Dirty


Amanda Marcotte at Slate discusses Susan Jacoby’s article based on her Women in Secularism talk.

Jacoby argues that secularism really should embrace feminism, especially considering that feminism (and I’ll add, gay rights, which is intertwined with feminism) is the most secular social justice movement in history. Maintaining male dominance has been one of the primary functions of religion throughout history…

As it has been one of the primary functions of culture throughout history, as Susan Moller Okin argued in Is Multiculturalism Bad for Women? It’s central. Make sure women are dominated so that there won’t be any scary doubts about paternity or any scary possibility of being pussy-whipped.

Jacoby doesn’t mention it, but the problem has grown beyond the casual sexism behind marginalizing women’s issues or even male atheists ignorantly deploying negative stereotypes about women in their arguments. As more women have joined with the movement, more voices have been making these connections between feminism and secularism, which awakened a previously unknown contingent of angry misogynist atheists. Atheist activists who make overtly feminist arguments have been targeted by vicious harassment campaigns, often for no other reason than trying to reduce the amount of sexual harassment women encounter at conventions. One blogger who started a forum for atheists who want to focus more on social justice than trying to get “under God” out of the Pledge received so much abuse that she quit blogging. While most secularists are agreeable to incorporating feminist worldviews into the agenda, the few who oppose feminism have been so dogged that female atheists can’t be faulted if they decide to put their time and attention elsewhere. Casual sexists can be persuaded to take a more female-inclusive approach through education, but unfortunately, education doesn’t work on dogged misogynists. As long as the harassment and abuse of atheists who speak out about feminism [doesn’t] stop, the low numbers of female participation in secularist events will likely continue.

It’s true you know. For the first time, yesterday and today, I’m feeling something like what Jen felt – wanting to get out. Everything seems dirty and polluted, including me.

 

 

Comments

  1. says

    For the first time, yesterday and today, I’m feeling something like what Jen felt – wanting to get out.

    Please don’t let it get to you.

    You have many supporters, even if we don’t comment as often as the crazies.

    Yes, we understand that it can be hard. But keep fighting.

  2. davidmc says

    Ophelia, please edit that last sentence, if the arseholes read it ,they will take it as encouragement, and arrive in droves.
    You changed my life…well my vocabulary at least, so please keep up the good work, and how about an update on Cooper?

  3. bcmystery says

    Ophelia, you’ve been an important part of my own ongoing education. I know I’m just one guy, but it’s clear I’m not alone in feeling this way. Thank you.

  4. sambarge says

    I hope you get nothing but supportive comments on this post, Ophelia. Perhaps I should comment more often but your posts are daily reading for me. Thank you for what you do. I’m sorry about the hate.

  5. CGM3 says

    Would it help any if I apologized on behalf my gender? We can be utter idiots (sometimes without even trying).

  6. smhll says

    the few who oppose feminism have been so dogged that female atheists can’t be faulted if they decide to put their time and attention elsewhere.

    Amen! Or whatever the secular synonym is.

    Ophelia, I value your writing very much. However, it is completely your decision if you want to refresh your spirits by doing something that is more fun and less aggravating for whatever length of time you like. I personally endorse “more fun” as a lifestyle choice.

  7. xmaseveeve says

    I hope you and Cooper are doing okay. Poor old Cone Dog. It was nice the way you fell for him. Dogs are such charmers!

  8. says

    I do not blame you one bit, Ophelia. I have been feeling that way for awhile now. I’ve stopped bothering to comment or even try to engage sexist comments when it comes to the secular community because it’s not worth me losing sleep. It’s disenheartening to see so many of us being battered, one by one.

    I agree with smhll, do what will help yourself first. Self care makes it easier for you to care about other things once you’re feeling better.

    Ophelia, please edit that last sentence, if the arseholes read it ,they will take it as encouragement, and arrive in droves.

    Can I just say that this plea is unfair to Ophelia? It’s up to her what she publishes and really it’s like saying she’s leaving herself open for abuse.

  9. Beatrice says

    Ophelia, I’m sorry that the bastards are getting you down. You’ve been doing a great job and you’ve been making a difference, that’s why they are after you.

    Do whatever you feel is best for you.
    *hugs*

  10. says

    Cooper’s fine. I did do an update on him a week ago, after the stitches came out –

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2012/09/the-healing-of-cooper/

    Since then I’ve been upping his activity slowly but steadily and he hasn’t ripped his paw open. He’s completely his 1.5-year-old self and enjoying everything. Right now he’s flat-out asleep, because we played some flick-the-ball outside, which is not very intense as exercise but he gets so wildly excited that he’s exhausted when we come in.

  11. johnthedrunkard says

    Part of the warping influence of the interwebs. You can’t see or hear the quiet agreement and support of reasonable people over the clamor of wingnuts and creeps.

    How to launch a loud, obstreporous movement for reasonableness, as well as ‘Reason.’

  12. says

    .Ophelia, please edit that last sentence, if the arseholes read it ,they will take it as encouragement, and arrive in droves.

    I was going to say you must be doing something right to piss them off so much… But realise it is not necessarily much comfort – obviously was not to Jen.

    Some like Rebecca find the hate makes them stronger!

    And Catherine Devenys thoughts on the issue, I found through PZ, were great

    I never had any intention of procecuting any of the haters, trolls, maggots or creeps. I am not at all scared or INTIMIDATED BY WEAK, INSECURE MISOGYNISTS who call me an ugly, extremist, stupid, unintelligent, idiotic, thoughtless, self-righteous, self-centred, self-absorbed, nasty, confused, frustrated, bitter, twisted, humourless, un-funny, unreasonable, unrespectable, disrespectful, sarcastic, mocking, catty, hateful, boorish, blustering, bullying BITCH.

    Clearly they feel very threatened. And so they fucking should. We’re winning.

    But.. This is part of the haters creed – Ophelia and Jen etc. *should* be like these examples. Great if Rebecca and Catherine can be like that – but why should people who cannot take the shit be forced off the internet? That seems to be the logical conclusion of their ‘strong feminism’ ideology – seems to be total bollocks to me. Not sure what the solution is…

  13. says

    It’s true you know. For the first time, yesterday and today, I’m feeling something like what Jen felt – wanting to get out. Everything seems dirty and polluted, including me.

    Oh, Ophelia. You absolutely have to take care of yourself first. That said, your voice and presence are incredibly important to so many people. *Hugs*

  14. says

    Oh, Ophelia. You absolutely have to take care of yourself first. That said, your voice and presence are incredibly important to so many people. *Hugs*

    Yea, verily.

  15. says

    Nothing pisses me off more than seeing good people, the people who can and do make a positive difference in the world, people whose vision and passion inspires others to strive to make something better–nothing pisses me off more than seeing such people ground down by a craven, cowardly mob of dogged, stubborn, jeering twerps who prefer to make and keep their world a shithole, just because that’s the way it’s always been. Or because they figure their current, exalted position of straw boss in the dungheap is actually a pretty sweet deal, and never mind that it’s still, after all, a dungheap.

    Nolite te bastardes carborundorum, Ophelia. What else can I say.

  16. naturalcynic says

    Right now he’s flat-out asleep, because we played some flick-the-ball outside, which is not very intense as exercise but he gets so wildly excited that he’s exhausted when we come in.

    Obsessive Compulsive Retriever Disorder

  17. Nepenthe says

    Alas.

    I keep this video around for emergencies. I’d like you to have it.

    Warning: the music is very, uh, peppy. Might be better to turn sound off if that sort of thing is repellant.

  18. carlie says

    You are and have been a real inspiration and role model to me, Ophelia. My support is with you no matter what you need to do.

  19. No Light says

    he gets so wildly excited that he’s exhausted when we come in.

    Labrador excitement could solve the global energy crisis.

    I used to just gawp at my Labradog, wondering how the hell it’s possible to get so ecstatically thrilled by a Pringles tube, or any amount of standing or running (but not clean, clean is bad!) water. She used to do that laugh thing, where they sort of go “chuff chuff”, and alternate it with squeaky play-barks, and just whiz around gleefully, even at 14 in her final year with us.

    Look after yourself as you do with Coop. Make him your co-blogger, take some weight off. The BastardOSphere is perturbed and riled up because we’re shining light on them, exposing them. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and it terrifies them. That’s why they hide in their basements and “man caves”.

    You and your fellow bloggers are driving change via inspiration, I hope you feel very proud of that. You’re awesome, thank you.

  20. sinned34 says

    I’ve only been tangentially following the misogynist explosion that’s been occurring as a result of A+ over the past year, mainly because it’s infuriating to watch so many assholes crawl out of the woodwork and essentially defecate all over the skeptical movement in order to protect their precious privilege. Especially when I realize that I have at best facilitated or ignored actions like that in the past, and at worst participated in it.

    That’s why they hide in their basements and “man caves”.

    Hey, I resent that a little bit. I only hide in my “man cave” because UV light is bad for aging homebrewed beer! My wife makes me come out now and then to get some vitamin D, but I”m sure it’s mostly to make sure our dog gets enough exercise.

    Keep up the good work Ophelia. Some misogynists, like myself, can be reached and turned into “former assholes”.

  21. says

    Ah the chuff chuff thing. Cooper just cracks me up with the chuff chuff – he does it whenever. Like, for instance, when I go from the basement to the main floor of his house – he rushes to accompany me and carefully stays level with my knee and goes “chuff chuff” the whole way. His exhaustion from ball-flicking is entirely chuff chuff exhaustion. He’s done so much chuffing he’s just wiped.

  22. Mattir says

    Because of you, DaughterSpawn just finished reading On Cannibals, and is writing an essay comparing Montaigne’s ideas about argument (from On the Education of Children) to JayZ’s Don’t Feed the Trolls vlog. Because of you, we are way better informed about the circumstances of women elsewhere in the world.

    Thank you. Please do not feel dirty or polluted – there are many many people who treasure your work. Take a break and do something that feeds your strength.

  23. iknklast says

    Ophelia, I hope they don’t drive you out, too. But I understand you really have to do what you have to do, and as someone who has decided not to take up blogging because of the crap you’ve gone through, I would hardly be in any position to encourage you to stay.

    I’ve also been discouraged by how many sane, normal, reasonable people around me, all feminist by belief, simply fail to see feminism when it’s levelled at someone else. Especially subtle forms of feminism. They seem to believe it isn’t sexism unless someone overtly comes up to you and says something nasty in particular about you being a woman – in other words, shows their sexism so everyone can see it.

    I wish I could afford to give everyone I know a copy of Enlightened Sexism and encourage them to read it.

  24. says

    Mattir – oh, that’s lovely! (I’ve often thought how Montaigne would have loved blogs. He was a blogger avant la lettre, so to speak.) I’d love to read it if daughter-spawn is willing.

  25. No Light says

    Ah the chuff chuff thing. Cooper just cracks me up with the chuff chuff – he does it whenever. Like, for instance, when I go from the basement to the main floor of his house – he rushes to accompany me and carefully stays level with my knee and goes “chuff chuff” the whole way.

    Oh yeah, mine did that on stairs, plopping down one step at a time and laughing at her own brilliance in human-handling!

    The other thing that had me howling every time was that weird lab thing where they sort of “seal around” on the floor, and wiggle around on their backs going “raaar-rawrr-RA-RAWR”.

    It used to drive my dad up the wall, and the more he’d shout “Oi, dog, pack it in” the louder she’d get, wriggling, and rawring, and chuffing until she was worn out. Then she’d just lie on her back and pant herself to sleep. Nearly ten years since we lost her and it still makes me laugh.

    The main driving force in overcoming my health issues is a future with a lab in it. Maybe she can even be an assistance dog of some sorts, who knows.

    Take a rest and live like a Labrador. You have an amazing tutor there!

    Sinner34 – confession time, I have a woman-cave. Nice and dark, all my tech and stuff in there. I’m stuck downstairs until our house can be adapted, but I can’t wait to get back to mah cave. The slight light down here is causing me to freckle. The horror.

    Congratulations on being reformed. I know it’s a weird journey.

  26. Rodney Nelson says

    And, I’m not leaving. I’m feeling a bit tainted and smeared right now, but I’ll get over it.

    Hopefully the taint will go away. If any of us can be of help, please don’t hesitate to ask. I’m sure I speak for everyone here when I say we’ll be happy to help in any way possible.

  27. says

    @Ophelia,

    oolon…I’m not “weak.” (Neither is Jen.) I’d rather not frame it that way. It’s not weak v strong.

    Balls, sorry my bad! I meant that is how you are characterised by some of those criticising you and justifying it because they hate FtBs. I fully agree that is not the way to frame it – it is not weakness to be a normal human being and have moments when you are down and cannot cope. Particularly badly put by me since Jen said it was a long standing issue with depression that contributed to her not being able to cope. Stigma with mental illness being seen as a sign of ‘weakness’ is as daft as saying you are ‘weak’ if you contract a disease.

  28. Sastra says

    Please don’t feel tainted and smeared. That is, you of course have every right to feel tainted and smeared … but please know you are neither.

    If you need a break, take one before you’re broken. You can even take an “issue” break rather than a blog break. Write about the other things you would like to write about. You are loved; you are appreciated; you are mad, bad, and dangerous to know. Go rip into something.

    Butterflies & Wheels: float like a butterfly; crush like a wheel.

  29. says

    Sastra – heh – I love that.

    Hey iknklast – don’t let that put you off blogging or at least trying it if that’s what you want to do. I got away with it for years before getting this kind of crap.

    I took Cooper out to the meadows and forest (aka Discovery Park), and I feel less dirty. Much sweatier (dang it’s hot for September) but less dirty.

  30. says

    Some six years or so ago, I gave up on social issues writing and activism. I’d had enough. I was starting not to like people.

    After a break, I started my nature blog, a place where I would write about the non-controversial stuff, the critters and places that bring joy to my life. With a very few relapses, I’ve stayed clear of social issues.

    Because of the past year’s events, and the courage I’ve seen you, Greta, Jen, Rebecca, and a few others exhibit, I’ve been thinking it’s time to put on the gloves again. I don’t know exactly what I will do, maybe another book, maybe a new blog, certainly a more active stance in the meat world. I’m a slow thinker, but it will happen.

    Thank you for your work. And I’m glad you’re not leaving.

  31. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Ophelia, I think you know how I feel about you after these many years of commenting and correspondence. I hope so. Not only are you, as I’ve said before, in the very top tier of prose stylists, you’re brilliant. I have as much affection for you as is possible for someone I haven’t met in person.

    On ‘cowardice’—I wish people wouldn’t describe the haters that way. They’re not cowards. That’s the problem. They’re bold and brazen. They feel perfectly comfortable spewing their hate with few consequences that mean anything to them. The culture props them up. And no, saying “they’d never say this in real life” won’t save the coward model. First, some of them actually would. Second, the Internet is real life.

  32. says

    Aw thanks Josh.

    And I’m out of the mood. I get in moods, then I get out of them.

    I’m very cheered up by Romney on the 47%.

    (Actually I think the beginning of the death-spiral mood I got in yesterday was encountering a rich person of my acquaintance who gave a Romneyesque rant about the left-hate rich people-tax to death-all the entrepreneurs will leave…as if expecting me to agree. Why the fuck would I agree with that? Why would anyone expect me to? Why do rich people think everyone sympathizes with their plight?)

  33. Wowbagger, Antipodean Dervish says

    Pretty much what everyone else has said, Ophelia – you’re awesome, and we’ll understand if you need to stop to take a break from time to time.

  34. says

    On ‘cowardice’—I wish people wouldn’t describe the haters that way. They’re not cowards.

    Wish denied. People who join in the kind of beatdowns that lot have are, indeed, cowards.

    And in a number of ways. But two, chiefly:

    1) Those who refuse to examine themselves, consider their own prejudices, and choose instead simply to live in denial about their own preconceptions and unstated assumptions, yes, these are cowards.

    That’s a profound form of cowardice, too, that one. Being unwilling to look in the mirror, consider your own actions from without, realize you are part of the problem, and that you have a problem.

    That’s running from an unpleasant truth. So: cowardice.

    … and of course …

    2) The gang bang/cruel madness of crowds dynamics of much of it.

    And yes, you’re quite correct they’re spurred on by the culture. But that’s exactly the sense in which they’re cowards. An unwillingness to stand against it, an unwillingness to do the right thing, when it’s easier just to take the cheap back pats you’ll get from your mates and joining in the torrent of sick jeering, what the hell else do you call that?

    Me, I’m going with cowardice.

    I’m the one who said ‘coward’ up there, Josh, and I stand by it. Absofuckinglutely. They’re miserable, sniveling little cowards, in at least two of the deepest senses one can manage to be, the lot of them.

  35. says

    … oh, right. I also have to add:

    3) The unwillingness on the part of the (relatively) privileged simply to (swears again) try something new, to ask yourself: ‘what might I gain for all that I fear I might lose here by working with this wacky/scary new social order thing’, again, that’s cowardice. And cowardice strike three.

    (/And so with that, I also hereby declare them struck out.)

  36. says

    … and wait: one more. For the next batter:

    The redirecting/distracting gambit, where you distract yourself from thinking about your own issues, or those right on your own lawn, or from dealing with them, by turning deliberately outward to focus other people’s failings (see also ‘ZOMG brown people rioting!’ on one of the neighbouring threads), cowardice. And strike four.

    (/Tho’ technically kinda a subclass of (1), so I guess you could argue I’m overcounting. But then, I’m on a roll.)

  37. miraxpath says

    Dear Ophelia, you are far more important to a civil society than the bastards who are attempting to grind you and other female bloggers down. Give em hell! Tell me how I can help. I have no stomach for being a keyboard warrior but realise being part of the silent majority is not of much help and will try to step up.

    Would getting a co-blogger like PZ has done help take some of the strain off?

  38. katkinkate says

    Stay strong, Ophelia! Don’t let your voice be silenced! I’ll loan you my imaginary hit-dragon to flame the offensive for you. She’ll leave them as an imaginary pool of bubbling greasy ashes on the ground. Hey, you like cats right? My dragon knows of an imaginary saber-toothed griffin wanting a job. Her results are a bit more … bloody, but some people like that.

  39. says

    Blogs are like the first magazines–mostly put out by one person at first, then attracting compatible co-writers and working out a business model.

    For a lift of mood, wander over to Pharyngula and read Chris Clarke’s short article on Skeptics, MRAs, and Cats.

    You can try an experiment… Scientific American has an article about how we’re ruder if we can’t see a person’t eyes. You might change your avatar to a face image and see if that actually helps to reduce insults. I’m curious to know. I realized some years ago that part of the problem with driving is that we don’t look at each other, just big metal bugs on the roads, and at the same time we’re physically isolated so we aren’t constrained by feedback from the other person.

  40. mazeRunner says

    Hi Ophelia.

    I haven’t been around lately, but just wanted you to know how much the things that you and others here at FTB have been writing, have opened my eyes to things that were simply invisible to me due to my privilege.

    So just know that you’re loved, respected and appreciated, even though at times (like these) you may feel drained or exhausted by all the shit you get for speaking out.

    Take a break if you need to(or don’t if you don’t want to), but just know that you’ve done so greatly so far and you’ll continue to do so however you decide to deal with this.

  41. Martha says

    I’ll echo #53: what can the rest of us do to fight these guys? Sure, we can let you and the rest know that there are a lot of us out here behind you, but it’s time for more action than that. Atheism+ focus groups in a few major cities or other atheist centers? Maybe the best answer is to those who are so opposed to a community that values social justice is to make it work. Or (and/or) are there ways we can be more helpful to your on-line battles?

  42. Carmichael says

    Very infrequent commenter, but yours is one of my go to blogs. Glad to see you’re feeling better (@43). Romney to the rescue. Who’d have thought?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *