Sunday’s Caller and Public Response: Confirmation is not a Rebuttal

1. People saying that the caller was wrong to call the girl “evil,” then saying that in truth we’re all born sinful (i.e., evil) and need salvation (from our evil nature)—and then claiming that if we’d only let the caller talk longer, he’d have explained that for us.Explained what, exactly? That the girl is evil? How is the Original Sin explanation anything but a reinforcement of what Shane said? Explaining why you say she’s evil doesn’t change the fact you are calling her evil. You haven’t changed the claim, you’ve just added more words to it and asked me to agree you’ve said something entirely different, when you’ve only restated it.
2. People saying that it’s wrong to say god allows child rape. God doesn’t allow child rape, they say, he just doesn’t want to impede our free will.Again, you’ve simply added more words; but in summary, you’re still agreeing that god knows the child is being raped, could stop it, but allows it. You’re simply saying why you think a god that allows child rape is good. And your explanation—that he doesn’t want to inhibit the actions of child rapists—as your justification for why god should be considered good, is unfathomable to anyone but someone indoctrinated into your religion–or perhaps a child rapist, who is likely right on board with wanting to not be inhibited.
3. I’ve seen many Christians (and a few atheists) claiming that the caller has to be a Poe, that we set it up or were duped, and they know this because no Christian would say what this guy said. If you think that’s a good position, please Google “Why do we need salvation?,” to see an endless list of sites representing churches and individuals explaining:(a) We are all born into sin (evil). (b) The just result of that condition is that you should die. (c) Believing in Jesus won’t make you deserve anything better, but will result in you getting something better regardless.This is by no means a rare Christian doctrine.
4. Today I got a real live Calvinist on a thread, who wanted to explain to me that he doesn’t believe god allows child rape, he believes god causes it. Keep in mind, this god is morally upright. He went on to be sure I knew that, while the child may not have transgressed yet and become sinful, she’s born with a sinful nature, and will get to it later if she doesn’t die young. So, in essence, if not in deed, she is equivalent to the child rapist in nature. He also went on to clarify that any transgression against god is deserving of the same hell fire. That is, god has no capacity to make moral evaluations—having sex outside marriage is just as evil as mass murder; god can’t, or doesn’t, apparently, discern that subtle nuance. (Ironically some people “rebut” this by saying that god is so good he can’t abide evil, and so any blemish can’t exist in his presence. In addition to undermining god’s omnipotence, this, again, just restates what has been said already. It’s not a rebuttal, it’s confirmation.) This person also noted that “sin” (or evil) is simply defined as not doing what god wants you to do—again, no judgment involved, just obedience. So, you can’t trust your moral inclinations, so why not just obey this book/god/pastor, and not worry about whether you’re doing horrible things or wonderful things? Lastly, he put a cherry on top by saying that if the rapist accepts Jesus, he will spend eternity in the great reward, and not suffer any punishment at all for his life of child rape. This is the god he loves and worships and just thinks is all that and a bag of chips. In his own words: @Tracie: God doesn’t “allow” child rape. He ordains it, just as He does everything else. Make no mistake; the rapist will be cast into Hell for eternity if God doesn’t cause him to repent. But that is the fate of ALL unrepentant sinners. We as humans think, “Well, I may be a sinner, but at least I don’t rape children.” This is measuring by human standards, not God’s. ALL sin, if not repented of, has the same price: eternity in Hell.Original sin is an invention of the Catholic church to justify infant baptism. Yes, we are born with a sinful nature. But the Bible defines sin as a “transgression of God’s law.” Since infants have no concept of right or wrong, they are called “innocents” in the Bible.Calvin didn’t invent the idea of man being inherently depraved; God did. Remember, we are not dealing with man’s ideas of “good”, but God’s.

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