Elliot Rodgers was a bloody tragedy.
6 people died while others were injured.
Lets get this straight. We all want to blame one thing and one thing alone for Elliot Rodgers. I don’t see it as that easy. It is clear that Elliot Rodgers was a deeply disturbed man and had a mental health problem. It is also clear that guns and American Culture in humanising and dissecting the lives of those who “went Postal” had a role. It is also clear that the misogyny promoted by the PUA/MRA communities and male privilege played a role.
But the problem is everyone wants their personal “cause” to be the issue. There are people who insist that he has a mental health issue. There are some who insist it is the MRA stuff. There are some blaming guns.
The privilege and mental health created the man, the MRA/PUA gave him his targets. The guns enabled his deadly rampage. All have a role.
But Judgy Bitch doesn’t think so. In a continuing run of “charming” behaviour, she’s out to point out that he didn’t kill people due to misogyny.
Editorial note: we were particularly warmed to see that Jessica Valenti was bold enough to blame this one on misogyny outright. Well done Jessica. Can you illustrate male disposability better? Anyway, readers should expect more on this story in the coming days. –DE
Yes the MRA and PUA movements decided to push their own agendas. Many PUA tried to claim that “if only Elliot joined their ranks” and turned his entitled narcissism towards tricking women into bed. And that is what it is. It is a guy pretending to be something he is not to trick women into bed rather than actually being honest.
Look, I don’t hold myself as an Ideal guy. In fact I am pretty sure I am not. I try my level best but we are all flawed. I do wish to be better and nicer to my girlfriend and I know I try her patience a lot much to the cackling glee of the anti-FTB brigade but I know that what they are doing is not feasible.
But the MRA, rather than look introspectively have decided to try and defend their position by attacking the coverage. And they chose no one better than Janet Bloomfield AKA Judgy Bitch.
By now you have probably heard of the Isla Vista Shooting, carried out by a disturbed young man named Elliot Rodger. Elliot, who may have had autism and/or Asperger’s Syndrome, was living in a facility designed to help him address awkward social skills. Elliot was part of an on-line community called PUAHate, a website devoted to revealing ‘the scams, deception, and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to deceive men and profit from them.’ Elliot posted some very disturbing videos on YouTube in which he rails against the women who rejected his advances and muses about killing all the men on the planet except for himself.
He may have had Cysticercosis and Daemonic Possession (Sorry… been on a Supernatural Binge….) for all we know. Autism doesn’t make you violent. We can argue for a variety of health issues ranging from Autism to Psychosis to Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The fact is? We don’t know. We know he had a therapist. We have inklings from his work and how he thought. But the patient is deceased and the only thing we know from that is suggestions and inklings of what could be the problem.
Elliot was a misogynist. Judgy Bitch claims to not be one. Except as we recall she slut shamed a minor as a “helmet bunny” implying she was raped because she wanted to date the Football Team when in reality she was raped because she said “no” to them. Judgy was more worried about their sports careers rather than the young lady’s life that was ruined by privilege. She weighed on the side of the bullies and the hate.
The same helmet bunnies that Elliot wished to kill.
It seems that Elliot was an equal opportunity hate monger, torn between wanting to kill women and wanting to kill men. Ultimately, when the bullets started flying, he killed 6 men and 2 women, and he injured several others, whose gender is not clear at the moment.
He also killed himself.
I understand Judgy Bitch’s dialogue. It means ignoring reality to maintain the delusion of the MRA.
In the case of the Steubenville rape, she kept maintaining that the young girl should not have wanted to socialise and should not have fancied the footballers in a town that idolised sport. That she got what she deserved. Funny how she ignores the man’s own words. Some of us read the entire damn manifesto you know.
Elliot hated women. He hated the fact that women kept going for inferior men. He bought into the Alpha/Beta bullshit of the MRA movement. That the real way to get a girlfriend is to behave like an absolute bell end.
He hated the PUA not because they were men, but because they were taking women he felt could do better. The entire argument he had was that precious white ladies were dating inferior men with inferior skin colours, inferior brutish behaviour and inferior cars. He hated men because he saw them as betrayers who fell for women and their lies. They were turncoats who denied him his true birthright.
A hot babe who agreed with him and did everything to please him.
’ll confess it came as a shock to me to see the actions of this deeply distraught, confused individual linked wholesale to the Men’s Rights Movement. The Daily Kostook no time to proclaim Rodger was “influenced” by the MHRM, although it presents absolutely zero evidence that this was, in fact, the case.
Sure, he shared the same thoughts as many of your members, he did the same things as they did. The only difference is that he acted out.
Except that all the links the KOS posts lead to Pick Up Artist sites, and none lead to MHRM sites.
The PUA are related to the MRA.
The difference is ideological, the MRA bemoan feminism for ruining women. The PUA try to lure women into bed.
Listen when you have to lure, trick or trap women into giving you sex then your movement has a problem.
Jezebel commenters are quick to repeat the same error, insisting that Pick Up Artists and Men’s Rights Activists are one and the same – something that would almost be amusing if they stopped to consider the number of married women with children who are part of the MHRM. How exactly are we Pick Up Artists?
SPLC commenters make the same connection, again with no evidence at all.
Oh we are both misogynists but the Pick Up Artists are the entitled Jerks.
Not the Rape Apologist who thought sports was more important posting on a website that tried to defend Indian Culture‘s misogyny by claiming it didn’t exist because women had segregated seating while trying to imply that the Indian man was akin to Rosa Parks. Not for the same reason Japanese women have their own seating (because of grope culture). And the same website that tried to claim that women In Afghanistan were not so badly treated by throwing their hat in with Islamic Apologists.
To the casual new observer to A Voice For Men, this may fly but we paid attention to all of this.
If you are new to this argument? I urge you to read these just to see the depths the MRA will go to, to create a dialogue that ignores real problem. To the MRA, India and Afghanistan had to be portrayed as feminist societies and ignore women in order to create the notion that men across the planet are oppressed.
Paul Elam himself has tried to claim that being a woman in India is better than being untouchable. Never mind the fact that both are different issues and Indian untouchable women exist too. And he lives in some rather strange world where he thinks that poor Indian women stay at home. Not do back breaking labour alongside men for less pay.
The dialogue of male oppression that pervades the MRA movement is what Elliot Rodger bought into. The MRA simply wish to distance themselves from it. My links show otherwise.
Jessica Valenti proclaims that “misogyny kills”, blithely unconcerned with the fact that more men than women were killed. Killing men is misogyny? That’s an interesting interpretation.
Dear Judgy Bitch.
Some of us read the damn news.
Elliot Rodger failed in his plans. His original plan was to kill his flatmates. Succeeded. Then he was planning to attack a sorority. You know. To kill “sluts” because Sorority Girls are sluts. Stuck Up Blondes. But he failed. Apparently he couldn’t get into the Sorority house of the Alpha Alphas. The irony of his choice is not lost on me. So he shot two girls outside. Because they were “Sorority Girls”. He then shot at others as he drove along which was the third part of his plan.
He killed more men than women simply because his plan failed. The girls in the house would not open the door for him. His rampage was cut shot by being wounded. The men he killed was one innocent by stander. His flatmates were killed because they feared for their lives. He blamed them for calling the cops. He also planned to kill his family but decided against it because he feared he may “wuss out” so planned the event for when they were not around. His flatmates had to die because they had girlfriends and because they complained about his actions. Like playing music late at night.
Judgy Bitch’s literal defence of the MRA is that Elliot Rodger failed in the plan to kill women, so he cannot be a misogynist. Never mind the entire manifesto.
While it clear to me that nothing more than ignorance and prejudice is informing these writers about the MHRM and MRAs, I wonder how the association between PUA and the MHRM came to be? Because I came to the MHRM out of a concern for the legal and social equality of men and women, and not out of bitterness born from dating and interacting, I know very, very little about the PUA community. I have encountered Chateau Heartiste, and have even written posts pointing out that some of his material is terribly mistaken, but I do not recall ever encountering any serious discussion of political and social issues that affect men and boys on his website.
Ah yes! An attempt to create social equality by blaming the victim of an outright rape captured on camera as slut shaming, defending the rapists and participating in the bullying of an underaged rape victim. That’s an awfully short pony you are flogging as a high horse.
And the most poignant irony for me is that Elliot was a member of an ANTI-PUA site, so not even part of the PUA community at all. His fantasies included killing both men and women, but the focus appears to be stubbornly on how much he hated women. He killed more men than women, and yet the focus is stubbornly on the female victims.
The PUA Hate site is not about hating PUA but hating women who fell for the PUA.
That’s his entire dialogue. He bemoans that women are falling for douchebags and that he cannot possibly be one. It isn’t self doubt where people think “oh she cannot possibly like me” but “why won’t she like me”. It was straight woman bashing.
The only conclusion I can come to is that this is political grandstanding, with no evidence or facts to support the assertion that Elliot was a member of any MHRM communities. In a desperate attempt to paint the MHRM as violent and hateful, prominent media feminists are ignoring evidence and body counts to create an association between the desire for social equality and murderous rampages.
This is both sad and totally expected. Sad that feminists will take the dead bodies of innocent young people and parade them as evidence for something that doesn’t exist and never has. Sad that media feminists will step over the bodies of dead and injured men to fuss and fawn over dead and injured women and then claim they are interested in equality. Sad that feminists will mourn dead women but not dead men. And sad that feminists will insist that a community of men and women working to ensure that both boys and girls, both men and women, are treated fairly and equally are the reason for Elliot’s tragic, deadly outburst.
Elliot Rodger made his misogyny very clear. You can see it in his videos, in his internet postings and most of all in his 140-page “manifesto,” which is filled with angry hatred of women and people of colour who he deemed “inferior” and elaborate fantasies of violence towards them. His misogyny was largely driven by sexual entitlement: he desired women intensely but they wanted nothing to do with him. This could be because they were smart or because he seems to not speak to them at all. The entire dialogue of his manifesto is one of privilege.
Judgy Bitch HAS to destroy the claim that the 140 page manuscript and youtube videos REPEATEDLY blaming women has nothing to do with misogyny.
“The most beautiful of women choose to mate with the most brutal of men, instead of magnificent gentlemen like myself. Women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made for them by rational men of intelligence. If women continue to have rights, they will only hinder the advancement of the human race by breeding with degenerate men and creating stupid, degenerate offspring. This will cause humanity to become even more depraved with each generation. Women have more power in human society than they deserve, all because of sex. There is no creature more evil and depraved than the human female.
Women are like a plague. They don’t deserve to have any rights. Their wickedness must be contained in order prevent future generations from falling to degeneracy. Women are vicious, evil, barbaric animals, and they need to be treated as such. … All women must be quarantined like the plague they are, so that they can be used in a manner that actually benefits a civilized society. …
The first strike against women will be to quarantine all of them in concentration camps. At these camps, the vast majority of the female population will be deliberately starved to death. That would be an efficient and fitting way to kill them all off. I would take great pleasure and satisfaction in condemning every single woman on earth to starve to death.” – From Elliot’s Manifesto
Not Misogynistic At All. The most charitable thing I can say here is Janet Bloomfield hasn’t read the manifesto.
What I wish to say is that she wishes to manipulate the dialogue among MRA and provide the notion that these common everyday ideas are pushed around by many MRA members and websites in order to save face. The solution to the misogyny within the MRA movement is to realise it exists.
The fact is that Elliot’s outburst does indeed highlight an issue of central importance to the MHRM – the inadequate, almost non-existent treatment of mental health problems for young men. Socially, our treatment seems to be to wait until the tortured young man puts a bullet in his own head, and just pray that he doesn’t take innocent victims with him.
Vincent Van Gogh was tortured.
This guy was a privileged arsehole who lived in the lap of luxury and a step away from major fame and celebrity who demanded women love him and worship him because of his warped perception of self worth and when said worship did not occur, he attempted to kill as many people as possible with the aim of striking fear in the hearts of those who slighted him. Mainly popular “high class” girls and the “brutes” who dated them. In short? Pretty women and their dates.
As a strategy for health, it’s not working very well.
Actually, our young man was getting the care he needed but the problem with narcissism is that people who have a pathological level of it don’t listen to their doctors and have poor compliance. Risperidone has other uses.
Compare that to how we respond to women who are mentally fragile after giving birth. We screen for Post Partum Depression and throw money and resources into keeping both the women and their children safe, because if we don’t do that, a lot ofbabies will end up dead. Women struggle with mental issues, too, and take it out on the innocent. But rather than ignore those women and hope for the best, we create programs designed to identify and help them.
Awww… You were so close. You were this close to discussing a men’s issue without slagging off women but guess what?
I as a frontline medic would make the tentative diagnosis of a mental health issue and a call for Psychiatric Evaluation.
But here is the thing. Judgy Bitch’s diagnosis relies on two key points.
1. A completely quackish diagnosis of his mental health
2. Ignoring his entire 140 page manifesto about hating women.
There was tons of evidence, especially on YouTube that Elliot was a dangerously unwell person, struggling with demons he likely could not understand and certainly could not cope with. A society that had true compassion for men and boys would respond to hurting men like Elliot, the same way we respond to hurting women.
No. There was evidence for narcissism to the point of pathology. He literally believed the world revolved around him and came up with ridiculous plans to acquire women. None of which included just talking to one. It was always “try and impress women with car” or “with obscene wealth, so win the lottery”.
The patriarchy cuts both ways. Boys Don’t Cry after all.
But this again ignores all that misogyny he was packing.
So in that sense, yes Elliot is linked to the MHRM and MRAs. He is one of the men and boys we are fighting for. If we had stepped in, Elliot would be alive. His life matters, too. If we had resources and means to assist young men struggling to integrate into our complex society, his victims would be alive.
In the same way that all serial murderers lives matters. Yes but not compared to their victims.
Two beautiful young women lost their lives in Isla Vista. But so did four beautiful young men. And thirteen other people were wounded. Either way, they deserve our compassion, too. They are more than grindstones on which to sharpen a political axe.
Because men are people, too. Why is that so hard for some people to remember?
TL DR – Your entire argument hinges on an ignorance of the Manifesto and the fact that his rampage failed on the “Kill Sorority Girls” part and in the hope that casual readers don’t read any of the MRA’s past exploits.