Paul Ryan is pandering to the know-nothings — he is a Republican, after all — by saying that the states should decide whether to have prayer in schools, which would require overturning the 1962 Engel v Vitale ruling. This was in response to a question while campaigning in Utah.
“That’s a constitutional issue of the states,’’ Mr. Ryan told a campaign volunteer during a visit to a Romney for President call center in Orem.
The volunteer, Jenny Free, 40, said she was a mother of nine children and asked Mr. Ryan if “we could give back to the states the right to decide if you want prayer or pledge in the schools.’’
Mr. Ryan called the decision to say a prayer or recite the Pledge of Allegiance a “moral responsibility of parents.’’
“Exactly,” Ms. Free responded, according to footage shot by a television reporter for NBC News, “so I am hoping to try and push that.”
“You know, in Utah, I would think you would have a pretty good chance,’’ Mr. Ryan told her.
First of all, why the hell was he bothering to campaign in Utah? The GOP will win that state by a huge margin. Second, he does what all right wingers do and ignores the distinction between prayer in schools and school-sponsored or mandated prayer. There is lots of prayer in schools. What the Supreme Court said in 1962 was that it was unconstitutional to force kids to recite school-written prayers. If that isn’t unconstitutional, what on earth could possibly be?
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Randomfactor
September 10, 2012 at 12:07 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
He’s one of them Papists. Have to reassure the Base that he’s OK–and the Base believes in Kolob.
Chiroptera
September 10, 2012 at 12:07 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
If that isn’t unconstitutional, what on earth could possibly be?
Health care for poor people, evidently.
daved
September 10, 2012 at 12:08 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“There will be prayer in schools as long as there are pop quizzes.” I don’t recall who said that, but I’ve always liked it.
Ellie
September 10, 2012 at 12:11 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Mr. Ryan called the decision to say a prayer or recite the Pledge of Allegiance a “moral responsibility of parents.’’
Therefore, he would like to take that responsibility away from the parents and give it instead, to the government via the public school system.
skeptifem
September 10, 2012 at 12:12 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
He wasn’t campaigning so much as wasting time before a big fundraiser with important (meaning rich) people. That is why he was in Utah.
marcus
September 10, 2012 at 12:13 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Mr. Ryan called the decision to say a prayer or recite the Pledge of Allegiance a “moral responsibility of parents.’’
Well there you go. Solution obvious. The parents can take care of that bullshit before they send the kids off to school. Problem solved.
Reginald Selkirk
September 10, 2012 at 12:22 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ryan thinks my constitutional rights should vary from state to state?
.
What about slavery? Should states be able to reinstitute that if they want to?
Chiroptera
September 10, 2012 at 12:24 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Mr. Ryan called the decision to say a prayer or recite the Pledge of Allegiance a “moral responsibility of parents.”
Let’s see…prayer is the moral responsibility of the parents, so it should be mandated in schools.
Sex education is the moral responsibility of the parents, so it should be left at home.
Hmmm. There’s a word for this, but it’s just at the tip of my tongue….
Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)
September 10, 2012 at 12:30 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Fifteen seconds later, Mormon prayers were mandatory in Utah and Christian parents were outraged.
oranje
September 10, 2012 at 12:37 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Every time I see Vitale in the decision, I think of Dick Vitale saying a prayer in his, uh, distinct voice.
raven
September 10, 2012 at 12:53 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
The Mormon influence in the schools in Utah is so pervasive that any Gentile who can sends their kids to private schools.
Even the atheists send their kids to Catholic and Episcopal schools.
gshelley
September 10, 2012 at 12:53 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Unless the state wants to overule them and force it on the children. I wonder if he sees any inconsistency in his views
Sastra
September 10, 2012 at 12:59 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Mormons, like many Christians, often seem to long for their very own country — not just in heaven, but here on earth. They originally went to Utah to establish God’s kingdom in the land of milk and honey. The closest they think they can get back to that ideal while remaining in a constitutional democracy is “state’s rights.” Majority rules; “my house, my rules.” Other religions can go get their OWN state.
My guess is that they’d want atheists to get their own country, rather than have a neutral secular state. God hates neutrality: you’re either with Him or against Him.
Bronze Dog
September 10, 2012 at 12:59 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m continuing the big facepalm. It disgusts me that we’re still dealing with the same wingnut deceit about the issue. We really need to find an effective way to crack into their echo chambers.
The whole state thing adds on another level. It’s like they want to uproot the very concept of universally granted rights and rule of law in a constitutional democracy and replace it with the chaotic whims of mob ruled anarchy. I’m highly tempted to remove ‘It’s like’ from the beginning of the previous sentence.
eric
September 10, 2012 at 1:09 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m betting that this is a double deceit. There’s the top lie of pretending this has nothing to do with Christian exceptionalism. But there’s the more political lie of implying he isn’t going to just ignore/forget what he said the moment he walked out the door. For all his conservativism, I can’t imagine either him or Mitt making ‘putting prayer back in school’ a goal of their presidency. This was a throw-away line.
Gvlgeologist, FCD
September 10, 2012 at 1:13 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Well, then it’s our responsibility to remind them of this at every opportunity, at every rally (pointing out that this was said in a Mormon state), at every debate.
Gvlgeologist, FCD
September 10, 2012 at 1:14 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
By the way,
Are you saying that this was NITBAFS?
Michael Heath
September 10, 2012 at 1:32 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ed asks:
I assume to amp up the grass roots campaign giving. I do think Rep. Ryan could excite the Utah voting base so it seems prudent to have him there, especially since he’s not moving independent voting preferences.
busterggi
September 10, 2012 at 1:44 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“First of all, why the hell was he bothering to campaign in Utah?”
Because Mormons trust Catholics like Ryan as much as Catholics trust Mormons.
And I don’t trust either them or any other theists (yes, including Obama in his ‘godly’ moods).
d cwilson
September 10, 2012 at 1:53 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Wow. I actually agree with Ryan on something.
Of course, in his world, the parents get to make that decision not only for their own children, but for everyone else’s, too.
raven
September 10, 2012 at 1:54 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
1. They also fought a war against the USA, the Utah war. Which they lost by giving up quickly.
This was followed by an occupation of the US army who built a fort, Fort Douglas, above SLC to keep an eye on the Mormons. Fort Douglas is still there and the guns still point down at the city, just in case.
2. Utah itself is becoming less and less Mormon. The Mormons are down to 60% and falling. It’s projected that the LDS will fall below 50% in a few decades. SLC, the Mormon Vatican, is majority nonMormon and usually has a nonMormon major. Once it was a liberal Democratic feminist woman.
The LDS church knows this and are doing everything they can to reverse it. There are frequent orders to the baby factories to up the production and pump out more Mormons.
Marcus Ranum
September 10, 2012 at 2:07 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Another attempt to impose sharia law. :(
raven
September 10, 2012 at 2:12 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Utah is projected to go nonMormon majority in 2030.
The LDS church knows this. The Deseret News is owned by the Mormon church.
They are trying anything and everything they can think of to prevent it.
Chiroptera
September 10, 2012 at 2:19 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
raven, #23:
But how many years until the Mormons are too small a proportion of the population that they can’t even gerrymander the legislative districts to maintain their legislative majority?
raven
September 10, 2012 at 2:27 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Good question and hard to say.
There is no love lost between the Mormons and nonMormons in Utah. I’m sure a lot of the nonMormons are counting down the days until that happens.
It just gets harder and harder to rule over and oppress the Pagans and Gentiles when your percentage is declining.
Gregory in Seattle
September 10, 2012 at 3:04 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
So Ryan would be perfectly happy if Utah mandated Mormon prayer? If a state delegated that decision to the school districts, and various districts mandated Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan or Voudun prayers?
jeevmon
September 10, 2012 at 4:24 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ah, state’s rights. The old dog whistle to those who thought that everything started going to hell in 1865 when the federal government limited a state’s right to decide what constituted property.