American Atheists is suing Bradford County, Florida over a Ten Commandments monument that was placed at the entrance to the county courthouse. The county wants to avoid a legal fight and has told the group that placed it there to remove it, but that group is refusing to do so.
The American Atheists believe the monument outside the courthouse is unconstitutional, so they sued. To avoid a costly legal fight, the county asked the group that sponsored the monument to remove it.
In a letter to the Community Men’s Fellowship written June 11, county manager Harry Hatcher wrote: “Please accept this letter as Bradford County’s formal notice that the Community Men’s Fellowship must remove it’s Ten Commandments monument from the Bradford County Courthouse property immediately.”
Two weeks later, Community Men’s Fellowship wrote back: “We have prayerfully considered your request and have determined that we will not comply with the County’s order.”
Terry Brown, the attorney representing Bradford County, said the county wants to avoid spending tax dollars to fight over a religious marker.
“The county doesn’t have the ability to move it without accruing a very substantial cost in doing that,” Brown said. “So somebody needs to pay for it, and it doesn’t need to be the taxpayer.”
Brown said Community Men’s Fellowship will probably be included in a lawsuit if it refuses to remove its marker.
I suspect this is all just posturing. The county could certainly remove it themselves without a lot of expense. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
37 comments
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StevoR
July 13, 2012 at 1:06 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Cover it up? Would that work?
StevoR
July 13, 2012 at 1:07 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I mean cover the Ten Commandments monument with something so it isn’t visible even if its not actually removed.
Would the county courthouse be able to do that and that act as compliance?
feralboy12
July 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
That’s crap. Those things break when you drop them.
I read it in the Bible.
TGAP Dad
July 13, 2012 at 1:16 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Since the county has identified this item as unwanted detritus, and the “owner” refuses to remove it, then it would seem that the county may remove it and bill the owner for the cost of disposal, just like you would with an abandoned car. In some communities, unwanted items left on public property or rights of way are litter, and any member of the public may remove them.
I hereby volunteer my services to the people of Bradford County to dispose of this unwanted item. I’ll use my own sledgehammer and wheelbarrow, and restore the site, as much as I can, to its original condition. Done and done!
oranje
July 13, 2012 at 1:24 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I hope the conversation about them (not) being the foundation of our government commences as well. The sooner we can disabuse the public of that obvious fallacy, the better.
machintelligence
July 13, 2012 at 1:26 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I would think a modest sized front end loader and a dump truck (which most counties’ public works departments have in great plenty) would be adequate to handle the job. Send the bill, plus dump fees, to the Community Men’s Fellowship.
cswella
July 13, 2012 at 1:27 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
If I lived near there, I would take it down for free. How much fun would it be to take a sledgehammer and railroad ties to demolish it?
theschwa
July 13, 2012 at 1:27 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Instead, what about a hand chisel and some clever editing? Now it can be 9 Commandments? 13? It is not vandalism to county property now…
Big Boppa
July 13, 2012 at 1:48 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“The county doesn’t have the ability to move it without accruing a very substantial cost in doing that,” Brown said. “So somebody needs to pay for it, and it doesn’t need to be the taxpayer.”
I call bullshit. What are the chances that there’s at least one member of the Community Men’s Fellowship connected to the Bradford County board?
d cwilson
July 13, 2012 at 1:53 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Never going to happen. People prefer their myths to facts and they’re only too happy to listen to professional liars like David Barton.
What I want to know is, why are these groups so obsessed with posting these monuments on public property? If Community Men’s Fellowship put it on their front lawn or in front of a church, no one would object. Why do they need to stick the taxpayers with the bill for these things?
Randomfactor
July 13, 2012 at 1:53 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Sell it to the highest bidder, with removal part of the deal. Problem solved.
Brandon
July 13, 2012 at 1:55 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I really don’t get the wingnut obsession with the Ten Commandments. I realize they few it as a symbol of their religion, but that’s not really consistent with the excuses given for why they don’t have to follow the rules from Leviticus (NT voids such rules). I frequently hear it claimed that the Constitution is based on the Ten Commandments, but this just has to be a result of uninformed people thinking, “both have ten commandment/amendments!” since they otherwise bear absolutely no resemblance to each other.
Is there something to their love of the Ten Commandments other than it being a marker of their tribe that I’m missing?
Randomfactor
July 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Why do they need to stick the taxpayers with the bill for these things?
Because in this case the guy who asked them to remove the monument is ALSO the guy who accepted it in the first place (and, IIRC, a member of the group which donated it…)
The Lorax
July 13, 2012 at 2:11 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m with theschwa. Let’s come up with a few additions to that old list~
theschwa
July 13, 2012 at 2:26 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m with theschwa. Let’s come up with a few additions to that old list~
Thou shalt not keep slaves.
Thou shalt not commit rape.
Thou shalt not commit assault.
Thou Shalt not keep up with the Kardashians.
democommie
July 13, 2012 at 2:41 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
That is not the only monument. According to this (http://gofbw.com/News.asp?ID=13223) it’s one of eight, all of them paid for and owned by a private individual.
The article cited mentions a weight of six tons for the monument. A moderately sized Kubota, Volvo or Caterpillar could probably lift the monument and drop it into the back of a 10 wheel dumptruck. Since it’s likely the county’s DPW already has he equipment available it’s much more likely that someobody is lying through their fucking teeth.
Fuck KKKristianity it all of its many perversions.
paulnewcomb
July 13, 2012 at 2:46 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I think an islamic monument should be put up right beside it. That might make them rethink things…
wholething
July 13, 2012 at 3:10 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Of course they are lying. The same donor had given a monument to nearby Dixie County a few years ago and it was ruled unconstitutional last year but is still up. The Bradford commissioners were aware of that lawsuit when they accepted this monument. In 2007, the city of Starke, the Bradford County seat, had an illuminated crucifix on the water tower that was ruled unconstitutional.
They should at least take down “Thou shalt not bear false witness” because they aren’t using it. They worship the Ten Commandments but obeying them are for others to do.
Dave, the Kwisatz Haderach
July 13, 2012 at 3:18 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I have a few pieces here in my equipment yard that could shift that, no problem. I’d be happy to loan them out for a good cause, no charge. Unfortunately, the yard is in Alberta. Someone is going to have to offer up the stupid amount of money necessary to haul it down to Florida and back. Any volunteers?
Alternately, we could confuse the hell out of the Xtians by replacing their monument with the actual 10 commandments. You know, the ones that supposedly got chiseled out on the stone tablets, the ones that religious people conveniently forget. I think it is critically important that all courthouses feature large plaques reminding people never to boil a goat in its mother’s milk.
jeroenmetselaar
July 13, 2012 at 3:51 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
prayerfully
???
I wankerfully laughed at that word.
Larry
July 13, 2012 at 3:52 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Sledge hammer: $20
Man to wield same: 15 minutes at $20/hour=$5
Removal on monument to stupidity: Priceless
D. C. Sessions
July 13, 2012 at 4:14 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ever watch a tomcat spraying to mark territory?
Dr X
July 13, 2012 at 4:23 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I wonder if it could be removed for free by a salvager. Someone might be able to make some nice granite countertops out of it.
D. C. Sessions
July 13, 2012 at 5:21 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Regarding our stellar representation in Washington:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/13/13-reasons-why-this-is-the-worst-congress-ever/
D. C. Sessions
July 13, 2012 at 5:22 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Wrong thread, sorry.
abb3w
July 13, 2012 at 5:52 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
It’s a nice piece of rock; probably worth something to a local sculptor, even if it’s not quite a virgin blank. Add another vote for the “treat it as abandoned property, auction it with removal a condition”. Though I’d also suggest terms should include immediate payment, and forfeiture of the payment if it’s not removed within 24 hour after the close of auction. That way, it’s either removed, or they can auctioning it off again in couple days.
F
July 13, 2012 at 6:28 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m sure a couple people with sledgehammers would be willing to do the county a favor for free.
Just how the hell does a private group plant a monument on gov property, anyway?
Benjamin "Derp" Geiger
July 13, 2012 at 7:03 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
If I were God, thou shalt not worship false Billy Idols
And thou shalt add the Book Of Flava Flav to the Bible
Thou shalt make fun of Hindus
Thou shalt not make a Speed 2
If I were God that’s what I’d do
Heavens no!
Hell yeah!
calladus
July 13, 2012 at 7:19 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Sledge hammer is not a bad idea, but what if we went a bit further.
How about renting the sledge hammer for $1 a swing? All proceeds to go to a secular charity of our choice?
Zeno
July 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
It’s a good time to revisit Stephen Colbert’s interview of Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, a vigorous supporter of the Ten Commandments — although he doesn’t know them.
frankb
July 13, 2012 at 8:28 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
It seems to me that a six ton monument can stand up to an awful lot of sledgehammering. Maybe some mining equiment like a drill and dynamite can reduce the size of the project?
Joey Maloney
July 14, 2012 at 4:19 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Thou shalt understandeth the First Amendment before thou openest thy piehole.
maxamillion
July 14, 2012 at 4:33 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Reminds me of this from Sam Harrs (The End of Faith) http://blog.gaiam.com/quotes/authors/sam-harris/57819
I like Sam Harris’ suggested response.
jnorris
July 14, 2012 at 10:58 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Let’s combine StevoR @ #1 and paulnewcomb @ #17 and cover it with a Muslim monument. Or auction it off.
dingojack
July 14, 2012 at 11:12 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
jnorris – nah, pull it out of the ground and impound it ’till they agree to take it away. Then charge the Christian Friendship Society $100/hr for having to go to the inconvience of doing so, when they simply could have taken it away themselves in the first place for a few hundred bucks.
It’d make them think twice before doing something like it again.
;) Dingo
birgerjohansson
July 14, 2012 at 4:51 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Isn’t there an alternative set of ten commandments? The one with “don’t boil the sacrifice goat in its mother’s milk” .
Also, a command to destroy the sacred sites of other gods…
Inscribe that alternate set of commandments on the stone, to show the inherent contradictions in OT.
StevoR
July 15, 2012 at 11:10 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
@34. jnorris :
Or, better yet, how about covering it with a Karma sutra -illustrated edition to really (metaphorically) stick it to ‘em? ;-)