Christian Humanism and Jay Bakker on Atheists Talk

We have an interesting guest on Atheists Talk radio this morning: Jay Bakker, a Christian, pastor, theologian, and the son of televangelists Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. I’m the host for this show, which means I’m not doing the active interviewing part (that’s all Travis Peterson, president of Minnesota Skeptics – Go Travis!), and as a result I’m typing this in the studio as Jay and Travis are speaking.

Travis and Jay spent the first two segments of the show talking about Jay’s experiences growing up as the son of the Bakkers and in the shadow of the PTL (Praise the Lord) Club TV show. Right now, Travis is asking Jay why, after all of his experiences and struggles, he’s still a Christian. Good question.

[Oops – I got distracted with listening to the interview – I’m a shitty live blogger, lol. You’ll have to catch the podcast to hear Jay’s answer]

So, show’s over – and just when it started to get extra interesting, darn it!

Jay and I started to debate about the definition of Humanism in the last two minutes of the show. We continued speaking off air for a while, but we didn’t reach a resolution.

Continue reading “Christian Humanism and Jay Bakker on Atheists Talk”

Christian Humanism and Jay Bakker on Atheists Talk
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Men Don’t Get Abortions

CN: Use of gendered pronouns. Words like men and women are blurry with respect to reproduction and pregnancy, but I am sticking with convention to address the claims and assumptions of this video.

It took me a few days to get around to watching this four-minute video because I knew that I didn’t have the even to deal with it. But tonight I’m feeling like I can do it. Let’s all do it – together!

We’re opening with a shot of a church and some somber but hopeful music. The videographer has spliced together the stories of three men, each one sitting in a church pew. They introduce themselves by name and then go on to share that they’re all Christians.

Continue reading “Men Don’t Get Abortions”

Men Don’t Get Abortions

Men Don't Get Abortions

CN: Use of gendered pronouns. Words like men and women are blurry with respect to reproduction and pregnancy, but I am sticking with convention to address the claims and assumptions of this video.

It took me a few days to get around to watching this four-minute video because I knew that I didn’t have the even to deal with it. But tonight I’m feeling like I can do it. Let’s all do it – together!

We’re opening with a shot of a church and some somber but hopeful music. The videographer has spliced together the stories of three men, each one sitting in a church pew. They introduce themselves by name and then go on to share that they’re all Christians.

Continue reading “Men Don't Get Abortions”

Men Don't Get Abortions

Give Me Jesus On the Line

This post has been deleted by the author because the author is a dumbass and fell prey to a satire piece. While the author is relieved that said piece was, in fact, satire, she’s getting pretty fucking tired of all these damned satire pieces that show up in her facebook and twitter feeds, that she wastes her time reading them, and then has to go back to see if they’re fiction or verified news (she’s looking at you CNN) and whether it’s worth getting her panties in a bundle over them.

Also, she’s depressed that her culture is so effed up that a piece of satire was believable, even though it was unbelievable.

But she does accept that it was her own damned fault for getting all bent out of shape and rageblogging about something before checking to see if it was real or not.

She apologies for any inconvenience.

Also, thanks to commenter Tsu Dho Nimh for letting her know that the offending piece was satire so that the author could remove her pointless rant before spreading this nonsense any further.

And now the author is pissed that Manhattan Transfer’s “Operator” is stuck in her head for no good reason.

Give Me Jesus On the Line

Through God-Colored Glasses

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible

This morning I took part in the Atheists Talk interview of Steve Wells, creator of the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible. I’ve been a big fan of the SAB website for several years, mostly because of the “categories” that he has put together to capture the different messages that are presented in the Bible. For instance, if I want a quick list of scientific and historical inaccuracies in the Bible, or passages that threaten, blame or harm women I can reference the SAB. I want to pick up a copy of the hardcover print edition because I find that format very appealing for perusing whole chapters. Okay…if I’m honest you can already do that with the website. Really I’d just like to see the pretty leather-bound hardcover version on my bookshelf next to my King James version. And if the Skeptic’s Annotated Quran and Book of Mormon are ever released in hardcover (Wells has wepages for both of these books as part of the Skeptic’s Annotated series) I can have the whole set!

During the interview I was keeping an eye on the Facebook and Twitter because sometimes we’ll get comments or questions for the show through social media. I have to be careful because every once in a while I’ll see something during the show that almost makes me lose my shit on the air. Today was one of those whiles. From Facebook:

two-third cup
Image transcription, a screen cap from a Tumblr:

How Awesome is Our God?!! He even cares about the littlest things in our lives… I needed 2/3 cup of milk to make my recipe tonight… And this was all the milk in the carton… Exactly 2/3 cup… EXACTLY! I mean, EXACTLY!! Wow! God is GOOD!

[picture of a pyrex measuring cup filled with approximately 2/3 cup of milk]

[Response by] eltigrechico:

this actually makes sense.

people go ‘why does God let bad things happen?’

its because while some poor bastards are being herded into a mass grave somewhere God is busy making sure Kathy in Dunghole, Wisconsin has exactly the right amount of milk for her recipe.

you gotta pick your battles

My first thought was: POE. I found this screencap on a couple of different websites, and I started to dig in to try to find the source, but then I went, Fuck it! I’ve got better things to do on a Sunday! I know people who think like the OP (and not just on the internet, y’all. Just last week one of my coworkers told me that she had prayed to God the night prior that we’d have enough buffer to run our study. And praise Jesus, we did!), so let’s just go forward under the assumption that this is real, k?

So yeah…the response is spot on. If you’re going to say that god is responsible for all things in our lives, then go ahead – praise him for the good. But he also gets to answer for the bad shit. This is philosophy 101 – the Problem of Evil right? But  to praise god for the coincidence of having the right amount of milk for a recipe? That ain’t exactly some loaves and fishes-grade work going on. God phoned this one in.

I’m having a bit of trouble getting over the type of worldview that lets one’s mind wander to god for every little thing. It’s just…silly. It’s not like this woman offered up a muttered “Thank you, God” under her breath and kept making dinner. Nope, she was so moved and awed by the wonder of her heavenly father’s influence that she was compelled to stop working on her recipe, take a picture of the miraculous event and draft a status update on Facebook so she could share this blessing that God has bestowed upon her and her family.

It’s not just silly. It’s blind and privileged and unexamined and obsessed.

This is one of the reasons I’m glad for god-free spaces. We’re not always right, but at least gods are off the table when we talk about things like coincidence and confirmation bias.

BTW – one of my favorite responses to this post over on FB was “That’s no 2/3 cup. You need read the volume at the meniscus. Where’s your god now?”

Through God-Colored Glasses

Mjolnir On Military Headstones

Huh. On the way home from work I learned that a) there are only certain symbols that are approved to be etched on the tombstones of soldiers killed in the line of duty (which applies, I would assume, only if the solider wants to be be buried with a government headstone), b) that Mjolnir is one of these approved “emblems of belief” and c) that there are symbols for atheists and humanists on the list.

Here’s the link from PRI’s The World if you want to listen to the story:

While I was doing some digging for this post, I learned that Americans United for Separation of Church and State played a part in gaining equal religious representation on government headstones, and participated in the fight to allow a Wiccan pentacle to be placed on the gravestone of Sgt. Patrick D. Stewart, a soldier who was killed in Afghanistan in 2005.

Mjolnir On Military Headstones

Godless and grieving about Boston

Hi! My name is Brianne, and I’m godless!

I have something that I want you to know, and then to deeply and fully understand and accept: “godless” doesn’t mean “evil”.

The idea is that to know God means to know love. And that must mean that if you don’t know God then you don’t know love. And “love” means “good” in this version of the story.  And if God = Love = Good, then Not God = Not Love = Not Good, i.e, Godless = Bad.

All of which is bullshit…and poor logic to boot. But these ideas about the relationship between god, love and goodness abound in our culture, and “godless” gets rolled out every time people do bad things, with the Boston Marathon bombing being no exception.

Yesterday Michael Sullivan, a Massachusetts Senate candidate, was reported as having described the bombing as a “horrific, cowardly and godless act”. After the news hit social media, his campaign quickly offered a clarification that the would-be Senator did NOT say “godless”, but rather “gutless”. A quick glance through the comments on that FB status update show that a lot of people support the originally-reported “godless as synonymous with evil” label.

You don’t have to believe in God to be a good person (hi!), and you can feel that you have a devout and healthy relationship with God and still do horrifying, cowardly things. Belief in a god or lack thereof are not strong predictors of one’s behaviors or attitudes. So let’s stop using “godless” as a negative term, k? 

Grieving and Interfaith Services – A note to those advocating for interfaith services in times of tragedy.

Atheists in Boston (and across the state, nation and world) are grieving, as are people of many different faiths. Most people would agree that after a tragedy of the type and scale of the Boston Marathon bombing, we need a place to gather, to share our grief across many shoulders, to heal. That place, for me, would not be an interfaith service. When it comes to grieving and honoring our dead, interfaith services leave me cold. Here’s why:

A major part of being an atheist is coming to grips with the idea that we are mortal creatures and that there is no afterlife. Because of this belief I feel that when people say things like, “they’re in heaven now, they’re with the angels, they’re with god” we trivialize our loss. As an atheist I believe that after death a person is very much gone, erased from existence, never to reappear. There is no do-over in heaven or through reincarnation. There is no silver lining to an unfair death from cancer, accident or intentional violence, or from a death of old age for that matter. Upon someone’s death, we have well and truly lost that person. Many atheists hold this life to be so very precious and strive to make it better because we believe there is no afterlife. This is the only chance we get to have a fulfilling life and a positive influence on the world around us.

When people are robbed of their lives through tragic circumstances, I don’t want to join in at your interfaith service if the congregation will be singing praises to god (who via his omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence could prevent all tragedies), and listen to sermons about god’s divine plan and afterlife and how victims are in a better place.  It causes me pain to realize that I am suffering what I perceive to be a permanent loss, while others have the confidence that the loss is merely temporary (this happens anyway, but when the person leading the service is authoritatively talking about heaven and such, it makes it worse. It draws a line – believers on the comforting afterlife side, me feeling like I’m on the cynical side refusing to be comforted) . We’re on different wavelengths, and we are grieving differently.

What we do have in common is our shared grief over the suffering and tragedy that has befallen us, and that we have lost friends and family and community members who are no longer with us in this life. This is the shared human experience to which we can all relate. And together we can mourn our losses, and remember and celebrate those lives. But I have a hard time doing that at a religion-based service that praises your god and thanks him for “calling them home”.

And I’m not saying don’t have interfaith services. If you insist on following a religion, I implore you to do your damnedest to reconcile the conflicting views and attitudes that you have with other religions, as they do with yours – for all of our peace! Join hands in prayer to your various gods and take comfort in the fact that you all believe that your loved ones live on somewhere else (and try to avoid banding together against those who don’t). But don’t make your interfaith service the only service. Don’t make your interfaith service a government-sanctioned service. And don’t make it the PRIMARY service, with a little secular vigil tossed out as a bone to those of us who don’t believe in gods or an afterlife. As a representative government, let’s make the primary, official memorial be a secular recognition of the loss in our community, so that all people can gather to share our grief and to unite against the darkness of our own eventual mortality.

Godless and grieving about Boston

Out In Droves – Arguing Same-Sex Marriage

House Bill H.R.1054 was up for a vote in the Civil Law Committee on Tuesday. On that day the committee took testimony from any and all citizens who wanted to share their views on the bill. Many presented their own views and some introduced themselves as representatives for a group.

I don’t often watch political committee discussions (but when I do…), but this is a topic of great interest. H.R.1054 is a bill that, if passed by the MN Congress, would give same-sex couples the right to get married in Minnesota! I also wanted to watch because August Berkshire was scheduled to speak on behalf of Minnesota Atheists. August live-Facebooked the event. Fellow MN Atheist members Greg Laden and Stephanie Zvan also blogged about the committee meeting.

Continue reading “Out In Droves – Arguing Same-Sex Marriage”

Out In Droves – Arguing Same-Sex Marriage

Churchy Signs – What’re you thinkin’ fer?

Louise has a couple more signs from our favorite church in Indianapolis, Indiana:

STFU2

Sign reads: “THE DESPISED OF EVERY AGE OF HISTORY HAVE BEEN CALLED CHRISTIANS”

HALP! Our ability to do whatever we want in the name of Jesus is under attack!

That’s what they’re talking about. Christians aren’t despised in the United States, and certainly not in Indianapolis! Christians are the majority and Christian privilege is the norm in many parts of this country. There are places in the world where Christians are systematically persecuted – historically and in these modern times – but here and now ain’t one of them. Signs like this are a fear-based rallying call to Christians who feel that their “way of life” is threatened when we hold the government accountable for observing the separation of church and state.

STFU1

Sign reads: “RATHER THAN REASONING GOD’S WORK, JUST TRY OBEYING IT”.

Critical thinking – who needs it? Certainly not God’s sons and daughters – just listen to your sky daddy! Okay…so sky daddy hasn’t actually said anything, but the priests and preachers are happy to interpret God’s words for you! And they never get it wrong or have personal biases or anything. Just listen to sky daddy’s representatives here on Earth and it will ALL. BE. OKAY.

Churchy Signs – What’re you thinkin’ fer?

Churchy Signs – What're you thinkin' fer?

Louise has a couple more signs from our favorite church in Indianapolis, Indiana:

STFU2

Sign reads: “THE DESPISED OF EVERY AGE OF HISTORY HAVE BEEN CALLED CHRISTIANS”

HALP! Our ability to do whatever we want in the name of Jesus is under attack!

That’s what they’re talking about. Christians aren’t despised in the United States, and certainly not in Indianapolis! Christians are the majority and Christian privilege is the norm in many parts of this country. There are places in the world where Christians are systematically persecuted – historically and in these modern times – but here and now ain’t one of them. Signs like this are a fear-based rallying call to Christians who feel that their “way of life” is threatened when we hold the government accountable for observing the separation of church and state.

STFU1

Sign reads: “RATHER THAN REASONING GOD’S WORK, JUST TRY OBEYING IT”.

Critical thinking – who needs it? Certainly not God’s sons and daughters – just listen to your sky daddy! Okay…so sky daddy hasn’t actually said anything, but the priests and preachers are happy to interpret God’s words for you! And they never get it wrong or have personal biases or anything. Just listen to sky daddy’s representatives here on Earth and it will ALL. BE. OKAY.

Churchy Signs – What're you thinkin' fer?