Comments for Ashley Miller

Comment on Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism by maddog1129

maddog1129 — Wed, 22 May 2013 23:12:42 +0000

Agreed. My point is that it doesn’t mean “stop talking permanently,” and that seems to be what the objection is.

Comment on Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism by Pieter B, FCD

Pieter B, FCD — Wed, 22 May 2013 23:04:15 +0000

"Shut up and listen" to me means that when another person is talking, you should be listening, not waiting for an opening in which to start saying that which you had already planned to say.

Comment on Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism by WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller

WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller — Wed, 22 May 2013 22:46:07 +0000

[...] « Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism [...]

Comment on [#wiscfi] Liveblog: Gender Equality in the Secular Movement by WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller

WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller — Wed, 22 May 2013 22:45:45 +0000

[...] [Another from Jason] Amanda Marcotte [Jason] Rebecca Goldstein [Jason] Women Leaving Religion Gender Equality in the Secular Movement Susan Jacoby [Jason] How Women’s Concerns Can Best Be Advanced within the Context of a Secular [...]

Comment on [#wiscfi] Who Speaks for Feminism? by WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller

WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller — Wed, 22 May 2013 22:44:37 +0000

[...] Opening Remarks Faith-Based Pseudoscience. [Another from Jason] Amanda Marcotte [Jason] Rebecca Goldstein [Jason] Women Leaving Religion Gender Equality in the Secular Movement Susan Jacoby [Jason] How Women’s Concerns Can Best Be Advanced within the Context of a Secular Agenda [Jason] Jennifer Michael Hecht [Jason] Maryam Namazie [Jason] What the Secular Movement Can Learn from Other Social Movements [Jason] Who Speaks for Feminism? [...]

Comment on [#wiscfi] Liveblog: How Feminism Makes Better Skeptics: The Role Rationality Plays in Ending Sexism by WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller

WiS and Liveblogging Wrap-Up » Ashley Miller — Wed, 22 May 2013 22:44:12 +0000

[...] Remarks Faith-Based Pseudoscience. [Another from Jason] Amanda Marcotte [Jason] Rebecca Goldstein [Jason] Women Leaving Religion Gender Equality in the Secular Movement [...]

Comment on Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism by smhll

smhll — Wed, 22 May 2013 22:29:41 +0000

Patrick May -

The examples R. Lindsay provided of the shut up and listen meme are on his blog. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/a_few_examples_of_shut_up_and_listen/

His examples are quotes from PZ Myers, John Scalzi and a John Scalzi fan, and a blogger on DailyKos. Only the last of these individuals is a woman. (If that is relevant.)

Even PZ’s example, which I think is the most strongly phrased, isn’t a direct personal command to an individual he wishes would shut up. It is more of a general piece of advice to men who want to argue about feminism.

Comment on Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism by maddog1129

maddog1129 — Wed, 22 May 2013 21:28:14 +0000

No, that’s not what’s being said. It’s NOT “you’re right and they’re wrong” as the only starting point. It’s that there is more than one possible way to view things, and you won’t know that if you never pay attention to what anyone else is saying, particularly other people with other experiences. Lots of other “starting points” are acceptable, but I do expect other people’s descriptions of their lived experiences to be taken seriously. And I expect everyone to take seriously the idea that sometimes it’s someone else’s turn to speak.

Comment on Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism by maddog1129

maddog1129 — Wed, 22 May 2013 21:24:48 +0000

IOW, “shut up and listen” isn’t a black-and-white, all-or-nothing proposition. It simply means taking turns talking.

Comment on Taking it Personally: Privilege and Women in Secularism by maddog1129

maddog1129 — Wed, 22 May 2013 21:23:22 +0000

But “shut up and listen” doesn’t mean “shut up forever” or “silence men’s voices.” The criticism of “shut up and listen” seems to assume that men are to be silenced or completely excluded from now on, and that is not what is being said. It just means that other people get a chance to talk TOO, without present interruption. After listening, then it’s your turn to talk again. If you HAVE been listening, you might say something different from what you would have said before you (temporarily) shut up and listened.