In which Martin and Tracie give Gavin the respect he’s earned. (Long one, sorry.) »« Open thread on episode #712

The crazy, it’s coming!

So, we’ve had a series of e-mails from some little troll (who may be a Poe or genuinely in need of psychiatric treatment) who clearly hates me. The brief summary (of what must be closing in on many dozens of printed pages of nastiness) is this:

1. Guy writes to explain how much I suck and how great everyone else on the show is.

2. Jeff and a few others rip into him, a bit, for some of his comments.

3. Guy writes in to explain why he hates me so much. It turns out he thought I was too nice to Ray Comfort and that I’m disgusting for letting this vile individual who protests soldiers’ funerals get off without a rant.

4. I explain that he’s a supreme idiot, because he stupidly confused Ray Comfort and the Phelps family and that he should try to know what he’s talking about before he opens his mouth

5. He writes back, falling all over himself to apologize for the mistake and notes that he’s especially embarrassed that he’d already contacted a lawyer to try to get me off the air or force the ACA to fire me. (Seriously. He was trying to legally limit my free speech because I wasn’t enough of an asshole to someone whose free speech he found offensive.)

6. I send back a quick note explaining that given his complete misunderstanding of 1st Amendment rights, I’d rather have Shirley Phelps on the show than continue talking to him. This puts him over the edge and the lawyer threats are followed by threats of making YouTube videos to expose us…

And now, we got this. I’m posting it, unaltered and my only comment (other than LOL) is: aren’t you glad you don’t have to deal with this? (Apologies to some of my friends who probably do have to deal with stuff like this.)

The irony that this was spawned by an accusation that he didn’t understand free speech is particularly amusing. He reminds me a bit of a Bond villain, thwarting his own plan via exposition:

You know what, you guys are right… Free speech conquers all!

Angry sickening hateful people should be able to dance on the coffins of dead veterans at the funeral, according to you. In fact, they should be able to piss on the coffins, right in front of the grieving family. According to you, people should be able to do whatever they want, no matter who they hurt, so why not, right?

You’re absolutely right about everything. It’s ok to verbally abuse people. It’s all right to call them every name in the book, swear at them, belittle them, etc. So I suggest that you start treating your children in such a manner, if you truly feel there’s nothing wrong with it. Free speech, right?

Would you treat your children in the same way you treat some of the callers? If not, then… why not? It’s fun, evidently, and those spoiled little brats probably deserve it.

If you believe totally in free speech, then you won’t mind if I write up an internet article exposing Matt Dillahunty as a 4-time convicted pedophile who has a thing for little boys, Russell Glasser as a transvestite who loves to sniff old men’s armpits, and Jeff Dee as someone who likes to fuck cows and then roll around in their shit.

You want to take this to extremes? Fine. Get ready for the greatest demonstration for free speech you’ve ever seen.

Forget the show. I’m not even going to mention it by name. You don’t deserve the publicitiy. Any clips I use in my documentary will have the title of the show and organization blurred out. Any vocal mention of the names will also be removed.

But as far as the hosts, I will name names. First and last, and their home addresses, email addresses, phone numbers, etc.

I will provide all those details. Free speech, right?

This is going to be fun!

According to you guys, my free speech trumps all your other rights, so don’t you dare worry about those. You wouldn’t let me worry about other people’s rights when it came to OTHER PEOPLE. So now that this principle is going to be applied to you PERSONALLY, you have NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.

Fair is fair, right?

You want to mock people’s other rights so badly, or minimize them, or pretend they don’t exist… fine. The gloves are coming off. You’re going to learn the hard way just how important your OTHER rights are.

You want privacy? Fuck that. Your full contact information is going up for all to see, as well as your relatives’ information. We wouldn’t want to leave them out. I’ve already got it all looked up and saved in Word document, for the 3 hosts I will be focusing on.

I could focus on Jen Peeples, too, since she is a lesbian who was once a girls swim coach, convicted of sexual abuse after she was caught fingering one of the underage girls after practice…

And let’s find out what happens when the job market learns that Russell Glasser CHEATED to get his Master’s Degree!

What will the public do when they learn that Jeff Dee once robbed a convenience store at gun point, and then beat up the OLD WOMAN minding the store, so badly that she was hospitalized for SIX WEEKS. He got off on a technicality after only 30 DAYS IN JAIL.

You want to see free speech, well you’re going to get a huge dose of it!

And if, incidentally, the rage of the public mounts against all of you… oh well, at least my right to free speech has been upheld!

I’m going to dig up (or make up) stories about all your family members, too, young and old, to expose them for the nazi-loving, terrorist supporting little delinquents they all are.

Free speech, right?

You have nothing to say against any of this. You condone and support the right of sick religious scumbags to harass a veteran’s grieving family, so you have to support my rights now, to do what I AM GOING TO DO.

Don’t tell me I can’t do this. I am doing it whether you like it or not.

I know the law surrounding slander and libel, and I know exactly how to frame and phrase everything so that it is legal and untouchable in a court of law. Sometimes a question mark in place of a period in the right place is all it takes! So don’t think for a second that I haven’t considered all the angles.

You obviously think that free speech is more important than other rights. Good.

Support my free speech in my documentary and internet expose… or you are all hypocrites.

See you at the movies!

Comments

  1. Martin says

    Yup, Gavin makes Yomin Postelnik seem like a paragon of calm, introspective, even-tempered self-control.Oops, wait…did I mention his name?(snaps fingers) Darn that free speech, getting out of control again.

  2. says

    He could be a real, live nutter! If he's a joker then he needs more constructive uses for his time, or perhaps he's got other motives entirely. In any case, I can only assume he's a bit weird. Even if he's purposefully chosen to appear weird, he's successful enough to just be weird.

  3. says

    I found this hilarious and depressingly obsessive at the same time. Transvestite that likes to sniff old men's armpits? That's like a grade-school insult. The rest of it is so blatantly defamatory that there's no way he'd get it protected with question marks. Although he has better defenses, such as being too ridiculous for anyone to take seriously.

  4. says

    The emailer should file the paperwork in Australia, or the UK, as there it is an offence to make:"[public] comments about the race or religion of a person that could incite contempt or ridicule of, or hatred for, that person"

  5. says

    Maybe it's my Youtube induced shortened attention span, but I wasn't even able to finish reading his (her?) email.

  6. says

    Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, can we PLEASE not be making wild speculations about whether the nut who has sent us a dozen emails in three days might be a Poe? Not everybody who acts like an ass is pretending, people!

  7. says

    With just this one email he has cleared each and every hurdle for libel even under the strictest interpretation. He better watch what he says or writes in public with the above on record."There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, the person first must prove that the statement was false. Second, that person must prove that the statement caused harm. And, third, they must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. In the case of a celebrity or public official trying to prove libel, they must prove the first three steps, and must (in the United States) prove the statement was made with the intent to do harm, or with reckless disregard for the truth. Usually specifically referred to as "proving malice"."

  8. says

    Clearly, this guy isn't quite up to speed on the nuances of free speech. He gets it a bit wrong in a few spots.For instance, slander and harassment aren't protected free speech. Nor is going from "God hates Fags" to an action pissing on graves.

  9. says

    With just this one email he has cleared each and every hurdle for libel even under the strictest interpretation.He did find the Fox News loophole. He's got that going for him.

  10. says

    Libel laws. That's how you "encourage" liars to behave a little more ethically. See how quickly he recants his little "free speech" exercise when his assets are being seized. Someone needs to teach this little moron that freedom implies responsibility.

  11. says

    @Russell…you could go so far as to say that if somebody is taking their "pretending" to such lengths, they are still crazy!The misunderstanding of semantics here is awfully reminiscent of Charlie!

  12. Martin says

    Crazypants keeps writing us. He seems to think he's really intimidating. In his latest, he attaches some video clip, which none of us can be bothered to watch, but which he says exposes us as a "hate group." He adds, Your full names and addresses will be in the documentary in case some angry person wishes to call and harass you about your behavior. You brought this on yourselves. Ooo, scarrry.And then he goes on to say: By the way, if you use my name in any facebook posts, I'll sue you for every dime your organization has.His name is Gavin Chandler.

  13. says

    @Martin LOL… you are lucky this isn't facebook or your organization wouldn't have any dimes left.

  14. says

    "I know the law surrounding slander and libel, and I know exactly how to frame and phrase everything so that it is legal and untouchable in a court of law."… Apparently not. There's no getting around these being libel:"[Jen] is a lesbian who was once a girls swim coach, convicted of sexual abuse after she was caught fingering one of the underage girls after practice""Russell Glasser CHEATED to get his Master's Degree"etc.I love that he goes off on a rant about wording things carefully and playing games with punctuation, immediately after not doing that.

  15. Martin says

    Hey everyone, you wanna read Gavin's latest email? Apparently we've got him all wrong, and we're SPINNING this whole situation! No no, he is actually the Courageous Defender of You All. See, we routinely and viciously ABUSE our callers with horrible INSULTS and MEANNESS, and he thinks that's bad, and because of this, he obviously feels justified in attacking us with everything he's got. Which in this case is basically another frothing email full of wacky libel and so much self-serving delusion it would make Glenn Beck blush. (Not sure where he got the idea we had $600K in donations last year. We wish! We'd be in our own studio so fast it would cause a sonic boom!) Here it is in full, for the lulz:You post about me on facebook, and then on your blog… but you leave out one very important detail.You left out the fact that my main complaint was about the ABUSE OF CALLERS TO YOUR SHOW.Why are you hiding this from your facebook and blog followers?Too afraid to open that can of worms?You say I write these emails for various reasons, but repeatedly LEAVE OUT the main point I've been harping on OVER AND OVER.You're leaving out the main point, and therefore are MISREPRESENTING what is really going on.I'll be adding this to my documentary… the fact that you are too afraid to bring up that I'm concerned about how you abuse callers.You wouldn't want them to know that I'm actually doing this to stand up for someone's rights, now would you?I'll be adding a section to my documentary that lays out how you are AGAINST freedom of religion. In fact, you want it OUTLAWED.You guys so carelessly lose your tempers on the show that there is PLENTY of material to back that story up, true or untrue.I do have the resources to pay for a private investigator there in Austin. I'm considering it.And Matt, stop skimming off the donations to pay for your wedding… Asshole!You guys received over $600,000 in donations last year. WHERE THE FUCK IS ALL THAT MONEY, MATT?Go ahead, mislead your followers about my true intentions. Keep leaving out the important fact that I am making a stand for the callers who have had to endure your abuse.Why would an organization with nothing to hide choose to spin the facts?"This is all about his hate for Matt" is a lie.I do hate Matt, yes… but this is about ABUSE. You fucking disrespectful cuntbags ABUSE and HUMILIATE callers who don't deserve it.Sure, I'm spewing all sorts of hateful language in your direction, I admit… but I am doing it in response to your behavior… not just doing it to abuse or humiliate you, like you DO TO YOUR CALLERS, sometimes before they even get a sentence out!So, it's different. The swearing, insults, and humiliation are unwarranted. The swearing, insults, and humiliation I am sending your way is in response to your unwarranted abuse… so this is WARRANTED.You've got something to hide, and I'm going to find out even if I do have to hire a private investigator.Let's have a look at your books, shall we?Anyway, you are a hate organization with an agenda against freedom of religion. That much I know, and will expound upon in the 2 hour documentary I'm creating.There's a reason you are leaving out the bit concerning me and my defense of the callers you abuse… and I'm going to get to the bottom of it.Anyway, don't you all feel lucky to have a guy like Gavin protecting you from all our horrible ABUSE?

  16. Martin says

    He sent it as a file attachment, and it's not like we're going to host it anywhere. Sorry. We'll do a lot for the lulz, but not that much.

  17. says

    I can't wait to see the 2 hour documentary. I wonder if it'll be better or worse than Expelled.

  18. says

    I'm honestly surprised I didn't see caps lock used more. But yeah, this dude has no idea what free speech means, and that it has limit Cough cough! Libel cough!

  19. says

    I like how his e-mails describe this alleged horrible abusive treatment then immediately go on to say that he's somehow justified in doing the exact same thing "just 'cause". Not a Poe, just an overinflated ego upheld by a paltry smattering of brain cells…

  20. says

    He is concerned with the callers? You mean the people who volunteer on their own free will and call a show to say stupid shit to smart people? I think I just pee myself..

  21. says

    This guy is one of two things:A troll, a realy big one, maybe you guys forget to burn the corpse, trolls can regenerate you know…A person with serius mental problens, i realy would like to know whats this documentary hes keep talking about, even though i realy doubt, he have any chance of making one.

  22. says

    "By the way, if you use my name in any facebook posts, I'll sue you for every dime your organization has." Are you sure that this guy isn't simply making a bid for attention? That quote seems an awful lot like an attempt to get his name posted to Facebook through kindergarten-level reverse psychology (and a successful one, to boot). Given that success, if any buxom swimsuit models try to make out with me I will sue them for every dime they have! Just try and call that bluff! I dare you!

  23. says

    Kind of playing the devil's advocate, but kind of not:Maybe he's right, maybe protesting someone's funeral with signs saying they're going to hell IS the same as him to putting up videos that say Matt is a pedophile…however, this can be quickly turned around to our advantage! What if, granting the comparison as true, this means we could sue every single theist that puts up signs saying someone is going to hell as libelous!!! That would be awesome. It almost makes sense, if it is illegal for me to say you are a pedophile when it's not true, then it should be equally illegal for me to say you deserve to be tortured in hell when (we all know!) it's not true!Just a funny thought.

  24. djarm67 says

    Wow. How ignorant to think we don't already know all those sordid details.Alternatively, he could be just doing a spoiler for "The Atheist Experience" movie (due out in early 2012).I still think it was a bad move to cast Stone Cold Steve Austin as Matt.

  25. says

    Would it be possible for you to post the video to YouTube? Or if not, would you be willing to send it to me so I could post it?

  26. says

    I can't say how I'd handle that level of crazy in my inbox, aaaaah the joys of non-celebrity, but I just wonder if it's too late to pull the "not-caring" card. I mean, yeah, you kinda had to respond the first couple times, but now that it's become clear he fires up quicker than sodium in water, why not start ignoring him? I mean, what's the worst he can do? Make a film about you? Oh noes, whatever shall you do?

  27. says

    I think you somehow have finally met the god of the bible. Sounds a lot like him. Blustery, easily offended, laws don't apply to him, hypocritical, etc.

  28. says

    Hey Gavin, I know you're reading these replies and I'm wondering if you could help me and my friends out: you keep making references to insults made by the hosts of "The Atheist Experience." Could you spare us the waiting time for your documentary and just post links to these rancorous clips? Ever since I met Matt I always knew there is a deep seated evil inside…

  29. says

    You would think, if he was to make a documentary (which, at best, will be a Youtube video of Atheist Experience clips interspersed with his incoherent ramblings) he would instead direct it at the Phelps family. Or is that Ray Comfort? I always confuse those two.

  30. says

    "This guy is one of two things:A troll, a realy big one, maybe you guys forget to burn the corpse, trolls can regenerate you know…A person with serius mental problens…"I was thinking the same thing.

  31. says

    It's a very typical troll tactic to take two completely separate and independent arguments from a long conversation (ie. flamewar) and mix them up together to make one of them sound ridiculous (iow. it's a variant of straw man argumentation).In this particular case, if I understood correctly, the troll is taking the initial confusion about Comfort actually not being related to Phelps or their church, and conflating it with the later point that a frivolous lawsuit against Matt to take him out of the show would be an obvious violation of the first amendment, even though these two points were not related to each other in any way.

  32. says

    I've never heard any member of the Atheist Experience say anything near as abusive to anyone as "Gavin" has said in his letters. If he threatens more, list his i.p. address so we can all know where the crazy is coming from.It seems Gavin is against "abusive" free speech when it comes from others, but has no qualms of being the instigator of such speech.

  33. says

    I couldn't even read it all. Boy, I thought it would be great to have a show like yours here in the UK or back in Quebec (even more in Quebec), but I am not sure if I could do deal with such abuse. You have to put up with a lot of ugly people. I admire you for this.

  34. says

    All my childhood illusions of Texas are being destroyed.Where is John Wayne, Roy Rodgers,and Champion the wonder horse when you really need them?I had wrongly assumed that everyone connected with the show were gun slinging cowboys or oil Barons. Are you sure it is not possible to round up a posse,track him through the bad lands cut him off at the pass.Where Matt can shoot his six shooter out of his hand.Then you can all tar and feather him before riding him out of town on a rail. If that is not possible i am sure that if you were to appeal for funds to launch a legal fight your fans would be happy to donate.

  35. Brian says

    What's with all the crazy moronic atheists coming out of the woodwork all the sudden? First it was Charlie the "homophobe" and now this asshole.I guess it just goes to show that just because one is an atheist doesn't make one smart.

  36. says

    Hmm… apparently with fame comes the haters, stalkers and other idiots. Ask any celebrity.As a fan, all I can say is keep it up guys!

  37. says

    If he knew the laws "Surrounding libel and slander" then he might want to think about "intent" in light of his little rant. Not that you have anything to worry about from this douche!! As for his problems with your defense of free speech. Protection of free speech has to include protecting things WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR or we are really protecting NOTHING!!I am a soldier and it burns my ass to see the Phelps family do what they do,but, as much as I hate their message, they have the constitutional right to say what they say. A real man must face things he doesn't like to have the things he does. GROW UP whoever you are.

  38. says

    I may have missed it but I don't see anyone pointing out the important fact that the first amendment and free speech only prohibits the government from censoring dissenting speech. People who value the liberty of free speech naturally try to follow that principle and allow open dissent in such situations as this, but it should be noted that a belief in the first amendment is not incompatible with refusing to give certain speech a platform. IOW, if Gavin the Gormless were to call in to TAE, become abusive, and find himself hung up on, that would not be a limit on his free speech because he is still able to openly disseminate his ideas by other channels — Facebook, YouTube, his own blog, any sympathetic forum. And free speech does not extend to personal libel/slander, because again, the first amendment only limits the dissent-silencing powers of the government, and does not apply to personal defamations. Especially when it's now a matter of public record that such defamations are intentionally and knowingly false.

  39. says

    "I know the law surrounding slander and libel, and I know exactly how to frame and phrase everything so that it is legal and untouchable in a court of law. Sometimes a question mark in place of a period in the right place is all it takes! So don't think for a second that I haven't considered all the angles."LOL! He sent you this email TELLING you he's going to lie about you! LMAO! This guy has no clue about slander/libel law!

  40. says

    I guess it's a fringe benefit of running a public show like this: you never run out of things to laugh about.

  41. says

    "…Matt Dillahunty as a 4-time convicted pedophile who has a thing for little boys, Russell Glasser as a transvestite who loves to sniff old men's armpits, and Jeff Dee as someone who likes to fuck cows and then roll around in their shit."No wonder Non-Prophets get postponed so often.

  42. says

    I really like this guy! It's like the guilty pleasure of watching a skater wipe and rack himself on a bar; sure it's awful, but holy fuck if it's not hilarious.On a more serious more note.. I might be biased towards this opinion being a misanthrope, but I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to find that this guy was not, in fact, a poe. I'd also like to add that I'm not sold on him being mentally unstable (though I'd agree that he's certainly not of sound mind). I think it's far more likely that he's a lonely person with poor social skills and an absurdly inflated opinion of himself.Mr. Chandler, if you're reading this, I'm sure you can find someone to give you a hug. I wouldn't, but that's just because I don't like you, but I'm sure someone will!

  43. says

    Could be an association with Gavin Darklighter, cousin of Biggs Darklighter in the Expanded Universe novels; or Gavin Bocquet, production designer on the prequel trilogy. I can't decide which would be nerdier.

  44. says

    "Protection of free speech has to include protecting things WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR or we are really protecting NOTHING!!"Ok, but even the free speech right, have it limits, you cant just make lies about people and make that public.

  45. says

    "What will the public do when they learn that Jeff Dee once robbed a convenience store at gun point, and then beat up the OLD WOMAN minding the store, so badly that she was hospitalized for SIX WEEKS. He got off on a technicality after only 30 DAYS IN JAIL."…I can actually believe this one.The image of Jeff Dee wearing a stocking on his head and pistol whipping an octogenarian is the funniest thing I've imagined all week. "I could focus on Jen Peeples, too, since she is a lesbian who was once a girls swim coach, convicted of sexual abuse after she was caught fingering one of the underage girls after practice…"This one is significantly less funny and more vile. Seriously, how does someone bitch about how bad Phelps is and then turn around and blast this homophobic bullshit. Is he just one of the twits who doesn't give a shit about the hate and is just mad it's soldiers being targeted?

  46. says

    Seriously, how does someone bitch about how bad Phelps is and then turn around and blast this homophobic bullshit.Remember that this is the same guy who apparently started off by bitching about how Matt wasn't harsh enough on Ray Comfort, but is now planning to make a 2-hour documentary about how Matt is too harsh to everyone in the world. The guy just wants to throw a bitch fit about something, it doesn't matter to him if it's internally consistent.

  47. says

    I've never heard of this Gavin person and I can tell that I never want to either. If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have never guessed it existed. This is one case where I prefer to be ignorant. Moving right along…

  48. says

    One word re posting your entire family's addresses: STALKING.Tony D: Roy Rogers et al are all dead — along with the "Old West" — which is a mixed blessing. I loved'em, but some of the "right" (vs "wrong") they stood for wouldn't necessarily match up with your beliefs, anyway.I agree that one of the critical points this guy misses (in a whole forest of 'em) is that the Bill of Rights (and the whole Constitution) protect us against GOVERNMENT intrusions, not limitations by individuals. Other laws protect against libel and slander. There is no protection against fools who want to believe evil of anyone who makes a living in the public forum.I see a difference between allegations of pedophilia and assertions that someone will burn in hell. Pedophilia can be objectively verified. The existence or not of Hell can't — we can only believe in it or not. Those who claim to know that someone else will or won't burn DO seem to me to be guilty of extreme hubris. On the legal side of the issue, there would be no basis for a lawsuit resting on the truth or falsehood of Hell; the only suit I see there is one for infliction of "pain and suffering" or some variation on that — but then the one bringing suit would have to admit to *believing* in a Hell about which to suffer mental anguish. I guess if you don't believe, you can't suffer from being told you're going … Really cool "Catch 22" don't you think?

  49. says

    Trolls can be entertaining for awhile, but they get tiresome and boring all too soon. This one presents as bipolar in the manic phase, with grandiosity and pressured speech. Which, of course, can be faked more easily online.Enjoy him while you can; you'll be just hitting the delete button on his communications soon enough……Now, a really clever, intentional troll can be lots of fun to play with for quite some time. But that's not who this one is.Also, perhaps I should mention that Martin and Matt have a despicable history of saying awful things to hurt the feelings and career prospects of innocent, helpless, non-existent deities. Like pointing out that they're non-existent. I mean, how would you like for somebody to do that to you?

  50. Muskiet. says

    I'd say you need to post his full name and e-mail address. We always have lots of fun with those sort of fuck-tarts on Pharyngula.

  51. Rick T says

    Here is a little tip for you guys in the future. As someone who worked in a litigious related field (ie insurance). You guys are to the size where people will threaten laws suits and yell at you saying they will call a lawyer. Don't let this bother you until you receive a letter of representation from a real lawyer. Until then its all words.

  52. says

    "What will the public do when they learn that Jeff Dee once robbed a convenience store at gun point, and then beat up the OLD WOMAN minding the store, so badly that she was hospitalized for SIX WEEKS. He got off on a technicality after only 30 DAYS IN JAIL."Now I can't get the mental image of Jeff Dee robbing an old woman of a marble rye while yelling "Give me the bread you old hag" out of my head.

  53. says

    I hope you guys are gong to sue him for his remarks. I love it when justice prevails. Surely u guys can afford it with the $600k you make every week, after expenses and taxes. I'd start my own Atheist show for that, but I don't want the headache of being that rich. I'll stick with my $30k with $29.9k expenses. I love pain!

  54. says

    His beliefs contradict. He's probably a theist that thinks we'll all turn to Christianity the second we see a single bad atheist.

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