There has been another hangout. This one was hosted by Alex Gabriel, and had Debbie Goddard, Jason Thibeault, and Stephanie Zvan along with me. It was to discuss atheism+ and humanism and “divisiveness” and the fact that it’s not a coup or a usurpation.
To me, in fact, it’s mostly a label for a stance or point of view, a useful shorthand. I don’t think that’s terribly divisive.
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Pteryxx
August 25, 2012 at 6:54 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
FYI, the newly formed volunteer group A+Scribe is working on a transcript right now. May we have your permission to post it when finished?
Brian Engler
August 25, 2012 at 7:19 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
I agree. When I read Atheism Plus I think Atheism and more. Nothing really new, just a shorthand expression that rejection of gods is fine but doesn’t express a complete world view. Social justice issues (your choice which) can be addressed in very important ways from the non-theist standpoint, and, I’d argue, should be.
julian
August 25, 2012 at 7:47 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
I’m so glad Debbie Goddard was there. Pretty much raised every point I wanted to hear a response to.
Anonymous Atheist
August 25, 2012 at 9:14 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
You need to get one of those name ID bar things for your video feed like the other people had, Ophelia!
bjartefoshaug
August 26, 2012 at 2:24 am (UTC -7) Link to this comment
Re. “divisiveness” and “drumming people out of the movement”, I agree with Greta Christina and others that alienating the assholes who have turned the atheist/humanist/skeptical movements into such a toxic, stinking sewage is a very good thing indeed. I just want to add that there’s a difference between saying “You have to go” and saying “You can stay, but I’m leaving”. It’s not as if I have a duty to be part of their movement no matter how shitty their behavior. And this is where “Atheism plus” is more than just a “rebranding” of a pre-existing movement: We cannot force anyone to stop calling themselves “atheists” or “humanists” or “skeptics”, but nothing prevents us from deliberately adopting a new label that they wouldn’t want to adopt and organizing around that.
James Howde
August 26, 2012 at 3:43 am (UTC -7) Link to this comment
It is divisive, that’s kinda the point. Whether the division is going to be good or bad is yet to be seen.
I guess that the success of A+ will very much depend on getting a good start.
If enough people join up then choosing not to join will be seen, as Richard Carrier put it, as a vote for douchery. If initial take up is low then A+ will have an unfortunate whiff of self-satisfied clique about it.
Personally I’m a fundamentalist ‘atheists don’t believe in gods’ type but still hope the idea takes off – being called a douche not withstanding. At least I’d get to star in a secular version of “Left Behind”, only hopefully with more believable characters and a less stupid plot.
Ophelia Benson
August 26, 2012 at 2:20 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
Pteryxx, yes, sure. Thanks!
Pteryxx
August 29, 2012 at 6:35 am (UTC -7) Link to this comment
For everyone’s information, A+Scribe completed the transcript last night (our first one!) and it is now here:
https://a-plus-scribe.com/doku.php?id=transcriptions:aug_25_google_jason_thibeault
Happy reading!
Αθεΐα+ (⅝ x) 28 ημέρες μετά « On the way to Ithaca
September 6, 2012 at 1:42 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
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