I spend a lot of time documenting the blatant lies told by Republicans, but Democrats lie too (just look at President Obama’s lies about the State Secrets Privilege for a good example). The liberal blog Talking Points Memo criticizes Kathleen Sebelius for making false claims about Ryan’s Medicare plan:
But Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius attacked the plan with a claim based on an outmoded analysis.
“What’s missing from the Romney-Ryan plan for Medicare is Medicare,” she told the Charlotte, N.C. crowd. “Instead of the Medicare guarantee, Republicans would give seniors a voucher that limits what is covered, costing seniors as much as $6,400 more a year.” …
It’s misleading — or at best unsubstantiated. The figure is based on the Congressional Budget Office’s scoring of Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan released in 2011. It does not apply to his less harsh2012 Medicare blueprint — which mirrors the Romney campaign’s plan.
The key differences between the two approaches: the 2011 Ryan plan phases out traditional Medicare entirely, beginning in 10 years, and provides private insurance vouchers that grow at the rate of inflation — lower than typical health care cost growth. Romney’s 2012 plan, by contrast, sustains traditional Medicare as a government-run insurance option and pegs the value of the vouchers to the price of the second cheapest policy in the system. That is its common thread with Ryan’s 2012 plan, which also caps program growth below GDP+0.5. It’s unclear who bears the costs if insurer bids exceed the growth cap.
The Romney/Ryan Medicare plan is bad enough, and it certainly will raise costs for seniors, that it shouldn’t require relying on old, outdated numbers to attack it.
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Zeno
September 9, 2012 at 11:10 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
The Romney/Ryan team has made lying (“We built that!”) its campaign theme. Democrats would do well to expose the constant Republican lying and avoid undercutting the message by indulging in lies and exaggerations of their own. Of course, it’s an election year, so I suppose exaggerations are inevitable. Perhaps if we buckle down and just avoid outright falsehoods. It’s better to keep sticking it to the Republicans as they lie their heads off.
unbound
September 9, 2012 at 11:18 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Yep. This is something I’ve had to explain to my kids. You can vote for the party that lies to you 6 times out of 10, or vote for the party that lies to you 9 times out of 10.
How sad of a country have we become…
democommie
September 9, 2012 at 1:02 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“You can vote for the party that lies to you 6 times out of 10, or vote for the party that lies to you 9 times out of 10.”
I don’t really want to vote for the honest OR dishonest reptilicans. Oh, wait, did you mean that the democrats’ campaign lies are in a proportion of 2/3 that of the GOP? I think that might require a citation.
Politicians, all of them, lie–because they’re human and it’s a human failing. Democrats lie far less, in terms of demonizing their opponents OR attributing undesirable character traits to their GOP opponents. Democratically/liberally inclined pundits, writers and party organizers also lie far less than their GOP opponents.
wholething
September 9, 2012 at 1:15 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
The difficulty for the Democrats is keeping up with the current position of Rmoney. What Sebelius said was true at one point but is now either out-of-date, prescient, or actually correct. Who knows what their actual position is when it is on an Etch-A-Sketch?
D. C. Sessions
September 9, 2012 at 3:06 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Which means that the healthiest geezers will take a cheap plan that doesn’t cover much, lowering the coupons for all of the others, perhaps including the Government-run version (which is the only one that will accept the oldest and least healthy.)
It’s called “adverse selection.”
As for the growth cap, well, that’s what death panels are for. Or maybe just lowering coverage percentage for the Government plan to what’s left after the more efficient private plans are paid for. Who knows? Going into details would be suicidal.
shripathikamath
September 9, 2012 at 3:08 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I do not get the point of this. We all know that political parties distort, lie, and exaggerate.
Are they even close when it comes to the number of lies, the amount of distortion, or the viciousness of the dishonest exaggerations?
100:1? 1000:1?
When you finish with the 999, you can start on the 1. Look, no one is considering you more objective if you covered one Democratic misrepresentation. Not the Democrats. And certainly not the GOTP members.
Meanwhile, no mention of the media giving Romney a free pass.
carolineborduin
September 9, 2012 at 5:23 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
On the substance of the issue, Romney/Ryan will do terrible things to Medicare and Social Security. But we Democrats need to be on our toes if Obama is elected to make sure he doesn’t mess with Medicare or Social Security himself in pursuit of the grand bargain.
tomh
September 9, 2012 at 6:03 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
How are you supposed to keep up? If you claim that Romney will repeal Obamacare are you lying because today he said he wants to keep parts of the plan? It doesn’t make sense. Any facts and figures you quote from Republicans are likely to be outmoded, if not today, then tomorrow.
Ichthyic
September 10, 2012 at 2:14 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
FWIW, the next time someone blames Obama for not closing Guantanamo?
read:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/01/09/135179/congress-rule-keep-obama-from.html
JasonTD
September 10, 2012 at 6:19 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
democommie @3 wrote,
Not really. They lie because it works in getting them votes. The lies sound true to those that are already on their side and thus stir up the bases of each party. A well crafted lie will also sound true enough to the uncommitted that lean their direction to get some of them to vote for them or against the other guy. But the number of voters so turned off by one candidate’s lies that it actually loses them those votes is likely to be vanishingly small. Most people just don’t pay enough attention to find out when a campaign ad or speech contains lies, distortions, etc. And with both sides lying regularly, cynicism wins out and people just learn to expect the lying.
Until voters actually hold politicians accountable for telling the whole truth, we’ll continue to suffer through ‘spin’, misrepresentations, and outright lying.
democommie
September 10, 2012 at 8:11 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Jason TD:
Your comment expands on and, in no way, refutes my point. Humans lie–for a variety of reasons. There may be some sort of social darwinism involved in politicians being more ready or convincing liars than their constituents but that is a different subject than “humans lie”.
There is not a person I know who does not lie–not one–and some of them are damned good at it.
Ichthyic
September 10, 2012 at 9:35 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
There is not a person I know who does not lie–not one–and some of them are damned good at it.
so then there IS a person you know that is completely honest.
celticlight
September 10, 2012 at 11:41 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
democommie says “Democrats lie far less, in terms of demonizing their opponents OR attributing undesirable character traits to their GOP opponents.”
What rock do you live under ??? Time to turn off the filter, put down whatever you are smokin or drinking and actually listen to the debate. I say congratulations to Ed for an honest view of things. Both sides are about equally prone to misrepresent the other’s position. Exp. Obama excels at using a strawman arguement. On the other hand, I do not believe he hates the country or is a true socialist as the Republicans like to portray him.
democommie
September 10, 2012 at 2:51 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ichthyic:
“so then there IS a person you know that is completely honest.”
I don’t follow your logic.
celticlight:
“Both sides are about equally prone to misrepresent the other’s position. Exp. Obama excels at using a strawman arguement. On the other hand, I do not believe he hates the country or is a true socialist as the Republicans like to portray him.”
You’re a lying sack of shit.
Ichthyic
September 10, 2012 at 5:26 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I don’t follow your logic.
*sigh*
if everyone you know, is a liar, that would include yourself, so you must be lying about saying that everyone you know is a liar.
sadly, I actually thought you wrote it deliberately as a joke!
Pierce R. Butler
September 10, 2012 at 6:18 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Speaking of Dems who lie – TPM also has an interesting piece about a Maryland congressional candidate who just dropped out of the race, after her own state party (!?!) caught her out on having voted in the same elections in two states.
Cue bellows of “Democrat vote fraud!!!1!” in three, two, …
democommie
September 10, 2012 at 10:05 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“if everyone you know, is a liar, that would include yourself, so you must be lying about saying that everyone you know is a liar.”
Well, I AM a liar, as is everyone else I’ve ever known. The freguency and magnitude of lying is variable. I’ve never in my life met someone who did not lie about something over the course of our relationship. That does not mean that everyone lies constantly–I see a distinction there.