Even Wingnuts Disagree With Florida Prayer Bill
The Florida legislature just passed a bill to allow many forms of prayer in schools that is so bad that even the wingnuts of Liberty Counsel think it goes too far and should not be made into law. The Palm Beach Post reports:
But the Liberty Counsel, an influential Orlando-based nonprofit that advances religious freedom issues, told the Post that it would urge House members to defeat Van Zant’s proposal.
“I’m an advocate of student speech,” said Mat Staver, founder of the counsel. “But this bill will run into constitutional problems and I don’t think it’s right to make school districts litigate this issue again — and they will have to.”
Staver said he was involved for eight years in a lawsuit stemming from the Duval County School Board’s approval of allowing student-led prayer at high school graduation ceremonies. In a court battle that stretched to the U.S. Supreme Court, prayers were eventually upheld — generally as long as they’re voluntary.
Here’s the bottom line:
Michael Allen, a constitutional law professor at Stetson University, said the fight over how far school prayer should go is almost always ready to be reignited. The “war on religion” theme has coursed through the presidential campaign, Allen pointed out.
He also said advocates on opposing sides are committed, and willing to engage in the legal siege any legislation to change existing standards will naturally trigger.
Indeed, the ACLU said Monday that if Van Zant’s proposal becomes law, the organization would almost certainly sue to declare it unconstitutional.
But at a time when many critics are examining the size and cost of government, Allen questioned whether it was right for lawmakers to enact laws which likely will require county school boards — and local taxpayers — to pay at least thousands of dollars in legal fees to defend them.
“You know the lawsuits will be filed against counties that try to enact a school prayer policy,” Allen said. “It really amounts of a form of unfunded mandate. You know the Legislature’s not going to pay the legal costs.”
It’s another variation of the Dover trap.
jnorris:
February 20th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
I just can’t understand the need for organized, lead prayers at school events. We have some organization in Charlotte NC that gets kids together one day a year to pray at the campus flagpole before the school day starts. That’s a model for praying at school , do it before or after school. Want to pray before the football game? Good, see you at the flagpole then we’ll go to the game. Problem solved.
Prayer at graduation? Try holding a baccalaureate service the night before at a church. All the seniors that want to pray can mumble until they’re blue in the face before going to the keg party.
gshelley:
February 20th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Maybe I’m being overly cynical, but I can’t help suspect that Staver’s objection is not that they are pushing religion into schools, but that they aren’t going to vet the content first, so atheist or islamic students could get up to deliver a message
magistramarla:
February 20th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
jnorris,
ONLY once a year? When I was teaching in Texas, they held that “meet you at the flagpole” crap once a week. Students and teachers alike gave those of us who passed by them dirty looks.
They also openly had prayers on the football field and at the graduation, the poor salutatorian had to deliver the invocation (xian prayer) before the ceremony.
peterh:
February 20th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
When will the conservatives realize the “war against religion” does not exist, but the war against against particularized religion is a crucial undertaking.
Michael Heath:
February 20th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
jnorris writes:
It’s like a predator marking its territory. “Others” are not welcome, get out. Here’s a perfect and literal example right here at FreeThoughtsBlog.
naturalcynic:
February 20th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
FIFY, Matt
Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity!:
February 20th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Don’t bet on it. When I graduated in ’85, there was a separate baccalaureate, held in the gym — same place the graduation takes place — two days before. Attendance was voluntary. But, and this is a big one, you had to volunteer to attend both. So I had to sit through a two hour fire-and-brimstone sermon by an evangelical minister who had dropped out of the Southern Baptists because they were too liberal.
Damn, I wish I had sued.
And any schools that decide to implement this idiocy deserve to get sued, too. And pay for the lawsuit. Sometimes, the only way to make people learn is to hit ‘em in the wallet. Hard.
The Lorax:
February 20th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Wait, thousands of dollars? Don’t you mean tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Across the entire state, this could add up to MILLIONS?
A few thousand dollars won’t even pay for the gas used to drive to the courthouse.
eric:
February 20th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
[My bold]
Well, there’s your problem. As gshelley said, the wingnuts are going to oppose anything insufficiently sectarian.
Rip Steakface:
February 20th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
ONLY once a week? I’m a student in a western Washington high school, and they have that “meet you at the flagpole” crap every day before school, and sometimes again in the hallway!
And again, this is in western Washington state – it’s one of the most nonreligious states in the country (second only to Colorado IIRC), and in one of the least religious parts of it.