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Jul 26 2012

Is Dennis Markuze already violating the terms of his suspended sentence?

As some of you might recall, Dennis Markuze, the Montreal troll who spent literally years and years sending increasingly unhinged and violent rants and death threats to atheists online (usually under the nym David Mabus), was finally arrested. Pleading guilty, his behavior was put down to drug and alcohol abuse and he received a suspended 18-month sentence, part of the terms of which were that he was to “abstain participating in a social network, blog and discussion forum.” This was just under two months ago.

Last night, this comment popped up on the AXP Facebook page.

The link leads to a forum post containing one of Markuze’s trademark rants, posted there in 2010. “THE BOOBQUAKE – 911″ was a subject line used by Markuze frequently in the last barrage of emails he sent prior to his arrest. Ditto the YouTube link, which goes to the usual JREF/atheist/skeptic bashing lunacy he’d post there as well. The Facebook account “Ftbullies Ftbullies” was created just before midnight last night.

So while this isn’t slam dunk proof Markuze himself posted the comment, common sense makes me ask, who else would have any reason to link to Markuze’s ravings, and why? So I’m making this public, and as I don’t know who exactly to contact with the Montreal authorities so they can look into it more (I would imagine that as part of his suspended sentence, they’d have the right to seize his computer and do a little forensic work on it any time they chose), maybe someone reading this who does know that information can pass it along.


Busted. Markuze just tried posting two comments to this thread. One came from IP address 174.142.32.173, which resolves to Montreal. The second, 74.198.165.48, is also Canadian. I’ve grabbed screenshots of both in the moderation queue, and am forwarding them on. That’s it for old Dennis.

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  1. 1
    Xanthë, Amy of my threads

    Martin,

    I forget who from Montréal was pivotal in getting the authorities to act, but if anyone should have an idea of who to go to on this, I would think Tim Farley (@krelnik) who very thoroughly documented the petition and following events on his blog.

    1. 1.1
      Martin Wagner

      Cheers. I’ve also emailed Hemant in case he knows, as he was blogging the case in pretty good detail too.

  2. 2
    BathTub

    This isn’t the first one, some other posts started appearing on other forums recently. If I can find them again I will add them.

    1. 2.1
      Martin Wagner

      Great. If there are several suspicious postings, it will be better to report them all in one go.

    2. 2.2
      Psychotic Atheist

      Last week he turned up at EvCForum

      Whoever it is is obsessive and prolific (in the scattergun throwing spaghetti in the wall sense of the word), using a Montreal IP address and has a thing for Markuze. I’m betting its the man himself.

  3. 3
    Jasper of Maine

    I can’t say I’m surprised :/

  4. 4
    snowylocks

    He just popped up on the rational response squad as well.

    http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/32545

  5. 5
    Russell Glasser

    I think it’s awesome that Markuze is aligning himself with the “ftbullies” hashtag. Those guys must be very proud to associate themselves with such fine company.

  6. 6
    Reynold

    Neither can I.

    Also here.

  7. 7
    James Sweet

    It’s definitely either Dennis or a copycat/impersonator. From a purely selfish perspective, I don’t actually care too much if the volume stays at present levels. All things being equal, (i.e. no court orders in place), he has his freedom of speech, and as long as it doesn’t rise to the level of harassment or death threats, it’s not a big deal.

    But of course, if this is indeed him, 1) he’s violating his court order, 2) the low volume and death threat-free posts may be a precursor to him resuming his old MO, and 3) it probably is not a good sign for Dennis’ own mental health recovery. So my own self-interest aside, action is probably warranted.

    1. 7.1
      Martin Wagner

      Right, it’s not a question of whether what he’s doing is threatening. It is simply a requirement of his suspended sentence that he refrain from online forums and social media. If it’s him, he’s in violation, even if all he’d posted was cat pictures.

      1. MeowMeowMeow

        why do you hate cats? :D

    2. 7.2
      LykeX

      it probably is not a good sign for Dennis’ own mental health recovery

      Very much this. If he really is responsible, it’s a sign that he’s losing it. Any normal person would surely be able to control themselves when they’re under a court order.
      If he doesn’t even have that much self-control, he needs help.

  8. 8
    Raging Bee

    Unhinged hateful trolls like this guy generally don’t have enough self-control to stay quiet for long; so the only surprise here is that he didn’t resume his trademark behavior sooner. If this really is him, I hope he gets screwed good for breaking the deal; and I hope that that, in turn, will spur him to get honest and seek the help he obviously needs.

  9. 9
    Cuttlefish

    I reported similar activity at the end of June, and was not the only person to do so. I got word in early July that the crown prosecutor had been notified. No word since then.

  10. 10
    Tim Riches

    We have something called a diversion program here in Canada. Depending on the crime committed, if the offender’s mental state is questionable, or if drugs were involved (ie: missed meds, not crack) the Judge has the option to refer them to outpatient mental health services. The diversion, once entered into, constitutes a peace bond, and usually lasts between one and two years. The courts take violations VERY seriously. If Mabus manages to ride out his diversion period without violations, he will have no criminal record in Canada. This outcome would obviously be unacceptable, given the nature of his offenses, if he is indeed back on the prowl.

    I found a YouTube account last week while searching for videos from TAM2012, and user “Mike Nossos” came up because he had tagged his videos with that term.

    “How the divine pen of michel nostradamus crushed the modern atheist movement.”
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81eCi2CCOSaH2AKKxmDLyg

  11. 11
    porlob

    The “atheistwar3″ user that posted the linked forum post in 2010 was active on that very thread as late as May 2012. Sounds very likely that this is actually Markuze and not some troll pretending to be.

  12. 12
    Barefoot Bree

    He popped up on the Secular Cafe, too – same username and post as in Martin’s OP here.

  13. 13
    Ophelia Benson

    Fascinating that he’s latched onto the FTBullies tag.

  14. 14
    Denis Robert

    Just posted a complaint, in French, on the Montreal police website. Hopefully, the fact that its in French will make it more likely that they will read it and act.

  15. 15
    osmosis321

    I bet a dollar he stopped taking his meds.

  16. 16
    jdon

    I keep cycling between feeling sorry for the guy and a sense of schadenfreude.

  17. 17
    1. 17.1
      bradreddekopp

      Aw, you beat me to it.

  18. 18
    bradreddekopp

    I strongly suspect that David Mabus/Dennis Markuze is back in action. This appeared on my forum today, under the username “ftbullies”: How the divine pen of Nostradamus crushed the atheists

    1. 18.1
      bradreddekopp

      The IP address for the user resolves to a Second Cup location. If you’re not familiar with it, Second Cup is a coffee shop franchise something like Starbucks. It offers WiFi and it has several locations in or near Montreal.

      This is not absolute proof that it’s Markuze, of course, but it looks pretty suspicious to me.

      1. Matrim

        A Second Cup?!?! My god…it’s Knives Chau.

        Sorry, my first exposure to Second Cup was through the Scott Pilgrim comics.

  19. 19
    Taqiyya Mockingbird

    Same username, same post came up yesterday at atheistforums.com. Wonder how he will like being someone’s girlfriend…

    1. 19.1
      sosw

      Prison rape isn’t cool, even as a joke.

      Also, while I don’t have numbers, my impression is that it isn’t nearly as common in most developed nations as it is in the US.

      1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

        Who said anything about “cool”?

        If you feel bad for him, you are certainly free to send him plenty of lube and breath mints.

        1. One Thousand Needles, lumper-splitter

          At this point you should probably just shut up.

          1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            At this point you should probably just pound sand.

          2. MrTrex

            Lol, epic advice ignore fail. You TRIED to warn him…

        2. MikeTheInfidel

          You’re neither clever nor amusing.

          1. Spare sock

            Actually, that was pretty amusing. Sure, they’re just opininos, but let’s give both sides an equal platform.

            People are far too sensitive. Is the world full of pussies these days, or is this internet just a bright light they all swarm around?

          2. LykeX

            Actually, that was pretty amusing.

            Please explain what exactly is amusing about rape.

            Sure, they’re just opininos, but let’s give both sides an equal platform.

            Just because there are two sides does not mean that both deserve equal time. Some opinions are just stupid.

            People are far too sensitive. Is the world full of pussies these days…

            If you’re going to troll, try not to make it so obvious.

          3. LykeX

            Note to moderators:
            I can’t help but wonder if “Spare sock” might be a sock-puppet of Taqiyya. Maybe a quick check of IPs might be in order?

            Maybe I’m being paranoid, but when a person with a name like that shows up to reanimate a dead thread, just to support a person who has been banned, I can’t help but get suspicious.

          4. Martin Wagner

            IP’s are not the same.

          5. LykeX

            Aw, well thanks for checking. That’s the problem with paranoia; too many false positives.

            Incidentally, this also demonstrates the importance of testing your ideas. The fact that a hypothesis fits the data is not sufficient to conclude that it’s true.

        3. Luna_the_cat

          Seriously, NOT ok. Quit it.

    2. 19.2
      steve oberski

      Probably about the same way you would feel in similar circumstances.

      1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

        You’d be hard pressed to find anyone with “similar circumstances”, his kind are few and far between. Still, I think he’ll like the attention…

        1. steve oberski

          By “similar circumstances” I meant you, in prison, with or without a plentiful supply of breath mints and lube.

          Empathy, it’s a defining characteristic of well adjusted human beings, give it a shot, you might actually start to like yourself.

          1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            Empathy is for those who deserve it. You seem far too fragile and delicate to continue reading my posts.

          2. Sonorus

            If I were in his situation I would hope that people would get me the psychiatric help that I need. He doesn’t need empathy. He needs professional help.

    3. 19.3
      pentatomid

      Prison rape jokes aren’t funny. Just don’t.

      1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

        Who is trying to be funny? Do you seriously have that little to do, that you have to fill up your time hijacking discussions with irrelevant rants over tangential commentary? You need to go out and buy yourself a life! Try to stay on topic, kiddies!

        1. pentatomid

          Sorry, but no. It doesn’t matter that it’s not on topic. Your rape comment (which was apparantly not a joke, which actually makes it worse) is simply unacceptable. I don’t know how long you’ve been here on FTB, but we do not look kindly upon such remarks.
          Asshole.

          1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            Too bad you don’t like it.

            Sanctimonious poseur.

          2. Martin Wagner

            Kill the flamewar now.

        2. Jafafa Hots

          You have far too much in common with Markuze for my tastes.

    4. 19.4
      LykeX

      I wonder, are you going to contribute something relevant or are you simply going to make hideously disgusting not-jokes and then insult the people who call you out for it?

      1. Jasper of Maine

        I’m sure it’s just a correlation that someone who thinks rape jokes are funny is also a complete ass to anyone who disagrees with him.

        1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

          Who made a joke? I am sure there is a correlation between trolljacking this discussion over an irrelevant offhand comment and being an oversensitive weenie with a chip on its shoulder.

      2. Taqiyya Mockingbird

        Actually, quite unlike you, I did contribute something relevant in this, #24 and #25. All you have done is troll. derail the discussion and whine like a baby over an irrelevant offhand comment. Congratulations.

        1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

          @Sonorus: It seems as if you are of the opinion that Markuze has no choice or responsibility in his behavior, amirite? If so, everything he has done that has gotten him to this point, he has consciously chosen to do. He is not some player-piano innocent victim of “inner demons” or some such, that notion is just superstition. He has already dodged attempts to provide him with therapy, blaming his choices on alcohol and drugs (which he also Chose to use) and has chosen to attempt to continue his behavior. He has avoided any real consequences for his actions and the time ha come for him to receive those consequences. I will not agree with whiners who wish to mollycoddle him up to the point that he takes out a roomful of people; I have seen that happen to too many times to my neighbors –I live in Denver — to have any patience with it at all. Sanctimonious, holier-than-thou poseurs who wish to stroke their egos by pretending they are pious with their pretentious show of empathy and disdain for those of us who want to see this clown face the consequences of his actions can simply pound sand. Their self-aggrandizing whining and posing disgusts me.

          1. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts

            You’ve got some pretty disgusting views, Taqiyya. By saying that Dennis deserved to be raped in prison, you contribute to rape culture. You know who else thinks that raping someone is something that a person can “deserved”? Not just rapists in prison, but rapists outside of prison as well. Are you happy that you are validating their rape-justifications? Prison rape apologia is harmful to those throughout our entire culture, not just those in prison. Not that people in prison don’t matter*.

            *Aww, I am such a pearl-clutcher because I don’t approve of rape. Bite me.

          2. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            @Tone-trolls: Did you oversensitive little flowers miss Martin’s post about killing the flame war now? Show the man some respect and quit wallowing in your self-aggrandizing, self-righteous poseurship.

          3. Martin Wagner

            My warning was directed at you mostly. Other people are criticizing what you wrote, you’ve been following up with variations of “fuck you” and “shove it up your ass.” This isn’t playing well with others, dude.

          4. M. A. Melby

            It seems as if you are of the opinion that Markuze has no choice or responsibility in his behavior, amirite?

            It seem if you are of the opinion that you have no choice or responsibility in your behavior, amirite?

            Just to keep this “on topic” – this guy is probably going to prison for saying horrible things on the internet and threatening others. He dehumanizes others. He sees them as the enemy. In his mind, his hatred of them is justified and any punishment bestowed on them is righteous.

            I don’t know much about the case, so correct me if I’m wrong.

            I hope he is treated humanely. I hope he is given the help he needs. It may even be possible that he might one day see his error, who knows. You are right, the state has an obligation to protect, but allowing him to be abused and further psychologically damaged isn’t justice; it’s just a sick revenge fantasy.

            “But they were criminals” has been the justification for all sorts of torture, killing, and even mass murder. I suppose you think the “criminals” who died of being subject to heat indexes of 120 F over 10 days in Texas prisons – essentially baked to death – some also in for parole violations was a-okay? They were just paying for their actions? The state that actually tortured them until some of them died has no responsibility? We have no responsibility?

            The only difference between murder, rape and torture outside of prison and murder, rape and torture inside a prison is the ease of social justification of unjustifiable acts through cultural-level dehumanization and the power-base of the perpetrators.

    5. 19.5
      SallyStrange

      Rape is torture and a hate crime against women, non-gender-conforming men, and criminals. Don’t trivialize it. Don’t contribute to rape culture.

  20. 20
    BarkAtTheMoon

    He just popped up with the same message and same username at atheistforums.com.

  21. 21
    Yasu

    Crazy anti-atheists.

  22. 22
    Yasu

    http://preliatorcausa.blogspot.com/2012/07/a-few-questions-about-ftbullies-and-sexism-3631.html
    Will this foolishness ever end? -_-

  23. 23
    panamafloyd

    Looks like he’s posted to the old alt.atheism Usenet group as well. Traced to the IP for Second Cup. This one contains a claim that he’s not Markuze, but “just a fan”. Link to thread on Google Groups: http://tinyurl.com/cw4sa5m

  24. 24
    Zme

    He left a couple of droppings at the Richard Dawkin’s Foundation web site. They seem to have been deleted.

    1. 24.1
      Taqiyya Mockingbird

      Can you check and see if the mods there can access IP and any other identifying information from that post and pass it on the the authorities?

  25. 25
    jaranath

    Can’t help feeling sad about this. I don’t like watching anyone fall apart, and I have a hard time believing this will end well for him.

  26. 26
    aZerogodist

    Got same type of post from ”ftbuly” today on the Atheist Ireland forum.

  27. 27
    grumpyoldfart

    My prediction: No parole violation.
    The cops will say they are investigating the situation but do nothing.
    (What was it? Twenty years before they took action last time.)

    1. 27.1
      Taqiyya Mockingbird

      From what I have seen about the way things have unfolded, the Montreal police seemed to respond pretty quickly once they were made aware of/finally realized the true gravity of the situation.

      I see Markuze as an Aurora/Columbine clone-in-waiting.

    2. 27.2
      Martin Wagner

      The difference now is that Markuze is currently serving a suspended sentence, the terms of which involve not posting to blogs or forums or social media sites. So because he is in violation of the terms of an actual sentence, they cannot simply shrug and go “no big deal.”

    3. 27.3
      Jasper of Maine

      I don’t know how the Canadian judicial system works, but if it’s anything like the U.S., judges are not a fan of contempt of court. That’s not a thing you want to do.

  28. 28
    mildlymagnificent

    He turned up on TheScienceForum – using ftbuly as a username and claiming to be not DM but a fan! (Promptly deleted.)

    Exactly the same wording as @23, panamafloyd, with an eloquent little bonus

    do you see why we call these idiots little nazis?

    tell me

    do you think you can threaten my right to FREE SPEECH?

    what if I told you that I am not who you think I am…..

  29. 29
    LykeX

    @Taqiyya

    Rape is horrible and wrong no matter who is happens to or what the circumstances are. Objecting to your casual attitude about it is not trolling, it’s not holier-than-thou. Rather, it’s what’s called being a civilized human being.

    There’s a basic level of empathy that anyone is entitled to, no matter who they are or what they’ve done. There are certain actions that are never justified, no matter what.

    Your casual joking/not joking/whatever about rape it not ok. It labels you instantly as a callous little shit. You need to snap out of it or get used to being called out for it.

    The consequences of Markuze’s actions do not include rape. The proper consequences are monitoring, therapy and/or incarceration. Rape is not part of the deal, it should never be part of the deal, and the fact that it often occurs in prisons is a failure of the justice system, not righteous payback.

    Rape is fucking wrong. It’s wrong every time, no matter what, no matter who. If you don’t get that, I strongly encourage you to go play on the railroad tracks.

    1. 29.1
      davidb

      I agree.

      I think PZ would agree, too.

      One of the things I don’t like about Pharyngula at the moment is a lot of inconsistency in the comments section.

      On the one hand people often get labelled as tone trolls, and jumped on accordingly, by some section of the horde.

      On the other, sexism and posts tolerant of rape of whatever sort, and of whoever, really need jumping on.

      To some this is tone trollery, but it ain’t IMV.

      It is just asshattery.

      But it does lead to a grey area of what is tone trollery, and what is righteous picking on asshattery.

      I rather like Mike Nugents take on the matter, that PZ linked to recently.

      And, while I think an invitation to play on railway lines is a bit on the hyperbolic side of things, I rather wish that Taqiyya would reconsider his position, and decide to stop being an asshat.

      David B

      1. LykeX

        But it does lead to a grey area of what is tone trollery

        I go by the definition that tone trolling is when you care more about style than content. By that definition, there’s no ambiguity. It doesn’t matter how it’s being said, the opinion expressed by Taqiyya is revolting. It wouldn’t matter to me how much they sugar coat it. The underlying opinion is highly problematic.

        I very much hope that Taqiyya simply let their emotions run rampant and a bit of consideration will lead to a revision of their opinion.
        If not, I hope they feel very unwelcome here and do not return. There are plenty of rape apologists in the world already. We don’t need them infesting this place.

        1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

          And you can park your “rape apologist” strawman right next to your other ones, right where the sun doesn’t shine. For crying out loud, I have never seen so many oversensitive, log-on-their-shoulder crybabies in all my life.

          1. Jafafa Hots

            You aren’t a rape apologist. By your own words you weren’t joking, and you aren’t excusing it. You were anticipating it with no regret or empathy.

            No rape apologist.
            Rape advocate would be more accurate.

            And please, no more “crybaby” comments.
            While I wouldn’t be the type to use such an insult, it’s really far less appropriate for those calmly pointing out the poor behavior of someone than, say, that someone repeatedly hurling the word like a petulant child at anyone who points out their poor taste and limited ethics.

            If you truly can’t refrain from fantasizing about harm coming to others and then defending that character flaw in a stream of repetitive troll-like statements, perhaps YouTube comments threads would be more to your liking.

        2. Taqiyya Mockingbird

          @LykeX: “I go by the definition that tone trolling is when you care more about style than content.”

          Disingenuous equivocate much?

          1. stealthbadger

            Not only is being edgy not all it’s cracked up to be, not only is being edgy behind a keyboard and monitor kind of pathetic, you’re not even edgy; you’re just a…

            [Note from the moderator: Stealthbadger, this is your first post, and while I can understand the intent, I have to say that leaping headfirst into obscenities and flaming isn't the best way to start off. I've redacted the rest of your post for now. The poster you're addressing has already been banned, so there's no further point in piling on. Please try to be a little more circumspect and give some constructive contributions until we get to know you better. Cheers! —Kazim]

      2. Taqiyya Mockingbird

        Asshattery is your little Purity Raped strawmanning act and that gigantic chip on your shoulder. Get a life.

    2. 29.2
      Taqiyya Mockingbird

      LykeX:

      You needed to preface your little tone-troll rant with “In MY opinion…”

      @”…tolerant of rape…”

      Nice straw man there. You know where you can stuff him.

      1. LykeX

        Fine. In my opinion, rape crosses a fundamental line. It’s incompatible with civilized behavior and can never be justified. It should form no basis of any kind of punishment, whether legal or personal.
        In my opinion, people who rape, support people who rape, gloat about people being raped or in any other way support rape culture are barbaric, sick individuals who ought to grow a sense of decency.

        Do you disagree with any of that?

        1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

          I disagree with all of your strawmanning and sanctimonious holier-than-thou posturing, yes. You have an obvious chip on your shoulder and
          way too much time on your hands, and your opinion means diddley to me.

          1. Jafafa Hots

            I’ll happily admit to having a chip on my shoulder against not only rapists but also those who joke about it, minimize it, fantasize about it happening to others or who think it a valid form of punishment or something that someone deserves or has coming to them.

            Chip on my shoulder against rape culture?
            You bet your tasteless dimwitted ass I have one.

        2. LykeX

          Could you please explain how a description of my own position constitutes a strawman?

          1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            You can’t possibly be that dumb.

          2. LykeX

            I clarified my position and asked you if you disagreed. I was trying to get you to clarify your position. Please explain how that constitutes a straw man.

            If you agree with me, then say so. If you don’t, then please explain what you disagree with and why. If you think I’m misrepresenting your position, then take this opportunity to correct me.

            I’m inviting you to clarify your position. Instead of throwing out buzzwords and one-liners, how about actually engaging with what I’m saying?

          3. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            Your “clarifying your position” only amounts to yet another sad attempt to strawman me.

            Did you miss Martin’s comment “kill the flame war now”? You really have too much time on yoir hands.

      2. J. J. Ramsey

        Here’s a nice flowchart for you, Taqiyya Mockingbird: http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/07/27/so-you-want-to-tell-a-rape-joke/joke_flow_chart/

  30. 30
    davidb

    He got banned at Secualr Cafe twice, as ftbullies and ftbully.

    Made it easy for us.

    Regarding how some of the rest has gone, I have often castigated the nastier sort of theist for revelling in the sort of cruel and unusual punishment they imagine their god will give me for failing to believe in him

    It seems to me unfortunate that some atheists give an impression of revelling in the sort of cruel and illegal punishment that they imagine Mabus might get in prison.

    Still, there is no rule that says that all atheists have to be nice guys.

    I would personally prefer that atheists try to inhabit the moral high ground, myself.

    David B

    1. 30.1
      Taqiyya Mockingbird

      Ad nauseum much?

  31. 31
    LykeX

    Your “clarifying your position” only amounts to yet another sad attempt to strawman me.

    How so? I’m not saying a word about your position. I’m describing mine. I’m inviting you to describe your own position.

    See, this is the first step in having a discussion about something. First, you each describe your position. Then, you can assess commonalities and differences and move on from there. As long as you refuse to describe your own position, it’s impossible to have any kind of productive conversation.

    Did you miss Martin’s comment “kill the flame war now”?

    This is not a flame war. It’s a conversation, or at least an attempt at one. Do you think that Martin meant that nobody was allowed to talk anymore? I don’t.
    I suggest that what Martin intended to try to push the thread in a more productive direction. Random insults, while sometimes fun, don’t really lead anywhere. I imagine that’s why he put his foot down. He’s a mod after all.

    It’s also for that exact reason that I’m trying to engage you here. I stand by my previous statements, but also recognize that they may not be entirely helpful. So, I’m trying something different.
    Rather than yelling at each other, how about we try actually talking? Of course, for that to happen, you need to be in on it too.

    You really have too much time on yoir hands.

    I like having time on my hands. Some people lie to stay busy. I like to have lots and lots of completely unstructured free time.
    So do you, judging from the frequency of your replies.

    So, how about we use this free time of ours to talk about this? If you’re unsure of where to start, I can offer a suggestion. How about clarifying this:

    …the time ha come for him to receive those consequences… those of us who want to see this clown face the consequences of his actions…

    Do you include possible prison rape as one of these “consequences”? If so, are you saying that you’d like to see Markuze get raped?

    Don’t accuse me of strawmanning you. I’m not. I’m asking you what you meant. I can’t read your mind. You have to tell me. If your answer to the first question is no, then just say so.

    1. 31.1
      Taqiyya Mockingbird

      Oh yeah, and add your sad attempts at patronizing while strawmanning me to the list of things you can stuff. You must be running out of room.

      1. jdog

        In your opinion, is there any case in which rape is an acceptable consequence of someone’s actions? “Yes” or “no” will be sufficient.

        1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

          In your opinion, is it somehow not insane to go on a batshit tone-troll crusade over an innocuous comment? Are you on your way to picket the set of Office Space for including jokes about “federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison” in their movie? You clowns are absolutely ridiculous.

          1. jdog

            My answers to your questions are “no” and “no”, please do me the courtesy of answering mine.

          2. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            @jdog: I don’t owe a disingenuous strawmanning twat like you an iota of courtesy, nor am I going to play your strawman game. Thank you for admitting you are batshit insane. Piss off.

          3. jdog

            That sufficiently answers my question. Thanks for playing.

          4. Timothy (TRiG)

            In your opinion, is it somehow not insane to go on a batshit tone-troll crusade over an innocuous comment?

            Ah, so you’re shitting on the mentally ill too.

            It would be unwise to go on any form of crusade over an innocuous comment. Your comment was not innocuous.

            TRiG.

          5. Jafafa Hots

            Your opinion clearly is that anticipating someone’s possible rape (without any regret) is innocuous.

            Let me clue you in to something. Nobody here is going to let a comment like that slide, ever. You’re going to find that this comment will follow you until you admit it was tasteless or until you decide to leave.

            If you really think that you can get by by octupling down on your sick statement, making laughably transparent denials or weakly insulting others into accepting your lack of empathy, you are being quite foolish.

    2. 31.2
      LykeX

      Am I to understand that you’re outright refusing to explain what you meant by the quoted comment, which you posted in this very thread?

      1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

        Oh, look, another strawman you can stuff.

      2. LykeX

        OK, at this point, I’m going to have to ask you to define “strawman”. I’m not at all convinced you understand the term.
        I asked a question. You pointedly did not answer it, despite replying directly to that comment. From that I conclude that you’re refusing to answer. If I’m wrong about that, then just answer the question.

        I’ll grant you I’m making some assumption about what you mean. I have to, since you’re unusually reluctant to come out and actually say what you mean.
        It would be so much easier to accurately represent your position if you actually tell us what it is. If you don’t, I have no choice but to try to draw inferences from what you do say. Last time I did that, you threw a fit, which is still ongoing.

        I’ve asked you repeatedly. Jdog just asked you. Yet, you keep dodging. If the comment was so innocuous, then why not just explain what you meant by it?
        Why are you so reluctant to answer a simple question?

        1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

          I haven’t dodged anything, you lying twat. You have been on a two-day campaign to misrepresent everything from my intentions to my opinion about rape. I have made myself clear and I don’t give a shit that yiu are so batshit desperate to prove how pious you think you are that you need to make a big show of overblown offense that I wish that asshole ill. Too bad for you. If you don’t like it, don’t read my posts, crybaby

          You are too fragile to be on the internet. And I hear your mommy calling you to bed.

          1. Jafafa Hots

            …you lying twat.

            Sexist asshole.

            You are too fragile to be on the internet.

            The internet is not some magical alternate universe.
            If you’re an asshole on the internet, you’re just an asshole.

        2. LykeX

          Asking you what your position is not the same as misrepresenting it and if you haven’t dodged anything, then please point me to where you answered this:

          …the time ha come for him to receive those consequences… those of us who want to see this clown face the consequences of his actions…

          Do you include possible prison rape as one of these “consequences”? If so, are you saying that you’d like to see Markuze get raped?

          I must have missed your answer.

          1. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            Asking LOADED questions as part of your strawman campaign IS strawmanning, you disingenuous weasel. And I am referring to your entire two-day batshit tone-troll campaign as well. Your pettiness is unbelievable.

          2. LykeX

            Fine, let’s try it this way. You made the following statement:

            …those of us who want to see this clown face the consequences of his actions…

            In your own words, please clarify that statement.

          3. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            Lets try it this way: Pound your hysterics and your army of straw men up your ass.

          4. LykeX

            You’ve made a statement. I’m asking you, without any leading or loaded questions, to expand upon it. Shine the light of your massive intellect on this poor wretch and allow me to understand what you meant by what you said.

            That’s all. Just explain what you meant.

          5. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            And I’m telling you to shove your holier-than-thou charade up your ass.

          6. LykeX

            I don’t know why you’re accusing me of being holier-than-thou. At this point, all I’m doing is asking you to state your position on a subject that you brought up in the first place.

            I’m not trying to misrepresent you, slander you or insult you. I’m trying to figure out if I even understand what you’re saying. That’s turning out to be a lot harder than I’d thought.

            We can get to the disagreeing, the yelling, the insults, the advice on suitable items for rectal insertion and all that good stuff later. For now, let’s just make sure we’re actually clear on our mutual positions. I’ve described mine. I’m asking you to do the same.
            If you want, you can answer some of the questions I’ve asked. If you think they’re too loaded, then just riff on it yourself. Just, one way or another, express your opinion on this.

            I really don’t think I’m asking that much.

          7. Taqiyya Mockingbird

            Don’t give me that patronizing horseshit. Take your straw men and your disingenuous holier-than thou tomfuckery and stuff it up your ass.

  32. 32
    LykeX

    See, the problem here is that since you’re so unwilling to clearly say what your position is, I’m left with just having to guess at it. For example, I might guess that your reluctance to explain what you meant by the above quoted statement is due to a concern that if you did clearly explain what you meant, it would be clear to everyone reading that you’re a horrible person.
    Now, is that guess correct? I don’t know. You know. You could answer, but you’ve continually refused to do so.

    I might guess that your repeated accusations of strawmanning come as a result of you realizing that you can’t actually defend your words. I would guess that you know you’ve painted yourself into a corner, yet you’re unwilling to retract your statements, perhaps because of common pride.
    Is that guess correct? I don’t know. You know, but you’re not telling.

    Have I perhaps completely misunderstood what you were originally saying? Could it be that this is all just some big misunderstanding? I don’t know and until you clarify your position, that’s not going to change.

    Notice a theme here? This is a discussion thread. You’ve brought up a subject of a high emotional impact and now that you’re getting responses to it, you shut up.
    How are we to proceed? How can we turn this discussion in a productive direction? I’m sure you’ll agree that we don’t seem to be getting anywhere at the moment.

    I’ve tried a few different things: clarifying my own position, asking you to clarify yours, asking you to explain previous statements. I’ve tried direct pointed question and open-ended invitations to speak. You’ve rejected every one of them.

    I’m running out of options here and I don’t feel like you’re really pulling your weight in the conversation. In fact, it feels more like you’re trying to sabotage it.
    Am I misinterpreting your intentions? I don’t know and you won’t tell me. That’s the basic problem, as I see it.

    I’ll keep trying, but I’m not sure what I can really do unless you start showing some willingness to actually engage in the discussion.

    So, let’s wipe the board clean and try again. Let’s start from the beginning, shall we? Why did you bring up rape to begin with? What was it you were trying to communicate?

    1. 32.1
      Taqiyya Mockingbird

      Look, asshole, there is no conversation. It never was a conversation, and it’s not going to be. You can shove your patronizing and your strawmanning and your sanctimonious disingenuous charade and your hysterical exaggerations and jump off a fucking cliff. You are fucking unbelievable. Go fuck yourself. In the ass. With a cactus.

      1. Martin Wagner

        You are banned, Taqiyya. I think that’s more than enough variants of “fuck you in the ass” and “shove it up your ass” for any one thread.

        One of these days, people will figure out that when I say “kill the flamewar,” I mean it.

        1. AZGeo

          Muchas gracias, señor.

        2. SallyStrange

          Pardon me for posting before reading all the way down the thread. My bad.

          1. Jafafa Hots

            Me too. Sorry.

        3. Matrim

          I believe a slow clap is in order…

          But, back to the possible Markuze, is he still bopping around the internet or has he gone to ground again?

        4. Kaj

          Thanks for helping keep this an abuse-free zone Martin. It can’t be easy, especially when you really tried to give him a chance to NOT be a annoyance about it.

        5. alvaroibanez

          Thank you very much. I do have one question, though, aren’t posts here moderated? How did he get away with so much trolling in the first place?

          1. Russell Glasser

            The posts are moderated, but we try not to remove someone just for holding differing opinions. Once a person has had one post passed through moderation, the system deems them safe to post whatever they want. We simply can’t monitor every single comment, the volume’s too big. When Taqiyya started on his “shove it up your ass” tour, I see Martin tried to give him warning before hitting the hang-up button. Anyway, it’s pointless to retroactively delete comments after they have been posted, especially if they got replies that wouldn’t make sense without context.

          2. Martin Wagner

            Also, I was nowhere near a computer most of the weekend, so the flamewar commenced without me for the most part.

          3. Alvaro

            The fact that the posts are not individually moderated is the key piece of information I was missing.

            My thinking was that, since posts were moderated, they have to be individually approved, and as such, the logical scenario of him posting up a storm before anyone noticed was impossible, and thus we were seeing exactly how much it took to finally cross the line.

            And I was certain before you mentioned it that you don’t moderate against opossing opinions. I just found it surprising that so many personal attacks were deliveratly let through before a stop was put to it.

            Of course, now that I know how the moderation system works, it all makes sense again :)

    2. 32.2
      JesseW, the Juggling Janitor

      Nice response to a standard troll. Assuming you don’t mind, I may quote this in various places when similar situations come up.

  33. 33
    panamafloyd

    Well, well. Showed up today at Reddit. Still claims not to be Markuze himself, but “a fan”. I wouldn’t click the link he posted, my browser *really* doesn’t like it. (I’m on Firefox if it makes a difference)

    http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/xd1g7/how_the_divine_pen_of_michel_nostradamus_crushed/

  34. 34
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    that was entertaining

  35. 35
    Jafafa Hots

    Sorry for feeding the troll after it was banned.

    I saw the stop the flamewar thing, but then saw the troll continue and talk about “two days” etc., so I thought things were still going.

    Shoulda finished reading the thread.

  36. 36
    Lausten North

    Not too surprising that Dennis would follow this pattern. Sorry, if this is repeat, too many comments to scan. I don’t have the link, but I remember that part of how he was busted is some of the bloggers copied the police on their replies. Dennis followed a pattern of picking up new victims whenever someone would forward or reply to his rants.

    Makes me nervous just commenting here. But that’s the lesson. Authorities didn’t understand how much trouble he could cause until they got on his mailing list.

  37. 37
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    I believe the person you want to contact for coordinating Markuze information is William Raillant-Clark at the Rutherford Mansfield blog.

  38. 38
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Actually, a petition was set up that sent a message to Montreal Police every time it was signed. Markuze got on it and signed again and again so that he could paste reams of threats into the comment field. The police suddenly got interested when they began receiving the attached comments.

  39. 39
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    …and that’s after literally years of people reporting him to their local police, the FBI, the Montreal police, and the RCMP.

  40. 40
    Evader

    Good work lads!

    That is all.

  41. 41
    DrMatt

    Somebody claiming to be NOT Markuze But A Fan just resumed posting in Markuze’s trademark style from Markuze’s account on SkepticalCommunity, where his posting is generally tolerated, kept-tabs-of, and laughed-at.
    In theory, Markuze could have shared his password with somebody else who shares his unique characteristics. And in theory, fish could be aliens from outter space.

  42. 42
    chunksmediocrites

    Dennis Markuze is also posting at freethought forum, or else someone who amazingly has access to his davidmabus2006 login information and posts in his exact same style. Also claiming to not be Dennis Markuze, but “a fan.”

    http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26787

  43. 43
    pianodwarf

    He’s been showing up in the WWGHA forums as well. The moderators and admins are preserving his posts for law enforcement use and are talking to the authorities in Montreal.

  44. 44
    1. 44.1
      Turtle

      He’s commenting here at FTB under that name too.

  45. 45
    Maggie

    This is hilarious. I’ve never heard of this troll (notoriety fail on his part) but it makes me happy to hear about a jerk getting his comuppance.

  46. 46
    mooniekate

    If whoever it is is not Markuze, but a fan, that fan isn’t a really good one, because they’re getting Markuze in a lot of trouble. If it is Markuze… If the threat of losing his freedom isn’t enough of a deterrent from that crap, then he needs serious mental help as soon as possible.

  47. 47
    Kepler's Dream

    We’ve had Mabus/Markuze or whoever might be pretending to be him spamming the same crap over at atheistforums.org, under the names ftbullies and freethoughtbullies. Assuming it’s him, both names strongly suggest he is still obsessing over P Z Myers. Just my two penn’orth, but I’m sure the relevant authorities need to be informed before we see his photo in the papers.

  48. 48
    Xanthë, Amy of my threads

    Looks like the trend is continuing. The Google search:

    site:freethoughtblogs.com 5000 whining atheists vs the Great Prophet

    … currently returns no less than 4 pages of results; the first 13 results when reverse sorted by date are the exact same Mabus drive-by style catch-phrase plus forum web link, on about ten different FTB blogs.

  49. 49
    Eric O

    He’s also going by “Mike Nostras” on YouTube.

  50. 50
    Cylis B.

    Just a quick thought here…
    Granting the benefit of the doubt to this new Markuze-esque poster, that he *isn’t* actually Markuze, but a merely a fan… is that maybe still enough to monitor the poster, given the trouble the original Markuze caused/got into?
    To be clear, I’m not trying to jump guilt by association. I’m just saying that regardless of the person’s identity, given his open admission of respect for Markuze, and already apparent trend to emulate him, shouldn’t that be enough for Canadian authorities to monitor the situation more closely in an attempt to avoid a similar, future debacle?

    1. 50.1
      Hatchetfish

      Not really much room for doubt given 42 and 43: whoever this is has access to not one but two of his old accounts, on different fora. The two explanations (far unlikelier than Markuze being down the rabbit hole again) that would allow for a copycat are that, either:

      • those two accounts have actually always been a copycat, who a) shut down when Markuze himself did, and b) have decided to start up now, along with all of this, or
      • Markuze gave them the account info, making them not copycats but accomplices.

      I was willing to believe, maybe even hopeful*, that it was ‘not Mabus but a fan’ when all I’d seen was comments -on- FTB, that had started tying in ftbullies crap. That was pretty believable as an MRA shit flinging generalized harassing and demoralizing tactic. But with it spread all over the athe-o-sphere rather than focused here, and using two of the old accounts, well, to me it doesn’t look like his parole is going well.

      * Since it would mean both that he hadn’t relapsed that far, and also because I’ll admit, the thought of MRA’s eventually being outed for pulling a stunt like this had appeal.

  51. 51
    helen sotiriadis

    he just commented on my blog as well… do you know if someone’s on this?

  52. 52
    jenniferparadis-hagar

    More Mabus this week on our message board at the Straight Dope.

    I have not been able to find where to make formal police complaint, how do you do this?

    Would really appreciate some help, we’ve been visited by this jerk hundreds of times — literally — over the years and we are sick of it.

    Thanks.

    1. 52.1
      Martin Wagner

      I know who to contact for further info and will ask again.

      1. helen sotiriadis

        thanks.
        i’m getting regular visits on my blog these days.

      2. jenniferparadis-hagar

        That would be great, thanks.

        Obviously he needs professional help, major help. He shouldn’t be doing this.

        jph

  53. 53
    Enigma32

    I woke up this morning to a comment from Mabus, posting as Justo Xjustice on my particular blog. The post is here:

    http://post-modernenlightenment.blogspot.com/2012/09/once-again-its-this-stuff-again.html

    And while I deleted his comment, I still have it in my email. It’s typical Markuze stuff; ending with:

    “5000 whining atheists vs the Great Prophet

    how the divine pen of Michel N. crushed the international atheist movement”

    Which I’m sure is either Markuze or a copy-cat. I’m not sure how to trace IPs, so I don’t know for certain where it came from, but I still have the whole comment if you’re collecting them to forward to the Montreal police later.

  54. 54
    simonhall

    And he’s shown up as ‘Ops Archangels’ (https://www.facebook.com/ops.archangels.9) on Facebook, posting the same old drivel on an Atheism page:

    “do you think you can threaten my right to FREE SPEECH?

    what if I told you that I am not who you think I am….

    Not Dennis Markuze – but a FAN!”

    Yawn.

    1. 54.1
  55. 55
    Citizen

    Looks like he’s just posted (12th Nov 2012) at thenakedscientists.com ,
    this time under the peudonym “opsxarchangels”, but claims it’s not him …

    “do you think you can threaten my right to FREE SPEECH?
    what if I told you that I am not who you think I am….
    Not Dennis Markuze – but a FAN!”
    + usual anti-Randi ravings :¬(

  1. 56
    The Return of Mabus/Markuze? | Dispatches from the Culture Wars

    [...] Wagner notes that Dennis Markuze (aka David Mabus) may have violated the terms of the probation he received [...]

  2. 57
    Dennis Markuze arrested… again. | The Atheist Experience

    [...] it will stick this time? Share this:EmailDiggTwitterFacebookRedditStumbleUpon Posted in Events, Announcements & Meta [...]

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