Rep. Debbie Riddle, one of the looniest members of the Texas state legislature — and imagine the competition for that title; this is, after all, the same body that includes Warren Chisum, who once sent a memo to his colleagues urging them to visit a website that claimed that heliocentricity is a satanic plot — has a suggestion for the schools in her state:
Formal prayer has been taken out of our schools. How about this idea? Read from the book of Proverbs from the Bible. Proverbs is a book of wisdom. Proverbs is in the Holy Scriptures for Christians and Jews. As for other religions – the wisdom won’t do them any harm. This nation was built on Christian and Jewish values and the Bible was actually used in the classrooms in our early days. To toss the very foundation on which our country was built because of political correctness is wrong and we see the results in society today. I say have a reading out of Proverbs each day in our classrooms. What do you think?
I think you’re a clueless dolt who shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions on anything more complicated than whether to put the toilet paper on with the flap on the front or the back. Incidentally, the book of Proverbs is particularly full of passages encouraging parents to beat their children.
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ambassadorfromverdammt
August 2, 2012 at 9:35 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Are there any passages encouraging voters to beat their reps?
Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)
August 2, 2012 at 9:44 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Well of course she’d want people to read Proverbs. She’s in it.
Alverant
August 2, 2012 at 9:48 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
@ambass
I know of no bible passages that encourage people electing their leaders. I’ve asked many people who say the USA was founded on biblical principles to point out such a passage and have yet to hear an example. (Threats, insults, and silence yes, but no examples.)
Synfandel
August 2, 2012 at 9:49 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
She might not be able to handle decisions about toilet paper roll orientation. I believe the book of Proverbs is mute on the issue.
Spanish Inquisitor
August 2, 2012 at 9:49 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
@2
I love reading comments on FtB. There are so many people here that know their Bible better than the Bible thumpers.
Synfandel
August 2, 2012 at 9:52 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
@Spanish Inquisitor (#5)
That’s why we’re here. We’ve read it.
dogfightwithdogma
August 2, 2012 at 9:53 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I am pretty sure that one of the cases decided in the 1960s ruled it unconstitutional to have school-led or school-sanctioned devotional readings.
But just as there is nothing prohibiting a student from silently praying anytime she or he wishes, there is also no prohibition on a student reading a passage from any part of the bible to themselves at any time so long as they are not disruptive in the classroom or inattentive during a lesson.
Nice zinger there Zinc Avenger! lol. This was one of those few times where the bible actually had something useful and insightful to offer.
Larry
August 2, 2012 at 9:56 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I don’t see what could possibly go wrong
birgerjohansson
August 2, 2012 at 9:57 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
As a kid in Swedish schol in the late 1960s-early to middle 1970s we still had prayer and some Bible reading. I can testify that the boredom turned off any vestigal religious potential I might have had.
But math was fun.
d cwilson
August 2, 2012 at 10:06 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Synfandel @6:
That’s why I always come down on the side of encouraging kids to crack open the Babble and read it, cover to cover. Nothing creates more atheists.
Michael Heath
August 2, 2012 at 10:13 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
d cwilson writes:
Well for me, rejecting Christianity as true was based on how the Bible stacked-up relative to what scientists, academics, and other experts understand. Not just their conclusions, but the process they use to arrive at those conclusions. vs. the near-always dishonest and logically defective arguments of Christians. And the more I learned when I was young the more I realized how dishonest and abusive conservative Christians are towards others, especially their own children and those in their community.
democommie
August 2, 2012 at 10:14 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m all for it! I think that kids should read the Wholly Babble, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita… Well, you know where this is going.
cottonnero
August 2, 2012 at 10:25 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’d rather read 5,000 fortune cookies or the collected works of the Sphinx from Mystery Men.
It’s no surprise she chose Proverbs; it’s the conservative book in the Wisdom tradition in the Bible. Job, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon would be harder to teach without being at least slightly critical toward orthodoxy.
eric
August 2, 2012 at 10:37 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
1:26-28 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me…
[All together now: by their love, by their love...]
3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
[Spectacular lesson for schoolkids]
12:9 He that is despised, and hath a servant, is better than he that honoureth himself, and lacketh bread
[Remember kiddies: God wants you to keep servants]
And of course, who could forget the classic of classics. That all-time favorite proverb of sadistic principals everywhere:
13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes
wscott
August 2, 2012 at 10:53 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“He who questions training only trains himself at asking questions.”
Modusoperandi
August 2, 2012 at 10:55 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
dogfightwithdogma “But just as there is nothing prohibiting a student from silently praying anytime she or he wishes, there is also no prohibition on a student reading a passage from any part of the bible to themselves at any time so long as they are not disruptive in the classroom or inattentive during a lesson.”
Pah! Everybody knows that Bible reading isn’t effective unless it’s forced! Just like prayer isn’t effective unless you tell everybody you’re doing it!
Mr Ed
August 2, 2012 at 10:57 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I read the bible in high school and enjoyed it. I took a literature course on mythology and we looked at various classic myths and modern literature to see the elements of a myth and how they were used. We then read the gospels and were able to see how they too were myths. This was a Catholic school and no one had a problem. This was of course a different time when the idea of a religious education was to produce adults who could make rational, moral decisions not mindless followers who could spout quotes.
StevoR
August 2, 2012 at 11:23 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Sister of Tom Riddle, whose name is an anagram that cannot be named?
frog
August 2, 2012 at 11:37 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Mr. Ed @17: In had a literature course in college–at a public college in liberal New York City, in the 1990s–that attempted to read some of the bible as literature. In a class of 30 or so students, maybe two could understand the concept of “bible as literature, not holy book.” Most were just confused or bored, and several students were really freaked out at trying to read it in the same way we had read the Iliad.
After one day (we were supposed to spend three on this topic), my prof just gave up in frustration and moved on to the next part of the course. It was really awful.
Granted, I had what I feel was a “bad section”–when you unfortunately end up in a class overloaded with stupid people and unmotivated students. But damn, that was probably the single worst glass-meeting I ever had in college.
gshevlin
August 2, 2012 at 12:21 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Well, the Facebook link is dead…I guess that the response was not what Rep. Riddle wanted to read…
John Pieret
August 2, 2012 at 12:23 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
The post seems to have disappeared from Riddle’s Facebook page … quelle surprise … but her twitter feed still has a pointer to it.
fastlane
August 2, 2012 at 12:38 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I like how she pre-empts the inclusiveness of other religions with this “As for other religions – the wisdom won’t do them any harm.” Of course, she probably wouldn’t feel the same way about the occasional sharing of hadiths, right? I mean, the wisdom won’t do the good little xian children any harm.
patrickashton
August 2, 2012 at 1:06 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Here’s my theory. Rep. Debbie Riddle is a closet liberal and secretly wants to fund the ACLU. By suggesting this, she can accomplish her objective without upsetting her conservative voters.
busterggi
August 2, 2012 at 1:27 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
[Mr. Furious tries to balance a hammer on his head]
Mr. Furious: Why am I doing this, again?
The Sphinx: When you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you will head off your foes with a balanced attack.
Mr. Furious: And why am I wearing the watermelon on my feet?
The Sphinx: [looks at the watermelon on Mr. Furious' feet] I don’t remember telling you to do that.
Best superhero movie ever. Maybe.
fifthdentist
August 2, 2012 at 1:44 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
You mean that book that says women are to STFU and obey men, make sammiches and try not to get their icky red shame-juice all over the furniture?
thebookofdave
August 2, 2012 at 3:12 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
You’re too generous, Ed. There’s something underhanded about her toilet roll scheme as well.
jnorris
August 2, 2012 at 8:51 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Why doesn’t she want the little kiddies to read the Song of Songs / Songs of Solomon?
coffeehound
August 2, 2012 at 8:52 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Someone in Texas please roll up the constitution and hit her with it.
Repeatedly.
abb3w
August 2, 2012 at 9:20 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
She took down the post, after it started getting feedback… and after she somewhat got the point, when a Christian teacher explained to Representative Riddle what the problem was. Google Cache still turns up some of the pieces of the commentary.
I don’t expect she’ll get the point well enough to keep from making similar mistakes in the future, but she’s at least still capable of learning if someone speaks slowly and uses small words. This appears to seriously disqualify her from the running for the “looniest members of the Texas state legislature” competition.
iknklast
August 2, 2012 at 9:35 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
When I was in high school, we read the book of Matthew in our Great Books class (a hasty substitution when parents showed up with tar and feathers at the school because the Communist Manifesto was on the reading list). If everyone could have this type of experience, I’d say go for it. We read it the same way we would have the CM: as a work of literature, did it stack up? As non-fiction, did it stack up? My parents – and many others (about 70 – 2 for each student) would have been horrified at our discussions. Most of us dismissed it as an interesting story, but readily saw the problems. The teacher taught us to read critically.
Unfortunately, most children aren’t going to read the Bible critically; they’re going to skip over the bad parts, the weird parts (well, not the sexy parts), and come away with a handful of platitudinous verses they can fling at infidels of all stripes. Without a solid grounding in critical thinking and science to go alongside it, I don’t recommend reading the Bible. Most Christians I know don’t even see the strange, violent weirdness when they read the Bible – they skip straight to John 3:16 and the Beatitudes, and never question the wisdom of those verses (I am never impressed by John 3:16 – the meaning is abhorrent). In Texas, any teacher who dared to teach the way my teacher did would be burned alive. Yes, my school was in Oklahoma, but that was 30 years ago, before helicopter parents knew every single word that came out of the teacher’s mouth – when they were glad we went off to school because we weren’t bothering them for a while.
shoeguy
August 3, 2012 at 12:46 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“Rep. Debbie Riddle, one of the looniest members of the Texas state legislature” Ed, your going to have to narrow that down a bit.
billydee
August 3, 2012 at 11:12 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“This nation was built on Christian and Jewish values…” WTF? Christian values are not Jewish values. The Jewish part was added fairly recently because, you know, those people control the world and you don’t want to piss them off.
Catholics and Protestants have different versions of the Lord’s Prayer, the bible, and the Ten Commandments, so by chosing one version over the other one is refining the religion one is trying to establish.
Texas State Rep Wants Bible Reading in Schools | Dispatches from … | Christian Dailys
August 2, 2012 at 12:08 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
[...] to have school-led or school-sanctioned devotional readings. … Read this article: Texas State Rep Wants Bible Reading in Schools | Dispatches from … ← Get Your Inspiration Here | Clear-FX.com | Automotive Business … Talk Wisdom: [...]