…And our little lives are rounded with a sleep »« Tribute to Hitchens / Open thread on AE #740

We are beaten

The letter below is devastating to the atheist cause.  We may as well pack it in right now.
Hi.Please can you answer my question? you can contact me directly if you want,by skype or email me etc.
If the Bible has no truth about the ariel phenomenon it mentions and describes,  then why did my wife and I see and experience a close encounter with a UFO in 2004 that looked and behaved remarkably similar to that which is mentioned in ancient text particulary the Bible.I reported the experience to scientists across the world ,to the MOD here in the U.K. and it is currently being investigated by reseachers.I have always be willing to talk about ti and would even take a lie detector test to prove what happened is the truth.The UFO DID behave intelligently,it tried on two occassions to stop our vehicle with some kind of small round circles,it was toroidal,rotated illuminating the surrounding air, manifested from within a strange thick vortex of vapour,released light down upon the bonnet of our car,it was being manipulated by something we could not see,and the air was blackened.
Before this happened to us both I was a hardened skeptic as far as the UFO phenomenon is concerned,I was not a practicing Christian or anything like that and I was and still is a open minded individual who has great respect for science.
I don’t think I can even grace this with a reply, it would only cheapen it.

Comments

  1. Curt Cameron says

    Wow, a rotating toroidal UFO that tries to stop people with small circles and blackens the air, just like is described in the Bible. I think it’s near the back somewhere.

    • Celeste says

      Thanks for posting that billsheehan. I had to know the story of Ezekiel after seeing it, so I looked it up. Some people claim that it’s the first documented sighting of a UFO. Personally, I think it’s the first documented usage of heroin.

    • extian says

      That’s what I thought, too. And you can’t prove mermaids DON’T exist, so I guess he’s got us by the balls on that one!

    • sunnydale75 says

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
      You know how an irritating song gets stuck in your head and you can’t get rid of it. Thanks to your Little Mermaid quote (which was quite funny, btw), I now have that song stuck in my head (when my younger sister was a child I would babysit her and she *always* wanted to watch the Little Mermaid. This was shortly after the movie was on VHS. She wanted to learn the words to all the songs, so she and I spent *countless* hours in front of the television pausing and writing down the lyrics to each song. Even now, almost 30 years later, I still remember some of the words, most especially those of “Under the Sea”)

      Tony

  2. davidct says

    “I had an experience I can’t explain therefore Christianity is true”. Well it was good enough for Paul/Saul, so why look any further. At least Shermer had been pushing his body to the limit when he had his UFO experience.

  3. otrame says

    I had a UFO experience once. I have no idea what it was and yet never once came close to “and therefore God ….”. Never even occurred to me. I wonder why.

  4. says

    .I reported the experience to scientists across the world

    Translated: I emailed a bunch of people people.

    ,to the MOD here in the U.K. and it is currently being investigated by reseachers.

    Translated: They’re too busy researching something I saw, and can’t be replicated, to email me back.

  5. MLR says

    Ironically, the logic of “I saw lights in the sky, therefore Jesus” is not much worse than “I saw lights in the sky, therefore space aliens.” We have about as much evidence for the existence of alien spacecraft as we do for Jesus. Of course, like most skeptics, I’m totally open to the possibility of life elsewhere, even intelligent life, and even life more intelligent than us. However, that doesn’t automatically mean that super-intelligent aliens somewhere in the vastness of the cosmos get to violate relativity to come visit us. The distances are just too vast, even at the speed of light, and everything we know about the universe tells us that’s the speed limit (with only possibly neutrinos excepted). But anyway, my point is basically that this nutter’s logic is no worse (or better) than that of your average UFO fanatic. But I’m probably just preaching to the choir here… ;)

    • Kassul says

      eh, assuming these aliens havec the power to get up to relativistic speeds(eg: 99.5% of c) (and means to shield against miniscule debris given their speed) travelling around the galaxy doesn’t take all *that* much time, subjective at least.

      The time dilation can really help out, especially if you’re from a long-lived species, or one that takes a long view and is willing to go a generational route.

      A lot of time(~650 years or so?) would pass here while they’re flying to us from Betelguese, but by the clocks on their spaceship only a few decades. With good reclamation facilities and sources of energy, that’s not too hard to imagine. Nothing says they have to be starting out hundreds of light years away either, nor doing it in one big jump(though obviously once you’re going at such high speeds it makes little sense to slow back down and then have to accelerate back up all over again).

      I don’t happen to think that aliens are buzzing Earth, but relativity doesn’t just close doors, it opens windows at the same time.

      … Provided you can get up to hilariously fast speeds. But tbh that seems easier to me than proposing hyperspeed and warpspeed and other FTL anyway.

  6. says

    Even if he pointed to a verse in the Bible that seemed to match, how do we know he didn’t read the verse first and then just claim to have seen this?

    I mean, that’s all it is – some weird guy on the interwebs claiming to have seen something.

  7. fastlane says

    I woulda thought this would make him convert to $cientology (or Raelianism (SP?)).

    But I guess that would be (slightly more) logical.

  8. warren grubb says

    I particularly liked that he “would even take a lie detector test to prove what happened is the truth.” Sorry bud, it doesn’t work that way, lol.

  9. pyrobryan says

    Did anyone here say that the bible has NO truth in it? I’m willing to accept a lot of things in the bible. There are people and places mentioned in the bible that almost certainly exist(ed). Just because a book contains some truth doesn’t mean it contains all truth. Other side of the coin, because a book contains some non-truths doesn’t mean it contains no truth.

    • sqlrob says

      Given the amount of non-truth and straight out internal contradictions, it’s safest to assume any claims are non-truth until there’s external verification.

  10. noastronomer says

    “I woulda thought this would make him convert to $cientology (or Raelianism”

    Nah, $cientology doesn’t want you if you’re already crazy.

  11. Reginald Selkirk says

    So many beliefs all rolled into one!

    It’s hard to beat the “Bigfoot is an inter-dimensional alien” claim though.
    I wish I was making this up.

    • sunnydale75 says

      I am SO going to have to look this one up. Wow.

      Tony (btw, does anyone know if the “Finding Bigfoot” show on Animal Planet is supposed to be a serious documentary or tongue in cheek? I watched one episode out of sheer boredom and wow, the leaps in logic made by the ‘foot hunters is just as great as religious believers. So much so that I found myself questioning whether the show is intended to be taken seriously. Having seen previews for the next season, I see more ridiculous claims that “no human could make that sound” or “only a Bigfoot could have made this track”. I wonder if there is a disclaimer at the end of the show saying “this television program is completely fictional. If you actually believe that any of the material presented is truthful and supportive of the existence of the fictional creature known as Bigfoot, you should seek immediate psychological attention”)

    • David Hart says

      Nah, that’s easy to beat. Here, let me have a go.

      Bigfoot was Jesus, who is an extraterrestrial (and who is just crawling with thetans and crystal energy).

  12. jacobfromlost says

    It’s not a coincidence that Christian apologists rarely drag out Ezekiel in defense of their claims. I used it once when debating a theist by simply asking him what the text LITERALLY means, what was happening LITERALLY beat by beat in that narrative. Not surprisingly, they don’t know. I’ve never met a Christian who did know, or was much interested in finding out (but they believe, uh, whatever it is that is happening, in every word! lol).

    A professor I had in college, who as a bible thumping Calvinist, freely admitted he had no idea what was going on in Ezekiel. He didn’t think it was a big deal that he didn’t.

  13. F says

    colubridae

    ariel? did he mean ‘areal’ as in ‘not real’

    That’s hilarious.

    But if it was a serious question, he meant “aerial”.

  14. Aquaria says

    So that everyone knows the reference to Ezekiel being bandied about here:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+1&version=KJV

    Somehow, the loonies always forget the first verse:

    Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

    This is how Ezekiel starts, by telling people outright: I’ve suffered a delusion. Obviously, schizophrenia wasn’t understood at all in that time.

    Fun note: The fourth month in the Jewish Calendar is known as Tammuz. I always get a laugh at that.

  15. Dude says

    I believe its called a bad trip… It happens when a person consumes an hallucinogen and enters a so called “bad trip”…

  16. Strategically Shaved Monkey says

    it tried on two occassions to stop our vehicle with some kind of small round circles……….manifested from within a strange thick vortex of vapour,released light down upon the bonnet of our car,it was being manipulated by something we could not see,and the air was blackened

    I don’t know about you, but i’d take this as a sign.
    A sign that the traffic lights are working and it being a foggy night maybe i really should stop.

  17. says

    This is interesting. Heaven’s Gate is one of several UFO cults that consider The Bible to be a sacred text and revealing of a higher truth.

    The Bible, containing so much vague ambiguous text can be a great tool for paradolia. UFOs in the Bible — of course, that and whatever else you want to read into it.

  18. Herk says

    Space aliens. Ha! I don’t believe in ‘em.

    No, it’s obvious these came from inside the earth, and you can only enter and leave at the north pole. Now where did I leave that tinfoil hat?

  19. Obscure Tenet says

    I think some joker back in the day, who did not believe the bullshit slipped one past the editor. He was thinking “man, the future people are gonna freak out when they read this one”.

  20. says

    “I have always be willing to talk about ti and would even take a lie detector test to prove what happened is the truth.”

    Ya got me! I’m sold! Sign me up with Fox Mulder!

  21. Brian Hearst says

    So THAT’S where my RC hovercraft model went! Lost it in the fog over Greenland. Never did clear up the ‘smoke rings from the exhaust’ problem.

  22. says

    [please read to the end before jumping to conclusions about what I'm saying; I realize this might come across the wrong way on a first read]

    I think that the response here to this guy is entirely unhelpful to him or (possibly more importantly) to future readers who might be looking for answers about their own personal experiences.

    First, we need to acknowledge that, as a simple matter of fact, people DO have spontaneous ecstatic or hallucinatory experiences (what those experiences mean is an entirely different question). By some estimates ~10% of the population has at least one occurrence of such an event during their lifetime.

    Sometimes it’s from stroke, stress, illness, injury, autohypnosis, meditation, dancing, drumming, chanting, or just plain-old brain chemistry gone awry (or possibly ‘right’ in the case of psychoactives).

    Shamanistic cultures have thousands of years of reports of interacting with other ‘beings’. People used to report interacting with and even having relationships with Faeries. Now it is predominately reported as ‘alien abductions’. But there are common themes running through all of these such as feelings of being immobilized, presence of other beings, sense of sexual or reproductive manipulation, experiences of having a child in the ‘other’ realm, or just generally being probed, studied, or sampled (etc).

    I have had similar experiences myself from meditation. Some of the experiences are incredibly realistic. But I KNOW that they are only in my mind. They are wonderful illusions, powerful, emotional, and meaningful to me. But illusions nonetheless.

    What we need to be doing is helping this guy understand that his experience is fairly common because it has an entirely mundane neurological explanation. He’s not crazy or demented, just uninformed. He’s had an experience that he cannot explain, it can be very confusing – hopefully this post takes a few steps towards explaining it and demystifying it (but I know from experience that is unlikely – but maybe some reader will find it helpful).

    The brain is perfectly capable of synthesizing entire ‘alien’ words in the sense of dreams, but it can do this while you are awake as well. Just because your brain says you are experiencing something does not mean that it is actually happening in reality.

    There isn’t enough detail in the email to really comment on specifics. But the fact that it is reported as ‘shared experience’, in no way, makes the reality of the event any less illusory. People often cue off of others both verbally and non-verbally. “Psychics” exploit this all the time. They mention something and you respond, they talk real fast and distract you, and then pretend like they reveal some information that you JUST told them but you’ve already forgotten that you said anything. And despite the 50 things they got wrong, you’ll pick that one thing as evidence that they are truly psychic (Confirmation Bias combined with statistical in-expertness).

    When you think of someone having a personal experience here is what you should envision: Double Rainbow. Your ‘amazing experience’ is no different from Hungrybear9562′s.

    It can be profoundly moving to you because your brain is what is assigning the meaning and significance but there is no external reality to what you are experiencing.

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