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Sep 06 2012

It’s all in your head

Misogyny? What misogyny?

I don’t know what you’re talking about! There is no misogyny!

Via Coffee Loving Skeptic on Facebook.

70 comments

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  1. 1
    Alyson Miers

    Is PZ now separate from the FTBullies?

  2. 2
    Tabby Lavalamp

    I really don’t get the obsessive hatred they have for Watson, Skepchick, and FtB.

  3. 3
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’m confused. As a commenter here, I guess I’m one of the FTBullies (or at least a fan).

    I’m a white straight woman. I should hate myself for being white and straight, but since being a woman makes me think all the bestest things about myself (especially being a feminist), should that trump my hate for myself? Or should that make me hate myself even more because I hate white straight people with that special extra strong feminist hatred?

    But I guess it’s all irrelevant since, according to that last bracelet, I hate everybody anyway.

    Alyson Miers,

    PZ, is the first among equals FTBullies. ;)

  4. 4
    Albert Bakker

    Me neither. But I don’t expect it to be intelligible, just pathological.

  5. 5
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    beatrice
    Well, maybe there’s an approved straight chorus we can join?
    Let’s ask Josh…

  6. 6
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    I don’t get it?

  7. 7
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Yes, you are all members of my Approved Straight Chorus. I will now co-opt you, your movement, your branding, and shun-censor-witch-hunt you.

  8. 8
    Miriam

    That’s funny, I’m a white person and I don’t feel hated by FtB. I guess I’m just wrong, then.

  9. 9
    eric

    Amazing that people would go to that amount of effort just to call someone self-centered.

    Beatrice:

    I should hate myself for being white and straight, but since being a woman makes me think all the bestest things about myself (especially being a feminist), should that trump my hate for myself?

    I read the bands as representing ’causes you care about,’ so the implication is not that you hate the groups that are crossed out, but that you do not fight for/care about those causes.

  10. 10
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    I’m going to create Approved Straight Chorus+ to do actual singing on top of whatever else, and then stand back and let the abuse roll in. DEEEEP RIFTS!!!

  11. 11
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    eric,

    Reading these people for a while has brought me to the conclusion that it’s all the same to them.
    Don’t care for something = hate it = shoot everyone who doesn’t agree in the head (you may substitute any other excessive metaphor)

    Unless it’s about them, of course. Then they just don’t care about feminism, but love women (except feminists, but I guess we aren’t “real” women anyway) and aren’t sexist. Not even when changing Rebecca’s surname.

  12. 12
    Renee Hendricks

    At least get the crediting correct, Ophelia. It’s via @y_u_no_skeptic (according to the same post you snagged this from).

  13. 13
    oolon

    Anyone that argues with them is an FtBs mouthpiece and in PZ and Rebeccas pocket and can therefore be dismissed. Its a bit bizarre given I argue with anyone – but they are so sure I’m a shill that it has tempted me to be more anti them than I would probably be otherwise.

    I cannot see them growing much as anyone voicing support for any part of FtBs or Skepchick will be shat on. Most reasonable people having a look at the variety of blogs here will likely find at least one blogger or article they agree with!

  14. 14
    secha

    Y’know the people that usually pull out the ‘you don’t care about straight white males!’ card tend to add Christian onto that list. I’d have thought that might worry the person that made that little graphic. Apparently not.

    Also I’m guessing they wouldn’t know a radical feminist if one smacked ‘em round the back of the head…

  15. 15
    rq

    So if we’re all in the Approved (Whatever) Chorus, does that mean we’re hating on the band?

  16. 16
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    Again, we see the same level of intellectual bankruptcy from the same clowns as always “there’s no problem with sexism and harassment of women in the atheist/skeptical community, and I’ll make my point with evidence and reasoned argument sexist harassment of women in the atheist/skeptical community!” And then the other clowns, the enablers, will any second pop up to say “I don’t generally agree with sexism and harassment, but I personally dislike the target so I think it is sort of acceptable in this instance.”

  17. 17
    Nemesis

    Erm, excuse me… Where is the misogyny in that picture? Slagging off Rebecca Watson does not equal misogyny in any sane definition of the term.

    mi·sog·y·ny
       [mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-]
    noun
    hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny

    Note the plural there, women. Dislike of one woman – even if she is Rebecca Watson – does not mean dislike of all women.

    And now watch this comment be deleted in 3, 2, 1…

  18. 18
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    I really don’t get the obsessive hatred they have for Watson, Skepchick, and FtB.

    I do. They aren’t in the “club” because the “club” doesn’t tolerate Whiny Ass Bigot Trolls. And they are really REALLY bitter about it. Because the “club” lets bitches in. Uppity ones too!

    That’s why there’s so much imitation/paraody or ridiculous lies and not one ounce of honesty, integrity or actual argument. They go nuthin’ – we know it, they know it, they know we know it.

    Maybe that should be Bitter Whiny Ass Bigot Trolls.

  19. 19
    PZ Myers

    WTF?

    I don’t get it. I’ve got the same bands as the humanists, but I’ve crossed out “men” and “children”, for instance? Baffling. If you’re going to do a graphic of a concept, it should make it clearer, not more confusing.

    Do people with talent at graphic arts avoid atheism? (See also: American Atheist billboards.)

  20. 20
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    You gotta love the good old “I don’t hate women, I just hate Rebecca Watson” crowd. And why do they hate her? Because she didn’t back down when a proper little woman should have apologized for her grave mistake of insulting a man’s manliness, forever given up on feminism and brought someone his beer.

  21. 21
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    Where is the misogyny in that picture? Slagging off Rebecca Watson does not equal misogyny in any sane definition of the term.

    Making a ridiculously stupid post is so easy when you deliberately divorce it from its context huh. Much easier than being honest.

    Like I said, WABT got nothing. Except, of course, whining about imaginary “censorship!”.

  22. 22
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    And now watch this comment be deleted in 3, 2, 1…

    *eyeroll*

  23. 23
    BrianX

    Nemesis:

    Where would be the fun of deleting you when we can mock you mercilessly for your attempt to pretend there’s no context to the overall picture?

    Seriously, wtf is up with people who try to pretend they can isolate a statement like this picture (and it is a statement) from the context it comes from? It’s bullshit, in the most academic sense of the term. You think that gives you some kind of plausible deniability? I’m not too sure that this kind of thing is exactly dogwhistling, but it’s very similar, and can be dismissed for the same reasons. Kindly fuck off.

  24. 24
    stakkalee

    @17
    Erm, do you not consider the word ‘twat’ a misogynistic slur?

  25. 25
    oolon

    @Nemesis, don’t you think the group ‘radical feminists’ comprises more than one woman? Also do you think the term ‘twatsonites’ is meant to comprise more than one woman?

    So to fulfil your requirement there only needs to be hatred, dislike, mistrust of that group of women… Dunno maybe it is because I’ve been brainwashed by FtBs but it seems pretty clear to me?

  26. 26
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Dishonest question with bonus “OMG CENSORSHIP!!!”. Go back to troll school, Nemesis.

  27. 27
    leftwingfox

    That’s funny, I’m a white person and I don’t feel hated by FtB. I guess I’m just wrong, then.

    Being able to differentiate between “some, many, most” and “me” helps a lot.

  28. 28
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Erm, do you not consider the word ‘twat’ a misogynistic slur?

    Oooh, let me try and guess the answer to this one :

    Brits use it all the time and it has nothing to do with female genitalia, it’s used to call people stupid so it can’t possibly misogynistic. And someone’s wife calls her girlfriends twats all the time as an endearment!

  29. 29
    julian

    And now watch this comment be deleted in 3, 2, 1…

    Watch your face get deleted in 3, 2, 1…

  30. 30
    stakkalee

    Beatrice, I love those justifications the most, because they explicitly ignore the actual etymology of the word. “We use ‘cunt’ all the time in Britain!” Really? What’s the history of the word? Oh, it’s based on women’s genitalia there, too? Whoops you’re a moron!

  31. 31
    BrianX

    julian:

    Are you saying Nemesis’ face is/has a stupid butt?

  32. 32
    hotshoe

    Coffee-loving-skeptic, Tony Ryan, didn’t want to join Abbie’s slimepit so he created one of his very own. He’s proud of coining the term “feminaziism” (which he may not have actually created, but his pride in it is genuine) . I’d hate to meet anyone named Tony Ryan in real life, because I’d hate to think that I was talking to the TR who is such a creep. Shame he had to go and spoil such a decent common name.

  33. 33
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    Being able to differentiate between “some, many, most” and “me” helps a lot.

    That’s the source of the problem, isn’t it. WABTs are throwing major wobblers because they recently discovered that people don’t have to tolerate their presence. Because they should have to! They’re dudes! Dudes get to do whatever they want and everyone has to cheer! Boys will be boys, after all!

  34. 34
    secha

    It’s always one woman.
    It’s always that woman who said ‘guys don’t do that’
    It’s always just that boobquake woman
    It’s always that woman faking interest in X because it’s cool
    It’s always that particular attention whore
    It’s always that woman who wore the wrong thing, said the wrong thing, acted the wrong way, spoke at the wrong time.

    It’s always one woman except collectively it kind of really isn’t.

  35. 35
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    stakkalee,

    Yeah, they’re standard excuses. Someone should really try and come up with something new. It would at least make the arguments less boring if no less frustrating.

  36. 36
    eric

    Erm, excuse me… Where is the misogyny in that picture? Slagging off Rebecca Watson does not equal misogyny in any sane definition of the term.

    Try and follow the logic: if you use ‘fairy’ as an insult, you’re showing a probable bias against gays. If you use ‘geriatric’ as an insult, you’re probably showing bias against old people. And if you use ‘twat’ as an insult, you are showing…what, Nemesis? Can you complete the sentence?

  37. 37
    John Horstman

    I don’t get it. Seriously, I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean. If it’s supposed to be groups that the captioned like, it’s confusing to have PZ apparently dislike so many categories to which he belongs. Also, Radical Feminism is not the same thing as Radical Lesbian Separatism; Radical Feminism covers a lot of philosophical territory, most broadly referring to any branch of feminism that seeks to change underlying institutional structures instead of working to gain access to power, recognition, equality, etc. via extant structures. (It’s why I’m always confused when I hear about Radical Feminists’ supposed collective transphobia: trans feminists are radical by definition, since binary, naturalized gender is an existing social institution around which a hell of a lot is currently organized, and an attitude of prescriptive sex/gender congruence is still so widespread that transitioning is a radical act.) Radical feminists also apparently don’t like White or Black people. (I though one of the criticisms was that feminism is still so very White?)

    So confused.

  38. 38
    John Horstman

    @33: Hehe, nice.

  39. 39
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    secha – spot on.

    Case in point: this story that PZ recently linked to

    If you feel like despairing for humanity, read the comments. The fact that a man murdered a woman and her children is HER FAULT because Excuse X, Justification Y, Idiotic Bigotry Z.

    but there’s no misogyny. nosiree! It’s always about that ONE woman, because otherwise these chickenshit WABTs have to admit there’s a problem. And, by ignoring the problem, they can maintain their delusions that they, themselves, are not part of the problem.

    Belief in Bigfoot – now THAT’s a REAL problem.

  40. 40
    hyperdeath

    The “I don’t hate [group], I just hate [outspoken member of group]” argument occurs with every form of bigotry. This is no exception.

  41. 41
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    secha, it is remarkably and unfortunately similar to the right-wing apologia for terrorism from the white supremacist Christian nationalist militia movement. They are all “lone wolves” acting totally alone even though they all use the same tactics, read the same books, subscribe to the same newsletters, join the same websites, all have each others’ phone numbers on speed-dial, etc. They declare that there’s no pattern by assertion in the face of evidence to the contrary, while using the exact sort of languages that bullies the targets of violence while encouraging even more violence from the people who they claim are each a “lone wolf” acting completely alone.

  42. 42
    John Horstman

    @19: I’m equally confused – you apparently want to exclude yourself on a number of counts(?).

    As to graphic artists, there are some skilled atheist ones, or at some skilled ones willing to work for atheists. Just check out these slick billboards:
    http://unitedcor.org/node/943
    http://ffrf.org/news/releases/view-ffrfs-god-fixation-billboards-in-charlotte/

    American Atheists should get designer contact info from FFRF and COCORE.

  43. 43
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Psst, Illuminata: It’s WATB. :D

  44. 44
    Bernard Bumner

    It is just juvenile. Actually, not just. It is also incoherent.

  45. 45
    Nemesis

    Threats and twisting of the actual point. How predictable.

    BTW, I don’t have a clue where that profile picture came from, but I can assure it’s not me – so don’t go attacking whoever it is.

    PZ Myers was also included in that picture, and how on earth can hating HIM be misogynistic? Or do you know something about him I don’t?

    As for “twat” being used in the picture, if whoever created that picture is a Brit, it’s no more misogynistic than “dick” or “prick” is misandrist in British usage – and I strongly suspect it’s just a pun on Watson’s name.

  46. 46
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    looks at #28
    looks at Nemesis’ comment

    I want a cookie. For reading these guys long enough to know how predictable they are or for Nemesis’ stealing my line, doesn’t matter. I deserve a pity-cookie for either of those.

  47. 47
    Rob

    I was going to give nemesis the mocking they so richly deserve, but on reflection they did such a good job on themselves and others have filled in the gaps so well I’ll just leave it at that.

    Well done.

  48. 48
    sawells

    Ooh, another case of the “misogynistic slurs aren’t misogynistic in Britain” lie. Some of us live in Britain, Nemesis. We can see you lying.

  49. 49
    James

    Why are you pretending nobody can see through your bullshit? You think everybody reading these comments all somehow forgot why those people are attacking Rebecca in the first place? I mean, I really don’t get what you’re trying to pull here.

  50. 50
    Ophelia Benson

    Beatrice, you get your cookie. In fact you get two!

  51. 51
    Ophelia Benson

    James – your comment could be addressing either “side”…Just so you know.

  52. 52
    WithinThisMind

    I keep hearing about these ‘radical feminists’ that use abortion as their primary birth control, want to execute 90% of men and just keep the rest in kennels for breeding purposes, and think all sex is rape.

    But aside from the occasional Poe, I’ve yet to find any actual evidence that such people exist, let alone that they are a statistically significant percentage of even just the ‘feminist’ population.

    They must be hiding with the gays who want to force everyone to be homosexual starting with the schoolkids, and the ‘black people’ who want to institute white slavery as part of reparations. Probably in some undersea volcanic lair.

  53. 53
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    mmm, chocolate.

  54. 54
    jamesfrank

    @Ophelia

    Ah. Meant to address Nemesis who is playing coy by pretending attacks on PZ Myers have nothing to do with misogyny (because he himself isn’t a woman, thus the attacks couldn’t be related to the hatred of women? That’s just painfully fallacious).

  55. 55
    Alyson Miers

    Does anyone else notice how human beings now apparently come in only two colors?

  56. 56
    Brian

    I’m a white, privileged, western guy. How is it I fit into the approved chorus?

  57. 57
    Aratina Cage

    Secular humanists can have “absolutely everybody”. That’s just plain dumb. I want no part of it.

  58. 58
    Trebuchet

    I’m a white, privileged, western guy. How is it I fit into the approved chorus?

    Me too. And old as well, which may be why I’m having so much difficulty reading the bands in the picture. Am I understanding it correctly; that “twatson” and co. only care about women? Which is, of course, bullshit!

    Speaking of BS, a post on FTB this morning, by Ed I think, proclaiming the dropping of rape charges against Julian Assange to be a good thing, has disappeared. That’s kind of chickenshit.

  59. 59
    Godless Heathen

    @James Horstman-same here. I’m so very, very confused.

  60. 60
    fwtbc

    Ophelia: could you please add an alt tag to the image, or a description of it in the post, please?

    Thanks!

  61. 61
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Nemesis:
    Not too strong on critical thinking or reasoning I see.
    Don’t worry, we can get you some bands too.
    We can even put the big red X on both of them for you.

  62. 62
    Chris

    Nemisis,

    1. Yes, it is possible to use ‘twat’ without misogynistic intent, and yes, it quite clearly is a pun on her name, but when you use ‘twat’ as a put-down to someone who you know considers the term misogynistic, it is pretty disingenuous to claim ignorance or coincidence.

    2. It says ‘Twatsonites’, ie plural, so it is not just her.

    3. If someone spoke out against racism and was greeted with a barrage of name calling which focussed on the colour of their skin, it would be pretty obvious that there was racism involved. Why is it so hard to see the misogyny here?

  63. 63
    Chris

    I was going to suggest a new word, but a quick google shows someone else has already thought of it…

    ‘misogytroll’: someone who goes into troll mode whenever the subject is feminism. (At least that’s how I define it.)

    This, of course, won’t stop them complaining about being called a misogynist, even though their behaviour is indistinguishable from one. And even though they quite clearly can’t stand any talk of women’s rights.

  64. 64
    dirigible

    “As for “twat” being used in the picture, if whoever created that picture is a Brit, it’s no more misogynistic than “dick” or “prick” is misandrist in British usage – and I strongly suspect it’s just a pun on Watson’s name.”

    As a Brit, I’m not familiar with your use of the word “just” there.

    You seem to be using it to imply that the contempt behind changing someone’s name to include a gendered pejorative can be excused by the act of expressing that contempt.

    That really doesn’t work.

  65. 65
    sawells

    @62: let’s also bear in mind that even using the word twat “without misogynistic intent” doesn’t mean it’s being used without misogynistic effect.

    Also, we wouldn’t believe someone who claimed “Yes, I’m insulting a black person by calling them a nigger, but my words were without racist intent”.

  66. 66
    Chris

    sawells,

    As improbable as it sounds, there are some people who genuinely don’t know the origins of the word twat. (My wife was mortified when I told her what it meant – she thought it was a variant of twit. True story.)

    My point was that this is clearly not the case here.

  67. 67
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    Psst, Illuminata: It’s WATB. :D

    I know, but I hate that one. I like Whiny Ass Bigot Trolls better.

  68. 68
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Chris

    3. If someone spoke out against racism and was greeted with a barrage of name calling which focussed on the colour of their skin, it would be pretty obvious that there was racism involved. Why is it so hard to see the misogyny here?

    Well, because nanannanaaanaaa-I-can’t-hear-you-you-evil-feminazi-bitches-are-seeing-misogyny-everywhere-and-I’m-not-a-misogynist-therefore-I’m-going-to-wish-you-were-raped-but-not-all-women-just-you-because-you’re-so-annoying.
    I hope that answers your quetion ;)

  69. 69
    Chris

    Giliell,

    Pretty much sums it up.

  70. 70
    markbrown

    #45

    I am a Brit, and have just conducted an informal survey of 7 fellow Brits on Skype. We all agree that while usage of insults like “twat” and “cunt” are common here, they are still obviously meant in a misogynistic way. In fact, we’re also of the opinion that it’s very common in the UK for men to insult their friends by implying they are girls. We know what is implied when “twat” and “cunt” are used… and “cow” to tie into the last post.

    So, please feel free to shove your rationalisations up your arse (not ass).

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