You may remember that in the wake of the faux controversy over Dan Savage calling Biblical anti-gay pronouncements “bullshit — make sure to clutch your pearls and gasp here — Brian Brown of the National Organization for Marriage challenged him to a debate. Both sides have now agreed on the terms of that debate, which will take place at Dan’s dinner table.
Brown expected, no doubt, that I would pack a hall with hooting, hollering supporters of marriage equality who would boo and shout him down. (Which was probably what he was after—it would’ve allowed Brown to play the victim and complain about hypocritical, intolerant liberals.) Instead I invited Brown and his wife to come to dinner at my house and meet my husband and son. No booing crowd, no grandstanding. Dinner. I would have to acknowledge Brown’s humanity by extending my hospitality, he would have to acknowledge mine by accepting my hospitality. After dinner, Mark Oppenheimer, a NYT journalist, would moderate an dinner-table debate about marriage, about equality, about the bible, and about religion…
It looks like I’m gonna have to clear all the Catholic kitch out of our living room and dining room—my 5′ plaster Jesus, our 3′ plaster Mary, all my other plaster saints, the dozens of rosaries hanging around their plaster necks, the stack of disintegrating hymnals on the mantle, etc. Wouldn’t want Brian to think there’s something disrespectful about our collection. Our Catholic kitch is all family heirlooms. My late grandfather’s rosaries, most of them prayed to pieces, were headed to the dump when I picked them out of the trash. But will knowing that my 5′ plaster Jesus has been evacuated to our bedroom be more of a torment for Brian?
I wouldn’t move anything or change anything. It’s your house, not his. But this is gonna be interesting to watch.
16 comments
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jamessweet
June 2, 2012 at 11:07 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Awesome. I hope Brown actually goes through with it. I remain skeptical…
Michael Heath
June 2, 2012 at 11:52 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
The challenge here is getting Brown to confront and directly respond to the argument the government doesn’t have constitutionally delegated power to deny the Savage family their individual rights within the context of the irrelevancy of any one individual’s personal position on the morality of gay rights. With the added premise being the existence of the equal protection clause and other constitutional clauses which explicitly obligates the government to defend our rights rather than deny their exercise.
“I believe gay marriage is wrong and therefore shouldn’t be practiced” is a protected right for an individual which can be practiced in association with others. But that’s a long ways from the argument that such beliefs justifies prohibiting others’ rights to conclude and act differently.
These two aspects are the most frustrating part of the public policy debate as its conducted by the media. Their failure to acknowledge how irrelevant personal beliefs are in regards to the prohibition or protection of others’ individual rights is strong evidence of the idiocy or cowardice of those in the media moderating this debate. Let’s hope Mr. Brown is forced to make the case beyond his own personal beliefs and instead venture into the realm of what justifies that we continue to institutionalize his type of ignorant dishonest bigotry.
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne
June 2, 2012 at 12:46 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Is Dan going to bring out the soup bowls with the naked Greek boys?
Martin, heading for geezerhood
June 2, 2012 at 1:57 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
@Hercules:
That would be the ones playing leapfrog, right?
christophburschka
June 2, 2012 at 2:55 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Dinner with the family – and Brown has accepted? He’s not afraid to catch The Gay?
I’m sure this will be something to watch.
tacitus
June 2, 2012 at 3:45 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I wouldn’t hold out much hope for anything remarkable to come from this event. I predict that the will both remark on how respectful their opponent was, and how civil the debate was, but neither side will give any ground to the other, and both sets of supporters will claim that their man won the debate hands down.
Isn’t it always thus?
(Not saying that it’s pointless having the debate in the first place — there is always some merit to airing out such viewpoints, just as long as nobody sets their expectations too high.)
jeffwoodhead
June 2, 2012 at 3:58 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Michael Heath, can you do me a favor? Go back in time to, say, October or so and convince the anti-Amendment One folks here in NC to make this argument the centerpiece of their fight against the amendment. We may not have won with that, but we would have done a hell of a lot better than 61-39.
Evolouie
June 2, 2012 at 4:36 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
As for the menu.
I would serve only food forbidden in Leviticus.
billdaniels
June 2, 2012 at 4:53 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I heard that his wife will not be attending. Maybe Brown will feel more like “himself” without his wife around.
Ichthyic
June 2, 2012 at 7:02 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
61-39
whoah.
i didn’t realize it was that bad.
*sigh*
Ichthyic
June 2, 2012 at 7:03 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
public policy debate as its conducted by the media
“Well there’s your problem, right there!”
timberwoof
June 3, 2012 at 1:02 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
When Dan Savage announced the invitation and said that his neighbor would cook the meal. Some people complained that this feeds right into common stereotypes of gay people. On a Christian blog where Brian Brown announced his acceptance, one of the commenters warned him against eating any of Dan’s food. Brian Brown is bringing his own cameraman to make sure that Dan Savage’s cameraman isn’t lying.
My prediction: we’ll see Dan Savage’s video. We’ll see edited (quote-mined) video from Brian Brown.
democommie
June 3, 2012 at 7:29 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“My prediction: we’ll see Dan Savage’s video. We’ll see edited (quote-mined) video from Brian Brown.”
I’m thinking that when Brown gets his ass handed to him (which is the only possible result of a genuine debate, using facts in evidence) that we’ll see an immediate request from the TMLC for a permanent injunction on dissemination of the video.
Gretchen
June 3, 2012 at 9:52 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Michael Heath
June 3, 2012 at 10:45 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’m with Gretchen timberwoof, what supposed stereotype advanced by “some people” are you referencing?
dingojack
June 4, 2012 at 12:20 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I must confess that when I read the headline I thought:
‘Well there’s ya problem!’ [/Adam Savage] ;)
I thought gay men were all supposed to be fabulous cooks. Perhaps Brown can’t find a willing* food taster at such short notice**. Or perhaps he feared catching da Ghey Cooties, so a comprimise was reached!
Dingo
—–
* but, alas, unnecessary
** Breibart took a bowl of Chicken Noodle, and then discovered, to his horror, the leap-frogging Greek boys!
See what happened to him. (True story!)