On being Mrs Ra (I get comments)

The first thing I need to get out of the way is for the most part it is great to be Mrs. Ra. I get to meet all sorts of interesting and intelligent freethinkers all over the country. And over time, I have come out of my introverted shell more. The cool thing lately, is that I meet people, who recognize me as well and thank me for projects I have done like Answers in Science. Although this article focuses on the big names, it actually started out because of my tiny webcast getting into it with Ken Ham. Really I don’t see myself as having the impact that Aron or the others at that seminar do on pseudoscience. But this is one instance where the roles were reversed and he was a part of something I started. That is one of the negatives about being “Mrs. Ra”, that people sometimes discredit or devalue my contributions. Even well meaning people some feminists themselves, who otherwise like me, have casually let it slip that people would not listen to me if it weren’t for Aron.

Others who know me personally and understand my contributions, as well, when they see anonymous comments along these lines, say ignore it they are horrible people, who lead horrible lives. In truth, that advice has made me stay silent about the friendly fire I’ve experienced inside the atheist community. I don’t want to validate people with attention, who are motivated to bully and harass people online. In their view I am “strong and independent” if I say nothing, and any response to their bullying is seen as “whining”. A  win-win situation for them right? Stay silent and they continue bullying, and it is bullying not trolling because people actually are that hateful in real life. Understand it is not unusual for people to call women bitches, cunts, stupid, emotional, irrational, feminazi, whore, slut, or  fat in real life. I have had people in real life call me most of those things when they are angry even total strangers. Many women have and even sometimes by other women.

If you do say something, you are seen as a complainer or a whiner. As a middle school teacher, I often see bullied children, who have had the onus of bullying flipped on them. One child actually said “snitches get stitches” when I was asking the class to tell me later if they knew who stole her phone. The school situations are different than online ones where drama gets magnified exponentially, and attracts rubber-neckers to the trainwreck. That one reason alone is a good reason to not say anything about it, especially if you want to accomplish positive things. It decreases the signal to noise ratio.

A good example of this is the science curriculum supplement videos I am working on with Aron. To be sure, Aron would do a kick ass job in articulating tough topics like evolution on his own. However, can he read broad state standards, and focus specifically on what students need to do well in school? An example, he could do this awesome, enriching  presentation on the development of the eye for teaching natural selection. However, if peppered moths are the tested example then it will be less effective. Does he have classroom experience with students, who don’t have a science background? Does he have training in pedagogy? Has he had the experiences of failing on a lesson he thought was great, and later revised it to make it better? Nope. As a teacher, I have had those experiences. I am helping to amplify his signal, and it is one of the greatest things about being Mrs. Ra. I know that the two of us would have a hard time replacing each other as a companion and partner. We make each other better people.

So, I go on the Magic Sandwich Show with Aron to explain the project to people, and I have an anonymous hater in the comments being up-voted that I am supposedly a “stupid whore”. Never-mind that although others like Concordance and Aron have more scientific gravitas, I am the only one on the panel, who is a certified science teacher with classroom experience. It doesn’t matter how true something I say is, or how qualified I am to speak on a subject. What matters in this case is that I disagreed in another show with Thunderf00t on feminist issues, and that I even identify as a feminist in other cases. Thunderf00t can’t be wrong to his fans, I have to be misunderstanding him because I am stupid, irrational, or emotional. And too, I am the emotional one when this commenter has used a discussion on science education to talk about how much he hates me. Hate is an emotion too and expressing inappropriate emotions is irrational too, right?

Even though it annoys me that the noise this person makes derails the discussion to an irrational discussion on whether I deserve to be hated or not, I still have to say this even against the very good reasons to leave it alone. I have to speak up in order to raise awareness of the strong influence of misogyny most virulently in the online atheist community. The things I have said, have been said by men like Aron in the same venue, and he is given a fair hearing and not subjected to irrational hatred. And this is why these people are not simply trolls, but bullies. Bullies are raised in the might makes right mentality. This puts men in unhealthy competition with one another and women at the bottom of the hierarchy, and their speech is viewed more negatively. Not just me all women.  Women are stereotyped as talking more to the extent that they believe this themselves. In truth, men dominate most mixed group interactions, including ones where decisions affect women too like legislatures.

Sometimes, it isn’t even a conscious effort on the part of men to dominate the conversation. Like the study I cited says, women themselves think they are talking more than they are because of societal norms that value taking turns and being polite in girls where men don’t have the same expectations. It happened here when I was discussing rape prevention on MSS with a panel of men, I am the only woman in the panel with life experiences on the topic, and still I wasn’t allowed to finish most of my points by some of the men.

The most important point I am getting at here is deciding whose speech is important in the atheist community is not like a competition in Game of Thrones where you win or you die. That world is so obsessed with dominance and being in power that it ignores the eminent threat of hordes of zombies.

game-of-thrones-new-poster

The most bad ass motherfucker gets to speak. Amirite?

 

I’d like to see a better world without the negative,regressive,domineeering effects of religious dogma.  Not a world without religion where the playground bully even if he isn’t the best leader wins. A world like this…

Not perfect, but light years ahead of the world we live in.

Not perfect, but light years ahead of the world we live in.

 

Anyhow to end on a more positive note, here are some comments of people that love me and get me. I meet these people in real life too, even in Bible Belt buckles like East Texas. A couple expressed to me there how puzzled they were, by some of the disagreements on women’s rights on my appearances on MSS. A lot of people don’t think it is cool to be hateful.

Here are the comments if you are a hater choke on it!

 

Mrs. Ra has an excellent point about creationists redefining words to suit there agenda. They use the same tactics while interpreting the Bible.
I bet Aron and Mrs Ra could come up with a damn good home schooling curriculum.Heck, Get Concordance and Ozzy on the team, too. Maybe they could come up with something to make kids woo-woo-proof.
Inspirational lady. I used to have bible studies and brought into the whole god story for a long time but they had too many pathetic answers to my valid questions. There are so many holes in the bible and christianity and religion in general that there is not enough space nor time to go into it all. I HAVE read the bible, cover to cover. I am not just an atheist. I am a guy that believed until I became old enough to grasp the inconsistencies in this nasty ass fairy story that has such a grasp on humanity.
You know what, screw it. I was anti-feminist for awhile, but fuck that. I agree with them on probably seventy percent of what they say. Just because I’m not big on the feminist culture doesn’t mean I’m not a feminist. I’ll still oppose censorship and misandry and racism when I see it in that community, but no movement is perfect. It’s better to try to fix the broken parts than to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Lilandra is right, feminism is a part of humanism.
Bravo Lilandra!Thank you for your take on humanism.. It is very much appreciated. I really love your views on contraception. You and your husband are a gift to rational people :)
(and hopefully to those non-rational people as well)

Beeker Bod

3 months ago

Finally some women on the panel…but wait!! Lilandra, thumbs up. The other two…urggh!! I guess they made things lively through their outrageous statements but I’d love to see more deep thinking women joining in on the show.

I think there’s nothing wrong with diverse ideas within secular communities. Opposing abortion for instance seems a fair stance to me, even if I disagree – if anything it highlights that the conservatives actually do not have biblical reasons for it. It’s a philosophy on the meaning of human life, nothing more. I think it can be easily exposed as false though through plenty of thought experiments (as can be the radical “unlimited abortion” idea).No doubt many of us still hold baggage from a religious upbringing. But the main point is broken. We cannot say “god says so” and stop thinking. No doubt some still do similar things, but it’s not as easy. We know we have to consider morality carefully, and if someone points out our errors we have little defense but to argue our position (and perhaps to find that it’s not as strong as we thought). That doesn’t guarantee we’ll have the same conclusions (wouldn’t that be boring!), it just takes away one false escape card.
Lilandra has been given the chance to speak several times and has made good on the opportunity. she is finding her voice and it seems to suit her. good on ya Lilandra.
aron ra, aron ra, ra ra ra!
I think AronRa just got schooled by his wife Lilandra :P
Very interesting speech.
I could go on, but you get the point.

[important]

I almost forgot that I was inspired to speak out by Laci Green’s new video where she admits she is a feminist and gives 51 reasons why.

[/important]

So, you’d like to see better science education?

Aron and I have been involved together in opposing pseudoscience since before we met, and married. Of course, he has been at this twice as long and has an exponentially bigger footprint both on necks of creationists, and on people he has helped educate. I am one of those people. Ten years ago,he challenged me to provide a better explanation than evolution for origins. Of course, you know who already had all the answers going in. It didn’t end as badly as his recent challenge to OnceForgivenNowFree  with OFNF ignoring any evidence and then declaring victory. Even if it had, I would have still been wrong, and still ignorant like OFNF is.

I started out as a Christian homeschooler and the journey has taken me through being a theistic evolutionist at a Christian private school to even getting into a dust up with Ken Ham about his creationist homeschool curriculum. Along the way, I started teaching science in public schools.  Every now and again I get a student, who responds that planets, mountains, dogs, or whatever came from god, and they don’t “believe” in science. It often makes me sad to see how incurious dogmatic beliefs have made them. Of course, I reply but you do use science everyday, and show them why and where.

This is going to sound melodramatic, but Aron set me free from ignorance, and showed me things I would have never known growing up with a creationist background. And now I have had the chance to repay him by helping get him the support he needs to set more people free.

We started a Patreon campaign just nine days ago, so that he could make videos full time. Since then it has surpassed nearly every goal we set. Now next week, he will be devoting full time effort to making science education videos for secondary school with my help. When I got into it with Ham, secular homeschoolers would message me asking what I recommended in terms of science education given that most of the homeschool science curriculum are religious. The videos will be a resource for them, private and public school parents, and teachers. He also will be starting a new bi-weekly podcast with Be Secular’s Mark Nebo.  As I type this, he is within 50 dollars of his 1500 a video goal, and at that goal he will make a Phylogeny Explorer website for science students and scientists. He is going to have to set another goal to pay for part time assistance in loading millions of taxa.

All of the mostly positive support and trust people have placed in Aron has surprised him, and he will do his best to deserve their support. Most of all, we are grateful for the opportunity to help remediate some of the harm done by scientific illiteracy.  Really, anyone who says something like, “We are the magic rock apes!” has missed more than a few basic steps in biology.

Unholy Trinity Tour Last Stop: San Antonio Tomorrow

There is some speculation on just who resembles who in the Unholy Trinity.  Most people think that Aron resembles Satan himself. Even Ken Ham pointed out that he thinks Aron looks Satanic.  You could make a case for the other 2 in the tour Seth Andrews or Matt Dillahunty. How does anyone know what Satan look likes anyways?

Anyhow, the last stop is going to be in San Antonio tomorrow. You can still buy tickets at the door. Who knows maybe you will be seen in the video Seth is making of it.

Youtube Misogyny: Glenn and Rad on “Rodger Madman or Misogynist”?

Christina Rad has an excellent rebuttal to Jaclyn Glenn’s musings and follow up on Elliot Rodger, and his motives for a mass shooting. She has some astute observations on how words like mentally ill and insane are not interchangeable.  I don’t want to ruin it for you, so go watch it. Of course, the comments are already thick with misogyny deniers, and people who think they know when people are insane or not and what motivates them.

Rad made an excellent point about how insanity is defined in a legal context. It hinges on a criminal’s ability to understand whether their action was right or wrong. She sets up a case quoted from his Manifesto, that Rodger was aware of the legality of his actions.

In the aftermath of the shootings, people often said things like we can never know what went on in the mind of a madman. As Rad points out, Rodger laboriously documented his motivations.

I was going to post that I hoped that Glenn would give Rad’s video an equal amount of effort and thought, but she has already posted to it.

JaclynGlenn

Again, since apparently everyone misses this, I said he was VERY misogynistic. I said this several times in both videos. He was also fucked up in the head. Feminists like to ignore that because it doesn’t suit their agenda, hence my video. His mental state made him capable of murder, the misogyny simply determined who the targets would become.I too have lawyers in my family. Yes, insanity was a colloquialism… I mentioned that it was a legal term because that’s the word most people seemed to offended by. Since it is legal (and slang) I pointed it out.

So again, she returns to the point she made in her videos, that feminists are ignoring that Rodger was “fucked up in the head” because it doesn’t suit their agenda. I am pretty sure that Rad didn’t ignore that he may have unusual and I believe she said strange  behaviors. More importantly, it isn’t fair for Glenn to accuse “feminists” as a group of ignoring Rodger may have had a psychological diagnosis. (Worded that more charitably) The thing Glenn is missing is it is irrelevant as a motive if he wasn’t legally insane. And too, that is a strong accusation to accuse “feminists” of callously using a mass shooting to further their “agenda”. She hasn’t provided strong enough evidence to make such a blanket accusation of feminists.

While we are on agenda, why would it be a bad thing to draw attention to misogyny culture provided you aren’t glossing over the real motive? I think Glenn must already know that she gets more hate directed toward her as a woman than men youtubers get. Whenever, I discuss feminism on youtube the hate directed towards me is fierce. There are all kinds of gleefully angry comments on my perceived appearance, rationality, and emotionality.  It is like dealing with hateful creationists only dripping with more venomous contempt. On other topics that don’t draw misogynists out people comment that my voice is cute or something of that nature.

Youtube right now is a cesspool of misogyny culture. It is denied in some cases by popular atheists, who paradoxically don’t have religious cultural reasons to deny that there is a problem. The culture is so pervasive that it feeds hateful, misogynists like Rodger a steady diet of hate. Don’t forget that Rodger is a youtuber, and posted his death threats there. He also fed himself a steady diet of Pick up Artist rhetoric that dehumanizes women there. Another important point Glenn misses, people often live in subcultures that normalize things that are delusional. That is why religious beliefs are not necessarily diagnosable in the DSM V. If people think they are praying to a god, it isn’t necessarily a psychiatric hallucination. It is normalized by religious culture.

And still, I can hear the denials that I have already heard before that you shouldn’t take internet posts like death and rape threats seriously. They’re trolls, right? Don’t be a victim Glenn urged in her videos, because she says you can’t affect the victimizers.

As someone, who has been bombarded with hateful comments, I say fine you can’t stop insults. However, youtube has to stop being a place for mass shooters to threaten people. The death and rape threats need to be against comment policy and taken down. How come youtube can defend copyrights of corporations, but not the rights of living people to not have their lives threatened? What if you want to hear Christina Rad, Ashley Paramore, or even Jaclyn Glenn, but you can’t because they have been targeted by misogynists and it has taken a toll?

White Envy not White Entitlement

It looks like I am not the only Asian, who recognized that Elliot Rodger is not quite as white as people think. Although Rodger identified as white, his obsession with blondes may have stemmed from the fact that he didn’t feel white enough. Although Asian voices are seemingly invisible, they can provide valuable insight. This is a close reading of Rodger’s Manifesto by writer Jeff Yang.

But after seeing him consistently described as fitting the “typical mass shooter profile” of a young, mentally disturbed white loner, I realized that both the conventional news and much of social media were making a profound and possibly important error. Because if you’re Asian, a single look at his picture is all you need to realize that Rodger was not white.

Being a Eurasian that doesn’t pass for white, who has a brother that does and identifies as white, I can tell what you look like is not insignificant in how people perceive you and treat you. Although I was recently told by a co-worker that she didn’t know how people recognized me as Asian because I didn’t have tiny eyes. Yang’s analysis is pretty much spot on in what Americans are raised to value.

It turns out that Rodger’s mother is a Malaysian Chinese nurse, who works for film productions. Rodger came to internalize racism against other races and even Asians growing up around the film industry.

In fact, based on the memoir-cum-confession that he left behind, Rodger’s murderous rage was rooted in an obsessive self-hatred, born from his belief that he was entitled to, and thwarted from obtaining, a trifecta of privileges: Race, class, and gender. He saw himself as not quite white enough. Not quite rich enough. Not quite “masculine” enough, in the toxic, testosterone-saturated way that that term is defined in our society.

He expressed surprise and anger at the sight of an Asian talking to a white girl…

“I came across this Asian guy who was talking to a white girl. The sight of that filled me with rage. I always felt as if white girls thought less of me because I was half-Asian, but then I see this white girl at the party talking to a full-blooded Asian. I never had that kind of attention from a white girl!

+

“And white girls are the only girls I’m attracted to, especially the blondes. How could an ugly Asian attract the attention of a white girl, while a beautiful Eurasian like myself never had any attention from them? I thought with rage. I glared at them for a bit, and then decided I had been insulted enough. I angrily walked toward them and bumped the Asian guy aside, trying to act cocky and arrogant to both the boy and the girl.”

In his mind, attaining a white girl would show everyone that he was one of the “cool kids”,and not an “ugly Asian.” I don’t look at this new information about his race as the key to how he became unhinged. It is more interesting to me how toxic the messages our society sends out about what is valuable in a person.

It is still odd that Rodger’s values were so two dimensional and shallow. That he never learned to value things outside of the narrow white supremacist end of the spectrum. We all get these messages as soon as we begin to understand that people are different skin tones. I didn’t know I was different in the mostly white kindergarten I went to until I was teased about it. But throwing a temper tantrum about it won’t change a thing. Learning to unlearn stereotypes and getting to know people as individuals is by far a more enriching experience.

Secular Pro-Life Same Old Scare Tactics

If I were to tell you that a purportedly secular anti-abortion group was engaging in the very same fear mongering and harassment of abortion providers that the largely Christian dominated pro-life groups do; would you be surprised? The True Pooka’s final report on Secular Pro-Life’s tactics is posted.

In addition to the other tactics Pooka documented, the group is promoting a campaign against abortion providers in the guise of concern for the safety of women. According to Pooka, in addition to making stuff up about the safety of abortion to women…

The site also doubles as an intimidation tool to be used against doctors. It doesn’t matter what type of doctor you are, if you’re a family health doctor and abortion consists of 1% of your medical activities, they’ll label you an ABORTION DOCTOR and list your name next to numerous other doctors who secularprolife have judged to be unsafe doctors ( judgment passed using their hard earned degrees in Looking Shit Up On-Line from Internet University).

I know there are people reading this who are not at all surprised by the sliminess. I hope that they haven’t also grown, so calloused by this group and other anti-abortion groups’ relentless assault on the right to choose whether a person gives birth, that these tactics are working.

However, I don’t think this group’s presence at atheist conferences, a group that misrepresents both science and the truth, can be totally explained by its relentless tactics wearing people down.

How did it get past the smell detector?

The group’s members have the appearance of fresh faced kids. Ex-Christians like myself or people with well meaning anti-abortion friends may be mistaking what they are doing with the mistakes we made as Christians. In my Christian past, I have actually given diapers and my daughter’s bassinet to a Christian pregnancy counseling center in hopes of helping women, who wanted to give birth and keep the child.

Looking back on it now, I was misguided. These groups main function is to guilt women with ultrasounds of their fetuses. I remember the tour, and the center’s pride that they had received an ultrasound.

Would you be surprised to learn that the Secular Pro-Life website directs people with crisis pregnancies to Christian counseling centers? This is the picture posted on their resources page…

The group’s defines its secular mission thusly…

Secularism. SPL seeks to increase the inclusiveness of the overall pro-life movement by creating space for pro-life atheists, agnostics, humanists, and other secularists.

I don’t think directing the atheists, agnostics, etc. to a Christian pregnancy center agrees with their purported mission to create a safe space for them. Particularly if they survived spiritual abuse.

This group is not simply misguided. A former member of theirs glibly showed all of us including children in the audience a video of abortions during a debate with Matt Dillahunty. She most definitely had the fresh faced, well meaning look down, even when she showed us the video without batting an eye. She also argued that abortion should be criminalized and prosecuted as murder. Matt’s recent debate with an SPL member showed the same callous lack of regard for women. The Christian debater argued that a woman shouldn’t be allowed to abort a pregnancy that would cripple her.

I don’t ever remember being that inhumane and judgmental at the height of my Christian years, and there is difference between some misguided person that you know or the pro-lifer you may have been and SPL.

As of this moment,  Pooka and I plan on seeing them at The American Atheists Convention in Salt Lake City this weekend. We hope the information we provided helps people to make informed decisions. I can’t help picturing a Reed Warbler unwittingly nurturing an imposter Cuckoo chick.

 

Secular Pro-Life (Anti-choice) Claim: Planned Parenthood Cheats Donors

Apparently, Secular Pro-Life is so irked by Planned Parenthood that they are willing to make unfounded charges about what they do with donations. True Pooka investigates

Now that you’re done reading I’m going to show you a magic trick I call; “Proper research done without confirmation bias followed by conclusions drawn based on experience and not ignorance.”

Planned Parenthood issued a number of statements following the Komen incident. The following press release here gives a more thorough explanation of what they intended to do with the money as opposed to the rather vague “wildest dreams” quote linked by our secularprolife blogger (curiously, the blogger in question didn’t link to this more detailed summary of what Planned Parenthood had in mind).

Up until now, I haven’t seen anyone except Matt Dillahunty and Beth Presswood give SPL the healthy amount of skepticism it really needs. Especially if they are tabling at atheist conventions. More people need to know what they actually do, and you are not going to get that in passing at their table. Why does this group get a pass where another group that attempts to pawn off pseudoscience on the community does not?

 

Courtney Caldwell and Sarah Moglia joining me to discuss secular anti-choice arguments withMSS

So I won’t be the “token woman” on this round of discussion on the Magic Sandwich Show.  Sarah Moglia has already weighed in on her opinion of secular arguments against abortion. Also Courtney Caldwell will be joining the discussion . I first became aware of her when she liveblogged the Wendy Davis filibuster.

Should be an interesting discussion on this topic with well informed women on the topic of reproductive rights. Hopefully we can persuade more people to get off the fence and support reproductive rights and reject irrational anti-choice arguments. This is not an easy discussion for most of us to have, and I hope it will be valuable.

[notice]Magic Sandwich Show at 2:00 PM CST[/notice]

 

 

Secular Pro-Life “Holocaust Baiting” Post 2

The second post looking at Secular Pro-Life’s tactics is up. I hope that informing the community about what they advocate will provide information about SPL for our community to make up their own minds. This series will show that the people at SPL aren’t critical thinkers and haven’t earned the title “freethinker.”

To that aim, the True Pooka, whose family was directly affected by the Holocaust, breaks down the numbers on SPL’s “Are You One in Six Million?” Campaign. The campaign is targeted at how many people they have calculated are secular and anti-choice.  The numbers include all of “The Nones”, including the religious but unchurched -the largest group. He also shows you how the campaign is borrowing persecution from the Holocaust.

What troubles me the most about this group tabling at conventions is that were they advocating another form of woo such as natural cancer cures or Intelligent Design; it would be apparent to an overwhelming number of attendees that they aren’t an acceptable ally. However, we have prominent secularists, stating that while they don’t agree with them that they are suitable allies.  The comments on secular arguments against choice are littered with this sentiment. For a comparison I have not seen an equal sentiment in our community that the creationists that are demanding equal airtime to Cosmos deserve a platform. To borrow a phrase, do we have to be so open minded that our brains fall out?

To remind you this group doesn’t work on anything else other than anti-choice.  It is troubling that it isn’t self evident that abortion rights are a strong secular position.

[notice] I will be on the Magic Sandwich Show tomorrow at 2:00 CST discussing the secular arguments against abortion, and I am confirming two fierce pro-choice feminists to join us. I will announce it once it is confirmed.[/notice]

Secular Pro-Life “Fetus Worshippers”?

Should we defend freethinking spaces from anti-choicers like Secular Pro-Life? I wanted more information on this organization as I have seen them at conventions.  Lucky for me, I know you-tuber True Pooka, who as he will tell you, shares the same concern. He has more experience investigating anti-choice groups than I do. He has shown me things I wouldn’t have seen; even though SPL hides them in plain sight. So I asked him to help me gather information in order to share it with our community. I don’t have faith in anything, but I trust in the people I have communed with at gatherings that they are an intelligent bunch, and can make up their own minds. So here is his first post in a series on what he found when looking at Secular Pro-Life…

We report, you decide, right?

This is his rationale for investigating SPL’s claims…

This is a topic that I’ve always found rather fascinating. I was raised in a strict Judaic upbringing so I’ve always considered the pro-life position on abortion law to represent a two-fold threat; a threat to not just the rights of women but to the right of my religious group of upbringing to practice their religious beliefs when it comes to abortion.
I was also once one of those young men who were placed in the unfortunate position of having to fight his way past protesters to help take a loved one to have a needed abortion, an abortion that she would die without. So I’ve always had a multi-faceted interest in the abortion issue and over the years have done a certain amount of study on the topic. I was genuinely curious because while I’ve heard quite a few arguments against abortion that claim to be secular in nature, as of yet none of those arguments that have been presented to me have been logically consistent. In fact the presentations of the majority of alleged secular arguments against abortion are distinctly religious in nature.

He will get to the meat of what he found this week in the next post.

Lucky for you, you can get a peek of what’s going on in their rationale because Matt Dillahunty is debating one of their openly Christian members this next week on March 25. His last debate with a former SPL member was more like debating someone, who argued like a Christian.

SPL has also taken umbrage at PZ, Greta, and Avicenna’s post on their blog.