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Oct 01 2012

Atheist asks for ideas for dealing with religious people who hate god

We received an interesting question to the TV list, and one I don’t know if I’ve actually heard before. The core of the matter boils down to this:

“My point is that it was through reason that I ultimately rejected the faith that I was brought up in. I wish I could say that this was the case for all non-theists but, sadly, that just isn’t so. I think it is a tragedy when a person of faith loses their faith because of any personal crisis or hardship that they have suffered. I have a cousin who claims to have lost her faith after a car accident and a friend (of a friend) who lost her faith after both parents committed suicide. My question is this: What is the best way to welcome people like that into the fold? Those who have lost their faith may not be atheists, but is there any ‘saving’ them for either side? They are angry at God, I am not. What is a reasonable approach to getting someone to: 1) come to terms with tragedy through reason and 2) either get over their beef with God or consider a non-theistic ethos that isn’t rooted in tragedy?“

I’ve never talked to someone directly who still believed in god, but hated god, although I’ve certainly heard of this phenomena. If you are reading this article and have dealt with this issue, or have constructive ideas about how to approach someone in this situation, please feel free to help this person out. I will direct him to this blog so he can monitor responses if he’s interested in feedback.

Thanks all!

31 comments

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  1. 1
    Timid Atheist

    I hated god for many years before I realized that I’d lost my faith and didn’t actually believe there was a god. It helped to realize that the reason for my hate was a result of church doctrine and not because of some unseen entity telling me I’m going to hell for premarital sex. It took a very long time to come to that conclusion, however, about 10 or so. I hated religion and anything to do with it. And if there was anything I found upsetting or wrong in the news or in person I’d mentally curse god for being such a bastard as to allow those things to happen.

    It wasn’t until I started actually reading up on atheism and found out that a few well known people that I like are atheists that I came around to the idea that it makes more sense, though is a bit scary to let go of long held beliefs, that the tragedies of the world aren’t ignored or planned by a higher power, they just happen.

    The idea that there’s a god but that he lets tragic things happen is where a lot of these people who still have faith but hate god are coming from. I suppose the best way to help them is to guide them toward the idea that there isn’t a god out there deciding who should go and stay; that the result of the tragedies they’ve endured isn’t because of a capricious god. It may not be more comforting that their tragedies were the result of chance, but it might be easier to handle in the long run.

    Everyone reacts differently, so this is just my take on it based on my own experience. YMMV.

    1. 1.1
      heicart

      Wow. Thanks for responding. You know, it didn’t even occur to me to think that someone who used to hate god might be reading this and reply. But, frankly, that’s excellent! Thank you.

  2. 2
    Tim H.

    I’d probably start with “Wouldn’t it be good news if there was no God and never had been?”

  3. 3
    Jubal DiGriz

    I had an acquaintance whom I knew, oddly enough, through a church I used to frequent (Call her Belle). Very sweet woman normally. She sought me out because another member of the church, a young mother, had been stricken with cancer and had decided to forgoe the only marginally helpful chemo treatments so that she could be healthy enough to spend the rest of her time with her daughter. Very sad.

    So Belle was watching this happen and as far as I can tell something snapped and she became furious and felt betrayed by God. She came to me because she wasn’t sure what she was supposed to do with her life… she felt angry all the time and figured as an atheist I would know how to handle that.

    Well, I’ve never been angry at God because I’ve never believed in a God. Belle didn’t seem to quite be able to process that for a time. I thought back to all those “Dear Abby” columns I’ve read and decided the most I could do was just be there. I gave Belle my phone number and said she could call me anytime.

    I didn’t from her for several months, until I bumped into her at a grocery store. She seemed much more collected, and when I asked how she was doing, she laughed and said, “Oh, I was just going through a phase. One day I asked myself who I was angry with, and I couldn’t think of an answer. So I guess I’m an atheist now!”. But she did say how my reaction, that I couldn’t be angry at a God I didn’t believe in, really stuck with her.

    So, essentially, in my one experience with this, it seems like Belle was able to sort stuff out on her own and just needed the space. I’ve never heard of an instance when someone was “reasoned” out of grief. Just being a sympathetic ear.

    And I had decided that if Belle ended up “getting right again with God” or whatever and wanted support with that, I’d help her then too. I’d rather someone be a well-adjusted theist then an angry, bitter atheist. I wouldn’t lie to her of course, but I wouldn’t try to argue her out of whatever coping mechanism she came up with.

  4. 4
    marella

    I don’t agree that losing your faith due to personal misfortune is a tragedy except in the sense that I find it a little sad that the agonising deaths of millions of children all around the world don’t put a dent in this person’s faith, but a car accident or a personal tragedy suddenly makes them realise that god is not what he’s been cracked up to be.

    I think the question to ask is, what sort of a god has she been believing in all these years, and then point out that she has two options, to continue to believe in a god, but not the all caring one she thought existed, or to realise that not only has she been misled about who god but that he exists at all. Once you realise you’ve been lied to it’s a short hop to understanding that none of it is true.

    1. 4.1
      troopdawg

      I really like your point. This is really good for those who experience tragedy and then forsake the religion, yet still believe a god exists. If proposed in a positive manner would likely turn some gears.

  5. 5
    Snezzer

    Oh my, I feel this one. I ‘knew’ God was real, I prayed and begged him for help, and my life continued to disintegrate. I hated and was beyond hurt by God, leading to me becoming ->Pagan ->’Spiritual’->confused->Atheist. Wish I would have just skipped to the last step, but I didn’t even know it existed. You have it exactly right. When people try to use their beliefs to make you feel better, they make it worse. Grief needs to platitudes or cliches. It needs loving friends who let you pour out your anger and grief, until you are at a place where you are once again clear headed and begin to apply reason to emotions. Be a shoulder, not a brain.

    1. 5.1
      vethtiche

      Unfortunately, this is exactly what religion has been all the while – the shoulder, not the brain. There may be some people who feel angry at god for taking away a loved one, but I’ve also seen entire families turn to Christ because a loved one is dying or died from cancer.

      But you’re right therefore that what we can do is to give a person time and support to sort out his/her feelings. Your own views on atheism would not go unmissed if put across subtly, ie. don’t lay it on thick….

  6. 6
    John Kruger

    The “angry with god” idea and atheists does not come from a vacuum. I found myself very angry with religion once I was convinced it was false, mostly because I felt betrayed by those who should have known better. This isn’t really being angry at god, but it is pretty close. I eventually stopped being a disillusioned and bitter teenager over this, but it took time to find purpose and fulfillment again.

    I think many people really need the intense and un-ignorable shock to their world in order to even start questioning religious beliefs. Bad things do happen to people god is supposed to be looking out for. It is easy no to think about the unfair deaths of people you don’t know, they might well have “had it coming” for all you know. When someone you are close to is unfairly saddled with a horribly undeserved situation, you need to deal with it all the time and the unfairness of it is unavoidable.

    Consoling those who are angry or upset is not all that dependent on a god belief. Offer assistance and conversation but do not inflict it if refused. Consider how the person is feeling and take pains not to trample on their feelings or force your way in without invitation. Mostly, though, just be honest. No doubt you likely agree the situation is unfair. Tell them what you think in an honest yet respectful way, as an equal. A show of empathy and attempts and understanding are almost always well received.

    I have found anger has a lot to do with expectation. I am not angry when good people are hit with terrible situations because I do not expect a god to help them out. Most anger fades when the expectations are changed, and most flare ups happen when you are forced to deal with situations not mentally prepared for. Changing a belief in gods can certainly be a path out of the anger described in this post.

  7. 7
    J

    My wife lost her faith in such a manner. I won’t get into the details but it was an evolution of thought. It only started with her being angry at god. It grew to her not believing that a god would let such terrible things happen to her. She grew up in a traditional Portuguese family, so she heard a lot about “It’s in gods plan” or “God works in mysterious ways”. She decided that either god was a total dick, or that he didn’t exist. That elucidation allowed her to see more clearly on the topic and then began to see how none of it really made sense.

    The tragedy was only the beginning, but in the end it opened her eyes to the august nature of reality

    Peace

    J

  8. 8
    strange gods before me ॐ

    Be a good friend and listener. Be there for them when you can. Let them talk. That’s the most important bit.

    If at some point after you have let them talk about it, if they are interested in hearing what you have to say (just ask them if you can talk about what you believe, or if this isn’t a good time for them), then it can be worthwhile to talk about what you find gives life meaning: probably helping people in some way, and I don’t just mean helping people to deconvert.

    Someone having a crisis of faith may want to talk about meaning. In particular they may be stuck on the notion that if nothing lasts forever, then there is no meaning. Hopefully they won’t have this issue, but some people do. So here I might as well quote something Nick Gotts said to Pete Rooke over on Pharyngula:

    [Pete:] why are you out trying to counter my faith? to what end? because it really doesn’t mean anything if you are right.

    [Nick:] That really is remarkably silly. Do you refuse to enjoy a sunset or a blossoming tree because it won’t last for ever? Refuse to take painkillers because the pain isn’t eternal?

    Of course you probably don’t want to call your friend’s feelings silly at this time! But that’s the general line of discussion for those who are stuck on eternity — normally we intuitively recognize that things which are transient still matter, whether for good or ill. Pain and joy are real and important, and whatever happens in the future, nothing will ever change history; all those pains and joys were real and mattered; every moment is as real as any other.

  9. 9
    FromHereOn

    Being “angry” with god still rewards a irrational belief system. I have a friend who tried to find refuge in atheism as a frustration outlet, and I wasn’t surprised to find out that after a few years, he feels he is a Christian again. In fact, my friend now refers to his past worldview as a product of his irrational anger, and dismisses all of his former rationality.

    Making any decision that affects one’s outlook on life based on emotion has a horribly shaky foundation, and I’d bet that venomfangx and Kirk Cameron (assuming they told the truth that they actually considered themselves atheists in the past) were likely trying to rebel against a god that they still believe existed and hada supernatural authority despite their hollow claim.

    Faith and religion pray directly on emotional responses like fear and anger. A solid atheist with a rational worldview needs a foundation of analysis and reason to base his or her belief systems on. Emotional decisions only breed opportunities for trouble, ignorance and regret in MANY cases throughout life regardless of the outcome being one that we respect or not.

    Atheism combined with secular humanism or empirical rationalism need not stoop to the level that religion and faith exist on. Would you encourage your friend who just ended a serious relationship badly to go and copulate with as many strangers as possible until they feel better? Not if you’re a good friend. Be a good friend, let the bitterness and anger subside, and THEN help them understand rationality so it STICKS… Otherwise people are pushed headlong into a conclusion and have to backtrack to justify it when they’re level-headed. Sound familiar?!

    -Phil Fox

  10. 10
    1312ln

    If they’re open to reading a book on the subject I would suggest Bart Ehrman’s “God’s Problem.” I thought it was very insightful and put all of the theodicy arguments in perspective. It would protect them from religious manipulation when others try to convert them because they’ll see the loopholes in advance, and it wraps up with a reasonable, stoic solution to why tragedies happen.

  11. 11
    Yellow Thursday

    I went through a time when I was angry with God – a few months, maybe a year. When we found out my dad had lymphoma, I prayed for him every day. I prayed for healing, for a miracle, for anything. Even when my dad fell into a coma, I still prayed, though a certain desperation was added to the prayers. I begged and pleaded with God. I promised anything, if only my father could live.

    But when my dad died my prayers changed. I prayed for answers. I asked how God could take a good man, a devout Catholic, away from his family, who loved and needed him. I begged and pleaded for a sign, something to renew my faith.

    No sign appeared, and I decided that God was not what I had been raised to believe he was. I still had a god belief, but I let go of the omnis at that point. I started searching for god, and as each of my beliefs about god fell away, I started calling myself agnostic, then atheist. (As an aside: while I was searching for god, I decided that god was not female, since a female god would certainly have designed us without menstruation.)

    The thing that helped me most during my search for god, moving from devout believer through the steps towards atheism, was a desire to know the truth. My father’s death was merely the catalyst that started me searching.

  12. 12
    thebuachaill

    I’m not sure if this is entirely relevant, but perhaps it’s a useful perspective.
    I encountered my first true “Atheist Experience” when a couple of dear friends of mine were facing a potentially awful situation related to the birth of their first child. These are two really good people who you’d just know would make wonderful parents, and they had been trying to have a child for such a long time. To cut a long story short, when I heard it was bad news I felt absolutely devastated for them. I knew the heartbreak it would bring them, and these were the last people in the world who deserved something bad to happen to them.
    So as you do, I started down the road of ‘why would this happen to such good people’, ‘they didn’t deserve this’, etc. My “atheist experience” was the almost immediate realization that such ‘why’ and ‘deserve’ questions really made no sense. And just as I was starting to slide down a slope of overwhelming sadness, anger, depression, etc, I quickly pulled back to the reality of the situation and focused on the only real question that should be asked in such a situation… what can I do to help?

    In times of tragedy, I think it’s the concept of God that keeps the “Why Me” type questions afloat. Getting that Monkey off your back doesn’t necessarily ease the immediate pain, but it may help to keep your feet on the ground and away from the hatred and despair that comes with the idea that someone up there should have been looking out for you.

  13. 13
    Ryan.Crocoduck

    If a “Creator God” exists, we should all be angry with it for consciously choosing to create us with the ability to suffer. Surely it could have decided differently. The common response is (Bruce Almighty theology) that God gave us choices because it wants us to love it and love requires choice. But that dichotomy also must have been a conscious decision, so we’re left with a God that knowingly chose to create a world that included suffering, hate, rape, torture, etc… Anger is the only rational response. It is a healthy response.

    Fortunately, we have no evidence that a “Creator God” exists. All evidence and reason points to the fact that suffering and such things emerge from human interaction and our ability to contemplate our own situation. But anger is still a valid response to suffering.

    I see anger as a sort of generator, it generates a lot of motivation and power. This, in and of itself, is neither good nor bad; it’s where we send that power and what we do with it that matters. Being angry at God is generating a lot of power, but it’s power that can’t be directed at something actionable. You can’t do anything with that anger, and I suspect that the power it generates seeps out in harmful ways in other areas of life as a result. But the atheist can look at a world full of suffering, get angry, and then DO something with that anger because it isn’t directed at an intangible, unquestionable being. It’s directed at the very real, very changeable sources of suffering in this world, right here in front of us.

    So by all means, be angry! But channel that anger into reducing suffering in the world. Write a blog. Start an organization to raise awareness about seatbelts, drunk driving, or whatever issue is causing you grief. Hold a fundraiser for cancer research or wigs for chemo patients. There are any number of ways to expend that energy into positive, helpful activities that will actually benefit people in the here and now. And as a result, that anger won’t be such a constant rolling boil under your skin.

  14. 14
    Tax

    From a very young age I had some questions about Christianity that people didn’t like. I didn’t think that the church’s doctrine was wrong, I just wanted it explained in a more in depth manner. People got the impression that I didn’t believe so I got a lot of lectures on hell and how bad it would be.

    Growing up everyone I ever knew believed in God. I never questioned that God was a real thing, but as I grew older the idea of hell seemed even more scary. The idea that I might be punished forever for my doubts kept me up at night. There were years where I thought about it every night before I went to bed, and at no time were thoughts of hell far from my mind.

    I believed in God, but viewed him as a tyrant. I tried to make all sorts of justifications for how his actions might be justified, but the more I saw of other people and the more I experienced in life, the more I realized a lot of people come to different conclusions for what they think about things based on their experiences. I also really didn’t like the idea that people of other religions went to hell. After all, they had parents telling them what to believe, how is it their fault if they came to the wrong conclusions?

    Upon expressing that idea to fellow believers I was criticized greatly. They thought I didn’t believe, and the idea that God might be okay with people of other religions was extremely offensive.

    I could never understand the suffering, the fact that so many people in this world seemed to suffer for what I viewed as no fault of their own, and I hated the idea that after a life of suffering some people might go to hell because they believed the wrong thing. I believed in God, but I hated him. He was a tyrant waiting to give the entire world it’s just desserts for the crime of not behaving exactly the way he would like.

    After having this view for about two years, while thoughts of hell plagued me every day, I decided to Wikipedia hell. I was relieved to see that there were some good arguments that suggested that hell wasn’t real, or that it at least wasn’t permanent. I loved this idea, it was new to me. Everyone I knew insisted hell was real, terrible, and permanent.

    I youtubed “debates about hell” because I started thinking seriously about the subject. I saw one of Jeff Dee’s rants, and it was beautiful. I had never seen someone seriously address the subject of hell from a different viewpoint, and was completely unaware that there were people who actually did not believe there was a God and had actual reasons why they held that viewpoint. I started watching archived episodes of the show and studying the arguments that were being made, and sometime after that I stopped believing in God.

  15. 15
    tmscott

    I hope that this is not too far off topic but, I recently had a relevant experience with a Jewish friend. At his annual New Year’s Eve party, I raised a glass of scotch in honor of the recently deceased Christopher Hitchens. His reply was something on the order of,
    “Oh yeah, the guy who hated God.”
    I was so taken aback that I couldn’t think of something to say that wouldn’t be appropriate at the party, so I let it drop.

    The episode made me realize that there are some folks that cannot even imagine the concept of no god. To them, atheism is not without God, but rejection or anger towards God, which we must somehow acknowledge to exist. The cognitive dissonance blew me away.

  16. 16
    Christopherm

    Pissed off and angry at God was my first step toward atheism and eventually anti-theism. I think it’s a more common occurrence than one might suspect,and I believe that just left to it’s own devices, it will eventually lead to atheism, or at the very least agnosticism.

    I remember many times cursing God, daring Him to do something about it. Anything to prove that, being an asshole aside, he was indeed “up there”

    I never felt the need to bring it up with anyone, but after a period of being angry with God and realizing it was futile and a waste of time and energy, I switched my hatred to the church and Christianity.

    That is the point at which the internet, and atheist sites like this one were key in giving me the information and tools necessary to channel that anger and turn it into something productive.

    So I guess from my point of view, lest we become like religion, swooping in and taking advantage of people in emotionally vulnerable states for our own agenda.
    It’s best to just be supportive and let the anger take it’s natural course.

  17. 17
    SmartLX

    My wife has what you might call the opposite problem: she thinks God hates her. She blames herself for various misfortunes over which neither one of us has any control, because she thinks God is punishing her for her privately expressed (and usually justified) negative opinions of others. Frankly, if it were the other way around and she hated God, it would be a lot easier to deal with, to comfort her and possibly to help relieve her of the faith which troubles her so.

    1. 17.1
      Sonorus

      That makes me sad. It also makes me angry, not at your wife, but at whoever laid that guilt trip on her. (And I’m pretty sure plenty of people have laid that “reap what you sow” bs on her.) Sadly, the people who carry that kind of crap around with them are good people who can’t process that sometimes bad things happen to you through no fault of your own. Meanwhile there are people who are the worst examples of our species with no guilt whatsoever for doing truly horrible things.

  18. 18
    John

    I’ll say this again as I said in a few other places, you only need one reason to not believe in the gods people describe to you….guess what it is? it’s not the evil in the world, it’s not the contradictions in the religious texts, it’s not the hypocrites of the many believers, it’s the idea people subscribe super magical qualities to these gods like the omni-all type traits…….I’ll say it again, supernatural is just magic dressed up to be something different…both are the same, and I only seen a few call believing in god no different then believing in magic, AronRa is one of the few who say it as it should be said. they say the universe can’t come from nothing or can’t have always existed, but they then at the same time say an all-powerful prefect all knowing perfectly just holy eternal being always existed and basically made it all out of nothing using his super magic powers…..that explains much…yeah…..in least they are saying these gods or a god used per-existing materials and used them in a lab or something and created it all….that would destroy most gods. it must of sucked to be a god at one point since there existed nothing at one time besides him…..so was god floating around in the void……is that still something…….what is nothingness?

    God the way he or she or it is described by most of everyone is a direct opposition to science…..do not say otherwise, because this god could throw are science out the window and make Spongebob real by saying it….this is the heart of what highly intelligent people believe in the end. the earth does not need to be a certain distance with an all-powerful god, or life has to be certain way to exist, a mighty god could make the earth a billion light years away from a star and we could still exist….science deals with learning how things work and so on, and the religions and magical gods deal with stuff that makes no god forsaking sense….I’m vastly insulting that I live in a world filled with this crap and I’m the odd one to them, and…..AKA……people can’t hate beings that they do not believe exist……common Christian tactics and any EX-christian knows all the shity tactics they use.

    Man, I Give Matt so much credit, how the hell does he do it? he debates and talks with these people for years on and my head would of exploded years ago since he has been doing it for years thus far, and since Christopher Hitchens is no longer alive, Matt can be one of the 4 horse men now, but I have a high respect for him since he is not static in his responses, meaning, he can get tough when needed and take it easy when needed as well……a balanced speaker indeed, I think that is why so many respect him as well.

    Take Care!

  19. 19
    warrene

    I think a lot of the time the whole ‘Atheists hate God’ mantra is misapplied. Most Atheists I know don’t hate god, have no feeling on god at all. They hate what people do in the name of god and people using god as a shield to not be responsible for their own actions. Christians usually just scream the ‘You hate God!’ and ignore what you are actually saying.

    I hate that people claim total faith in a concept they have never critically analyzed in any way. I can not understand how someone can base most important life decisions on an unexamined philosophy and it drives me crazy to think of mother doing this.

  20. 20
    Sonorus

    It sounds like this person needs a support group to deal with her anger and frustrations without being judges for being angry and frustrated. She can’t talk to most of her religious friends because they will shame her for feeling the way she does. So if she can’t find a group and you can be a sympathetic listener, just sit and listen and be sympathetic. Most people just need to hear themselves saying what they feel out loud. Feelings, left unexpressed, just fester and can become negative and depressing. She doesn’t need to be led to any specific conclusion. She’s perfectly capable of doing that on her own. She just needs a sounding board. Most theists are going to listen and then try to steer her back to whatever position they want her to have. Atheists should avoid being the mirror opposite of theists. If she works through her emotions and is still a theist at the end, so be it. She’s an adult and has a right to make her own decisions and come to her own conclusions about what for her is an important part of how she sees the world around her. Listen without prejudice and judgment. There are far too few opportunities to express feelings in a healthy way in our culture. the result is the inappropriate acting out we see all the time. Yes, it’s okay to be angry at god. I’m not angry at god because I don’t believe any gods exist. I am angry at some religious people because of what they do and say, just as I am often angry at politicians and other public figures for what they do and say. I’m not an atheist because I’m angry at god. I spent far too long trying to twist the real world to try to answer unanswerable questions of why an omnipotent and loving god would allow so much of what goes on in the world to continue. Once I realized that no such god would allow 11 year old girls in Darfur to be raped and tortured (just one of countless examples) the world became much simpler. I realized no god was going to intervene and I was going to have to do what I could to make such things stop. It forced me to take responsibility for myself and to help others when I could because there was no supernatural intervention on the way. There’s no anger in that. It’s just a sobering realization. I’m actually happier knowing that I am solely responsible for what happens to me rather than searching the “tea leaves” for signs of why good and bad things are happening.

  21. 21
    Vicki, duly vaccinated tool of the feminist conspiracy

    I don’t know whether this would work, but it might be worth suggesting that the Universe is not out to get her, and that while she has been through a painful experience, it’s not only not her fault, it doesn’t mean that bad things will keep happening.

    1. 21.1
      Hidden Heart

      This strikes me as really important. I was rummaging for the right words and not finding them, but…this.

      When you think of the world in terms of rewards and punishments, and what you’re getting absolutely can’t be rewards, and you can’t figure out what might be drawing down this kind of punishment, then every bit of unpleasantness gets that much worse with the fear of more to come. As with real-life abusive relationships, there can’t be a prospect of relief.

      When that’s what you’re facing, the message that there is nobody tormenting you, there’s only chance and a complicated universe going along, can really be a great blessing. As someone said above, when it’s someone you care about suffering, this frees you to focus on “What can I do to help?” When it’s you suffering, it frees you to focus on the relief you need from the pain and suffering you have.

  22. 22
    John

    Sam Harris……that is all.

  23. 23
    nude0007

    I do not hate god, however, i hate religion. I suffered greatly because my parents and everyone I knew believed this crap and I was deathly afraid to even look at a girl because it was continually beat into me it was a sin. I was severely warped by this and suffered from depression. all the guilt I had for having sexual desire nearly drove me mad. Hell, I was 8 or 10! So I grew up feeling I was inferior, flawed, doing everything wrong and having NO confidence to do or be anything. Like many, knowledge saved me. I watched Kung Fu, read Sci-Fi, and explored other myths. I began to suspect that there was more to the story, that other explanations were possible, and that, coupled with all the questions I had when reading the bible, eventually led me to conclude that it couldn’t be real. It still took me a very long time to shake the guilt completely, but I cannot forgive religion for what it did to me, and has to be doing to other kids. Of course, there is much more to the story, but hating god is a waste of time. Place the blame where it belongs.

    1. 23.1
      John

      I understand your experience all to well…..this is why I think some people are to easy and soft on Christianity and Islamic religions….the worse of the worse, followed by the others all the way down to the less worse ones…..but I have yet to find one that is true.

      The thing is some people mistake you leaving the faith for god not helping you or something, but to me it’s that these gods do not explain anything…..it simplifies everything down to magic wizard can make shit happen. I doubt the average person even knows how fire works…..that is speculation on my part. with magical gods they could make the sky red and yellow, make pigs fly, so on, this is my main reason for not believing in the supernatural, but that does not mean I’ll keep my eyes closed. my world views have been crushed before more then once and it can happen again.

      As I said, I can sympathize with you……quite a few Christians have a prosecution complex, though some have been prosecuted, most haven’t never faced the such of things, and they still have the power and numbers even after 2000 years…what a joke.

      To me Jesus is worse then god of the old…..what you might say….it’s because he speaks of eternal hell-fire, I’ve heard of people baking people alive in the real world, now imagine doing that to billions of finite creatures eternally…..evil of all that is evil. so in my eyes Jesus is worse then god of the old even if he himself is supposed to be god of the old and since he and god are one and yet they seem different……what?

      Hell is one of the primary reasons why Christians are afraid to truly question, I’m talking about the real deal, then you got the cherry on top of that, this devil person, if you start to lose your faith it’s the devil using a weakness or some hidden sin or it’s god is testing you……on and on.

      Your hatred for these myths are well justified. I have had nightmares of being tortures in such ways by demons and tortured in hell it make Rated R movies look like a G rated movie, they would just toy with me and make me plead to god for help…..this is when you take it serious, the average Christian was not like me, thank the gods if I can say that they are not really serious about it like I was…. though some say other wise.

      Not sure if People heard of Dragon Ball Z, a Japaneses anime, a person named Frieza was the ultimate tyrant, wiped planets out with a single finger, watch what he can do in the show, now imagine that theist’s believe there is a more powerful entity then this fictional character created by the Japanese. if I told people Frieza existed if they knew who he was I be laughed at, mocked, who knows what else, but when lots of world or more believes in a all-powerful being that makes Frieza seem like a non existent entity……I’m sure you see my point, but I’ll say the point anyways, is that when enough people believe something you seem sane. test my idea out or use any common American super villain instead….say you believe it exists…..watch the reactions you get from people who believe in more absurd beings called god……LMAO!

      Take Care!

  24. 24
    John

    I know I’m ranting a lot, I do this because I been living a hell educed nightmare for 3 years because of the loss of my faith, I’ve made much progress, but more is needed, this is just another rant to vent out….let it strike the chords to the believers that come here because they based there beliefs on lies as I see it at the moment. I’m angry and I have ever damn right to be after realizing I’ve been living a giant lie of this magnitude…but the anger and bitterness I have now needs to leave and be gone into the wind.

    Flesh to Flesh, Blood to blood, for there is no soul that governs the internal contraction I am in, for my living animate form is but a force of pure biological and material things, thus rending the soul useless, for I cannot force my-self to believe in this concept anymore, for are bodies will decay when dead and and are ashes be scattered across the lands of the planet, ash to ash…dust to dust as they say, for I was born without a choice so shall I mercilessly be cut by the sword of death and set asunder with no mercy when the time comes, for even the biggest creatures that ever existed millions of years ago felled to the merciless sword of death, for so shall all current biological creatures become plunged by death’s sword, for you’ll be cut down without mercy, for are free wills will be violated without choice on that day, for we have no choice but to experience this process of life and ultimate demise of the conscience that resides in the physical brain, for I cannot confront you with rosary words that we can cheat death’s hands, for my passion to cheat death exceeds those who truly believe this foolish lie, for a lie that creeps on human fear on the act of dying, for humans all know that death is the most certain thing in existence, for not even the giant gas stars go on forever…..a endless cycle of death and life.

    For I cry for the ones that death takes out early, for I cannot bring the dead back to life nor can I or we conquer death as some religious figures say they can do, death, is hard for all of us, for it’s just as hard for the ones who believe in a soul to lose someone dear to them as the ones who do not believe in one, for a common bound is shared here, for life of all kinds is precious….even down to the tiniest of bugs are precious, for death was created by no super agent…it exists for NO grand reason as some like to say it does, for once your brain truly is destroyed you will be eradicated consciously from the universe for all eternity…..I cannot fear this….but you can fear the act of it while still existing, for the worse part about death is we are given NO real choice in whether we want to live on or to die, for you will die regardless of your stance in life, for we will all share the same fate….nothingness and NO judgment of any kind exists for the true dead ones of the evil.

    For Take Heed that the more we learn about the brain and human body the more the soul concept seems to be a made up concept to ease are harsh reality…..you best live life and enjoy the moments you have while you have them……remember, over 100,000 and more die a day, it saddens me, but reality is reality….some things have next to zero probability to be changed….time to deal with the inevitability of death.

    Take Care.

  25. 25
    jason the cripple

    When I had my accident (yes, I’m really a paraplegic), I already had doubts about my faith. After, I was first angry with god. I actually found it more comforting to think that what happened to me was blind chance, instead of it happening because of some being’s plan.

    I think it was the anger that let me seriously think about my doubts without fear telling me, “You shouldn’t even be thinking about these things.” It was a couple months before I could say to myself that there might not be a god, and a couple months after that before I could say that there probably wasn’t a god, and I was an atheist.

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