so many others whom I either did not know or at least had not bothered to follow regularly. Dan was one of the latter and I came to appreciate his excellent thinking and writing so much more for finding it so convenient.
I’m waiting with bated breath to see what new ideas you come up with for the site.
Randomfactor
September 13, 2012 at 1:01 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
If FtB becomes the incubator for a new wave of atheist bloggers, that’s not a bad thing.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort
September 13, 2012 at 1:02 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I would pay for an ad-free FTB in a heart beat.
Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle
September 13, 2012 at 1:07 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Seconded!!
Ms. Daisy Cutter, Vile Human Being
September 13, 2012 at 1:10 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Fixed.
No, we really don’t need more privileged verbal diarrhetics who think that calling someone a mean name is on a par with using oppressive slurs. Patheos is welcome to him.
EricJ
September 13, 2012 at 1:21 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
If I were an FTB blogger moving over to Patheos, the first thing I would request is that they not put the “atheist” category under “Faith.” How annoying. They should rename that menu option “Belief” or something like that.
Rodney Nelson
September 13, 2012 at 1:40 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Also long winded, loquacious and prolix.
howardpeirce
September 13, 2012 at 1:55 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
It’s hard to feel too bad about Chris Hallquist leaving, given his irrational attachment to Singularitariarianism.
But if you’re looking for suggestions, Adam Lee has recently expressed some dissatisfaction with Big Think (re. Satoshi Kanazawa). Also, although she identifies primarily as a politics blogger, there’s no one better at articulating the intersection of atheism, feminism, and U.S. politics than Amanda Marcotte at Pandagon. Both of these would be worthy recruits.
shockna
September 13, 2012 at 2:07 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
He’s a philosopher. Keep in mind, the two traits you’ve mentioned here are characteristic of philosophers.
Also, using “long winded” and “prolix” in the same sentence really seems redundant. Minor point, but redundancy is one of my pet peeves.
On topic:
I’ll be reading Finke’s work on Patheos. He was the first to convince me that modern philosophy isn’t just an exercise in bullshitting. Shame to see him go, as it was with JT.
Though now that I have some frame of reference for how much Patheos pays (I figured it would be a marginal difference, but sufficient that economically struggling people like Dan would take it), I’m wondering where the hell that money comes from, if it’s too much for standard ad revenue…
JT Eberhard
September 13, 2012 at 2:31 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
*sigh*
If I had thought I could stay with the SSA, so that I was making a full-time wage, I would still be here.
I miss FtB. It was one of the best things to ever happen to me.
Ed Brayton
September 13, 2012 at 2:47 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
It’s a little easier for me to say goodbye to Chris Hallquist, though not because of anything he ever said or wrote or any disapproval at all on my part. But he wasn’t here as long and I’ve never met him, nor interacted with him all that much. JT and Dan, on the other hand, were here very early on and they’ve become real friends. On the other hand, that’s also a reason not to be too broken up about it because those friendships will continue no matter where they write. And I’ll see JT in a couple months at Skepticon.
eric
September 13, 2012 at 2:56 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m sure Rodney was being redundant as a way of emphasizing the point.
Nobody’s perfect. Its not about whether every single idea or argument that comes out of their blog is convincing, its whether reading them (or any other blogger) is a net win for you. All three were net wins for me, and I’ll keep following them post-move.
This. When other sites recruit your people, you are doing something right, not wrong.
Modusoperandi
September 13, 2012 at 4:28 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Man, you haven’t been on the internet long. They went with the standard way to monetize a website. Once you give them your credit card number all the comments are naked.
Alareth
September 13, 2012 at 5:06 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ok people, I’m taking bets on how long it takes for a FtB detractor to twist this into the claim P.Z. is attacking Patheos.
Alareth
September 13, 2012 at 5:09 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I have no idea why I said P.Z. there. I’m tired … Yeah, that’s it.
frrolfe
September 13, 2012 at 5:25 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
i’m really sceptical that money is the reason for bloggers moving to patheos. looking at fred clark’s blog, he can get up to to 200 comments on an article, not all favourable. ed’s blog probably (being charitable here) averages 20, nearly all of whom are in agreement with ed. my perception of FTB is of a small group of navel gazers who never saw an opposing view they didnt dismiss out of hand.
for an interesting group of navel gazers, go to http://wonkette.com/ to see how group think can be amusing and provocative. you all need to lighten up. reading this blog about persecution of non-believers is as boring as reading the christianist rubbish. misery lit is so last century! as the divine sarah would say “grow one” or at least buy a pair of mini truck nutz to attach to your unicycles. agnostics rule!!!
frrolfe
September 13, 2012 at 5:47 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
BTW1, being offended is not the same as being persecuted (as, in fairness, you point out about the christianists). but you can’t claim one set of rules for yourselves and a different set for others.
BTW2, is the 1st amendment really worth defending in ALL circumstances? the constitution is 200yrs old. is it still fit for purpose? i believe that the greatest treat to the US is the fetishisation of the constitution, particularly when the vast majority of the population (70%,80%, 90%?) have never read it and, therefore, have no idea what is in it.
don’t mind me, i’m only a european. pity that USA!USA!USA! still has the future of the world in its hands.
Noadi
September 13, 2012 at 5:52 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
@ffrolfe: And PZs posts often top 1000 comments. So what exactly is your point other than you don’t like FTB?
@Ed If you do set up a merchandise store I’d be happy to make you a good wholesale deal for Pharyngula themed cephalopod jewelry.
grumpyoldfart
September 13, 2012 at 6:28 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Maybe the Templeton Foundation.
Modusoperandi
September 13, 2012 at 6:46 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
frrolfe “my perception of FTB is of a small group of navel gazers who never saw an opposing view they didnt dismiss out of hand.”
I disagree with everything you say. Because you’re stupid.
“BTW2, is the 1st amendment really worth defending in ALL circumstances? the constitution is 200yrs old. is it still fit for purpose?”
Yes (except for the “fire!” in a crowded theatre kind of exception, narrowly interpreted). Because, as nice and awesome and great it would be for the State to crush speech that I consider dangerous (like talk about puppies and sunshine and the like), eventually I won’t be in power. Then that power that I so cavalierly used on others will be used on me.
Ichthyic
September 13, 2012 at 6:47 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
my perception of FTB is of a small group of navel gazers who never saw an opposing view they didnt dismiss out of hand.
remarkable!
Can you tell us anything else from the view inside your colon?
Avenel
September 13, 2012 at 7:11 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Don’t forget Libby Anne, either. She’s actually the only one lost to Patheos I still read.
John Phillips, FCD
September 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I would also go for an ad free option. After an ftb page itself loads I can end up waiting up to another minute or so for the ads to finish loading and it really screws up the browsing experience on my tablet at times.
Michael Heath
September 13, 2012 at 8:46 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
frrolfe writes:
You didn’t have to ask.
Modusoperandi
September 13, 2012 at 9:18 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ichthyic “Can you tell us anything else from the view inside your colon?”
Oh, come on! That’s too much! It’s not even his colon!
Andrew G.
September 14, 2012 at 1:18 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Fred was getting that many or more when he was at Typepad.
frrolfe
September 14, 2012 at 2:42 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
thank you all for confirming what i said. mean girls gotta be mean!
coryat
September 14, 2012 at 7:33 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Obvious troll is obvious.
Hey, I even managed to get in on the redundancy thing mentioned up thread!
baal
September 14, 2012 at 10:26 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Caine, whose name is less ironic that xe thinks, this post shows exactly why I support Dan and not you (and yours). He is actually trying to make the world a better place for everyone. You offer nothing but endless negativity and can’t tell the difference between folks working to your stated goals and folks working against you. OTOH, given your endless aggression, I’m happy you’re ultimately self limiting.
I’m not saying good-bye to Dan, I’ll read him there. I’ve been exposed to enough philosophy (college classes & PhDs) to dismiss it out of hand. Dan’s changed that by being an advocate for being a better person and a better culture for everyone. His personal decency has made me rethink my biases.
yoav
September 14, 2012 at 11:02 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Alareth #15 said:
It’s OK we all know that everyone on FtB is really a hollowed out husk under the control of PZ’s all encompassing, tentacled hive mind.
ryangerber
September 21, 2012 at 1:21 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I disabled adblock for FtB, but then found that I had to enable javascript for each ad, every time. Most days I don’t bother.
Yeah, I’ll pay for an ad-free version.