Pity the Christians who dare to speak out—
Who defer to the bible’s authority—
Three-fourths of the nation, we’ve lost all our clout,
And become the most hated minority
In our great country’s past—in our halcyon days—
When our Christian beliefs were shown deference,
Why, we Christians could say what we like about gays,
And condemn them for sexual preference
We could subjugate women, deny them the vote,
But no longer do Christians hold sway
And the nation has suffered, I think you will note,
In not asking what Jesus would say.
We used to be mighty! We used to be feared!
Our endorsement could sway an election!
But now… we’re ignored, and occasionally jeered—
We’re endangered; in need of protection!
When minorities labeled their treatment a crime
In the past, we said “don’t make a fuss!”
That was then; this is now, and it’s different this time…
This time, the minority’s us!
On CNN’s Belief Blog, an amusing bit on the perception by some Christians that they are now a hated minority:
We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot.
As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality.
“In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.”
Yes, they are a persecuted minority. Like gays who risked being disowned by family, kicked out of apartments, losing jobs, and even injury or death, Christians risk… being labeled bigots, when they exhibit bigotry. This poor, persecuted three-fourths of the US population is up against a much more powerful, but mostly invisible, foe. In truth, Christians are an incredibly diverse population; the vast majority of the Christians I know personally are not bigots–I can think of two who are–but since the complainers are claiming the mantle of “Christian” rather than “older, white, male, conservative, evangelical Christian” (gee, I wonder why), I feel it’s only fair to grant them their full numbers. You can’t try to rally your fellow Christians to your side while denying that their numbers swell your ranks.
To the splinter minority of Christians who are playing this card: This is what it feels like to have your privilege reeled back in. You’ve had it so easy for so long, it feels like persecution when you only have it slightly better than the groups you hate.
And of course, if you treated your fellow humans with love as you claim your book dictates, perhaps minority status wouldn’t be such a big deal in the first place.
Always a pleasure to read your wordsmithing while enjoying a coffee in a cuttle mug.
I really don’t get how disagreed with is attacked. And the minority status? Nobody can explain that.
Minority is very easily explained. It is the many select various groups that feel their diverse and various life styles are the only true way to live. Also most left wing liberal Christians, who fall just short of saying “If it feelss good do it because our God is a loving God.” thereby creating a vast number of pseudochristians.You can take our “Book” and tear it up, burn it. spit on it, and very probably have urinated or defecated on it but thats quite alright because our God and us older,white,male,conservative Evangelical,Christians love everyone.i
“very probably have urinated or defecated on it”… Who, me? I’ve never treated any book that way. Why would you think such a thing?
And certainly, each splinter group that considers itself to have the one true truth is probably in the minority. But “Christians” are not–not even close. It’s tough to claim this is a Christian nation while still playing the oppressed minority card.
uh, what? A minority group is any group that lacks political/social power relative to the dominant group. It has nothing to do with how someone feels about their ‘lifestyle’.
might want to take a quick peek here, and try to get a rough grasp on the concept.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group
And if you are going to say that someone’s ‘lifestyle’ justifies them being treated as less then people, then you aren’t all too loving…
It’s the iron law of humbug. Christians only complain of persecution when they are prevented from doing it.
This issue keep coming up among certain older members of my Church and frankly makes me want to do very un Christian things to them wiht a rusty nail and plank of wood. The fact is that bigots who howl persecution actually mean we want the world to return to a world where we had every privilege going and we used church attendance as another way of policing the divide between us and them.
Like so many liberals you hear what I say but do not listen to what I say.You pick one statement and isolate it to try and make a point. WHERE DID i SAY ANYTHING about not treating people in a demeaning manner? If you listened to my statement you would have heard “God and us…love everyone” And if you do not believe Christianity is not becoming a minority check out various news stories about Mainstream religion.The days of the $5-5minute-drive through church service is here.Men cannot spare one hour a week for church but can spend five or six hours a week watching “sports”. I,m a believer not a belonger. I,m too tired after working all week. I could go on and with all the excuses I,ve heard but it would not prove anything to you. Benisons
Oh, biblerich… of course you *say* that you and god love everyone. But as a friend of mine used to say, “I’m listening to your words…but I’m watching your feet.” Love in words but not actions is not love. We have a word for when words and actions don’t match; we call it lying.
I think that sort of “Christian” (note quotes) always was a minority (and knew it). It’s just that they used to be “the tail that wagged the dog” and now they’re not any more.
Um… bullshit. As an atheist, I am a minority. And yet I don’t think that may way of living is the Only True way to live. In fact, I would suggest other people live differently (my apartment is currently a huge mess). Also, I don’t think the Only True way to live is to play the Decemberists discography in the background constantly so that your head is never clear of their songs.
By the way, what the hell do you mean by “pseudochristians”? My girlfriend says she is a Christian, thus I consider her to be a Christian. She doesn’t blather on about the Bible. She doesn’t go to church, because she has other things to do with her time, and has had difficulty finding a church in the past that didn’t creep her out. Does this make her a “pseudochristian”? Who gave you the power to dictate what makes one a real Christian?
The Holy Bible defines a Christian. II believe it gives me the right to use their definition. Who cares about your apt.
Although the percent of Christians in the U.S. is gradually shrinking, they are far from being a minority.
Hell, North Carolina just tried to blatantly violate the 1st amendment and establish Christianity as the official religion. Any number of other laws and proposals are justified as being based on Christian/Biblical values.
Obama is routinely demonized for not spouting off enough about God and Jesus.
Any group that has that much of a stranglehold over the politics of a country is far from being a minority, regardless of how few people actually belong to it.
Another example- millionaires may only be a percent or two in the U.S., yet they would not be considered a minority because they have far more social and political clout then the other 98%.
Biblerich, just what is your holy bible’s definition of a Christian?
In recent decades, the surest rout to political power in the United States (if you can’t afford to just buy it) is to gain Licensed Minority status. That gets you on the right side (actually the Left side) of many statutes and gives you standing to attack your enemies in civil court.
Note that North Carolina’s attempt to establish a state religion does not violate the First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law…” The extension of the First Amendment to the States is a classic piece of legislation-from-the-bench. The Supreme Court can get away with that. It’s probably the deepest bug in the Constitution, even if this instance did good.
Not a fan of the 14th amendment?
The Christian Right’s profession
Of political suppression
In matters of self-expression
Takes in-your-face aggression
And attacks in every medium
From radio harangues’ tedium
To billboards’ blatant podium
And sanctimonious idiom.
Minority? Their young-earth guff
And biblical sooth-saying puff
Fills textbooks full of bogus stuff.
To Jesus freaks I say, enough!
stever,
Do I detect paranoid Libertarianism?
“Licensed Minority status”? I thought maybe I was being dumb, so I actually Googled that. Nope, you’re just using exaggerated, made up terms. By the way, I wouldn’t say being a minority is a good way to have political power. It’s just that we’re starting to give a damn about the rights of minorities. When was the last time anyone lost politically for being heterosexual?
On a side note, did we scare off the mendacious little godbot?
If you,re looking for a dictionary type definition there is’nt one. However, there aremany many passages that describe a Christian. Here’s one:But to all who believed Him and accepted Him, He gave the right to become children of God. They are reborn-not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but birth that comes from God. John 1:12-13 (NLT) Real Christians are authentic, honest, and real.. They live out thier Chrisitian calling in a nondefensive and straightforward manner , who can admit thier need for a Savior. Do me , and possibly you, afavor. Go to your local library and check out a Bible. Read it not as THAT book that THOSE people hit Others over the head with. Read it as a novel with the books as chapters. And most importantly remember it was written 2000 years ago. Sorry, I forgot – read only the New Testament for now Benisons
Biblerich, you must remember–most of the atheists who hang around FtB have indeed read the bible. I have several copies in my office, actually. Many of us have also studied the history behind the bible, or comparative religion, or the psychology, sociology, or anthropology of religion. Atheists, you probably are well aware, score on average above Christians on tests of religious knowledge. (And it is not merely a matter of book learning; the strong majority of the atheists I know are former Christians, including former born-again Christians and former clergy.)
@ Biblerich
If you,re looking for a dictionary type definition there is’nt one.
Beg to differ: there are many, many dictionary-type definitions of Christianity, but apparently you don’t subscribe to any of them. Most of those definitions are pretty fuzzy, trying to include the diversity of 32,000 Christian denominations. Other, less widely accepted definitions, restrict Real Christianity to the members of one’s own cult, often excluding 99,9% of the 2 billion Christians worldwide. Such tight definitions are pretty useless for anyone outside the specific flock. On the other hand, such definitions are put aside whenever politics is involved: then every two horse town parish claims to authoritatively speak for “all Christians”.
Go to your local library and check out a Bible.
Why should I: I own four different editions (a 16th century German Luther bible, an Italian Catholic bible from 1949, the NKJ and the Douay-Rheims American Edition 1899). I’m a pensioner with lots of spare time, so I’ve read them all sooner or later in my lifetime. Plus, for completeness, the Qur’an, most of the Mahabharata, the Theravada and Mahāyāna scriptures, and a little Confucius. It is not a question of availability. Most people who really read the bible (both parts from begin to end) find it utterly abhorrent, contradictory, morally impractical, misogynistic, propagating slavery and antisemitism, and relying on prophesies that didn’t come true for 2000 years. Bible reading may have produced more atheists than all “New Atheists” combined.
proved my statement quite well. As you say 32,000 varied Christians there cannot be a “One size fits all” definition. It’s like me defining an atheist…A person who does not believe in God. I also am retired from thee workforce life. Now I can spend what time spreading the Good News. First let m e say the Bibles you mentioned are so out of date they make nice bookends. The Roman Catholics rewrote their entire tBible in 1970. Also any Bible printed before this date is loaded with so many mistakes that all they are good for is nice conversation pieces. This is due to the Dead Sea Scrolls, the find at Nag Hammadi ,vastly improve translation techniques and linguistic aids. Now if you want to compare libraries I have two copies of the Qur’an, a Manuel of Hadith, the Religion of Islam by Maulana Muhammed Ali, The Geneva Bible, the Septuagint with Apocrypha, the Jewish Study Bible ( highly recommended), the Jewish Annotated New Testament, In Buddha’s Words, the Way of Bodhisattva, African Beliefs In The New World to name a few. I did leave out all the mainstream, topical, and specialty Bibles. Sorry about the messup at the very beginning of this reply, but I am still learning the computer. What I started with was that you verified my point. As you said with 32,000 Christians there connt be a “One size fits all” definition.
As you say 32,000 varied Christians there cannot be a “One size fits all” definition.
If there were no “overarching” definition possible, then the word “Christian” would not mean anything. As things stand, Unitarians, Aryans, Syriacs, Mormons, Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Calvinists, Amish, Pentecostals, Russian and Greek Orthodoxs (and many more) all claim to be Christianity.
For someone outside Christianity – and that’s a solid majority of 5 billion people on this planet – all these differences in theology and cult are only of anthropological interest.
I travel a lot. “My book is the only true one.” is a sentence I’ve heard a few thousand times too often from Pakistan Muslims, Indian Hindu sadhus, Italian clerics, the occasional Rabbi, US-American pentecostal taxi drivers and both Buddhist and Christian monks all over the globe.
You know: any book that survived a millennium or two or three will surely contain one or the other wisdom. The Gilgamesh epic, the Upanishads, the Mahabharata, the Hadiths – they are all great reads, full of passion, color, cultural insights and thoughts about the human condition. The Qur’an and John’s apocalypse, not so much.
But of course, like the bible (which version, by the way?) or Shakespeare’s works they are not “true”. All these holy books are just another form of literature. “Merchant of Venice” says all you need to know about greed, envy & discrimination – until we find a book that’s better, or more differentiated. But that does not make Shakespeare a prophet or saint, it only shows that he was a keen observer of the human nature.
Which brings me to the real point in which we differ: I try to judge or decide on the basis of broad and unbiased observations, empirical facts and rational conclusions. Often I have to change my mind in the light of likewise rational arguments from others. I lack the sincerity of “absolute truth”, in fact I think there is no such thing.
Especially not on the basis of that cobbled-together and heavily redacted “New testimony”, which, as every scholar will tell you, is a rather arbitrary selection of early Christian texts of high variability circulating around the Mediterranean during the first century CE. Neither will I accept every bit of the Qur’an as “devine” and unquestionable. There is too much outright wrongness in all those books.
postles Creed. And if you read about the many mainstream religions you would find most differences to be non Scriptural. The anabaptists only believe in adult baptism. If someone wants to join an anabaptist church you must be baptised or rebaptised to join. The Pentacostal faith believes in the speaking in tongues, which most other faiths believed stopped at the end of the Apostolic age. The Presbyterians claim, as the Roman Catholics do, descendency from Peter. There are also silly arguments about the proper order of he Liturgy. There are many many more subtle and not so subtle dfferences. As to the many different Bibles its whether you like or want a literal or meaning driven version or a little of both (a very short explanation) There is a Bible that was originally written as a Childrens Bible that has been rewritten as a Bible for people that English is a second language. I have it and found it very for its intended purpose. You can find topical, gender specific,even written for alcoholics, Study Bibles as well as just plain ordinary BIibles.There are Bibles translated by one person such as the Ryrie or a collaberation by many scholars such as the NIV or NLT. Isuggest,if you want to form an enlightened opinion you dig little deeper.
@ Biblerich-
You confirm my presumption that the diversity of Christian denominations is indeed a wide field for anthropology. I presently live in Thailand, but I stem from Europe where the diversity of scripture resp. translations and “silly arguments over liturgy” led to incredible slaughter. My father’s family is from Bohemia, which was practically depopulated during the 30 years war.
I can understand that religious convictions are often part of the culture in which one is raised, and are thusly not overly questioned after one reaches the age of reason – like Santa Claus, the Easter rabbit, or the tooth fairy. As children, most of us believed in those mythical figures, and then we found out our parents lied to us. The belief in a god is not as easily debunked. Not all parents are stupid enough to claim that “God did it”, when in fact nurses, surgeons, firemen, or voluntary helpers saved lives, let people recover from sickness, or dug up locked-up miners. There is a strange wish for mystical entertainment in many people, they seem to like their lives gagged up by involving the creator of “everything” in their boring lives. Plus it’s so rewarding to have eternal values ( be they from 500 BCE, ca 100 CE, or 622 CE) so one can feel superior to everybody else and create moral “free-fire-zones”. And every believer does her/his own cherry-picking, adding still more diversity to the thousands of denominations. Have a look at Mosaic law, of which, to quote Jesus, not a iota is to be changed, and explain why, of all the 613 Mitzvah, only the ones concerning male homosexuality are quoted by fundamental Christians all the time? Is Christian diet kosher? Do Christians refrain from making fire or collecting sticks on a Sabbath? Cherry picking all the way down.
Don’t misunderstand me, please. I’m pretty glad that such cherry-picking is done, that mainstream Christians developed this technique to adjust their creed to changing times – otherwise they’d still have to believe in god-given kings, pestilences, catastrophes, slavery, female submission and the necessity of child bed deaths, and all the other atrocities once condoned or even prescribed by Christian churches.
But of course, seen from the outside, especially from a country where Christians are a minority, the Christian creeds aren’t overly attractive. Why, of all philosophies and ways of looking at the world should someone with the ability to chose take up such a belief system?
First let me say I envy you. Southeast Asia is one of the three places, except for India, that I would love to tour. I’m not exactly sure just what you mean by mystical entertainment. There really any mysticism in our belief.You have read my use of the terms “real Christian(s) or true Christian(s). These are the only believers I talk about. The biggest problem, to me, is the media and their need for sensationalism.terms This causes overgeneralism. I’ll give you two good examples of this. If the Gays had not overreacted to what one Fundamentalist (not Christian – their choice of title) preacher had said they wouldn’t have half the problems they do now. But because of what he said they assumed all Christians are homophobic thereby causing the schism that now exists. The other example of media hype is black/white crimes. If a white man kills ablack man it’s a hate crime because all whites hate blacks, but if a black man kills a white man iit’s an incident. This is a little simplified but the concept is true – the many are judged by the few. Jesus said ” For even the Son of Man came not tb be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ranson for many.” Matthew 20;28 NLT There is one more “fact” I would like to make clear. I dont’ know if you are familiar with the Pew or Gallup polls, I don’t know if they are world-wide or not. But they report that 80% of Americans are Christian and 40% of those go to church regularly. That tells me that only 40% of Americans are real Christians. Those others, whom I have tried to evangelize have many diverse excuses: “I’m a believer, not a belonger. OF COURSE I’M A CHRISTIAN,I haven’t murdreed anybody and I haven’t robbed a bank. (yet they can lie, steal, cheat,or fornicate but that’s o.k. because that.s human nature.) I’m a member of the $5.00-5 minute-Drive Thru church. oh they can be quite clever. I remember one man I talked to, he said he was way to busy to spend one hour week in church. I asked him how much time he spent watching sports? He promptly “about 8 hours. No,I don’t think the majority of Americans are Christian.
Thanks for your envy – it is appreciated. I spent the second half of my working life in Indonesia, South- and South-East-Asia. Didn’t spent too much time at the beaches, instead I’ve seen and dealt with horrible things, poisoned and genetically damaged people in Vietnam, mine-victims in Cambodia, displaced Hmong people in Thailand, tsunami-erased villages in Aceh, piled-up corpses hastily cremated with flame-throwers in Sri Lanka… although I’ve seen all those things, and worse, I’m still feeling “in place” with the patient, polite, hard working people here. Wouldn’t want to live elsewhere.
You use the term “overgeneralism”. I understand that you mean to say that “the media” treat crimes with an interracial personage different, depending on the race of the offender. Now, being an old man, I can very well remember when it was looked upon as “normal” to say that all people of color were born sex offenders and criminals. I recall Bob Jones University lifting the ban on black students in 1971, but only for married couples, explicitly to avoid sexual misconduct – a policy they gave up in 1975 for tax exemption reasons. There you have a fine example of a measure based on a (false) generalization. Empirically, there is no measurable difference in the frequency or severity of sexual misconduct between students of different races, although historically Jews, Irish, Blacks and lately Hispanics have been accused of such. As an ironic aside: here in Thailand, Americans and British are looked upon as “oversexed”. Well, this may be connected with the Viagra-type of tourism, but it’s nevertheless not true. Some bad examples are used to make a false generalization.
Now, speaking of the racism thing – Race has been an indicator of who rules and who is ruled upon in the US for a pretty long time. To put it blunt: white trash, living in a trailer park, is assured that he/she is miles ahead of a black surgeon. The black surgeon is an “abomination”, by rights he should not be able to master the exams. If he indeed did, it must be the result of a conspiracy. Now, for a moment, imagine the black surgeon’s life, his feelings, the incredible stupid things he – an educated, intelligent person – has to listen to. He is constantly reminded of his presumed inferiority. For centuries no white man has ever felt like that, believe me. Now, since the mid-sixties such overt racist slur is kind of illegal, according to a few SCOTUS decisions. But the idea of white supremacy, or at least black inferiority, is still strong , especially among the elderly. So, some kind of education towards law-abiding citizenry seems not only adequate but necessary. In other words, it is important to make clear that the whites have no longer privileges, and that the idea of white superiority is outright false. As a result of US-American post-war re-education in Germany I can assure you that there is no other way to erase racism from mainstream society.
So, bluntly, stop whining, Biblerich. The better of your media refuse to use racial stereotypes because they are still widely shared. Sometimes they may even invert them to teach the supremacists a lesson. Can’t see any wrong in that.
And I say this as a farang in Thailand, confronted with all kinds of mostly friendly but ridiculous stereotypes. But I abstain from “Western” prejudices as well.
As for that “Christianity theme”, I know the Pew polls. I understand that they mean that Christians are, contrary to the widely held opinion, a mere minority in the US. And, considering that 25% of US population are registered Catholics with a rather high church attendance rate, this diminishes the importance of the vocal evangelical denominations (and the political lobby that “christianized” the Dollar and the pledge in the thirties)…
I must say that I judge people by what they do, and by the way they reach their conclusions. It’s a pretty diverse world, and religious arguments only work inside a belief. In Singapore, my team included Hindu, Sikkh, Muslim, Buddhist, Christians and Japanese guys of unknown belief. We finally excluded all religious arguments, which meant that only values shared by all (which was an astounding multitude) were accepted. But of course the Hindus and most Buddhists stayed vegetarian, the Chistians ordered pork, the Muslims ate Halal, and the Japanese and I ate everything. Folklore, you know.
Sorry to mislead you. I was not playing a race card. I probably should have prefaced it with “Here in America” where terms like the herd instinct, the butterfly effect, or even mass hysteria are common. The media does not use these terms due to “political correctness” but common in everyday conversation when talking conversationally. Do not believe there is no caste system here in America. It is not based on race alone, it is more insidious than that and much more diverse than as in India. You should here what some of our major colleges are teaching. Students may be graduating with a head full of knowledge, but do not have the knowledge to use their heads.