This week on the show we dealt with the perennial objective morality question, and tackled an issue about whether it makes sense to try to stop parents from indoctrinating their kids.
Ralf Buecheler’s documentary about “The Atheist Experience” that has been winning awards on the German film festival circuit is now available to watch for free online! Check it out.
(Please do not reproduce. The filmmakers are still shopping it around for US film festivals.)
We continue discussing Josh Duggar and the grotesqueness of using fundamentalists as live entertainment. (For earlier discussion on this blog, see “the problem with forgiveness as a core value.”)
Also: would nuclear war be the most moral action possible? And, a pen runs out of ink, proving God exists.
Recently the web has been buzzing with the news that the reality TV show “19 kids and counting” was canceled following a revelation that Josh Duggar was accused of molesting five underage girls. If you’re not familiar with the show, it is about a family who are members of the “Quiverfull” cult. Vyckie Garrison, who recently won the American Atheist award as atheist of the year, is a former member of this group, so your best bet for brushing up on their practices is to read her 2006 piece that was just republished in Raw Story.
In a nutshell, Quiverfull members don’t believe in birth control. They say that God will decide when you’ve had enough children. Wouldn’t you know it, it turns out that God’s schedule seems to be that women who are fertile and sexually active, and don’t use birth control, have a kid roughly every 18 months on average until menopause sets in. In other news, the Faithful have noticed that if you jump off a cliff, the Lord decides that 9.8 meters per second squared is the ideal rate of acceleration for you. If for some reason you stop accelerating and get injured as a result, you must not have prayed hard enough.
Anyway. Since this unfortunate incident occurred, lots of Duggar allies have rushed to remind people of what an important virtue it is for Christians to forgive and forget. For instance, Josh’s father in law Michael Seewald wrote:
The Seewald family stands with the Duggar family in solidarity. We stand with the unnamed victims of these incidents. Our thoughts and prayers are for you. I want to say to Josh, hang in there, the shame you feel is legitimate, yet Jesus took your shame as he was punished in your place.
Carrie Hurd, a pastor’s wife, scolded Vyckie Garrison on Facebook, saying:
When I was a kid, it was often called “playing doctor”, there were just as many girls initiating this kind of behavior as boys. Most of those never went on to perp horrible things. The Duggers, who I have never watched — am not a fan, did it properly and the 14 year old boy should probably be left alone to live a good life, just like girls who do the same thing. You troll the news for any little Christian misbehavior. Get a life! Go to Iraq and fight ISIS if you are seriously worried about women being treated well by men and society.
In summary, it seems like some people are paying mild lip service to the victims of the abuse, but mostly they are rushing to protect Josh Duggar from the bullies who are daring to publicly criticize him about it.
It’s kind of understandable because “forgiveness” is often portrayed as the central virtue of Christianity. How many times have you heard that “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven”? It’s kind of the whole point of Ray Comfort’s entire “Are you a good person?” schtick. No you are not a good person, says the evangelist, and you deserve to go to hell. But don’t worry, just say some words about accepting Christ into your heart, and the problem is solved. You don’t even have to do anything. Jesus died on the cross, you are loved unconditionally, the end.
Maybe this is just me, but I’ve always found this attitude to be kind of unsavory. Generally, secular systems of ethics hold that an action is wrong based on how much it harms somebody else. Morality is all about the impact that sentient beings have on each other with their actions. If you kill somebody, the consequence is that somebody who was alive is now dead. That person can’t experience life anymore, and it also makes people who cared about them sad. If you steal something, you are harming the former owner of the property. And if you molest young girls, the young girls are the injured party. Here’s a point which I think is pretty important: Only the victims of the crime really have the ability to decide whether you should be forgiven or not.
Proxy forgiveness really makes no sense to me. If someone steals your stuff, and someone else offers themselves up to receive punishment, justice is not served; it’s subverted. The thief may feel better about being let off the hook, but you are not helped in any way by this other person getting punished. In fact, the thief may actually wind up feeling safe to commit the same crime again, because the message he’s received is that he will just get forgiven again, and his punishment meted out on somebody else.
And sure, Christian morality is all based around the notion of where your eternal soul will wind up, and your earthly life is considered to be just a transient phase that you need to push through and pass the test, so worldly suffering allegedly doesn’t matter. But when Christians ask that well known question, “If there’s no God, why would you be good?” the intent is definitely to scare you about the earthly consequences. Can we punish a Hitler? Can we keep out kids safe from predators? These arguments have no teeth if bad actors like Josh Duggar can count on being readily forgiven and welcomed back into the fold by representatives of the faith, just for being part of the tribe.
When Christians speak of “sin,” they are of course talking about an offense against God; although the nature of the offense tends to be nothing more than “Because He said so.” Atheists, not believing in God, generally recognize that a crime has to have a victim, and the suffering of the victim tends to get completely swept under the rug in the zealousness to protect the guilty from consequences.
I’m working on a 15 minute segment of my talk for the Freethought Alliance Convention in Orange County in a couple of weeks. I’ve talked about this topic before, but I’ve never tried to sum it up so quickly, so I figured I’d help get the writing going by putting it in blog format. If you’re in Southern California and would like to attend, you may not want to read this as it will constitute a spoiler. Hope to see you there!
If someone demands extraordinary evidence for my nerd credentials, I should only have to mention that I was in my high school chess club. Got a couple of very minor trophies. My dad taught me to play at a very young age, and I taught my son to play in turn. I’ve also taught several other people to play, including my childhood friend Gil, who later went on to coach his local middle school chess team.
When we were kids, Gil had this annoying habit of always trying for a Scholar’s Mate. For anyone who’s unfamiliar with this tactic, a Scholar’s Mate looks like this:
I’ll be speaking on behalf of atheism this Thursday evening. If you’re in Austin, feel free to come by. If not, I’m told it will be live streamed and will try to put up the link when I can.
April 16, 6:30PM, Welch Hall Room 2.122
Tiff’s treats and samosas will be served as refreshment.
Update: Here’s the video.
The video starts while people are still arriving. To skip the small talk, an invocation begins at about 6:00, and the actual talk starts at 9:40.
…Since you obviously don’t understand it.
I am writing this in response to a request from Miri Mogilevsky of the Brute Reason blog here on FTB. As has been widely reported, Duck Dynasty’s Phil Robertson went off on a rant in which he fantasized about a male atheist (men presumably being the only people Robertson’s audience can identify with) being tied up and forced to watch strangers rape his wife and daughters. “And they can look at him and say, ‘Isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged? Isn’t it great that there’s nothing wrong with this? There’s no right or wrong, now is it dude?'”