The Audacity of being public post was mostly about this, but I was being cryptic for the time being. I’ll stop being cryptic now: it was about Justicar doing a video to call Jen a fucking nitwit for not totally concealing her location from creeping stalking peering thugs like Justicar – who takes very good care to keep his particulars secret, so that he can creep and stalk and peer and call names with impunity.
I watched it and it made me fucking furious, for the reasons mentioned in The Audacity of being public. I was disgusted by his fake rage at Jen for daring to tweet a picture that included a street sign, and by his starting with announcing that he doesn’t believe claims about threats from me or Rebecca, and by his boasting of his own carefully concealed identity, and by his pretending to be giving Jen advice while vomiting all this out in a VIDEO – I was disgusted by the whole venomous thuggish mess. As I said – I never thought about threats at all until people like him – very much including him – started fixating on me. I’m not some neurotic imbecile who thinks the streetlamp is about to kick her – and neither is Jen, or Rebecca, or Amy.
The only reason we think about such things is because Justicar and people like Justicar have been vomiting bile about us in public for two years.
That’s it. There is no other reason. They’re obsessed, and obsessed people are weird and disturbing and worrying. We do not know why they are so obsessed. It’s an amusement and game for them, it’s a social life, but why it revolves around us remains a mystery. But it is not a mystery that the objects of that kind of obsession should find it threatening. No it’s not. Fucking Justicar is just pretending it is, while he carries right on with the obsession and stalking and production of venomous stalkerish videos.
Hooray for Out Atheists, right?! Speak up! Walk tall! Come out of the closet! Be loud be proud be here. Of course if you do, and you have the bad sense to be a feminist or a mouthy woman at the same time, you will be persecuted. But come on out anyway!
You said it, Ophelia:
“Fucking Justicar.”
Toxic little clown, just like the rest of his weak-minded, childish little tribe.
Thanks, Justicar, for showing us all in glorious fucking detail that you are part of the reason Jen basically quit doing anything in public, that others feel they should take precautions at all, that some don’t even attend public events anymore and that even those that do more or behave as they always did nonetheless look over their shoulders far more than they should ever have to. You spoiled rotten two-fisted wanker.
There isn’t a Rift deep enough to keep fuckers like Justicar as far from me as I’d like.
There’s a perverse comfort in this.
The Slyme Pit is the central hub of a hate network directed at feminist atheists. They gather up all the dirt and muck they can find to fire at them, which means that they’d be the first to know about any good counter-arguments to social justice, and possess the means and motive to spread those far and wide.
So it speak volumes that their core message is slander, lies, bullying, and threats. Where are the arguments? If an obsessive bunch of haters can’t find them, doesn’t that suggest there are none? Doesn’t that mean there is no good reason to oppose feminism and social justice? There is no good reason to keep them from being an important part of the atheist movement? There is no good reason to stay idle against sexism/racism/etc. within our community?
These videos and actions suggest the progressives are right, and justified in agitating for change. It’s not much comfort, but it is something to help keep your chin up.
Also sprach Justicar:
Donner und Blitzen, Herr Justicar thinks he can point something out to Jen without contacting her! Sorry, mate, If you put a message addressed to someone where you figure they will eventually run across it then you are contacting them. In fact this is almost the paradigm case of contacting someone.
But if, as he maintains, he was not contacting Jen, then he can’t consistently claim he was giving her advice. If any of this does get to court he’s going to make a complete fool of himself.
This Justicar chap is a good ad for the need to keep pushing back against the misogyny and the hate Just remember, always keep this in mind: one day his children or grandchildren will look at his recorded public words with scorn and disgust. We are making that possible just by fighting back.
I’m still pretty amazed at the level of obliviousness possible in these rankest of bullies that think of themselves as persecuted heroes. Reminiscent of… Oh yes, the Xtian right. These guys really oughtta join just pass GO and join the Westboro Baptist Church already. It’s a much better fit for their personalities.
Mein grammar. Och!
They’re obsessed, and obsessed people are weird and disturbing and worrying. We do not know why they are so obsessed. It’s an amusement and game for them, it’s a social life, but why it revolves around us remains a mystery. But it is not a mystery that the objects of that kind of obsession should find it threatening.
EXACTLY.
I can understand why the stalkers don’t get this concept. They’re obviously disturbed, irrational, and lack the slightest bit of empathy, so I wouldn’t expect them to draw the connection between their behavior and the behavior of their targets/victims. (Otherwise, presumably, they’d stop.)
What I can’t understand is why this seems to be a difficult concept for the onlookers to get. The ones who don’t do much themselves beyond agreeing with the assholes. All those who mock and laugh–or even get angry–at those crazy feminazi FTBullies with persecution complexes. I just wanna shake some of these people, start yelling, “Don’t you SEE? This video is PROOF of what we’ve been saying all along! How can you take his bullshit at face value as evidence against Jen; why don’t you see this as evidence that supports what so many of us have been saying for years?”
Especially because you can see that so many of these people are fans of video series like the Thunderfoot “Why Do People Laugh At Creationists” series (or, hell, are Thunderfoot). To me, Justicar’s video is exactly like the many youtube creationist videos out there, where it doesn’t take much skill at all to see all the logical flaws and rip it to shreds. He couldn’t shoot himself (or his “movement”) in the foot any more obviously unless he made a five minute video with just himself and a Glock, blowing his toes off. The same people who would never, ever let a youtube Christian get away with such blatant irrationality (and cruelty) just don’t see it when it’s a video by a youtube misogynist, instead.
GRR. The whole thing makes me want to rip my hair out. My two biggest pet peeves: hypocrisy and irrationality. And it’s so depressing…I really believed, when I left the church three (ish) years ago, that even though I was leaving the community where I had grown up, where all my friends and family were, where the entirety of all my hopes and dreams (social, familial, career) had rested for 24 years, at least I was leaving all that hypocrisy and deliberate ignorance behind and entering into a community where a devotion to rational thinking minimized (or even eliminated) those traits. HA! Maybe I should sue for false advertising!
DJ Grothe currently Twitter follows Justicar (and Thunderfoot and several other harassers for good measure). In contrast, Grothe blocked Jen from Twitter and FB when she dared criticize Penn Jillette for publicly calling a woman who displeased him a cunt.
I’m thrilled that Jamy Ian Swiss feels welcome at the JREF as an atheist. And I find it interesting that Swiss thinks that the 30% female TAM attendance is proof that the JREF does not have a problem.
But Grothe’s tacit approval of misogyny-driven harassment, coupled with his staunch intolerance of criticism of sexist behavior is what drove me away from the JREF. There’s no possible way I would be welcome at the JREF or TAM, given my feminist values. I am mildly curious to know what the JREF imprimatur to harassment of certain feminists will do to TAM attendance, if it becomes more widely known. Again, who knows? It may make the JREF stronger.
kellym:
I doubt it.
Their Vatican style policy towards sexual harassment is already a recipe for disaster. Given the type of person they seem to be attracting, it may be only a matter of time before something really nasty happens at one of their conferences. If so, they’ll respond with the usual wagon circling and self pity, at which point some muckraking journalist will destroy them.
I also get the impression that many people are holding back out of respect for Randi.
If the characters who do things like record these videos weren’t always the same ones, making the same “what, who me? I was just trying to help!” sorts of noises, the logically inescapable conclusion would be that we’re dealing with bad satire. Well-meaning folk would (I would hope, at least) not keep pressing the same buttons, escalating the same tensions – they’d take some criticism to heart at some point, and modulate behaviour if they were interested in anything but preserving their own mythologies.
And of course, the way this works is that people on Justicar’s “side” think that posts like this one (Ophelia’s, not my comment) are ways to preserve a different mythology. But I only see one person being a wilful ass in this instance, and it’s not Ophelia.
On a separate matter – something that’s troubling in conversation/comments for many months now comes up again in kellym’s comment (#8): while specific people and specific circumstances are of course to be treated on their merits, it doesn’t seem obvious that we should reach any conclusions about sentiment based on who people follow on Twitter. You might follow people you want to keep an eye on, rather than because you support them. (Blocking someone, by contrast, does seem far less ambiguous.)
True; there are several reasons to follow people and not all equate to liking or endorsement. I avoid using following as a heuristic.
Sometimes even blocking isn’t really diagnostic of much. I sometimes block people just because I’m tired of seeing whatever it is.
QFMFT
How’s that “dialog” going again?
Heh – funny you should mention it. Rebecca on the fetish for “dialogue.”
No word from Mick Nugent on the dialogue lately either, huh?
Not that I’ve seen, but I haven’t been looking.
@Sally, Seems we are waiting on the pittizens response after Stephanies controversial post got through… No clue on if they have officially thrown the towel in, but I’d imagine her getting her way on the non-editing of the last submission makes for a good excuse. It really looked like too much work for even a committee of pittizens, very hard to land any punches and you need to use your brains. Where’s the fun in that!
I was wrong in thinking the “dialogue” on Nugent’s blog had died down once the other “dialogue” started. It was still active just a few days ago, and still full of people explaining why it’s urgent to call me a cunt all the time.
Thanks again, Michael Nugent.
Thus demonstrating yet another of the observations under
attackdebate… that remaining neutral or silent provides de facto support to the harassers.Just had a look. Ugh. It’s the same angry men doing it since I was last there, too, including that photoshopping creepazoid, Skepsheik.
Quite so. I tweeted angrily about it at Nugent, again, so now I’m arguing with Derek Walsh (also of Atheist Ireland) about why it’s really not a great wonderful swell peacemaking move to invite a whole new round of calling me cobweb cunt on Nugent’s blog.
Very tempting to go looking for info on the web about where Justicar lives. Fortunately I don’t have the time, nor do I know enough about him. But I’m sure somebody out there does.
Apologies — I see that’s been said elsewhere.