Kirk Cameron’s Theocratic Associations


Libby Anne shows the many connections between Kirk Cameron and Doug Phillips of Vision Forum, an openly theocratic group with a seriously twisted idea of Christian patriarchy that seeks complete control of women by men. She writes:

Click here to some pictures of Kirk Cameron with Doug Phillips, founder and president of leading Christian Patriarchy group Vision Forum, and Geoff Botkin, whose “200 Year Plan” details how his descendants will take control of New Zealand and make it into a theocracy, and whose daughters’ book So Much More and film Return of the Daughtershas done so much to forward the Stay At Home Daughters movement.

Cameron has served as a speaker at the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival, where he won the 2009 Best Feature Film award for his 2008 film Fireproof. The San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival is the brainchild of Doug Phillips, created in an effort to reclaim the movie industry from Hollywood…

This Cameron/Phillips connection is by no means a one-time thing, or accidental. Doug Phillips has also founded the Christian Filmmakers’ Academy, and Cameron has taught there alongside Phillips and the Botkins and remains a perennial speaker. Doug Phillips’ blog highlights Kirk Cameron and his work quite frequently.

She also offers this absolutely creepy quote from Phillips:

“Daughters aren’t to be independent. They’re not to act outside the scope 
of their father. As long as they’re under the authority of their fathers, fathers have the ability to nullify or not the oaths and the vows. Daughters can’t just go out 
independently and say, ‘I’m going to marry whoever I want.’ No. The father has 
the ability to say, ‘No, I’m sorry, that has to be approved by me.’”

That statement just makes me shudder.

Comments

  1. Chiroptera says

    Ed: That statement just makes me shudder.

    Me, I don’t see it much different in kind than what the ass-clowns Santorum and Geller and their ilk have been saying lately. Just different in degree, and not all that much, neither.

  2. The Lorax says

    At one point in human history, and indeed in many present-day parts of the world, that sort of thinking is considered “normal”.

    I’d like to see it happen quicker, but even though I may never see it in my lifetime, I’m really glad that there’s a consistent and strong trend in the opposite direction.

    If nothing else, time and effort will rid us of those evils. Until then, I guess we’ll just have to keep Imagining it.

    (it’s easy if you try)

  3. Tualha says

    Yeah, there’s so much difference between Christian fundamentalists and Islamic fundamentalists. Meet the new God, same as the old God.

  4. says

    Doug Phillips…whose “200 Year Plan” details how his descendants will take control of New Zealand and make it into a theocracy

    Not if Gandalf and the hobbits have anything to say about it.

  5. says

    “seriously twisted idea of Christian patriarchy that seeks complete control of women by men”
    You say that almost like it’s something apart from the religious mainstream!

  6. raven says

    Daughters can’t just go out 
independently and say, ‘I’m going to marry whoever I want.’ No. The father has 
the ability to say, ‘No, I’m sorry, that has to be approved by me.’”

    The word for this is “slavery” Pure and simple.

    It’s also illegal in the USA and has been since the Civil War.

    Phillips and Cameron are just female slavery wannabe’s.

    PS Go ahead and try it fundie morons. We have mostly male, often quite large, and always armed, security forces to protect us from your kind. They are called the police and US armed forces backed up by the laws, DA’s, and prisons.

    The law is on our side, not yours.

  7. says

    Daughters can’t just go out 
independently and say, ‘I’m going to marry whoever I want.’ No. The father has 
the ability to say, ‘No, I’m sorry, that has to be approved by me.’”

    More anti-marriage views from the religious right. Or rather, denouncing the modern love-based marriage model while supporting the old “traditional” sex slave auction model. It’s still effectively anti-marriage for first world nations.

    What’s next? They going to bring back abusive polygyny? (Oh, wait, some sects already did.) Concubines? Shotgun weddings for rapists? Stoning women for the sin of being raped by someone other than her husband? Claiming conquered women as spoils of war? Just how far will they go to reclaim their tradition?

  8. timothyyoung says

    Given how the demographics seem to be working, within 200 years New Zeeland will be a protecterate of China. And any Christians still left will be mining uranium in Mongolia.

  9. raven says

    I don’t know whether Phillips and Cameron profile like sociopaths or psychopaths.

    But anyone who wants to be a slave owner in the 21st century has got to be some sort of deviant personality. At the very least they are abusive and toxic xian cult leaders.

    These guys remind me of Reverend Sun Myung Moon who is pretty strange or Reverend Jim Jones who was not only pretty strange but ultimately partly responsible for the deaths of 800 people in Guyana. Or Warren Jeffs of the FLDS, now doing life + 20 years in Texas. David Koresh of the Branch Davidians.

    There are a lot of weird xian cult leaders running around these days. Most remain small because no one sane and sensible wants to get near them. Who knows when the next Heaven’s Gate or Waco will occur but it wil occur somewhere.

  10. says

    By the way, the bit about nullifying oaths comes directly from Numbers chapter 30, where also a man gets the same rights over his wife. It is pretty clear from that passage that it is talking about oaths and not contracts, so it doesn’t in any way mean that a father can control who his daughter marries. So Doug Phillips has managed to take a pretty sexist bit in the Bible and managed to misconstrue it to make it even more sexist. That’s impressive.

  11. says

    “I don’t know whether Phillips and Cameron profile like sociopaths or psychopaths.”.

    Does it have to be either, or?

    I see that Cameron’s gaybashing on Piers Morgan’s show attracted some attention.

    Cameron is a no-talent hack as an actor. His looks made him popular, his acting was shit. Look for Tebowin’ Timmy to join him on the Fundie Roundup as soon as Denver finalizes a deal with Peyton Manning.

  12. timothyhughes says

    Kirk Cameron is still cute enough that he would be awfully popular in a slave society.

  13. Aquaria says

    “Daughters aren’t to be independent. They’re not to act outside the scope 
of their father. As long as they’re under the authority of their fathers, fathers have the ability to nullify or not the oaths and the vows. Daughters can’t just go out 
independently and say, ‘I’m going to marry whoever I want.’ No. The father has 
the ability to say, ‘No, I’m sorry, that has to be approved by me.’”

    Gee. This sounds familiar. I’ve only been saying here and elsewhere that the christslime think that women are property, and I’m pretty sure I alluded to how they think that women should be passed from their fathers to their husbands like property. Or a goat.

    Feminists have only been telling you this is how these slimeballs think of women. And we get called hysterical for it.

    Now do y’all believe us?

  14. Aquaria says

    What do y’all think those creepy purity balls have been about, anyway?

    It was the very idea that women were property!

  15. Aquaria says

    Oh–and I’ve had some dealings with these christslime bigots here in San Antonio. They have a facility over on Blanco Road that all homeschoolers hear about, eventually. You go over there and the “text” books are astoundingly stupid. There’s creationism. There’s historical revisionism. If there’s something that can have jaysus puked all over it, it’s there. The only thing that you could get from the store that wasn’t soaked in jaysus was the Saxon math books. Oh, and they make parents who want to take part in things like an orchestra for homeschooled kids, or assorted other social groups for kids, sign a testament of faith.

    I can get copies of all the insane stuff that’s free, if y’all want. Anything that costs money, I can’t afford. But maybe I can slip my camera in and take some pictures of the wackiest material.

  16. Crudely Wrott says

    Does Cameron have a daughter?

    Has he run this shit past her?

    If I were to try that with either of my daughters they would, by all rights and justice, spit in my eye. I’d be so proud . . . but that test will never be made. Unnecessary. They already display laudable judgement.

  17. bananacat says

    I actually follow Doug Phillips on a board about Christian fundies that started as a snark site for the Duggars. The entire movement is just so incredibly creepy, and this is only a tiny tip of the giant iceberg of misogyny. There is a very strong vibe of emotional incest between fathers and their daughters who are required to be instantly and joyfully obedient.

  18. Michael Heath says

    I still think Kirk Cameron and Rick Santorum would make an awfully cute couple.

  19. says

    bananacat:

    I actually follow Doug Phillips on a board about Christian fundies that started as a snark site for the Duggars.

    Please do share!

  20. raven says

    There is a very strong vibe of emotional incest between fathers and their daughters who are required to be instantly and joyfully obedient.

    That “very strong vibe” is because incest happens a lot among them.

    1. Studies show that the second highest correlation between child sexual abuse is membership in a “conservative” xian cult.

    2. HW Armstrong, one of the loonier and fortunately dead cult leaders (Worldwide Horror Show of God) admitted that he was sexually abusing his daughter.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Catholic priests aren’t the only perverts out there.

  21. cindy says

    The paradigm taught by these men is miserable, and women who behave outside of what is allowable within their paradigm are labeled as the root source of everything wrong with the world.

    Voddie Baucham, part of this cadre, preached at a men’s conference a couple of weeks ago, and since there were no women there at the church, they opened up the ladies room for men to use because of the large volume of people there that day. Women are just one rung above the devil on the “food chain” ladder, and they’re definitely below men. Baucham had them so “whipped into a frenzy” that one man in attendance said that there was no excuse for the amount of urine on the floor in the ladies restroom. He felt that it had to be deliberate and was thanking God that he’d worn shoes with a thick tread, though the dread didn’t save his pant legs from baptism.

    Jocelyn Andersen subsequently wrote about it at the Examiner.com in “Complementarian men symbolically urinate on women”:
    http://www.examiner.com/women-s-issues-in-orlando/complementarian-men-symbolically-urinate-on-women

    With the stated intent of preserving family, this religious movement ironically shows contempt for the women that they say they seek to protect. It has nothing to do with protection and has more to do with raw power. And there’s plenty of anger to go around as well.

  22. anne mariehovgaard says

    “PS Go ahead and try it fundie morons. We have mostly male, often quite large, and always armed, security forces to protect us from your kind. They are called the police and US armed forces backed up by the laws, DA’s, and prisons.”
    Well, sure… but the problem is that these people are deliberately, explicitly raising their own daughters to be willing slaves with no will,no mind of their own – training them from childhood for a 24/7 sexual slavery lifestyle.

  23. raven says

    What’s noteworthy, explains Jackie J. Hudson, the author of Characteristics of the Incestuous Family, is that while sexual abuse is generally higher among stepfathers in the general population,

    the rate of incest is so high in fundamentalist homes that sexual abuse by biological fathers is more common than that by stepfathers. (8) She believes that attitudes of …

    Some data on incest rates in fundie homes.

    It seems to be very high. No surprise. If you look at any social patholgy, the fundies always score higher than the general population.

  24. raven says

    Katheryn Riss:

    “Traditional” Sex Role Hierarchy Is Associated with Domestic Violence and Incest

    Studies of highly religious homes in which abuse and incest take place show that father perpetuators rigidly uphold “old fashioned” values, emphasize the subordination of women, and isolate the family unit. They often blame their sexual sin on their daughter/victims. The mothers, fearing conflict with the husband and censure by the religious community, often ignore the incest. Dependent on the fathers economically and emotionally, such wives avoid confronting their abusive husbands, thus allowing the incest to continue.2 Thus, the imbalance and inequality of “traditional” marriages can be
    dangerous.

    To quote some experts: “Helfer and Kempe (1968) in their book The Battered Child report that the assault rate on children of parents who subscribe to the belief of male dominance is 136 percent higher than for couples not committed to male dominance.”3

    More on incest in fundie homes. Of course, child and wife physical and mental abuse is also very high. Looks pretty dysfunctional all around.

    FWIW, the author of this paragraph is a christian minister, Reverend Kathryn Riss. I know putting a Reverend in front of a female name makes fundie heads explode.

    Carolyn Holderread Heggen, “Religious Beliefs and Abuse” 3 in Women, Abuse and the Bible;
    How Scripture Can Be used to Hurt or Heal, edited by Catherine Clark Kroeger, (Grand Rapids,
    MI: Baker Books, 1996), p. 17.
    4 David H. Scholar, “The Evangelical Debate Over Biblical ‘Headship’” in Kroeger, p. 29.
    5 Jackie M. Hudson, “Characteristics of the Incestuous Family”, in Kroeger, p. 72
    6 Ibid., pp. 77-78.
    7 Holderread Haggan, p. 17.

  25. John Hinkle says

    Well I see that my impression of Cameron as a dim bulb was a bit understated. He’s a fucking jagoff as well.

    And to think that that woman of wisdom and truth, Janet Parshall, defended him on her radio program last week.

    I tell ya, I don’t know where to go anymore to find the good Christian message. It’s like they’re all a sword-n-horse away from the crusades.

  26. sc_72717b0d8dc4053e632b6512091cef73 says

    Maybe Kirk should produce and star in a new version of Fiddler on the Roof, where Tevye’s daughter’s realize the errors of their ways, reject their suitors and marry fat old rich men.

    “You’ve heard he has a temper / he’ll beat you every night / but only when he’s sober / so you’re alright”

  27. cindy says

    And what about Bill Einwechter who advocated the stoning of disobedient teenagers in the January 1998 edition of the Chalcedon report — that God would continue to pour out his wrath on America until we started stoning middle and older teens.

    Here’s a synposis of some of Einwechter’s beliefs about daughters:

    Sons and daughters differ according to Einwechter and the “continuity of history” of name and family extends only through sons. Einwechter states that multigenerational faithfulness works differently for daughters because a daughter no longer carries on her own family’s heritage or work within her new marriage. She serves her new husband’s family name and “his covenant,” so their marriage allows the husband to “extend his influence into other families.”

    Daughters are the “dynamic means” whereby men extend their name and heritage “into other covenantal family units,” or more specifically as Einwechter implies, into her own family of origin. The man “extends the covenant” of his own fathers through marriage. “Daughters are not dead ends . . . Faithful families must work together to give their sons and daughters to one another in marriage.” He also explains that multigenerational faithfulness cannot be limited to simply training our children but should include “the goal of giving them in marriage to other well-trained children from godly homes.”

    It’s all about birthing large families that will be raised to vote in the next religious right president — a formally stated goal in many of the writings within the movement.

    Read more here (I used “Social Darwinism” because they throw around the term to manipulate their followers, not realizing that they’re essentially advocating social engineering themselves. They hate to be associated wit Darwin!) : http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008/12/spiritual-eugenics-of-multigenerational.html

  28. dingojack says

    “Faithful families must work together to give their sons and daughters to one another in marriage”.

    And Fundies think marriage equality leads to beastiality, but advocating sibling marriage is a-OK.

    ;) Dingo

  29. cindy says

    In context, they were not advocating the marriage of siblings, not that there isn’t some physical incest that goes on in addition to the covert stuff. There most definitely is a problem, especially when they treat men that women are created solely for the use and benefit of the opposite sex and are a lesser being that lacks discernment and understanding.

    It was a family of God “brothers and sisters” discussion. Einwechter was not talking about family members marrying one another. I posted the quote to point out how they treat daughters as insignificant and how worried these fathers are about advancing their own agenda. There’s also the Victorian notion that a family is better off with sons than they are with daughters.

    In the 200 Year Plan referenced in the original article here, Geoff Botkin talks about men planning huge numbers of descendants, but he clearly does not count daughters in that number. They are not worthy of note because they become the property of other men when (and if they let) their daughters marry.

    Per Botkin in the Sermon Audio referenced in the link, he states, on top of the other bizarre things he claim the following (speaking of the son that he wants to see become the Prime Minister of New Zealand):

    When he’s 57 and he can look across and see if he’s met those goals. Plot out your death and the death of your sons to see the result of your efforts. Each one of my children has roughly 156,000 male descendants. And that’s a lot of people to be applied to the works of righteousness we have laid out today.

    A related group teaches that because women were taken from Adam’s source material when they were drawn out of Adam, they claim that woman is only the indirect image of God, a derivative being that needs a male overseer. They then proceed to lay blame on women for everything wrong with the world, from original sin to a husband’s adultery to war in the Middle East and the bad economy.

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