Bryan Fischer has reached even deeper down into the fever swamp of his deranged mind and dredged up yet another bizarre conspiracy theory — this time by passing on a rumor of a rumor from an unnamed source (Michele Bachmann, anyone?) about how the DHS is preventing the military and the police from getting ammunition so they can go to war against them. Seriously.
I talked with a law enforcement officer this week, a well-respected man, I’ve got a lot of respect for this guy and he says “look, I’m in law enforcement; we have to get ammo for our officers [and] we’re having a tough time getting ammo. And I’ve been hearing from other people that Homeland Security, DHS is buying up virtually all of the ammunition that’s being produced by munitions manufacturers. They’re buying it up; million, and million, and million of rounds.”
This is not for the military, this is for Homeland Security. Who are they going to turn that ammunition on? They’re going to turn it on us! That ammunition is not going to fight our enemies abroad; it’s being used to arm agents of the Department of Homeland Security. Well, who are they going to be going after? They’re going to be going after us!
Okey dokey.
44 comments
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Marcus Ranum
May 4, 2012 at 9:34 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Nonsense. DHS couldn’t even find the military.
slc1
May 4, 2012 at 9:35 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Of course, the real reason is that gun owners, by and large a paranoid bunch (I’m sure that Heath will be along to dispute this claim), have been buying up ammunition by the carload ever since Obama was elected for fear that he would press to ban their sale. As I understand it, the bullet manufacturers can’t keep up with the demand.
Brett McCoy
May 4, 2012 at 9:37 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
“virtually all”?
tbp1
May 4, 2012 at 9:40 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ah yes, the absolutely reliable “some guy I won’t name told me” source. I’m convinced.
dingojack
May 4, 2012 at 9:41 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
SLC – Citation please!
Dingo
Artor
May 4, 2012 at 9:45 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I’d heard mention of the huge purchase of hollow-point bullets by DHS recently, but I’d be more concerned that they’re stocking up for something more domestic, like the Occupy protests, or labor strikes.
For those who think such a thing could never happen here, look up the Ludlow Massacre, or Bloody Thursday, when the National Guard machine-gunned striking longshoremen in San Francisco. I hope I’m being paranoid.
Phillip IV
May 4, 2012 at 9:47 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Let me guess – the requisition form has too many polysyllabic words on it?
With the munitions manufacturers having no choice in the matter, and obviously unable to hike prices or expand production. More proof that Obama is a socialist! He gets elected, and -bang!- the free market doesn’t work anymore!
nigelTheBold, who sings like a needle to the ear
May 4, 2012 at 9:50 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
slc1:
I call bullshit.
Not on the increased sales of bullets. Just on the idea that increased civilian sales could adversely affect government — especially military — procurement.
unbound
May 4, 2012 at 9:50 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
My brother-in-law is a captain in a city police force who is also a conservative (but not complete wacko). I would have definitely heard it by now if the police were actually struggling to buy ammo.
Seems like a new twist on the issue that slc1 brought up above. The paranoid bought up lots of ammo when Obama got elected (fueled by rumors spread by the same gun stores reaping in the profits) so there was a spike in demand that the ammunition manufacturers struggled again into 2009. I haven’t heard about ammo shortages at the gun stores in a while, so I wonder if this is just that issue rehashed.
bubba707
May 4, 2012 at 9:52 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
dingojack, I’ve read that ammunition sales did go through the roof after Obama was elected and, anecdotally, that’s born out by a friend of mine who works at a sporting goods store. Civilian sales appear to have more than tripled and they have a hard time keeping common calibers in stock, primarily .223, 9mm, .357 and .38. 30-06, 30-30 and .308 are also up but to a lesser extent.
d cwilson
May 4, 2012 at 9:53 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Dingo –
Gun Sales Booming: Doomsday, Obama or Zombies?
Wingnuts have been selling the “Obama is gonna take ‘ur guns!” meme for a long time now. There was a huge spike in guns and ammo sales in 2009 over the fear Obama was going to restrict their sales. More recently, the NRA (America’s biggest gun lobby) has been pushing the idea that Obama has a secret plan to seize everyone’s guns in his second turn. The fact that Obama has done nothing to curtail gun sales and has actually signed bills that have expanded gun owners’ rights is now cited as proof that Obama is planning on lulling us all into a sense of false complacency.
slc1
May 4, 2012 at 9:54 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Re Dingojack @ #5
I recall reading about the run on ammunition in gun stores a year or so ago, probably in the New York Times. It has probably sloughed off over the last year or so but, if Obama is reelected, will probably pick up again. I can’t speak to the situation in OZ but all too many gun owners here are convinced that the order to confiscate firearms will come down at any time, much like the born agains are convinced that Yeshua of Nazareth will show up shortly.
Chiroptera
May 4, 2012 at 9:57 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Say what? Homeland Security is going to make the entire military line up and march through the naked picture scanners?
Reginald Selkirk
May 4, 2012 at 9:58 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Off-topic, and I look forward to your blogging this:
Ted Nugent explodes at notion he’s not a moderate
Doug Little
May 4, 2012 at 10:00 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I like that comparison.
bubba707
May 4, 2012 at 10:00 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I should also add this is somewhat cyclical. One month they sell a bunch, the next 2 or 3 months not so much. Also, our local law enforcement have no trouble at all getting ammunition and, in fact, are encouraging more practice time on the range trying to upgrade qualifying scores.
syskill
May 4, 2012 at 10:01 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Um, Ed… This is a dupe of your post from yesterday — you just quoted from farther down in Right Wing Watch’s post today.
puppygod
May 4, 2012 at 10:03 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
What is it with American obsession over firearms? I mean, sure, shooting is fun and all, but as an actual weapon for waging, you know, actual WAR (and not some “peace-keeping operation”) handheld firearms are, frankly, obsolete. They might play minor role for policing duties and self-defense of troops, but if you want to actually kill and destroy somebody you use all this expensive hardware – artillery, mortars, tanks, airplanes – that military usually have aplenty. Even during WWII with literally millions of guys in uniforms running around with rifles and SMGs firearms scored less than 10% of total casualties (leading killer being artillery). I guess it has something to do with cowboy mythology.
Now, Artor scenario @6 is much more plausible. And much more chilling.
Who Knows?
May 4, 2012 at 10:04 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Another Ammo Shortage Coming
We made a couple of predictions last month about how to prepare for 2012. If you missed it, we suggested you focus on Ammunition, which we are going to concentrate on in this article.So, for a quick update: specifically, over the last 30 days, while we were following our own advice and preparing for 2012, we have observed that the ammunition manufacturers’ productions are at an all-time high and that the customer demand for ammunition is going to more than likely supersede the 2008-2009 “Election-Year Bubble”.
Who Knows?
May 4, 2012 at 10:13 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Shop Owner Links Ammo Shortage To Obama
bubba707
May 4, 2012 at 10:14 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Who Knows, yeah, plenty of idiots bought into the 2012 nonsense. I still hear some people around my neck of the woods going on about the coming doomsday. Gullability seems to be an American character trait.
Zinc Avenger
May 4, 2012 at 10:19 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
TSA experts, flown in to screen several Army bases, have reported up to a dozen deadly weapons found on the premises.
KG
May 4, 2012 at 10:27 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
puppygod@18,
That may be true for the US armed forces, it may have been true in WWII, but globally, now small arms are the real WMDs.
dingojack
May 4, 2012 at 10:31 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
All – Thanks for that.
But I have to say I find it interesting that there is no really creditable evidence of any kind of systemmic shortages in ammo (locally perhaps, not over a significant area).
I am not saying you are not correct, just that there is little hard evidence of such shortages*.
I’d tend to go with the evidence and disbelieve the paranoid noise machine.
Dingo
—–
* aside from the ‘I read in a paper somewhere…’ or ‘I know a guy, who knows a guy, who says…’ or ‘I hear tell that…’ kind of information.
Marcus Ranum
May 4, 2012 at 10:33 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
as an actual weapon for waging, you know, actual WAR (and not some “peace-keeping operation”) handheld firearms are, frankly, obsolete
Revolutions and insurgencies tipping point is when they get defectors from the standing military, or are able to begin to employ artillery (with all the logistics that come with that) – however IEDs and handheld firearms are what gets the ball rolling. They’re also pretty good for guerilla warfare and harrassment, if you simply want an invader to go away and never intend to take to the field with formed troops. You may want to read about Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Shah Massoud or TE Lawrence (not DH) if your education is so deficient.
On the flip side, the gun-stockpilers are also as historically illiterate regarding insurgency and revolution as you appear to be. Mao got started with something like a couple bolt-action rifles and a shotgun, and Ho Chi Minh armed himself by absorbing a group of well-armed local mafiosi. It’s not necessary to have large stockpiles of guns if you want to start an insurgency – what you need is a few members who are willing to join the police force (temporarily) or the anti-insurgent militia (equally temporarily) – the insurgents in Afghanistan are doing a splendid job of illustrating that they, unlike their american occupiers, are students of military history.
Modusoperandi
May 4, 2012 at 10:35 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
bubba707 “Gullability seems to be an American character trait.”
Really? I want some of this gullibility everybody’s talking about! Don’t keep it all to yourself! Gimme! /me holds out wad of twenty dollar bills
Chiroptera
May 4, 2012 at 10:38 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
puppygod, #18: I mean, sure, shooting is fun and all, but as an actual weapon for waging, you know, actual WAR (and not some “peace-keeping operation”) handheld firearms are, frankly, obsolete.
Actually, post WWII experience has shown, it is not necessary for an occupied people (occupied by either a foreign or domestic power) to be able to conquer and occupy large amounts of territory or to be able to wage sustained warfare over a well-defined front.
Sometimes — not always, but often enough to encourage other insurgencies — it is sufficient to harrass and weary the occupying forces, engaging in a “war of attrition,” until the foreign occupiers get tired and leave or until the domestic government caves in and makes an effort to accomodate the insurgents’ demands.
dingojack
May 4, 2012 at 10:38 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
MO – I’ll sell it to you, but it’s gonna cost a lot more than that.
$100,000 in unmarked, non-sequential bills will get the ball rolling, intially.
:) Dingo
raven
May 4, 2012 at 10:44 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Where do the Space Reptiles fit in here?
All the military needs to defend themselves from this DHS plot are Tinfoil Hats. I guarantee that if the military stocks up on Tinfoil Hats, DHS will never dare attack them.
cthulhusminion
May 4, 2012 at 10:54 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
IIRC the ammo purchase was 450 million rounds. That sounds like a massive amount until you take into account DHS has 200,000 employees, so around 2250 rounds each. While not all of them are armed, the ones that are will need to spend time at the range to keep up proficiency. Even if they only use one magazine a week, that’s 800+ rounds a year for a Glock 22. Just more FUD.
bubba707
May 4, 2012 at 10:55 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
You know that whenever some idea is prefaced by Brian Fischer says what follows will be a steaming pile of bullshit
raven
May 4, 2012 at 10:55 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Kent State, Ohio where the National Guard opened fire on unarmed students killing 4 and wounding more.
When I was growing up, events like this happened and there were Armored Personal Carriers and tanks around the college campuses from time to time. Plus the Vietnam war which killed a huge number of American kids by modern standards, 55,000, to accomplish nothing.
Needless to say, I’ve never trusted the US government and nothing that happens or could happen surprises me.
cthulhusminion
May 4, 2012 at 11:07 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Forgot to add that the purchase is over 5 years.
wordsmatter
May 4, 2012 at 11:23 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Anyone on Cabela’s mailing list? I am. This week I got the “Ammo” catalog.
Tons and tons and tons of ammo – all flavors, lots of it on sale.
Don’t suppose those police depts starved for ammo would ever think of just placing an order with Cabela’s, right?
Funniest thing in the catalog: An “Emergency Pack” consisting of a few dozen each of .223 for your M-16 clone, 9mm or .40 S&W for your handgun, and 12-gauge 00 Buckshot for your shotgun, all in a weatherproof portable drybox, for “emergency situations.”
Cabela’s knows their market.
Skip White
May 4, 2012 at 11:28 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
re: d_cwilson @11:
I read the article at the link. Apparently, gun and ammo manufacturers are making zombie-related weapons and ammunition, due to the trendiness of zombies nowadays. I guess this means people think The Walking Dead is a reality show?
d cwilson
May 4, 2012 at 12:17 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Well, they think Fox is a news channel, so why not?
bubba707
May 4, 2012 at 1:34 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
wordsmatter, law enforcement, like most any Govt agency, is only authorized to purchase from an approved vendor list. I doubt Cabellas has ever bothered to apply for that status considering the extra paperwork andbureacratic BS involved.
baal
May 4, 2012 at 1:38 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Thanks Reginald, that was nice chuckle to have over lunch. It must be a corollary of Kruger Dunning effect. Extremists are unable to see their own extremism or said the from their perspective, “I’m much more normal than you think I am.”
As for the ammo – they need to arm the drones with something.
Nancy New, Queen of your Regulatory Nightmare
May 4, 2012 at 2:13 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Actually, I can tell you why there’s the perception that ammo is hard to find. I work in an industry uniquely positioned to watch this.
There is, and has been somewhat of a shortage, but it’s self-inflicted.
It’s been that way since Obama was elected–because all the wingnuts were so certain that the lib’rals were gonna come for their guns. So the shelves at the sporting goods stores got empty, which, in their minds, proved it.
Over the last couple of years, they’ve kept up the panic mode in a variety of ways.
The manufacturers love it, because they then had a terrific excuse to raise their prices and keep ‘em up.
jnorris
May 4, 2012 at 4:22 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
The idea that the TSA will take out the Marines has me laughing and crying. Maybe, just maybe, on their best day the TSA could come out even against the Coast Guard Auxiliary.*
*Provided the CGA are drinking/drunk.
Uncle Glenny
May 4, 2012 at 9:57 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
jnorris, I don’t even see that.
Given what the TSA considers potential weapons they’d be attacking with embroidered handbags, two-inch toy guns, shampoo, and cupcakes.
Ichthyic
May 4, 2012 at 10:21 pm (UTC -4) Link to this comment
I am not saying you are not correct, just that there is little hard evidence of such shortages*.
none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Modusoperandi
May 5, 2012 at 2:24 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Uncle Glenny, and my two lighters and 1 1/2″ keychain w/scissors and knife.*
* Did you know that to the TSA one lighter is fine but two is dangerous, while to the Panamanian equivalent (Las Personas Hostiles) both keychain knives and lighters of any quantity are dangerous.
dingojack
May 5, 2012 at 3:29 am (UTC -4) Link to this comment
Ichthyic – so show me the evidence from a creditable primary source. Since you clearly have plenty of hard evidence that should be easy.
Dingo