A Voice for Me – Fake Rape and Not Helping Anyone


One of the problems with the MRA community is that the genuine issues that affect men tends to get ignored in exchange for simply bashing a straw (wo)man. It’s easy to dismiss it as the last hurrah of the privileged losing their privileges.

It was the victim of a “fake rape” accusation. There are two opinions as to why I was accused of raping a woman at TAM (an Event I Never Attended). One it was a casual effort to silence me among the myriad other demands to keep me quiet. Or two it was an argument being made against PZ Myers and I was just “collateral damage”. A fair target for many since they insist my problem is not my statements but the soapbox I stand on.

And I pointed out that this accusation didn’t help anyone. It didn’t help the victims of rape. It didn’t help me. It didn’t help the victims of fake rape accusations. All it did was add a case where I had to defend myself against frankly slanderous comments made under the aegis of anonymity. Women would be told how this case was another example of fake rape that is “so common”. And male victims of fake rape would be harassed as much.

It was a fake accusation. Judging from my messages it was to win an Internet argument. People assumed my shield of anonymity which I was shedding at that point would keep me safe from repercussions. I was the Baldr to throw spears and axes at. An invulnerable figure whose anonymity would keep safe. And considering my reputation for working with women, such accusations would have been quickly quashed. It made me seriously consider my decision to swap from an anonymous stance to an IRL one and made me rule on the side of anonymity.

To these people my reputation and my work meant nothing more than winning a stupid Internet slap fight. I am still unsure of people responsible for this but it quickly stopped when I upped the stakes and admitted the accusations and let the evidence speak because I had the alibi of being across the entire planet. I suffered, as did Hera. To this day I don’t know if it was the MRA of the anti-FTB brigade but the actions are similar and there is a decent enough overlap in that Venn diagram.

Well the lovely MRA did it again.

Occidental College had a rape report system which allowed for anonymous reports. Victims could report anonymously allowing the college to investigate. And this was easy to use and a system that benefitted all victims of rape.

But members of Reddit and 4Chan’s MRA brigade decided that it made fake reports too easy and the only way to improve the system is to do away with rape reporting as a whole.

“Feminists at Occidental College created an online form to anonymously report rape/sexual assault. You just fill out a form and the person is called into the office on a rape charge. The ‘victim’ never has to prove anything or reveal their identity,”

If only we treated other crime this way. I am sorry Avicenna! We cannot believe you were robbed by two people. We can believe that you viciously assaulted a man with a weapon (a dog) and then proceeded to endanger a dog’s life by cruel usage to torment an armed man who you framed using some laughable story about an attempted house robbery. Where are the affidavits of witnesses?

The problem with the MRA is that they would only accept rape if the entire rape was properly witnessed and the rapist was caught in flagrante.

So they had to fix this.

Over 500 reports were made about sexual assault, harassment and rape by the brave heroes of the MRA who dealt a decisive blow by naming Occidental College, Feminists and a variety of charming names for women as the perpetrators of their rape. I have seen the problem with such a system before. The usage of VAERS by the anti-vax to add fake and unproved medical cases to poison the well.

The amusing thing is the Admin of the college responded with the very British and very sarcastic statement that the reports “were clearly not made in good faith”.

400 Reports in just 36 hours, this was the scale of the project to damage a rape report scheme.

The amusing thing is this is fighting genuine change that Occidental College is trying to make. The College has been accused of covering up rapes, retaliating against activists for better systems and is currently undergoing a federal investigation into it’s handling of sexual assaults including allegedly punishing perpetrators of sexual assaults with “extra homework” rather than “the law”. There are similarities to the Catholic Church where penance was seen as a sufficient punishment rather than rendering unto Caesar.

And this is a problem in every campus across the developed world.

The system was designed to combat under-reporting. Because the major issue in sexual crime is that it is under-reported. The victims do not wish to be known because of the social stigma and indeed because they would have to deal with the “It’s not real rape” arguments.

But the MRA movement alleges that such efforts to reduce sexual assault end up victimising men who become the subject of false rapes. And there are plenty of examples of such silencing tactics. If you don’t want my story as an example? Then let’s look at the young lady from Ohio who was WRONGLY harassed by the MRA after they posted her address, phone number and email until she dropped out of her course. Because she looked like someone who had possibly made a fake rape accusation.

And this didn’t help anyone. No one benefitted from this action.

Not the victims of rape nor the victims of fake rape accusations. The men who suffer from fake accusations are not going to benefit from the poisoning of the well by multiple pointless fake accusations that warp the statistics. Between 2 to 5% of all reported rapes are based on false claims and in many cases due to the way our justice system works, a fake crime is punished with greater sentences than the real crime where in many cases a criminal case cannot be created as easily.

The world is changing, women and indeed other people who were disenfranchised are trying to break down the enforced power structures to create a fairer society which means the loss of the rights that people with privilege took for granted. And this means that people are going to think they are being discriminated against.

To the MRA this was not a stupid plan that harmed everyone but a plan that would disrupt the dialogue where 1000s of innocent young men are jailed for having sex with women who change their minds.

It doesn’t help anyone. Not the men and definitely not the women.

Comments

  1. Holms says

    I suspect no one is surprised at this development. It is well known that the MRA movement *could* have affected positive change if only they had stuck to their purported goals, but have long since been polluted by spite, resentment, stupidity and arseholery.

  2. hjhornbeck says

    Between 2 to 5% of all reported rapes are based on false claims and in many cases due to the way our justice system works, a fake crime is punished with greater sentences than the real crime where in many cases a criminal case cannot be created as easily.

    I’ve got a bit of a problem with that. Most attempts to gauge false reports compare what the researchers think is a probable false report to a conviction based on evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. By using different levels of evidence, you wind up falsely inflating the numbers.

    If you compare convictions for false reports to convictions of sexual assault, you get a lower number. In this case, using prosecutions as a proxy of convictions, we get a false report rate of 0.6%.

  3. abear says

    Hi Avi; I hope you and Tigger are getting back to normal. I was held up at knife point before and one can get a bit shook up when things like that happen.

    If only we treated other crime this way. I am sorry Avicenna! We cannot believe you were robbed by two people. We can believe that you viciously assaulted a man with a weapon (a dog) and then proceeded to endanger a dog’s life by cruel usage to torment an armed man who you framed using some laughable story about an attempted house robbery. Where are the affidavits of witnesses?

    Where were people writing this about you? It sounds a bit hyperskeptical.
    Also, have the robbers been caught yet? If justice is done here I’m sure all your readers are interested in hearing about it. Also Tigger.

  4. says

    abear!

    No!!! I Was trying to frame my robbery in the style of how rape victims would be forced to justify their actions and how they may be blamed for their robbery. No one’s actually said this! Hence the “If Only We Treated Other Crimes This Way!” which referred to rape!

    I had a bout of MRSA and had to go on Vancomycin. The dog’s healing fine. I would photograph our war wounds but I have no camera until February.

    A

  5. smrnda says

    I wanted to point out that, in the US, police departments often provide means for people to provide anonymous tips about crime, either through a phone number or perhaps some online means, which is roughly analogous to what Occidental College has done. The ‘anonymous tips’ haven’t caused any comparable outrage that people will phone in and try to sell innocent people out as criminals – I’m assuming false and malicious reports can and are made, but it’s the job of the police to investigate reports. I haven’t heard of any organized attempt to flood anonymous tip lines with false reports to protest the potential for abuse.

    But, once the issue is *specifically rape* and not just *crime* it seems to change where all of a sudden it’s horrible that an anonymous report can be made, but this apparently wasn’t the case when the crimes were things like murder, drug dealing, weapons charges, theft or such.

  6. Holms says

    You have the right to face your accuser. Sixth Amendment.

    Read post #5 and explain why this is a problem for rape, but not for (potentially) murder.

  7. Philip R. says

    They accused me of rape and pedophilia.

    For a group that’s obsessed with stopping false accusations they certainly make quite a few themselves.

  8. mofa says

    So Avicenna what are your thoughts on PZ making accusations against Shermer? I am guessing that what you and Shermer have gone through would be very stressful and unpleasant, but who do you side with? Do you think that a blog space should be used as a courtroom? Are you a skeptic? Is blood thicker than water? Who should be believed in any situation? Can our memory be trusted? Can a socio political agenda impact ones skepticism? What is fair? What is justice? Do good people lie? So many questions to think about.

  9. says

    Actually the issue is the MAJORITY of Rape cases never get to the court room because rape as a crime is so hard to prove. Only in the minority where the victim IMMEDIATELY presents themselves to a trained specialist does the case make it to the courts.

    Most victims of rape due to the logistics of forensics will never get justice. It’s the “problem” with punishing this crime. it’s not just social but also scientific barriers to it’s’ prosecution.

    We can say “sex occurred”, we cannot say “rape occurred”. And there are other problems too. Many men are shamed into not reporting rapes and many women found themselves experiencing pleasure that they were ashamed of.

    So they seek help too late to make any sort of case that will have a chance of ever getting to a trial.

    Now here is the thing. What we have here is a report. A report from PZ Myers about a friend.

    Now here is another thing. The BIGGEST draw to this Network is PZ Myers. By a goddamn long shot. The man pulls in a million to two million hits a month with ease. I don’t even make 10% of that. People come here to read what he says and this is a massive audience built up over decades.

    Now think about what would happen if his readers found out that PZ Myers has been making things up about Michael Shermer? For PZ the backlash of those accusations would have damaged his reputation EVEN more than Shermer’s. Both his career as an atheist and his career as a scientist would be in shambles. We aren’t talking about the likes of Thunderfoot who’s still got a bigger set of hardcore fans than I do readers because sufficient people agree with his tactics.

    PZ Myer’s entire readership has a massive hatred for such behaviour and had he done this he would lose upwards of 90% of his readership. In short? He would self destruct.

    PZ Myers was passing on the story from a friend who had experienced it but wished to be anonymous.

    In the same way that we cheered and jeered the Catholic Church when their paedophile cover ups became public news.

    So clearly there is a source that he values sufficiently to RISK all the hard work he has achieved over decades on by associating with. Which means it’s someone he trusts rather than someone on the Internet since you don’t get a blog with that sort of readership by trusting random people on the Internet and passing on hearsay and gossip.

    So with that in mind I am willing to say that he is not making a fake rape accusation but passing on information relayed to him by someone who he holds dear.

    And that this is likely to be more real as a case than claiming I was involved in raping a “woman” at The Amazing Meeting 2013 when I had never been to TAM EVER!

    And this post of yours seems to want to derail the conversation from Occidental…

  10. prodegtion says

    @7 – You have the right to face your accuser no matter what, whether the accusation is rape or murder.

  11. prodegtion says

    @10 – Actually, that’s true of all crimes, not just rape, and it’s a consequence of having a high standard of evidence in our justice system.

    And yes, that is EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED to PZ; his popularity has dropped like a stone.

    But anyway, under the sixth amendment you do not get to make a criminal accusation anonymously. You have the right to face your accuser.

    PZ is guilty of libel until he reveals the identity of the accusers.

  12. Holms says

    #11
    @7 – You have the right to face your accuser no matter what, whether the accusation is rape or murder.

    I see you have yet to read post 5; or at least, you have not addressed it. Which makes it surprising that you would address a post (mine) that asked you to read and answer post 5, yet still ignore 5.

    So, to restate the problem posed in post #5: if anonymous tipping is such a breach of the right to confront one’s accuser, why are anonymous tipping hotlines free of such abuse? Why is anonymous tipping only a Bad Thing if it is made specifically for people to report rape, rather than general crime?

    Additionally, it is commonly claimed by the MRA types that mmalicious, false rape accusations are common. If anonymous tipping is so easy to abuse, why is the only highly visible case of abuse stemming directly from the MRA movement? The data set they *might* have been able to point to in order to make their case has now been poisoned by their own stupid malice.

    #12
    And yes, that is EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED to PZ; his popularity has dropped like a stone.

    Do you have actual site traffic statistics to prove this, or are you merely going along with anecdotal evidence? Strange that you are so sceptical of some things but so accepting of other things that suit you.

    But anyway, under the sixth amendment you do not get to make a criminal accusation anonymously. You have the right to face your accuser.

    This statement flies in the face of the existence of tipping hotlines, which you have yet to address. So no.

  13. Holms says

    Nearly forgot to add:

    PZ is guilty of libel until he reveals the identity of the accusers.

    If that is true for him, then it is also true for every MRA that filed a false rape complaint at the university. So, a nice steaming dollop of shitty hypocrisy right there.

    If you object to false rape allegations, DON’T FUCKING FILE FALSE RAPE ALLEGATIONS.

  14. smrnda says

    Yes, I notice that even after I pointed out that the existence of anonymous tip hotlines for crimes other than rape the ‘you have the right to face your accuser’ popped up without any reference to that fact or how this is handled in practice.

    The other issue is, if this right exists, then you have the right to face your accuser *in court once the trial is going on.* If I report John Q Shithead is committing crimes against humanity, it’s not like once the report rolls in, the police have to have a little meeting with me and John Q Shithead where we supposedly argue it out *prior to any arrest even being made.* That comes later, in the court phase, after an investigation is made by the police and after John Q Shithead is charged.

  15. Nepenthe says

    But anyway, under the sixth amendment you do not get to make a criminal accusation anonymously.

    And under prodegtion’s theory of jurisprudence, you don’t get to make an accusation of rape unless you have a video of yourself being raped with audio where you can be clearly heard saying no. Why focus on anonymous tips when all rape reports are invalid?

  16. smrnda says

    Actually, I used to read a lot of true crime books. Now and then, the police receive an anonymous tip about a suspect and that tip provides evidence that is later relevant in the prosecution and conviction of the suspect. I would imagine that additional evidence would need to be collected, but anonymous tips have led to people being prosecuted, and the identity of the anonymous tipster is sometimes never known.

  17. mofa says

    Avicenna, your theory that PZ had too much to lose by running with the story, so it must be true- does not win over my skeptical nature. Personalities like PZ can be prone to an over inflated ego and they can also make tactical mistakes. Some people are absolutely brilliant when it comes to science and/or setting up popular blog space, but utter crap at the law and the legal system. If you share no empathy with Michael Shermer, if you do not feel for the man after what you have been through then I am wasting my time having any discussion with you (and I say this with a strong mental image of the way that Tim Minchin puts it in the last lines of his beat poem “Storm”).

  18. says

    Mofa’s claim to be “skeptical” is very amusing … Unless he means in the denialist climate change “skeptic” use of the word he is not being at all skeptical. In the absence of any motive on PZ’s part but multiple corroborated accounts that the accuser is real and trustworthy he chooses to assume PZ etc are lying and made it all up. That’s not skepticism. Or maybe he can encompass in his conspiracy theory how PZ managed to get Carrie Poppy for one to join in his “tactical mistake” and publicly state she knows the accuser?

    Oh and to all those saying PZ’s popularity has dropped – for a start, so what? Surely you are not claiming that has any bearing on the truth of his claims? Skepticool points are at stake here! Secondly the only stats I’ve seen are totally unreliable ones from Alexa etc. Avi has access to the real thing, if he says he is getting x million per month I think I’ll believe him over those, like Thunderf00t, hawking obviously flawed figures in an embarrassing display of their lack of “skeptical” ability.

  19. prodegtion says

    By that standard, there are also multiple corroborated accounts that God exists, and that Jesus rose from the dead. Lee Strobel used that exact argument. And he’s actually right.

    Good thing testimony is not evidence.

  20. Holms says

    Not even remotely comparable. The one similarity is that yes they both have multiple people making a similar claim, but from there they diverge.

    Just for starters, one claim is entirely reasonable: a man made inappropriate secual advances toward an unwilling woman. That exact sequence of events has been recorded out many times over in history, giving us massive precedent; the claim is already believable in that we know it is at least possible. The only thing remaining unknown is whether a particular Big Name Athiest happened to do it, everything else is fine.

    The God hypothesis is of course utterly unlike that in terms of precedent. There are more reasons, but one is enough to establish that your comparison is facetious and inapplicable.

    Hence we dismiss your rebuttal as ineffective.

    Therefore, the point stands that anonymous testimony is not inherently bad.

    Therefore, the point stands that the MRA false reports of rape against university staff is not justified, which does not even touch on the other points thatthe act was massively hypocritical, malicious, and dishonest.

    Frankly, it is fucking pathetic that your efforts to defend the latest MRA outrageousness range over multiple stadard MRA / anti FTB idiocies. It also reeks of dishonesty – you’ll defend any old shit, even the blatanly awful, if it allows you toscore some points against FTB.

  21. prodegtion says

    The fact remains that scientific study after scientific study has proven that testimony is incredibly unreliable. Firstly, the human memory is scarily error-prone. Then there’s the fact that people misreport even their conception of the events (which is faulty in the first place).

  22. prodegtion says

    Another thing is confirmation bias: people believe things that they want to be true. This is why religion persists.

  23. prodegtion says

    Do you have any SCIENTIFIC evidence that the accusations are true? Any REPRODUCIBLE and PRECISE evidence?

  24. Nepenthe says

    Scientifically speaking, rape rates are precisely correlated with the number of CCTV cameras in an area, since rape can only happen if its recorded on video. Therefore, the best way to solve the crisis of rape is to get rid of all the video cameras. Then literally no one will ever be raped again. Also, rape was invented around the turn of the 20th century by Louis Le Prince or William Kennedy Dickson. The More You Know!

  25. prodegtion says

    You don’t get to make an accusation of rape unless you have EVIDENCE of the rape. What about this do you not understand? What are you saying? That you don’t need evidence?

  26. says

    Prodegtion –

    You do realise the ENTIRE Catholic Paedophilia scandal in Ireland was built on No Hard Evidence.

    The majority of rapes have no evidence. What you can say is “Interecourse happened”. If the woman fought back then her injuries may be severe enough to have sexual intercourse with assault indicating rape or defensive wounds indicating rape.

    But if she did not fight back or was drugged or the power difference was high then she would not have defensive wounds and we would have to rely on testimony.

    Seriously? Not every rape has 4 male witnesses.

  27. Nepenthe says

    Oh come on Avicenna, all those priests were obviously railroaded. Don’t you know that not only is it not rape if it’s not on video, but <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/brutereason/2013/09/12/all-nonconsensual-sex-is-sexual-assault-how-we-categorize-and-minimize-rape/#comment-17404"raping children isn't a crime at all if they don’t say no forcefully enough.

    My question is, do I get to tell my family about being raped, even if I don’t have a videotape of it? What if I don’t name the rapist? Do I even get to know that I’ve been raped or must I chalk the whole thing up to faulty memory, along with the other portions of my life that haven’t been photographically documented?

  28. Holms says

    Prodection, you are wandering far afield in your efforts to defend the MRA false rape bullshit. For starters, you still have not read, or at least not addressed post #5. Namely, if anonymous reports are bad and abuseable in general, why have the brave MRA internet warriors left the usual crime tip hotlines alone? This has been asked of you about four times now.

    Of course, this has not stopped you bringing up unrelated crap as a way of answer dodging the question, and you’ve been wrong every time. The sixth amendment for example does not have relevance to the question of anonymous tipping because the tip is first checked for validity. If it is useful, a case is built with the whichever policing methods apply, and eventually something will (maybe) come of it and reach court. Then the accused gets his day in court as per usual. Better still, if it is a criminal (as opposed to civil) case, there is no need to even bring forth the accuser – the plaintiff is the crown / state itself.

    Not there was really any need to outline any legal procedure at all, because the mere fact that multiple levels of police make use of tipping hotlines should be clue enough that tipping hotlines are not in breach of the constitution.

    Oh oh then you took an excursion into Shermerland, because that’s even further removed from the topic at hand but hey, who gives a shit about relevance when you can score some cliched anti-FTB points amirite? Worse still when you compare a pattern of worrying anecdata all naming one man independantly as somehow being equivalent to a whole bunch of people saying that god exists. Oh and ‘testimony is unreliable’, even though the largely British court system we have has used testimony for a good millennia or so by now.

    Whatever, dude. Answer a single goddamn question (preferably the one from post 5) and then you may actually be treated with something less then derision.

  29. mofa says

    Oolo0n said:

    “In the absence of any motive on PZ’s part but multiple corroborated accounts that the accuser is real and trustworthy he chooses to assume PZ etc are lying and made it all up. That’s not skepticism”

    True skepticism is to have neutral view on the claim that PZ made until real evidence surfaces but at the same time one must scratch ones head and ask certain questions of PZ: is this at all a suitable place for making such accusations PZ!? If you really believe in your source then you should get the police involved surely PZ!? This information you give us is only hearsay PZ and surely you can see this?

    PZ DOES have motives, just as you Ool0n have similar motives to act the way you do, and others like you. The feminist agenda and the narrative that stems from feminist theory requires men and masculinity to be seen as bad, negative, threatening, in need of correction. Fuel is needed to keep the fire of feminism burning. If a certain group of people make a claim about the nature of skeptical/atheist conferences and this claim turns out to be lacking in substance then the face saving tactic is to exaggerate current or past events or just to simply make stuff up. You Ool0n and your mate PZ and many of his followers are the ‘keepers of the flame’. And you lot are not going to let that flame die out. There is plenty of motivation for desperate people to cut down tall poppies, especially if they don’t see eye to eye with your socio political ideology. (thanks for putting me on Blockbot level 2 by the way, I wear it like a badge of honour)

  30. says

    Prodegtion is not correct, as I’ve had the issue explained to me. Anonymous reports of crimes are just that – reports – which, in terms of ‘facing the accuser’ re: the sixth amendment, is not the equal of ‘accusing’. The police will typically investigate the report – if justified , then legal proceedings commence.

    At which point, the State becomes the accuser.

    The ‘accuser’ in this case is the State – as in ‘The State vs Accused Murderer’, and all sixth protections are in place. Note specifically the case resulting from this report is not ‘Anonymous Reporter vs Accused Murderer’.

    You don’t have to like it – or agree with it – but, at least in most states, this is how the difference between ‘reporting’ and ‘accusing’ is dealt with at the legal level.

    In summary – semantics makes a lot of difference when in the legal arena.

    Now , Prodegtion, you can go away well informed – or not. Going away being the key phrase.

  31. prodegtion says

    Have any of you even READ the constitution????

    THE SIXTH AMENDMENT:
    “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”

    To be confronted with the WITNESSES against him. So it does NOT apply just to the state. But I’m amazed I have to explain this, because I thought it was common knowledge. I’m sure you guys did so well in civics class.

  32. Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk says

    prodegation: In all criminal prosecutions

    I think it is you who didn’t quite read the constitution there, champ. And you still haven’t addressed the issue of tip lines.

  33. Jacob Schmidt says

    In all criminal prosecutions…”

    Gen pointed it out as well, but it bears repeating. If the witnesses account was counted as evidence in a criminal trial, then yes, the accused would have the right to address said witness in court, and only in court.

    Now what criminal prosecution are you banging on about? ‘Cause I don’t see one.

  34. Holms says

    Hey, did anyone else notice prodegtion’s changed wording? Previously, it was:

    “You have the right to face your accuser.” – Post 6

    “You have the right to face your accuser no matter what, whether the accusation is rape or murder.” – Post 11

    “But anyway, under the sixth amendment you do not get to make a criminal accusation anonymously. You have the right to face your accuser.
    PZ is guilty of libel until he reveals the identity of the accusers.” – Post 12

    “You don’t get to make an accusation of rape unless you have EVIDENCE of the rape.” Post 26

    Then when he scrurries off to grab the text of the amendment, he switches to witness without missing a beat. Prodegtion: WITNESS and ACCUSER are not the same thing. A person can call to alert police vie tip hotlines or even 911 (in USA) or 000 (here in Australia) without identifying themselves. “Oh shit I just saw a woman getting assaulted in an alley at [address], come quick!” as an example. The cops then show up, investigate, gather the relevant details from the scene and anyone involved, make arrests if there is sufficient cause to do so, and bring the case to trial.

    This is where the state in which the crime took place becomes the accuser. Got that? The state is the accuser. During this trial, the evidence that has been gathere will be brought in. This evidence can include eyewitness testimony. Did you notice that bit as well? Witness accounts are considered to be valid evidence.

    Even the victim of the crime is considered to be a witness rather than accuser. Granted, the accused has the right to face the witnesses used in the trial. Note that that means if the victim is not used as a witness, there is no need for him / her to take the stand or even attend the trial.

    Also, note:

    “Good thing testimony is not evidence.” – Post 20
    “The fact remains that scientific study after scientific study has proven that testimony is incredibly unreliable. ” – Post 22

    NOPE. To reiterate: witness accounts are considered admissable evidence for trials, so fuck off with your legal ineptitude.

    ————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    ALL OF WHICH IS BESIDE THE POINT OF THIS POST ANYWAY SO FUCK YOU FOR TRYING TO DERAIL IT.
    ————————————————————————————————————————————————–

    Remember, the entire point of this post was to talk about the MRA idiocy against an anonymous rape system for university students. Why protest against anonymous rape reporting but not against anonymous any crime at all reporting, which can potentially include rape anyway?

  35. says

    Puddington also didn’t address the issue of people sharing their experiences with other people in order to help them stay out of trouble. There’s nothing in the Constitution that says you can’t talk to, say, your friends or coworkers, about a criminal incident that happened to you in the past; or add your experiences to an institution’s study or other database. Especially when said institution is, say, a college that’s responsible for the physical safety of paying clients on its turf.

  36. spectator says

    #38 is a new one for me.
    Is flattery a new kinder, gentler way to spam?

    Or it could be a little fat-shaming while we’re recovering from stuffing our faces for the past month whilst celebrating the holidays.

  37. says

    @Mofa

    True skepticism is to have neutral view on the claim that PZ made …

    If true then why don’t you have a neutral view? Oh yes, the conspiracy theorising below covers that! So you even claim to know what “true skepticism” is and still don’t follow it! Wow, so “skeptic”, very MRA.

    PZ DOES have motives, just as you Ool0n have similar motives to act the way you do, and others like you. The feminist agenda and the narrative that stems from feminist theory requires men and masculinity to be seen as bad, negative, threatening, in need of correction.

    Motive is to remove inequality, not your strawman ravings about what you fantasise at night that feminism is all about. Men and masculinity are not, separately, seen as “wrong” or threatening. But when you casually associate what we call masculinity in our culture with solely men, then yes that is sexist rubbish. Scientifically proven sexist rubbish since whenever so-called “male traits” are examined there is far more variation within gender groupings than without. Feminists want to cast off the irrational assumptions that “masculinity” is male or “natural” when you identify as a particular gender. So surprise, surprise you demonstrate yet again you have no clue what feminism is about.

    Fuel is needed to keep the fire of feminism burning. If a certain group of people make a claim about the nature of skeptical/atheist conferences and this claim turns out to be lacking in substance then the face saving tactic is to exaggerate current or past events or just to simply make stuff up. You Ool0n and your mate PZ and many of his followers are the ‘keepers of the flame’. And you lot are not going to let that flame die out. There is plenty of motivation for desperate people to cut down tall poppies, especially if they don’t see eye to eye with your socio political ideology.

    Tinfoil hat time! Maybe think a bit more about that “true skepticism” thing you mentioned at the beginning of your comment as it’s gone very wrong since you mentioned it, ROFL.

    (thanks for putting me on Blockbot level 2 by the way, I wear it like a badge of honour)

    We already know you are an “outsider” Mark, cool and edgy, intellectual yet in touch with your emotions, being ostracised by your much hated reptile aliensfeminists clearly plays into this happy delusion. I’m glad for you!

  38. Bob says

    Wrong – many MRA’s recognize actual rape for actual rape. However, 80% of incidents which are claimed as “rape” in the United States involve absolutely no force element (no violence, no restraint, no threats).

    This is unacceptable and I would jury nullify Ted Bundy until feminists capitulate to the idea that women have agency and stop accusing men of rape when nobody has been forced to do anything.

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