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Jun 15 2012

Wingnuts Still Complaining About Obama Bowing to Saudi King

The right wing is still freaking out about President Obama showing a little cultural understanding by bowing when he met the king of Saudi Arabia. Jeffrey Daly, a pastor who has a new book out, went on an AFA radio show and said that doing so ripped God’s hand of protection from the country and completed the descent into secularism (if only!).

So I’m sure Daly was making the same argument when George W. Bush kissed the Saudi king and held hands with him, right?

Right? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

74 comments

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  1. 1
    dingojack

    and then again ‘the Prince of Darkness’ a.k.a Dick Cheney heartily shook hands with the dictator so evul we had to invade his country lest we discover WMDs via ‘a mushroom cloud’.

    But, but that was completely different, right wingnuts?

    Dingo

  2. 2
    jolly

    Bow to the king? George II let Saudi’s fly out of the U.S. when no one was allowed to when their fellow countrymen flew planes into buildings. Talk about bowing down, more like kissing ass.

  3. 3
    slc1

    Re dingojack @ #1

    I have a flash for Mr. Dingo, that’s Donald Rumsfeld shaking Saddam Hussein’s hand.

  4. 4
    eamick

    Bow to the king? George II let Saudi’s fly out of the U.S. when no one was allowed to when their fellow countrymen flew planes into buildings. Talk about bowing down, more like kissing ass.

    I’m afraid that’s not true.

  5. 5
    jnorris

    What exactly is/was Jeffrey Daly’s god protecting the USA from?
    Will/has Daly ever documented when his god’s hand protected the USA?

    Where was Daly’s god’s hand during the 1918 flu pandemic? If the “God’s Hand of Protection” was withdrawn then, what caused god to do so?

  6. 6
    raven

    I remember that picture of George Bush walking hand in hand with the Saudi King.

    Oh well. This is a religious three-fer for the fundies. They get their hate, lies, and hypocrisy sacraments done all at once.

  7. 7
    flatlander100

    Yes, this is more wingnut right extremist Christer lunacy.

    That said, no President of the United States should be bowing to any monarch any time any where. Where bowing is a normal form of showing respect [ Japan perhaps], the equivalent of shaking hands, fine. But where bowing implies an inferior paying homage to an alleged divine-right hereditary monarch or noble, then no. This country was born, after all, in a revolution not against a monarch, but against the idea of monarchy [and nobility] itself.

    Not a major gaffe on the President’s part. But a gaffe none the less.

  8. 8
    dingojack

    “But I doubt it’ll make much difference. I know it’s an article of immutable faith amongst American “lefties” that it’s only ever the other guy’s party that does something bad“.
    - Cranky Franky

    Hmmm – why does that sound so familiar… oh yeah, that’s right!
    Projection – the last remaining tactic of the American Right.

    Dingo

  9. 9
    dingojack

    SLC – oops, you’re right of course, still the point holds.
    Dingo

  10. 10
    Ellie

    Are any of them complaining about Katie Couric curtseying to Queen Elizabeth? I’m going to guess not, as everyone to whom I’ve complained about it, seems to think I’m overreacting. Bowing or bending the knee…it’s still something US citizens do not do when meeting foreign rulers.

    Not sure if this was a “cultural” bow or obeisance. I’m assuming the former, because I can’t picture Mr. Obama performing the latter.

  11. 11
    raven

    and said that doing so ripped God’s hand of protection from the country

    So how do we know god was protecting the USA any way? The USA isn’t mentioned in the bible anywhere.

    This is just something the fundies made up. All faith claims are just voices in someone’s head.

    I wonder what they will say about their god and his magic hands if and when the USA elects a nonXian president. Such as M. Romney.

  12. 12
    slc1

    Re raven @ #11

    The USA has had nominally non-Christian presidents before. John Adams was a Unitarian, Herbert Hoover and Richard Nixon were Quakers.

  13. 13
    coragyps

    I’d forgotten that Tricky Dicky was a Quaker. Irony overload must have pushed it out of my brain.

  14. 14
    Nemo

    I’m with flatlander100 on this. I hated that Obama did that. But it’s hard to see what’s “secular” about it.

    I’d note that even in Japan, bows are tricky, since there’s often a subtle difference in the degree of bowing — superiors bow less.

  15. 15
    Doubting Thomas

    My personal reaction is that “king” ought to be bowing to us, all of us, for the simple fact that he wouldn’t be a king at all were it not for all the oil money we’ve poured into his little kingdom.

  16. 16
    Nemo

    @Ellie #10:

    Are any of them complaining about Katie Couric curtseying to Queen Elizabeth?

    Katie Couric doesn’t represent the United States, just herself, or maybe her network.

  17. 17
    Marcus Ranum

    Of course he should bow!!! He’s just an elected representative/normal human being, but a _king_ has the divine imprimatur and a blood-line. You’d think the authoritarian right would be lining up to grovel at the feet of a real _king_, too. That’s what they seem to most desperately want. Isn’t it?

  18. 18
    dingojack

    Doubting Thomas – all that ‘oil money’ poured into Saudi Arabia wouldn’t be for all that oil we’ve pumped out from their country by any chance?
    Nahhh, money for nothing, right?
    Dingo

  19. 19
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Insteda of bowing Obama should have punched the Saudi monarch in the face, drained a beer while giving him a good kicking then taken all their oil (in extra large tanks on airforce one) and waltzed outta there.

    That might’ve satisified the Republicans – barely!

  20. 20
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    PS. I’d like to have seen that!

  21. 21
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @Doubting Thomas :

    My personal reaction is that “king” ought to be bowing to us, all of us, for the simple fact that he wouldn’t be a king at all were it not for all the oil money we’ve poured into his little kingdom.

    Yes, indeed -and the USA has protected SaudiArabia and theotheroil shiekdoms fromthe threat of Saddam’s Iraq and the Ayatollah’s Iran.

    Many of the leaders in the Arab world are secretlycheeringisreal on and hpoping itandthe USA dofight and stop Iran which they lack the guts to come out an say openly.
    That was even reported in Wikileaks.

    They howl and froth and whip the masses into hysteria at teh eevvull American “imperialists” and the unnamable “zionist entity” (Israel, dudes, the nation is called Israel and its there to stay, get over it!) on the one hand whilst privatley depending onUS and isreali military protectionfor their very lives and fee existence on the other hand.

    Ther hypocrisy is far from limited to the American, Western side of the ledger & its time we pressured the Arabs more and sucked up to them less and demanded a bit more honesty and decent behaviour from ‘em.

  22. 22
    dingojack

    Ah Stevo – Iran-contra. History fail.
    Iran ≠ Iraqi ≠ Saudi Arabia. Geography fail.
    Dingo

  23. 23
    naturalcynic

    My personal reaction is that “king” ought to be bowing to us, all of us, for the simple fact that he wouldn’t be a king at all were it not for all the oil money we’ve poured into his little kingdom.

    It’s an ambiguous situation. Maybe we should be acknowledging that we are in his debt, literally. He does have so much of our money.

  24. 24
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @22. Dingojack : Huh? Wut? Why?

    Fail you reckon? Fail what?

    Are you saying the Saudi’s weren’t threatened by Iraq and that they didn’t fear they were next after Kuwait in 1991 – and they would’ve been had the USA let Saddam get away with it?

    Are you seruiously saying – in defiance of wikileaks – that the Saudis even now aren’t privately, hypocritically, secretly urging on an Isreali &/or US attack to protect them along with the rest of the planet from the threat of the Iranian dictator Ahmadnihejad getting his claws on nuclear weapons?

    The Saudis are one sect of islam, the Irnians anotherand theyhate each otehralmost as muchas they hate everyone else. Which is to say a lot.

    No Muslim nation can be trusted and all are frankly hypocrites playing off the others and everybody else.

    Just look at Pakistan, supposed ally that sheltered bin laden and supported the Taliban all along. That’s now jailed one of the people who helped find Bin Laden. Stuff ‘em. The whole lot of them.

    Oh & you missed maybe that the Muslim brotherhood has now taken over Egypt. So much for the “Arab spring” eh? The Arabs have been in permanent winter ever since Mohammad went mad in his cave, got his sword out and forced his frapped up cult on the rest of them.

  25. 25
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @23. naturalcynic :

    I think you’re thinking of China not Saudi Arabia.

    And Saudi Arabia would be a province of Iraq just like Kuwait if Bush the elder hadn’t led the world against Saddam back in 1991. Just a pity he didn’t go on and finish the job properly then.

    And also thanks to Israel for taking out Saddam’s nuclear reactor at osirak in the 980′s too.

    We probably – you almost certainly – just have no idea how lucky we are that some people have stood up and fought the barbarians.

  26. 26
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    980′s = 1980s. Sigh.

  27. 27
    dingojack

    stevo – You apparently can’t (or won’t) differentiate between the disparate countries.
    Was Saudi Arabia threatened by the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait?
    No, not in the least, How do we know? By their own comments at the time.
    The Kuwaiti elite knew the Americans would intervene, although the invasion was a far too ‘gung-ho’ for their liking.
    I’m sorry to be the one to tell you, but your history is a little skewed (to say the least).
    Dingo

  28. 28
    footface

    Who the hell is this God guy, anyway?

    If Obama’s bow was, in fact, a breach of protocol or other innocent gaffe—that is, if it represented nothing more than an innocent mistake—only some jerky God would remove his protection from Obama’s country.

    Or… I guess they think it wasn’t really just a gaffe. They actually think Obama was showing us all what he really thinks! He was intentionally bowing before his true master!

  29. 29
    slc1

    Re StevoR @ #24

    Actually, the real dictator of Iran is the Ayatollah Khamenei. For the information of the Arab lovers like Mr. Raging Bee and Mr. Dingojack who comment here, the former Prime Minister of Spain had a meeting with the Ayatollah and quoted him as saying that a military conflict between Iran and the West was inevitable and that Israel must be, “wiped off the map.” I’m sure that the Glenn Greenwalds and the Juan Coles of the world will claim that former Prime Minister Azner is either lying or there was a mistranslation of what the Ayatollah said.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/former-spain-pm-russia-believes-israel-will-prevent-iran-nuclear-weapon-1.430867

  30. 30
    Chris from Europe

    former Prime Minister Aznar

    There’s no question at all after hearing that name: lying.

  31. 31
    Nibi

    Ellie

    Are any of them complaining about Katie Couric curtseying to Queen Elizabeth?

    But was it a deep curtsey?

  32. 32
    dan4

    @29″…the Arab lovers…”

    Why are you so bigoted against Arabs?

  33. 33
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ ^ Dan4 : I’m not SLC but I’d ask a question of my own for you here.

    Do you have any idea – any idea at all – of what Arabs have been doing and what they believe in and how they behave in the world? Do you?

    Here’s some Muslim related words you need to consider – badly :

    1. Terrorism.

    2. Oppression of women

    3. Anti-Semitism and threats of genocide against anothernation -Israel and its entire Jewish population.

    4. Shariah law. You think the death penalty in America is harsh? You think Westyern justice is problematic ? Sheesh wiat till you get a load of its Islamic equivalent.

    5. Jihads

    6. Fatwahs -eg. against Salman Rushdie

    7. “Prophet Mohmamad – a pedophile, murderer, rapist, war criminal, madman and general pyschpoath. Not a good man to worship or take as any sort of role model!

    8. Daniel Pearl. Look up his story on line or watch theLionheart movie. Or both. Imagine it was you or someone in your family. Also while on with it look up Margaret Hussan, beheaded in Iraq where she went to help. Look up Leon Klinghoffer and the Achille Lauro hijacking. Or a thousand plus others.

    9. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Quaida, the Taliban, Jemaah islamiyya, the PLO, the MuslimBrotehrhood, Hezbollah and somany other terrorist jihadist grpups. Look’em up. Seewhat they believe in. See how amenable to compromise and diplomacy they’re NOT. Think long and hard about the people they’ve killed and injured. Then change your flippin’ views on hat is and isn’t “bigotry” because in comparison to them NOTHING the Westerners say could be considered anythingshortof mild mannered and overly soft.

    10. Barbarianism – sums ‘em up really.

  34. 34
    Chris from Europe

    Do you have any idea – any idea at all – of what Arabs have been doing and what they believe in and how they behave in the world? Do you?

    Okay, so you are a racist idiot, but what about SLC?

  35. 35
    dingojack

    SLC – gencidal and content to repaet ‘the big lie’ until it becmes the truth, hmmm … who does that remind you of?
    Dingo

  36. 36
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @30. Chris from Europe :

    former Prime Minister Aznar
    There’s no question at all after hearing that name: lying.

    Really? Your evidence for that then would be .. what precisely? Your personal dislike of one politician?

    @29. slc1 : Cheers for that. Ahmadinejad certainly seems pretty much the dictator in charge but, yeah, the Ayatollah’s do get the final say and run their bastard puppet don’t they?

    @27. dingojack :

    stevo – You apparently can’t (or won’t) differentiate between the disparate countries.

    Eh? Whaddya mean? I think I’ve differentiated plenty.

    I noted that the various sub-sects of Islam hate and fear each other almost as much as they hate us. Did you totally miss the point of my earlier posts here or something?

    Was Saudi Arabia threatened by the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait? No, not in the least, How do we know? By their own comments at the time.

    At the time of the Kuwait war they begged to have US troops stationed on their own soil sand-dunes for their own protection and it was commonly held that Saudi Arabia was going to be Saddam Hussein’s next conquest. I remember it well. You clearly do not.

    Also the Saudi’s are wetting themselve srightnow over Iran’s nuclear program – and Syria’s which Israel also set back by bombing their reactor a few years ago too. Thankfully.

    You really don’t know or understand this Dingojack? I’ve already mentioned Wikileaks as one source of this which was published widely in the Western media. Your OTOhcan cite . well what exactly?

    The Kuwaiti elite knew the Americans would intervene, although the invasion was a far too ‘gung-ho’ for their liking.I’m sorry to be the one to tell you, but your history is a little skewed (to say the least).
    Dingo

    Well, that’s your opinion. But you haven’t actually pointed out anything factually inaccurate I’ve said yet. So, I’m basically going to say until you can support what you’re saying with actual evidence, I don’t think so. (Shrug.)

    I’m sure my perspective on the region’s history is different from yours but I’m also pretty sure I know what I’m talking about here. Not so sure ’bout *your* perspective which from *my* perspective seems to be the one that’s badly skewed.

    Question for you tho’ Dingojack : In retrospect, don’t you consider that Israel did the right thing in destroying Iraq’s nuclear reactor at Osirak in the 1980′s? And Syria’s a couple of years ago? And maybe doesn’t that say something precedentand history-lesson~wise about the best course of action on Iran today?

  37. 37
    dingojack

    Stevo – while your looking up things Muslims have done, try:
    medicine
    astronomy
    chemistry (via alchemy)
    physics
    mathmatics (particularly symbolic maths called algebra)
    & etc.
    Dingo

  38. 38
    dingojack

    Stevo – actually I think you’re ‘misremembering’ (being as kind as possible here), the Saudis were extremely reluctant to have American troops stationed on their soil.
    Perhaps you need to read a little further that Vic equivalent of ‘the Daily Terror’.
    Dingo

  39. 39
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ Chris from Eurabia : “Okay, so you are a racist idiot, but what about SLC?”

    You are a prize idiot, Chris.

    Since when has Islam been a race, a skin colour, as opposed to the religious death cult it is?

    Skin colour is utterly irrelevant here.

    OTOH, Religion and the pattern of behaviour and threats posed is NOT.

    How about you look up those ten things I mentioned check out the reality in facts and evidence and history – a lot more than ten pieces of evidence and things for you to think hard about there if you can, actually.

    Why not go do that.

    You might learn something if you are serious, decent human being and not just a Jihad apologist.

    Oh & if you are still determined to be the Jihadic Islamist appeaser and apologist that you now seem, well, I’m not sure about Ed’s rules but I know what I’d tell you to do if we were on Pharnygula and it involves deceased porcupines and certain parts of your anatomy!

  40. 40
    Chris from Europe

    StevoR, Mr. ETA-did-it’s previous behaviors are enough evidence for me.

    And you should notice that you won’t convince anyone who can think rationally to hate Muslims with your list. Maybe you should think about why that is.

  41. 41
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @37. dingojack : I think theGreeks got there way before them you’ll find.

    I’d also like you to stop dodging my questions and give me an answer.

    Would you like Iraq and Iran and Syria and AlQuaida and Hamas and Hezbollah to have WMDs and the ability to committ the mass genocide, they keep threatening Dingojack? Yes or no?

  42. 42
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Chris from Eurabia : LOL.

    Did you *really* imply that you and the other non-realist appeasers of Jihadist Islam are thinking rationally?!

    LOL. Nice one. Thanks for the laugh and proving again what an 8 carat solid osmium prize moron you are.

  43. 43
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Oh & I’m guessing your real name ain’t even “Chris” but something more like Abdul Khalid bin Mohammad right? You’re not fooling anyone.

  44. 44
    dingojack

    A) So you think the Greeks invented algebra? How cute
    B) you keep saying that*, perhaps we should nuke Vic? Yes or no, Stevo?
    Dingo
    —–
    * You have a plethora of citations from the usual hugely creditable echo chamber sources, natch!

  45. 45
    Chris from Europe

    Well, now you have exposed yourself as a completeley bigoted Geller-like idiot. Again, little Breivik from Australia.

  46. 46
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @38. dingojack says:

    Stevo – actually I think you’re ‘misremembering’ (being as kind as possible here), the Saudis were extremely reluctant to have American troops stationed on their soil.

    the late unlamed Jihadist pyschopath Osama Bin Laden and his Jihadist sub-group within the Saudi sheikdom might’ve been reluctant and hateful about it but the Saudi Monarchy and the more reasonable Saudi’s who actually ran the place? No, they were *very* keen to have the US there as protection from Saddam – and still are.

    Just as Wikileaks reported they are privately urging on Israel and the US to take Iran out too.

  47. 47
    dingojack

    From Victoria. (must be all that ‘arial ping-pong’, des smething t the brain-cells) :D
    Sorry Stevo couldn’t resist a stir.
    Dingo

  48. 48
    dingojack

    And Stevo you’d be happy to provide a linky, right?
    (Stupid O key!)
    Dingo

  49. 49
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @45.Chris Khalid Mohammad from Europe Eurabia :

    Wow what a convincing rebuttal – not!

    Take a look at those ten plus pieces of evidence. Try to answer them and my questions here honestly. If you have the guts.

    Which by your dishonesty in misleading with your false name you’ve already shown you lack.

    But think about them. Your Muslim faith is evil hateful murderous, homophobic, misogynist, barbaric nonsense.

    Look at Taslima Nasrin’s blog. Read Ali Hirsi Ali. Your fiath, your Muslim culture is just utterly vile and toxic and wrong and they and I’m calling you on it.

    PS. Add throwing acid in women’s faces and forcing them into burkas and stoning women accused of adultery to the list too. Suck a lemon.

  50. 50
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    ^ Typo fix – Ayaan Hirsi Ali :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

    Go read Salman Rushdie, check outsome danish cartoons and learn something!

  51. 51
    Chris from Europe

    You are a prize idiot, Chris.

    Since when has Islam been a race, a skin colour, as opposed to the religious death cult it is?

    I quoted the part about Arabs which is an ethnicity. So yes, it’s racism. And Islamophobia is not any better as bigotry as racism. It’s in many aspects equivalent.

    I know that you don’t get that into your brain.

    Skin colour is utterly irrelevant here.

    Doubtful, but the statement itself is telling.

  52. 52
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    PPS. Plus “honour” killings by dishonouable Muslim male murderers* mustn’t forget honour gkillings of women by their islamist cultural “norms”

    Or female genital mutilation and so much else.

    Islam is so despicable. Islam itself is the most bigoted major belief system around. There’s no “bigotry” in saying so just a metric shit-tonne of proof everywhere it exists.

    * Whyyes i do like alliteration don’t you?

  53. 53
    Chris from Europe

    You’re a rather obvious joke. I won’t waste more of my time of you. Why should I have to rebut such obvious nonsense and fail in respect to logic?

  54. 54
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ Khalid form Eurabia : How about being honest about your real name now yu’ve been sprung eh? Nopint keeping upyour pretence to be western.

    Islamophobia is a made up nonsense word and does NOT exist.

    By definition a phobia is an irrational fear and fear of things that really are to be feared ain’t phobic.

  55. 55
    Chris from Europe

    Just because I always correct this misinformation: “female genital mutilation” isn’t Islamic. It’s a pre-Islamic Egyptian practice.

  56. 56
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ ^ Khalid from Eurabia :

    Go tell that to the Muslim girls who undergone the procedure.

    Go on. Tell ‘em to their faces, I dare you!

    Post it on youtube. Under your real name please – which, btw., is what, Khalid? Am I right? Or is it Muhammad or Yasser or Osama or Basher? :-P

    PS. When youdo telle’m make sure youve got acoupel of mae witnesses close at hand -wouldn’t want the FGM’ed women or even you to get stoned for adultury for being alone with a woman for a minute would we?

  57. 57
    Chris from Europe

    @ Khalid form Eurabia

    Grow up. It doesn’t even help you. The Eurabia part just tells everyone that you are equivalent to nuts like Geller.

    Islamophobia is a made up nonsense word and does NOT exist.

    The homophobes say the same about homophobia. If you wish, replace it with anti-Muslim bigotry.

    By definition a phobia is an irrational fear and fear of things that really are to be feared ain’t phobic.

    So there, you go full homophobic wingnut. Maybe you didn’t know how homophobes argue when you copied them. But trust me, a gay man. I know.

  58. 58
    Chris from Europe

    @StevoR
    And the non-Muslim girls who are victims of FGM don’t count?! Bigot!

  59. 59
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    ^ a couple of male witnesses.

    Two at least because a woman inIslam only counts for half what a male witness is.

    Yeah, lovely religion you’ve got there – NOT!

    Oh & have I mentioned that the Quran sanctions wife-beating too provided it isn’t with an “overly” large rod? Add that to your list to look hard at too.

  60. 60
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Muslim girls get FGM and that’s not bad enough to tell you that culture is shit?! Really?

    That makes you a proven misogynist in my book Khalid from Eurabia.

    FGM is NEVER acceptable. Whatever the culture, whatever the alledged rubbish excuse.

    Any culture that practices FGM is rubbish and misogynistand wrong by “virtue” of that fact. Far as I know only islam does but I suppose there may be a few other obscure ones that do and if so then they’re equally shit.

    That’s my view on it. What’s yours?

  61. 61
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Khalid from Eurabia : homophobic

    Yeah, its not like Iran executes gays. Oh wait it does. Thanks for the reminder.

    Iranian figurehead tyrant Ahmadinead even denied their very existence in his nation.

    So you think the non-heteronormative people are going to agree with your exploitation and misuse of their very real problem of homophobia to push your mythof “islamophobia” and appeasement of jihadism and denial of reality?

    Go take a long walk into a longer desert Khalid, you bigote dhomophobic misogyinist.

  62. 62
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @48. Dingojack :

    Actually I’m South Aussie not Victorian.

    And Stevo you’d be happy to provide a linky, right?
    (Stupid O key!)Dingo

    Of course, but a link to *what* info precisely are you after?

  63. 63
    dingojack

    Stevo – oops, sorry not Vic but the city of serial killers.* :0
    Linky to the evidence you claimed of course.
    Dingo
    —–
    * Thought you were in a 1880′s homestead in Vic for some reason not a dank bank vault, silly dingo.

  64. 64
    dan4

    @33: My question to slc was related to his bigotry against Arabs, not Muslims. Not all Arabs are Muslim. Unlike the latter, one can’t chose whether to be the former (which is why slc’s comment was bigoted. He might as well have written, in the same pejorative context, about “African-American lovers”).

  65. 65
    slc1

    Re dan4 @ #64

    In no way, shape, form, or regard am I bigoted against Arabs. I am, in fact quite neutral.

    Re dingojack @ #37

    All those contributions took place a thousand years ago. To see what happened, consult presentations by Neil Tyson and Steven Weinberg at the 2006 “Beyond Belief” conference.

  66. 66
    Chris from Europe

    Islamophobia is quite obviously not a myth as can be shown with a few examples like you, Wilders, Geller and Breivik.

    There is no question in my view that, given your laughable performance here, you don’t think of a Muslim as an indivual person like you would of a Christian, Jew, Buddhist or Hindu. Your views are similar to an anti-Semites view of a Jew. Being Muslim is an all-defining characteristic for you.

    In respect of your responses, I come to the conclusion that you are a complete idiot with a reading comprehension problem.

    Re #61:

    Go take a long walk into a longer desert Khalid, you bigote dhomophobic misogyinist.

    Again, my name is still Christian. And I’m neither homophobic (I’m gay, after all) nor misogynistic. I’m actually pretty convinced (from my experience with bigots) that I’m in nearly every aspect less bigoted than you. I wonder if you’re a Poe as your denials of bigotry are in themselves perfect evidence of the same.

    Also, again: Grow up.

    You write a lot of stuff that is over and over again beside the point. This is a perfect example.

    To be clear: Criticism of Islam would be entirely unproblematic. It wouldn’t be Islamophobia, it wouldn’t be bigotry. But you don’t criticize Islam. You are using criticism of Islam as an argument for bigotry against Muslims.

  67. 67
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ 63.dingojack :

    Stevo – oops, sorry not Vic but the city of serial killers.* :0 Linky to the evidence you claimed of course.

    City of Space Shuttle and Mir astronaut Andy Thomas, Antartican explorer Douglas Mawson and Aussie explorer Charles Sturt and known as the Athens of the South too, mate!

    I claimed and referred to an awful lot of things, most of its known on wikipedia and inahell of a lot of books onthe wole subject of islam and Middle East politics.

    I’m still unsure of precisely which claim you’d like a link for.

    Clarifiction required.

    Ask – specifically so I know exactly what you’re talking about here – & ye shall receive.

  68. 68
    dingojack

    Stevo – take the King of Heart’s advice:
    ‘Start at the beginning, go on until you reach the end, then stop’.
    Dingo

  69. 69
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @66. Chris from Europe :

    Islamophobia is quite obviously not a myth as can be shown with a few examples like you, Wilders, Geller and Breivik.

    Islamophobia is indeed a nonsense word and myth or more precisely an ideological construct designed to silence dissent as Christopher Hitchens among many others has noted.

    As for your examples, I take it you mean Geert Wilders?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

    Plus I take you think he is wrong – if so how and where exactly? I’d say he has it about spot on.

    Geller? The only Geller I’ve heard of is Uri the spoon-bender. Doubt you mean him but. (shrug)

    Brevik? Brevik murdered innocent Norweigans who weren’t threatening him – not Muslims. He’s a mass murdering insane scumbag whose Jihad-esque terrorism was dreadfully wrong and I condemn him utterly for it.

    Being Muslim is an all-defining characteristic for you.

    No it isn’t. Individual Muslims are human individuals who are all messed up because of their belief in their harmful shithouse religion that leads them to do appalling bigoted, murderous things.

    I treat Muslims in RL the same as I treat anybody else – with consideration, politeness and kindness – provided they aren’t directly trying to hurt me or those I care about.

    In respect of your responses, I come to the conclusion that you are a complete idiot with a reading comprehension problem.

    In which case you should be able to, oh I dunno, say, actually answer my flippn’ questions and post counter-examples and, well, all those things you haven’t actually done.

    Go on. I’ve asked you to look at and consider quite a few things. How about you stop dodging and actually give some straightforward answers?

    Whats your opinion of FGM for instance? Acceptable if its done to women who have the misfortune of being born to the Islamic death cult?

    Are you yourself Muslim, “Chris” and, if not, why defend a religious ideology that is so evidently shit and harmful and dangerous?

    If you were living in a country threatened by asshole idiots firing rockets into your cities, what would you do? Nothing? Or try to prevent them? If the same idiots were plannning on arming these rockets with nukes would you be happy to let them do so?

    Again, my name is still Christian

    I’ll admit I have great trouble believing that, mate. If its true why are you so dedicated to supporting and apologising for islam, Khalid, er, Christian? Why would a Christian or European side with the religious ideology that is the currently biggest threat to Christianity and Europe?

    If you, actually *are* European and Christian or secular (& did I note I am *very* skeptical of that presumed lie of yours?) what do you gain by aiding and abetting your worst cultural and ideological enemy that wants to destroy your lifestyle, your existence in favour of their theocratic totalitarianism?

    Do *you* want to live under Sharia law, Chris fron Eurabia? Do you want your wife and daughters to? No? Then you should be fighting the Jihadist scumbags every bit as much as me if not more so!

    And I’m neither homophobic (I’m gay, after all) nor misogynistic.

    Yet you are supporting a religon – Islam – that is soaked to its core in misogyny and homophobia. Why?

    I’m actually pretty convinced (from my experience with bigots) that I’m in nearly every aspect less bigoted than you.

    Take it from me and being me I’d know – you are not. I’m not at all bigoted. You, OTOH, seem to be an apologist for a religious ideology that is immensely bigoted based on your comments here.

    I wonder if you’re a Poe ..

    No. I am absolutely serious. And I’ve given you more than enough reasons to understand why.

    To be clear: Criticism of Islam would be entirely unproblematic. It wouldn’t be Islamophobia, it wouldn’t be bigotry. But you don’t criticize Islam. You are using criticism of Islam as an argument for bigotry against Muslims.

    How the blazes do you get that out of my comments?

    Islam is a shit religion. Even shitter and worse than most.

    Muslim individuals are, well, human individuals. Their faith is messed up and messes them up, but I certainly wouldn’t and don’t recommend mistreating them provided they are NOT actively posing a threat against everybody else in society by their actions.

  70. 70
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @68. Dingojack :

    Sorry that’s as clear as mud to me right now.

    What info did you want links for?

  71. 71
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    PS. I’m pretty sure that you’ll be able to back up and find evidence for everything and anything I’ve said via a basic google search anyhow.

  72. 72
    dingojack

    Stevo – “Islamophobia is indeed a nonsense word and myth or more precisely an ideological construct designed to silence dissent as Christopher Hitchens among many others has noted”.

    Collins and Macquarie Dictionaries disagree. Any evidence to back the claim that is ‘a nonsense word’* or is that from the dictionary of Stevo’s arse? Any evidence that Islamophobia exists as a word solely to silence Christopher Hitchens, or any other person’s, dissent?

    Stevo you have made multiple assertions for which you claim to have evidence, none of which has been produced. Oh and BTW you’re making the claim, so you have to provide evidence to back those claims up.
    I’m in no way obliged to make your case for you, if you won’t (or can’t) do it yourself.

    Dingo
    ——
    * cf. the word homophobia and how homophobes tend to make the identical argument you did

  73. 73
    Chris from Europe

    Again, StevoR demonstrates being a complete dimwit.

    Plus I take you think he is wrong – if so how and where exactly? I’d say he has it about spot on.

    No, I won’t play that game with you. Of course, a hater agrees with another hater. Explain how a generally reviled xenophobe like Wilders is spot on. Make a concrete example.

    Brevik? Brevik murdered innocent Norweigans who weren’t threatening him – not Muslims. He’s a mass murdering insane scumbag whose Jihad-esque terrorism was dreadfully wrong and I condemn him utterly for it.

    No, some members of the young socialists he murdered were Muslims. The reason I cited Breivik is because he uses the same arguments. And like Geller, you try to associate your terrorist with your hate target. But no, he’s quite clear that is on your side and did it in your name. Of course, it’s insane to take your arguments and their logical conclusion seriously.

    No it isn’t. Individual Muslims are human individuals who are all messed up because of their belief in their harmful shithouse religion that leads them to do appalling bigoted, murderous things.

    No, individual Muslims are human beings that you don’t know much more about than about individuals of other religions. A majority of them isn’t any more messed up than non-Muslims and they are largely not more appallingly bigoted or murderous.

    I treat Muslims in RL the same as I treat anybody else – with consideration, politeness and kindness – provided they aren’t directly trying to hurt me or those I care about.

    Oh, so you’re just spreading your hatred behind their back and hoping that others will do the dirty work.

    Yet you are supporting a religon – Islam – that is soaked to its core in misogyny and homophobia. Why?

    I’m not supporting Islam more than I support any other religion. I support equal treatment and equal protections under the law and oppose bigotry. That’s it.

    Why would a Christian or European side with the religious ideology that is the currently biggest threat to Christianity and Europe?

    Because any sane individual realizes that Islam is not by far the biggest threat to Christianity or Europe. I doubt that it’s a threat at all. I think it was explained often enough why the Islamophobic theories about an Eurabia are laughable BS, and that both by this blog and, for example, Little Green Footballs (link above). And Charles Johnson is certainly no friend of Islamists. It may be a serious threat to my civil liberties as Islamophobia is used by politicians to irrationally restrict our freedoms.

    And why would I as an atheist and lapsed Catholic (Christian is just my name) be interest in protecting Christianity?

    Whats your opinion of FGM for instance? Acceptable if its done to women who have the misfortune of being born to the Islamic death cult?

    I don’t have to react to your irrational BS accusations. I don’t have to state my opinion when there’s no reason whatsoever to assume for a rational observer that I don’t reject FGM. Do you think that this Fox News style of questioning is convincing?

    FGM is not connected to Islam. We already had this on this threat and already before. You want to use that as an instrument in your argument for the validity of your bigoty. But that’s a fail. It’s not limited to Islamic areas. It’s not dependent on Islam. It happens in non-Islamic African cultures and will be justified by whatever belief is locally dominant and it is rejected in other Islamic cultures. The issue is to a large degree orthogonal to the religion of Islam. It’s unacceptable no matter if either perpetrator or victims is Muslim or some kind of animist or Christian or whatever.

    If you, actually *are* European and Christian or secular (& did I note I am *very* skeptical of that presumed lie of yours?)

    Well, that’s because you are an idiot. And I never said I was Christian (have been), I said my name is.

    what do you gain by aiding and abetting your worst cultural and ideological enemy that wants to destroy your lifestyle, your existence in favour of their theocratic totalitarianism?

    Cute. Not giving up on our basic principles and fighting against bigoty doesn’t come anywhere near “aiding and abetting your worst cultural and ideological enemy”. People like you are far more influential danger to our culture and constitutional values. You also imply again uniformity of Islams and Muslims that just not there. In your hatred of Islam our Western values are obviously acceptable collateral damage for you.

    Furthermore, the kind of confrontation you seem to desire is not an intelligent strategy if you want to achieve integration and avoid radicalization of bigger groups. No successful conservative is promoting such a stupid strategy by the way, even extreme conservatives, be it Tennessee or Bavaria. That’s left to the wingnuts.

    Then you should be fighting the Jihadist scumbags every bit as much as me if not more so!

    Eh, you are an internet idiot.

    Do *you* want to live under Sharia law, Chris fron Eurabia?

    Huh? Has something hit your head? No, of course not, but that has no connection to the rest of the argument. But it exposes that you are deep in the conspiracy theories of people like Geller, Spencer, Broder etc. Together with the rest of your comments it’s pretty clear that you see Muslims as an inherent danger, as automata who will at some point always become Islamist extremists.

    Do you have anything that’s not a logical fallacy, not emotional appeals, not FUD?

    Take it from me and being me I’d know – you are not. I’m not at all bigoted. You, OTOH, seem to be an apologist for a religious ideology that is immensely bigoted based on your comments here.

    Not being a bigot doesn’t make me an apologist. That you buy in the Eurabia and sharia law nonsense exposes by itself that you have a big problem of thinking rationally and critically, … and simple math.

    How the blazes do you get that out of my comments?

    You aren’t that good at thinking things through. That’s clear by now. You should style yourself with the title “master of the non sequitur” (that’s how sequitur is written, by the way).

  74. 74
    slc1

    Re StevoR @ #69

    Mr. Chris is referring to a woman named Pam Geller who blogs at the Atlasshrugged web site (she’s a big fan of Ayn Rand). She doesn’t seem to have both oars in the water much of the time.

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