Trolling with niceness


Texas pastor and Jabba the Hut impersonator John Hagee really, really doesn’t like atheists. Oh, why mince words? He fucking hates our guts, because we exist, period. He wants us all to leave and stop messing up his glorious vision of a fascist theocratic Amerika. Aww, poor ugly baby!

This is a mean, horrible little man who wakes up every morning full of fear, anger and hate; spends his day immersed in fear, anger and hate; and goes to bed seething with fear, anger and hate. What must it be like to be him? The thought of spending one day of my life as John Hagee, thinking the way he thinks (if you can even call the process that), fills me with the kind of light-headed revulsion I feel at the prospect of eating a cockroach pizza. Then again — and I mean this unironically — isn’t it wonderful to know our mere presence on the planet is a large part of the cause of his misery?

Here’s an idea. Let’s make a habit of reminding Hagee that we’re here, we’re American, we’re godless, we’re fabulous, get used to it. Here’s the contact form at his website. It’s unlikely he’ll see any emails sent, because nasty men like him like to isolate themselves from all but a carefully selected, doting inner circle. But it’ll be fun for whomever’s reading it, I’m sure.

Don’t be mean. Don’t be rude. Don’t use four-letter words. Send a little sweet snark thanking Hagee for the touching and gentle way in which he expressed the sentiments of John 13:34 towards his fellow Americans, who just happen not to believe as he does. Then regale him with how proud you are to be American, and how being a godless American is so much better, because atheism linked with humanism makes you compassionate towards all classes of people, and not simply hateful and vindictive towards anyone in your selected out-group. Then let him know about the wonderful things you hope to do to contribute towards making America a better place, by staying in it, and fighting for it, so that one day America is a place free from the shackles of ignorance and fear that religion binds it in, a place where we can move the human race forward with science and knowledge and reason and equality.

I’m sure it will just make their day. Think of it, atheists, being happy! Dogs and cats living together! What is Amerrrrikkkka coming to, baby Jebus!?

It will definitely make yours.

(PS: If you send something, copy-paste it in the comments to share with everyone.)

Comments

  1. HK says

    When someone is trying to demonize you, the best response is to show them how polite, kind, & intelligent you are. Even if you don’t get through to the individual you are arguing with, the people around you will see one person saying mean, hateful, stupid things and another person responding with sense, politeness, & kindness, and make up their own minds. In RL, when I respond this way to homophobia, I’ve found that people around me have chimed in and had my back.

  2. Benjamin C. says

    Hello Mr. Hagee,
    I would like to thank you for the touching and gentle way in which you expressed the sentiments of John 13:34 towards your fellow Americans who just happen not to believe as you do. I am a very proud American citizen and a veteran of our proud Marine Corps. I am also a godless American and was an atheist in a foxhole. Being a godless American is so much better, because atheism when linked with humanism, like many atheists are proud of, allows us to be compassionate towards all classes of people, and not simply hateful and vindictive towards anyone outside your carefully selected, doting inner circle.
    I have personally made this country a better place with my past military service, something I’m sure you haven’t done, and by my current service as an educator in public schools. I am a proud history and science teacher and am even more proud when I get to teach the facts of evolution and how the universe began. Seeing the children’s eyes light up when I teach them how our atoms came from exploding stars out in space is so much more rewarding than letting them sit in any kind of Sunday school. Just like I did in my military service, I am fighting to make America a better place for freedom, freedom from the shackles of ignorance and fear that religion binds it in, a place where we can move the human race forward with science, knowledge, reason, and equality for everyone.

    Here’s to you finding your sense of reason and striving for equality!
    -Benjamin Capra

  3. says

    I love the intelligent treatment because it so often leads to me being called arrogant and such by the individual I am having a discussion with.

  4. grumpyoldfart says

    The thought of spending one day of my life as John Hagee, thinking the way he thinks (if you can even call the process that), fills me with the kind of light-headed revulsion

    He doesn’t think. He only thinks he’s thinking.

  5. Ann McCann says

    It always surprises me that someone can call themselves Christian, and ignore the commandment Jesus gave in John 13:34.
    I’m an ordained, interfaith minister, working within a program that feeds the homeless, a hospice volunteer, and a volunteer hospital chaplain – and a Humanist and atheist. I’m an atheist, and I feed the poor, visit the sick, and comfort the dying. And you call yourself a Christian, yet bubble with hate and tell me to leave America – my country with freedom and justice for all – even you. Perhaps if you want to live in a theocracy you should move to Saudi Arabia or see how your hate plays in Israel?

  6. athyco says

    (A new commandment I give unto you,) “If our belief in God offends you, move!” (That ye love one another;) “There are planes leaving every hour on the hour going every place on planet Earth. Get on one!” (as I have loved you,) “We don’t want you and we won’t miss you, I promise you.” (that ye also love one another.)

    Mr. Hagee, I’m sure you recognize your quoted words interspersed with John 13:34. I am an American atheist who can easily say that she’s never felt enough revulsion for any law-abiding group of fellow citizens to taunt them to leave our country–our home. All Americans–theist or atheist–who can say the same have, I believe, a place to stand proudly, sir.

    I have retired from teaching in public schools, and for 25 of those 30 years, I was atheist. Yet it was from the strength of our Constitution that I’ve stood for the rights of all students to be secure in their beliefs. I declared my atheism, sir, only to the ones among them who had reason to need my example to know they were not alone. On the other hand, the children who wanted to form a prayer group at break and lunch found me on watch at the edges of their gathering, to keep other groups of children–vastly peopled by other denominations of Christians–from disrupting them. I’ve explained and modeled year after year for decades that one’s responsibility during the morning pledge of allegiance is only not to be disruptive, and parents whose children suffered from cutting remarks and ostracism due to their religious beliefs thanked me. Children, whether they professed a faith or not, knew that they could express themselves to me without fear, could seek my help and protection, could expect no gatekeeping religious questions in the back of my mind to determine their worthiness.

    Thirty years of 150 children a year would have missed me. I am disappointed that you seem shortsighted enough not to see it.

  7. Emptyell says

    AKA: Thought like activity.

    Similar to “food like substance” but less fulfilling.

  8. tosspotovich says

    “John, with regard to your recent appeal to export your atheists I’m giving you the perspective of a potential customer. As an Australian I’d welcome your enlightened countrymen and women. However in the interests of retaining our elite level of awesomeness I kindly request that hateful bigots such as yourself, please stay at home.”

  9. HK says

    @Bill, if people are saying that you come across as arrogant, may I humbly suggest that you can temper that impression by admitting the limited nature of your own knowledge with statements like “I could be totally wrong about this, but based on the evidence I’ve seen…”, and so on. I know that always makes a good impression on me when I hear someone speaking in that manner.

  10. MichaelD says

    Well you did send Ken Ham their way so I think they can send a bigot or 2 back ;p

  11. brianmurray says

    Jabba the Hut impersonator

    Really? Did you just call him fat? Is that necessary?

    poor ugly baby

    …. I expect better of this blog.

    Otherwise, sure, he is a petty person. But the petty name calling really isn’t becoming of this otherwise respectable blog.

  12. Scriptureofme says

    “Dear mr. Hagee,

    I would like to thank you for coming out and expressing all the hate towards atheism boiling inside you. Not only do we know about it now, but together we actually can try and make something to fix it. It is clear that you have some emotional hangups and deep issues within you, but it’s OK. Remember that it is never too late to try and make a difference. Heck, you might die tomorrow – but today you can still own up to your own denied feelings and be the brave, caring man I know you still are deep inside.

    I’ve never been religious myself, rather a lifelong atheist. Religion always to me seemed like a way to avoid true feelings and true interactions with oneself and the world. And although it never caused me any personal problems with myself, I do realize that many people still suffer from it. Thank you for reminding me, and remember: you just keep on reaching for help, and I’m sure that you’ll find caring individuals to help you on your way. Imagine, just a few years of love and caring, and oney day you might be just like me. And on that day, we as a collective humanity will not only have bettered america – but the whole world.”

  13. Scriptureofme says

    Sorry for the double posting, but just a few disclaimers:

    I don’t really know if I think that way about religion, it’s just something that popped in to my head and I didn’t bother to think it through. Also, it does come off as just a little bit arrogant that the world would be better if Mr. Hagee was more like me – but maybe he’ll never forgive me anyway, so meh.

    You caught me at my weakest and got me to post here for the first time, and to contact a minister whom i’ve never even heard about previously no less, so I guess you and the world got what was coming for you :P

    Yeah, got a little carried away there.

  14. Mary2 says

    Nah, I loved it. Very gentle, sweet and helpful. Exactly the way they often talk to us – before mentioning that we are going to burn in hell for all eternity.

  15. Barbara Noon says

    I listened to your sermon and felt you were a bit too limiting in who you think can be in this country. I am 55 years old, born in Detroit to a father who worked at General Motors for 32 years and a mother who devoted her life to teaching school children. I feel I lived the American dream, even though we lived in a small house in the city. I love my country and don’t even have the desire to travel outside of it. I’m afraid I do not plan to leave. You see, I am an atheist. I have always thought religion did not make sense. I belong in America, which was founded on freedom – and is free. I try to make America better and the entire world better by being vegan, educating others, working to improve the environment and helping other people. I am a good citizen. I do not need your approval to live here; I just thought you would like to know that we all are here because we like free speech, but wish your message were more unifying and accepting. Thank you for bringing this subject of acceptance to others’ attention in your own way.

  16. sosw says

    Doesn’t help. Many (perhaps even most) people regard simply questioning their assertions as arrogant. Indeed questioning is considered worse than simply making counter-assertions, simply because having to struggle to keep insisting on their point feels bad.

    Even outside of religion, people tend to have strong emotional attachments to many of the things they think are true. Conceptions about facts seem to be psychologically similar to opinions, which is probably why critical thinking needs to be done consciously.

    Many of my disagreements with people boil down to me eventually asking “Why do you insist on asserting a strong claim on a matter of fact if you don’t have any evidence that your assertion is true?” after them responding to queries for evidence with simply repeating their assertion with even more conviction and emotion (yet not dropping the subject). It isn’t arrogant in tone or content, but socially it is essentially being an asshole because I’m making someone feel bad. It’s even worse because their arguments don’t make me feel nearly as bad (somewhat annoyed or frustrated, but not deeply insulted or internally conflicted).

    While I’m certainly no accommodationist when it comes to advocacy, I recognize that on a personal, social level, no matter how right you are, and regardless of tone, simply being persistent in correcting or questioning someone is often bad form.

    In a relationship it can be especially bad – you should be sensitive to your partner’s feelings, regardless of how correct you are on the facts – even downright sadistic. On the other hand, while I admit to having been equally persistent on more trivial topics, I doubt that I would’ve persuaded my ex-gf that her homophobic misconceptions were false without being persistent to the point of being an asshole. It didn’t reverse her homophobia overnight, but she did gradually come around to becoming strongly supportive of gay rights over the next couple of years.

  17. says

    brianmurray writes: “Really? Did you just call him fat? Is that necessary?”

    Completely necessary.

    “I expect better of this blog.”

    You have to watch those “expectations,” especially when you expect a blog posted on by lots of different people — all with different posting styles and different senses of humor — to never offend your apparently delicate sensibilities.

    In this case, the blog post was made by Martin, the guy who brought us such classics as Ray Comfort being “The World’s Dumbest Christian” (trademark). I can only speak for myself here, but I find Martin’s humor funny for the most part, and I enjoy reading him insult disgusting people who, in my estimation, are barely worth an ounce of respect. If you don’t, that’s fine, but there’s no need to pretend that your preferences are “better” and demand that the things you read live up to your “expectations.”

    I think it’s quite amusing to point out that a hateful dirtbag like Hagee looks very much like Jabba the Hut — not just because he’s fat (though that certainly contributes to it greatly) but because his face actually does kind of look like Jabba.

    File it under “funny cause it’s true.”

  18. brianmurray says

    I’m never a fan of ad-hominem attacks on people, even if they are “deserved”. I would be equally disgusted if he called Sarah Palin a “bimbo”, so I don’t don’t think its ok to call someone “jabba”. But, maybe you are OK with that. I’m not.

  19. HK says

    Dear Mr. Hagee,
    I did not choose to become an atheist. At the age of 14, I found that no matter how hard I tried, I was unable to believe any more; reading the Bible and sending out unanswered prayers only served to further my painful doubts, no matter how hard I tried. At the time, atheism seemed as frightening & miserable to me as it apparently seems to you.

    But I grew up. I kept reading, learning, & meeting new people, and I discovered that over time not only did I no longer feel the need to rely on religion, but I actually felt that I was better off without it. I found that my moral actions could be based on logic & compassion rather than dogma, and I found that I was happier this way, and the world made more sense to me also.

    Like all Atheists, I am surrounded by loved ones who are religious, and I don’t think I would take that away from them if I could. They are good people, and their faith is a part of that; they can no more help believing than I can help not believing. We understand and respect each other’s differences, even love each other all the more for it.

    There are many countries in this world where one is not allowed the freedom to practice a religion that is not approved by the state. This country is not one of them. The reason for that is the first amendment to our Bill of Rights, which states that the government will not and cannot establish a compulsory state religion, or prohibit the free exercise of one’s religion of choice. I think this was very wise, and is one of the things that makes this country great. That is why I stand by my country, why I love living here.

    This is my country, sir. It’s my home. I’m damn glad that it is. I pay my “membership fees” like everybody else.

    The thing that makes this country great, sir, is that it’s not a Christian country, or a Muslim country, or a Communist or an Atheist country,- America is a Free Country.

    Sure, that’s not always the case, because human beings & our organizations are flawed and become corrupt, but we have democracy, we have the ability to fight to keep our freedom. That is why I stay here, and fight for it to be the best country that it can be.

    Sir, I am perfectly happy for you to stay right here in America and say whatever you want to say, believe whatever you want to believe, and vote how you want to vote, and I would defend to the death your right to do so. I would also defend to the death my right to do so.

    If you want to live in a place where everyone is forced to live according to your particular interpretation of the Bible, perhaps you are the one who should leave, because America is for everyone, always has been (at heart), and if I have any say in it, always will be.

    Sincerely,
    Helen Kiernan

  20. HK says

    apparently the first message I send them reached them as a blank field somehow. so in my revision I included this paragraph:

    Mr. Hagee, I humbly suggest that I am a good person. I certainly don’t steal, don’t lie & haven’t killed or raped anyone. I do not discriminate against any group of people based on their race, gender, or religion. I strive to be kind to others. I vote, I pay taxes. I work as a journalist and as a nanny for some young kids. I have done good works that I can boast of; When my aunt passed I worked for my uncle caring for his seven young children (of 11, some were older), all day all Summer, with no expectation of payment. I help the homeless. I do good works not out of any fear of any gods, but out of love for my fellow human beings. I don’t need God to be good.

  21. HK says

    thanks Dogma. My friends call me Hel, but I didn’t think using that nickname would go over well with the Rev ;D

  22. HK says

    @sosw I think it does help, at least in terms of your own pride and the way that others view you. When most people argue, they don’t care about learning or logic, they care about winning. I used to be like that myself. There is a biological basis to it, as there is to people believing things not based on evidence but emotion. We all do it, some more than others, regardless of whether you’re atheist or not, it is an innate quality in all human beings.

  23. strangelove says

    Dear Mr. Hagee,

    you may have been a good pastor, but now you’re Bantha fodder.

  24. Rory says

    It would be an ad hominem if the argument was “John Hagee is a fat bastard, therefore, his arguments are invalid.” Since this is not what was done, I don’t think ad hom really applies.

    While I don’t claim to speak for all fat people in America (though by mass I’m probably speaking for at least a few of the skinny folk) I wasn’t particularly offended by it, for what that’s worth.

  25. says

    Your concern is noted, concern troll.

    Oh, did I just call you a name? No more gruel for me then.

    You must be new here, if you haven’t gotten accustomed to the average snark level in my posts.

    Did I call Hagee an ugly baby? Yes, I did. Because he has a ugliness that comes from deep inside, that fills his life with anger and hate. It would be pointless not to take note of it. You’re free, of course, not to think that there’s anything ugly about demanding that anyone who doesn’t believe as you do should leave the country. But don’t expect a lot of sympathy here for that.

  26. Jim Morrison says

    My letter to John Hagee:

    Dear Mr. Hagee,

    I wanted to thank you for your touching, gentle speech of acceptance that spilled from your lips about atheists. How innovative of you to be able to pick out of the bible what suits your message of hate and bigotry and completely leaving off the table passages such as the one found in John 13:34.

    But why stop with just kicking atheists out of the country?? If you are a man of god like you say you are , why not invoke the words of 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 and have all atheists killed? What’s a little blood on your hands if it is the hand of god controlling them?

    I suppose by now you can sense a bit of sarcasm in my statements. That is because I am appalled my the message of hate you are spreading. You sir are sad. You are hateful, immoral, arrogant human being who has no business having sway over the mindless sheep that blindly follow your message of inequality. I am an American!! I was born here and this is my home and I am an atheist. I have friends who were born here who are Muslim and Hindu, Agnostic, Wiccan, and Buddhist this is ALL of our country. And this is NOT just a Christian nation. This nation was founded by those who were escaping religious persecution of any type and believed that ALL men were created equal and that as an American we are all afforded equal rights to think, say, and believe what we think is right. I as an Atheist would NEVER tell someone they didn’t have a right to be here because the believed in a god. It sickens me that in this day and age people like you still exist. How are we to ever progress as the human race with people like you hindering that progress with messages that would have others judging their fellow man. Remember, Matt. 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” Well it seems that you are doing an awful job of following the positive messages in the bible and go right for the negative ones, just as most of the Right-wing fundamentalists do.

    And the founding fathers did not add “In God We Trust” on our Money, or “Under God” in our anthem. Those things were added over 100 years later during the cold war. It is funny how god is always inserted into patriotism during times of war. It seems that your brand of Christianity always seems to rear it’s ugly head in times of violence.

    My point is that this country is a Nation of all colors, religions, races, backgrounds, and even sexual orientations. And it is also a nation of atheists and agnostics. What makes our county so great is that we accept EVERYONE. And you are destroying the spirit this country was founded on with your hateful, fundamentalist rhetoric!

    In closing I have a little message for you. It is inscribed on one of our most precious symbols of freedom , the statue of liberty. Maybe you should read this before the next time your enormous ego jumps on the stage of that mega church and your forked tongue spits hate.

    Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
    Send these, the homeless, tempest tossed,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

    Your fellow American and Non-believer,

    Jim Morrison

  27. Max Entropy says

    I’m fairly certain that John Hagee and his ilk believe that John 13:34 only applies to loving other Christians. Or only members of their own sect of Christianity. Or only members of their own congregation. Or only people in their own congregation who conform to a very narrow definition of “true Christians”.

  28. Vall says

    @ Jim Morrison

    I KNEW you didn’t die in Paris! I think you owe us a new album please.

  29. Hypatia's Daughter says

    If the Founding Father had established a state religion, I doubt it would have been Hagee’s.
    He got his pastoral training at The Assemblies of God University. The AofG denomination was founded in 1914.
    I don’t think it would have been on the FF’s list of potential candidates for official state church.

  30. mandrellian says

    Well, not quite. While we’re glad he left, we didn’t send him away. Kenny boy just realised his brand of apocalyptically stupid creo-schtick wouldn’t play, even in the little bible-belt that is Queensland, so he moved to Kentucky – which, as far as creationists eager to be separated from their money goes, is what the military would call a “target-rich environment”.

  31. mandrellian says

    I can’t speak for the author of the post, but I’m fairly confident your concern has been noted.

  32. Andrew says

    The Rev. Hagee lives in a $3 million dollar mansion. I rent an $800 apartment.

    And yet I would not trade my position with the Rev. Hagee. I would much rather be poor, but earn an honest living, and be free of supernatural beliefs, than be a wealthy charlatan who has earned his money by fleecing the gullible, pretending to know the mind of God, and promoting ignorance over skepticism.

  33. jedimasteryoda says

    I wonder if Mr. Hankee’s a bit concerned that those who he wishes away are having a bit of a negative affect on his tithe hoard. Easy to be outraged at the message, but maybe there’s something encoraging in the motivation for it.

  34. HK says

    yuck. Just got this response back:

    Dear Helen,

    Our staff at John Hagee Ministries reviewed your letter. You listed reasons why you question the existence of a personal God who loves his creation.

    You describe the reasons that you became an atheist and how you are quite content not needing a religion to dictate your life. You describe how much you appreciate our country. You believe that our country is great because it is not a Christian nation, or any other denomination for that matter. Actually most serious historians agree that this country is great is because it was built on Christian principles. .

    Apparently it bothers you that Pastor Hagee is committed to sharing the saving message of the gospel of Jesus Christ with the world. Simply stated if you had ever experienced God’s forgiveness and salvation; along with the knowledge that His Holy Spirit has become a part of you, that you have eternal life (with God) you would want to share this experience with others. Pastor Hagee does not want non-believers to leave America, he wants them to come to know and experience God’s love and the gift of His salvation.

    Pastor Hagee’s views on these subjects are explained clearly in his daily teachings broadcast over radio and television. It is apparent you disagree with the concept of a loving God who cares for his people.

    We pray God will give you wisdom and spiritual understanding.

    .

    Sincerely,

    Edward Martinez

    John Hagee Ministries

  35. HK says

    my response (sorry it’s long & I don’t know the HTML to shorten it)
    Dear Mr. Martinez,

    Thank you for your prompt response, and for your close attention and kind words.

    You misunderstand my reasons for writing, so I’d like to clarify. It does not bother me in the least that Mr. Hagee or anyone else wants to preach a particular religious message. In fact, I understand, appreciate, respect & support anyone expressing their religious beliefs in any way they see fit, even if I do not necessarily agree with everything they say, so long as it is not hateful towards any person or group of people.

    Please understand that what bothered me was Mr. Hagee’s words in a sermon, which he put out to the world, speaking directly to atheists, and has since therefore become a matter of public record. Perhaps you are unaware of what he said. Here is a link to the video, which speaks for itself:

    http://www.examiner.com/video/hagee-tells-atheists-to-leave-the-country-b-c-they-are-not-wanted-won-t-be-missed

    This bothers me for two reasons. First, because he is basically saying that I should leave my country, and that’s gonna definitely get my fur up anyway. Second, because he suggests that I should pay for his religion to govern me. I have no interest in being forced to pay for your religion, or anyone else’s, to be my master. If you choose to serve your Lord, that is totally 100% A-OK with me, but you have no more right to govern me based on it than a Muslim person would have a right to establish Sharia law in this country, or an Atheist to forbid religious practice. The point is that we have all decided to live together in freedom in this country, and that means that when we are all paying for a service, that service should not be based on one of our religious ideas, but should be for everyone.

    Further, I do not think that you can claim all the principles which people of many different faiths, and no faith at all, have created in the long history of this country to your specific religion, and I doubt very much that every serious historian would agree with that statement. American values such as Democracy, Freedom of Speech, Capitalism, Diversity, Freedom of Religion, Freedom from Religious Oppression, Right to a Fair Trial, etc. are not precisely Christian in nature but moreso simply Human in nature, deriving from many different philosophies and traditions. I think it is frankly rather insulting to all the Deists, Muslims, Agnostics, Pagans, & others who were involved with all these different ideas throughout human history to discredit their contributions to their development, or to suggest that one needs to be a member of your specific religion to think of them.

    You speak as if I have never experience religious feelings, but that is a false assumption as well. As a former devout Christian raised in a devoutly Christian home, I absolutely felt as if I had a close personal relationship with a God throughout my childhood. Again, I did not stop believing in God by choice; at the age of 14, against my own will, despite going to church every Sunday, reading the Bible regularly, & praying many times daily, I simply stopped being able to believe in God. I did try for many years to believe again, learning of different religions and so forth, and I am certainly not close-minded, but I am also okay with the fact that I cannot believe, as you did graciously acknowledge yourself, I am a happy, healthy, & good moral person as an atheist. I am also someone who respects religious people. I have no interest in converting you, and I have no interest in being converted.

    Thank you. -Helen Kiernan

  36. HK says

    haha indeed, but cheer up, unless you got like three other dudes crammed in witcha, $800 ain’t that poor dude.

  37. mentaljewelry says

    Dear Pastor Hagee,

    Thank you for the touching and gentle way in which you expressed the sentiments of John 13:34 towards your fellow Americans in your recent sermon. As a mom, a voter, a devoted wife, and a financial industry professional, I feel that my atheism has little to do with a desire to leave the country.
    I, and many of my fellow atheists, are not offended by folks’ belief in God so much as we’re offended by hateful and vindictive speech used against others in the name of God.

    My humanism makes me compassionate towards all classes of people, and motivated to contribute towards making America a better place.

    I intend to stay in my country, and fight for tolerance, progress, and equal rights, so that one day we can be a place free from the shackles of ignorance and fear that religion binds it in; a place where we can move the human race forward with science and knowledge and reason and equality.

    Regards from your fellow citizen,
    Shelley

  38. mentaljewelry says

    Hmm…I received an email from JHM team stating my comments were not received, only my contact information. I re-submitted and received the same email. Both emails say, “what can we do for you?” but they’re from a no-reply email box.

  39. Coragyps says

    I drove across Mr Hagee’s huge parking lot a few days ago – I didn’t know it was Hagee’s until a passenger in the car pointed it out. And I was so polite that I didn’t even stop to take a shit at the front door. But I guess I should have…..

  40. Gene Mille says

    Mr. Hagee,

    I have recently been introduced to your views on those of us in this country who do not believe in your version of your god as outlined in a recent video that has appeared online. I guess it should come as no surprise that you have chosen to cherry pick which verses of your “holy” book you choose to embrace and which to ignore. Typically, I see this happen when some part of the Old Testament conflicts with a more modern interpretation, but I can’t for the life of me understand why you’ve chosen to ignore John 13:34.

    I am an American citizen. I was born in this country, and can trace my lineage to as far back a 1628 in New York City. I served this country as a proud member of the United States Air Force for 13 years and spent every single day of that service as a foxhole atheist. I dedicated my service to allowing you to take to the pulpit and declare to the world your ignorance. For that, I make no apologies. I also make no apologies for being an atheist, I am a skeptic, a humanist, a son, a husband, and a father.

    While it may be tempting to turn your own words back to you and say, “If our disbelief in God offends you, move! There are planes leaving every hour on the hour going every place on planet Earth. Get on one! We don’t want you and we won’t miss you, I promise you,” I won’t. You, sir, are free to believe and however you choose to believe just as we are free to NOT believe in those same things. You are free to be as ignorant, closed-minded, repugnant, condescending, illogical, irrational, and hateful as you choose to be – and we are free to call you out on doing so.

    You see, the beautiful thing about this country – something you and your ilk never seem to understand – is that from many, we are indeed, one whether we trust in a god or gods or not.

    Yours in reason,

  41. Ann McCann says

    Same thing happened to me: the second time I edited, expanded, re-submitted – and got the same reply.

  42. Jerome Haltom says

    I’m an American. I was born an American. I was also, and still am, an atheist. Since our country was founded with the principal of freedom of religion, and you seem to dislike it so, maybe you should leave.

  43. Hairy Chris, blah blah blah etc says

    Rory has it right…

    “You’re wrong because you look like Jabba the Hutt” = Ad hom, bad logic, no!
    “You’re wrong and you look like Jabba the Hutt” = Strictly an insult, no logic broken, dilute to personal taste etc, etc.

  44. BobFromLI says

    Having gone to Hagee’s website, I note the number of ways he wants the reader to donate. Somehow,I remember Jesus taking a vow of poverty. Wasn’t he the same guy who went after the moneychangers? Nah, that can’t be right: its all about the money and the enrichment for enrichment’s sake.

    Lest Hagee forget: nearly every one of the Founders were either atheists or agnostic. Notably, Jefferson used his own bible and only Adams professed to believe in a god. Hmmmm.

  45. says

    Atheists themselves are the proof that God does indeed exist.
    Unless you consider your fight and arguments to prove he doesn’t exist are just your boredom, acting out in a complete waste of your time.
    What purpose does it serve to prove he doesn’t exist, unless in fact he really Does?
    Why spend all the time and effort required to try and prove your right? Unless he does in fact exist.
    If God did not already exist and was able to be created, then he would in fact now exist. Because you yourselves would have created him in the guise of your enemy, and the entity that is the object of your despise.

  46. says

    Ehhhh I think calling him fat is out of line due to splash damage too Martin. It’s not really funny or right when Conservapedia does it and don’t think it’s valid now. Our side has a lot of fat golly giants who I don’t think we should splash with F-bomb strikes.

  47. Kazim says

    Brilliant argument, let me try it!

    Christian apologists on atheist blogs are proof that God does not exist. What purpose does it serve to prove God does exists, unless in fact he really doesn’t? Why spend all the time and effort required to try and prove you’re right? Unless he doesn’t in fact exist.

    I like that. It’s an appealing way to minimize work, saying that the fact that anyone disagrees with you automatically makes you correct. Thanks for the technique.

  48. Jdog says

    Because the theists who don’t want to impose their religious views on everyone don’t do much (if anything) to stop the ones that do. If your rationale for telling everyone that gay marriage, abortion, intelligent methods of birth control, non-religious addiction recovery organizations, etc, etc should be something that people who want them cannot legally have access to, then you’d better be able to make your case with good evidence and rational thought. Best of luck in that endeavor, because noone’s done it yet.

    Furthermore, if you had a good friend or family member who was wasting their life in pursuit of the Tooth Fairy, wouldn’t you try to reason with them? From the American atheists’ point of view, we’re surrounded by Tooth Fairyists. Sometimes we try to reason with them in lieu of grabbing them by the shoulders and shouting “YOU ARE BATSHIT FUCKING INSANE” in their faces.

  49. Andrew says

    Hey, at least Hagee hasn’t physically molested any children. So you’ve gotta give him that.

  50. says

    Ever so welcome and quite the opposite, I have nothing to prove to you. Either you believe or you don’t I could care less I am not a bleeding liberal, that thinks all souls are worth saving. Most of your souls are not worth saving. But you are worth the chance to be saved.
    Most atheists will stand by their beliefs and refuse to believe in God they will do everything in their power to convince me that God does not exist. Well that is quite impossible, I choose to believe and I believe enough that I will allow you the chance to dissuade me, without disparaging your ancestry color etc. My God says you have a Right to not believe in him or mercy and justice. My God says you have a right to hate him. My God says you have a right to worship Satan if that is your desire. My God says that if you Choose to call your God Allah and blow up planes that’s your right.
    My God says if that is what you choose to do then so be it, He is not responsible for this one or that one not hearing the still small voice that is the Prince of Peace, the God of Judah.
    It does not have to be your God, but you will not change my mind it’s My God. And he exists in my Mind body and Soul.You choose however you want to believe and personally i think your beyond redemption. And I really don’t know why I am bothering. But My God told me to speak here therefore they cannot say my children did not give them a chance for salvation on judgement day. But only God truly knows why your heart is so hard against him. Maybe just maybe God pissed you off at him so he would somebody to send to hell one day.
    I have no clue what your motivations for being an atheist are, and frankly I do not care. But maybe just maybe, someone is walking the fence here and watching us, and trying to decide which Heaven or Hell Believe or Not believe. and their Soul is in the balance. As an Intelligent individual your going to have to give them a better argument than he just doesn’t or flip flopping my words inserting doesn’t in place of does.There just may be someone here on the verge of deciding, Him or None like you did one day and he best argument you can give me is I give a good argument?

  51. says

    Now your acting like one of those Allah worshipping get 70 virgins in heaven and they will be a virgin again tommorrow you sexed em but they are still a virgin and everyone else is an infidel. Type of person. your going to have to appeal tomy sense of intellect, before you persuade me to put my down my belief in my God.

  52. says

    and really there is no Comparison between God and the Tooth Fairy, that is like comparing a horse drawn cart 300 years ago to an Astronaut, be realistic in your arguments with me I am a reasoned Man. You cannot dissuade me but I offer you the chance to at least,try. Nonsensical verbiages and threats will not do the trick.

  53. says

    I am not here to discuss Hagee or others, I am here to discuss God. you talk to me about me or you talk to me about God or you talk tome about yourself and why you think God let you down and now your an atheist. Convince me I should be an atheist because he doesnt exist. dont go down the cuz this preacher is gay, or was a whore or was a pervert. road i will close my mind to anything you have to say as fast as the media shut down all of the Kennedy Conspiracy theories. Convince me be a Man or Woman, not s vitriol spewing mouthpiece.

  54. says

    I thought atheists were supposed to be enlightened and educated people so far all your showing me is about as much enlightnment asa black man gets at a KKK rally. Enlighten me and put your prejudices down.

  55. says

    Yeah I am always impressed when people use my exact manner and words to impress me I really love it when I am totally mimiced. I try to promote them a higher standard, oh by the way I comb my hair this way and i put my books on the shelves just so.

    All of this is not convincing me God does not exist, be intelligent PROVE it to ME

  56. says

    That isn’t even intelligent conversation that is just you all up in wikipedia looking for long words to confuse people into thinking your intelligent.I am not convinced God does not exist. Convince me if you are intelligent enough to run through wikipedia. Justify yourself.

  57. says

    In case you weren’t aware, John Hagee does bear a notable resemblance to Jabba the Hutt. There are millions of fat people in the world who do not, in fact, resemble that delightful character. Hagee may be fat, or he may not, but if he were thin, he’d still have Jabba’s scowly face down.

    So your tone trolling is noted.

  58. StevoR says

    Prove to us S/He /Them/It does.

    The Burden of Proof is on those making extraordinary claims to back those claims with extraordinary evidence and saying there’s any God let alone your specific one is certainly an extraordinary claim.

  59. StevoR says

    The thought of spending one day of my life as John Hagee, thinking the way he thinks (if you can even call the process that), fills me with the kind of light-headed revulsion I feel at the prospect of eating a cockroach pizza.

    Cockroaches are considered a delicacy in some countries -Malaysia I think being one of them.

    Insects can be a good source of healthy protein.

    Irrelevant pedantic side note.

    I think Hagee is much worse than that.

  60. StevoR says

    Israel is a democracy with popularly elected officials – NOT a theocracy.

    For other theocracies try Iran, the Taliban ruled areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan and many other Islamist Jihadistans

  61. Mary2 says

    For God’s sake (pardon the pun) will you please learn the difference between ‘your’ and ‘you’re’ – then you might sound slightly more intelligent!?! Probably not, but at leasr you will have learnt something.

  62. Mary2 says

    Note to self: snideness about grammer probably works better if you don’t have typos in your own post :-/

  63. Ken says

    I became an atheist two years ago, and it was the best decision I ever made. I actually studied for the ministry, and found out Christianity is rotten to the core. So now I am a humanist, freethinker, and have no religion. I’m free. I can love whom I please. I’m happy most of the time, much more than when I was trying to appease an evil deity. I’m just writing to tell you we aren’t going away. In fact, we’re getting stronger every day. We are part of America, and one day we will be America. So keep spreading your message. The wiorld needs more atheists.

  64. Tony says

    All of this is not convincing me God does not exist, be intelligent PROVE it to ME

    You’re going to have to wait your turn. Right now, the Gnu Atheist movement has shifted focus. With the success of THOR and THE AVENGERS
    we fear people may soon turn their backs on Christianity (and perhaps Judaism and Islam too) and worship the Norse Gods. The popularity of their savior-Thor; a god cast down to Earth in mortal form; forced to experience the world as a human before facing destruction and regaining his godly nature-rivals that of Jesus Christ* We have additional problems to deal with. The rise of 1st United Norse Church has reminded Americans that there are days of the week named after Norse gods! If too many Americans get sucked into this mythology and begin treating it as if it’s real (I dread the day when I hear a young child ask their parents if xe’s dead goldfish will be in Valhalla), there’s no telling what chaos would erupt.
    *(at the height of this largely fictional characters’ fame, people actually believed things like turning water to wine, eating Savior Flesh Flavored Saltines was the cool thing to do, and women shouldn’t speak in church; worse still, people routinely ignored the evidence in their own holy book that Yahweh loves him some slavery, has an affinity for genocide, and actively condones the raping of women…).
    While we take a break (exposing the harmful effects of religious belief-especially the morally repugnant YahWeh-is an exhausting task; thankfully, we’re nearing the finish line) feel free to read Martin’s post again. This time, I have full confidence that you’ll succeed at reading for comprehension. You probably had a bad day or were sick or something. Most people I know would have known from reading the original post that this wasn’t about trying to disprove god’s existence. In addition, most people understand that the burden of proof rests on those making the claim (this means that the believer of Thor, Zeus, Heracles, Aphrodite, Baldur, or Isis is responsible for proving they exist; the non believer does not have to prove anything as they are not making a claim; no belief=/=making a claim). Finally, you must be one of the few people left on Earth who actually thinks you can prove something doesn’t exist (hundreds of years ago, peddlers of various mythologies told all the other myths to prove their divine beings lacked existence; no proof was ever found of course, but in time people started to realize that you can’t prove fairies don’t exist. Or Aliens. Or Superman. Or Quetzalcoatl. Or Osiris. Or Dionysus. Or Odin.

    P.S. If you’re looking for proof against god’s existence, or intelligent arguments that seriously question religious belief, you’ll find them quite easy by using a thing called Google.

  65. Tony says

    Ken:

    The wiorld needs more atheists.

    I would amend this slightly. The world needs more people to embrace atheism, true. But that’s just a first step. Next is discovering a real world system of morality and ethics that is not supernaturally informed.

  66. Tony says

    and really there is no Comparison between God and the Tooth Fairy

    From the perspective of atheists, there is no more evidence for the existence of the Tooth Fairy than there is for god (and there are important similarities…they both are invisible, inaudible, undetectable, and neither has a measurable effect on the world). That’s why the comparison is incredibly valid. Since you don’t agree, I shall assume you’ve researched both to determine which is real and which isn’t. So I have a few questions:

    1- What are the properties of the Tooth Fairy that make it (them?) different from god?
    2- Who determines those differences?
    3- How does one go about acquiring evidence for the existence of god or the Tooth Fairy?
    4- How does one determine which forms of evidence are valid, and which are tainted by human bias?
    5- Given that the Tooth Fairy is much nicer than god, shouldn’t people worship him/her/them? After all has the Tooth Fairy ever committed genocide, sanctioned slavery, condoned rape, or called for the bashing of babies’ heads?
    6- What is the actual evidence for the existence of god? For the Tooth Fairy?

  67. says

    Dude, if it’s really necessary for you in order to keep the fires lit under this moral indignation you’ve got going on to find it more offensive that I made a joke about John Hagee looking like Jabba the Hutt than it was for Hagee to declare all atheists persona non grata in his bold vision of a theocratic Christian America, then have at it. I wouldn’t dream of taking that away from you.

  68. tosspotovich says

    Mohegan, the qualities of God you describe here bear a striking resemblance to those of a non-existent god. Surely you realise that the burden of proof is upon the believer. How about providing your most compelling argument and supporting body of evidence? Would you accept assertions of bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster on faith? If not, then you already have some understanding of the atheist position.

  69. says

    Why do you think it is okay to insult someone based on their body size or shape?

    When you insult someone for being fat you aren’t just talking about that specific person, you are adding to the cultural stigma that every other fat person experiences. There is also the fact that almost no women eat normally because of the fear of fat that exists in society, a major cause of disordered eating, and it stems from attitudes like yours being popular.

    There isn’t anything wrong with being fat. No one needs you to approve of their body, it isn’t any of your business. Dismissing this as concern trolling is bs, fat people are denied employment and health care based on their weight, and they are also regularly harassed by strangers and peers. Fat kids are bullied all the time and often told it is their fault. Adding to that stigma, as you have done with your comment, isn’t acceptable.

  70. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    Actually I think what Ing was getting at is that it’d be awesome if you could get out your important message about Hagee in a way that doesn’t alienate people who’ve been mocked as fat and/or ugly.

    Typically, bloggers don’t want part of their otherwise-sympathetic audience to get the feeling that “this blog’s not for people like me.” I would consider the critique you’re getting here to be valuable and informative.

  71. says

    Actually I think what Ing was getting at is that it’d be awesome if you could get out your important message about Hagee in a way that doesn’t alienate people who’ve been mocked as fat and/or ugly.

    Well, it was certainly not my desire to do that, so I can respect that request.

  72. Roscopicotrain says

    So I’m an atheist and what I do not get is that I give to charity monthly (Stollery Children’s Hospital in Edmonton, Alberta Canada really a great cause. I help people as much as possible whether it’s some thing small from holding the door open to changing a tire on the side of the road. I work full time and contribute to society. Haven’t been charged of any criminal offense’s (that I’m aware of anyways). But because I don’t believe in a “god” I’m going to hell? I think I’m an alright guy for the most part sure I’ve got drunk and stupid a couple times even tried using an ambulance as a taxi when I was too drunk to walk ( Oh college how I miss you so). But because of my lack of belief in something that cannot legitimately prove itself I’m going to “burn in hell for eternity”. Kinda sounds like b.s. to me its been 2012 years hell if I had kids and hadn’t seen them in 2012 years I’d like to go say hi.

    just my two bits
    Canadian boy Roscopicotrain

  73. Tina S says

    Um, gee, thank you for your sweet consideration? Thank you for reinforcing my becoming an atheist with said consideration?

    And if you really, really, truly want me and mine to leave, I will gladly accept five million dollars to settle all debts and have enough to move, buy a home outright and settle happily in England without any money worries for the rest of my life and my son’s.

    Thank you.

  74. Tina S says

    Good Heavens, dear, I asked God to help me become a better Christian and He helped me become an atheist!!

  75. Vladimir Vdovic says

    Used the contact link you put in your post.

    “Thank you for the kind words mr. Hagee. I only wished to inform you that I, as an atheist, am looking forward to moving to the USA. I only wish to convey a message which is the following:
    Atheists are the same as every other person out there, we just don’t agree with arguments that aren’t represented with enough evidence, that is all.
    I do hope this does not make you think that I am immoral or unsettling.
    Cheers, Vladimir Vdović”

    Another grumpy old fool, fishing money out of people that hate others for the stupidest reasons. We could do without all these, but then again, beliefs die with their believers.

  76. David says

    Why does anyone need to convince you something does NOT exist? The burden of proof is on those making the claim that something DOEs exist. How hard is it for you to grasp this concept?

  77. Charles Green says

    Oh my, this is quite a post. And this post really makes me feel a little bit of admiration for you because you made your stand more concrete by turning the other cheek (sorry if that implies a biblical reference). I think that many in the clergy are free to express their emotions as long as there is no imposition involved.

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