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Nov 23 2013

There Is A Reason We Think You Are Harming Men

There is a sub-sect of the MRA movement in which resides the Pick Up Artist.

See, the problem with MRA is that they forget about Men’s Rights and go straight onto bashing women’s rights. There are many men who fight for the rights of men who don’t do this, but a lot of men would rather bash women than help men. They begrudge women setting up shelters for abused women but do not show the same solidarity. Their haunts are cloistered worlds of slow bigotry. From the more “moderate” places like A Voice for Men where such charming denizens were found happily cooing along to their writers attacking women’s rights in Afghanistan and India to places like the Spearhead where there is a fairly large smattering of racism or people like Judgy Bitch who was outright blaming rape victims for their rapes. In this there is a sub-sect of people who are Pick Up Artists who think that there is a specific method for getting laid simply by following certain steps.

Yes we can all agree there are issues with being a man that are not spoken about clearly and yes a lot of that is men going “dude! Stop being a wuss” rather than women saying that.

But there are some statements that are so unbelievably vile that one cannot even fathom WHY or WHAT logic drove them to say such a horrific thing.

Now here is the thing. I think Roosh and the writer Tuthmosis are manufacturing controversy here. I place the link out of my sense of fair play although it gives me no sense of pleasure to do so.

Nothing screams white-girl problems louder than a good old-fashioned eating disorder.* But they’re more than that. Eating disorders have been—quite appropriately—declared a luxury reserved for only the most privileged members of the female race. In other words, the presence of one of the classic eating disorders is a reliable predictor of various socio-economic, cultural, and personality traits in a young woman–features that, in the end, are desirable to today’s American man. In a world where the “retail price” on the typical Western woman continues to skyrocket—while their quality continues its precipitous decline—there are some real gems to be found in the bargain bin.

It’s okay. I speak fluent wanker.

Eating Disorders are for White Girls with no real problems and that possession of such a disorder is not cause for concern but celebration as your date fits into the PERFECT Venn diagram that makes her economic value to you perfect in a world where the white woman has become worthless. Unlike Asian girls I suppose (and definitely not black women! Don’t be silly! They never had any value to the PUA anyways!).

I figure I can get away with saying this due to my karma balance. I helped save the life of a random stranger on a train who had a prolonged series of seizures earlier and I figure I can get the feeling of smug washed out of my system by translating this horrid person’s writing to simple English.

It starts of by pointing out the problem with the PUA community. They do not see women as human beings but a commodity  to be gained through the gun kata of being the “Artist”.

If they meet these  statistical points then women CANNOT resist having sex with them. In the same way that Equilibrium’s Gun Kata  was that if you mathematically calculate  gun fights you can assume stances that allow  you to not only dodge gunfire but fight back too.

I’ve dated several girls with eating disorders—in various intensities—and all of these traits have applied to each of them.

*While obesity is, in most cases, also an “eating disorder,” this list doesn’t apply to emotional eaters, food addicts, and fatties with no self control.

I have never had an eating disorder. I am obsessed with my weight to a healthy degree in that I wish to lose weight because I feel that I am overweight and since diabetes  and coronary heart disease run in my family, I would be happier if I took precautions to avoid one of the major triggers for those diseases. I would like to lose around 5 to 10 Kg and be vaguely fit enough to run a couple of Km without wheezing my lungs out.

Emotional Eating is stress eating and it’s a coping mechanism in humans where we transfer stress into acts of pleasure and one of the most cardinal pleasures is food. Food Addicts I  assume are people with poor self control and those do exist. I am one of those. I am overweight because I over ate. Most of us are in this situation. The food we have is delicious and it is awfully easy to ask for seconds.

OR the food we have is inherently unhealthy and eating a normal amount of it will result in a massive amount of calories.

Most people lie within this problem of being overweight. If we chose to control our weight we pick up the sensible plan. Diet, Portion Control and Exercise. It’s hard work since it is changing a habit of a lifetime but it is done. And yes obesity is a health issue. Many rail against the arbitrary values placed on the BMI but the BMI is actually a pretty sensitive indicator of obesity. It’s more accurate in women than in men (Men’s bodies have a bigger variation of shape than women and tend to be in the larger size range where variation of weight is more possible. as someone who is 5ft 11 I know my peers can vary in weight from 60 Kg to 80 Kg and still be considered healthy and that is a rather large spectrum. It is a guide to health and while being overweight is less of a problem than being underweight it is still stated that being overweight is “something to watch”. It’s the stepping stone and there is no harm in keeping it in check.

But I cannot speak for those who have the more severe conditions of anorexia and bulemia.

And yes it affects women a lot more than men. It does affect us men too but this is a recent trend. Traditionally men have not been forced to fit into a specific body image and women are not told to fancy a specific body type. Women RARELY say “No Fatties” and even if they do say it they are not as heavily invested in that statement.

With the rise of photoshop you can make the models on your magazine impossible. Impossible Skin, Impossible

Oh PUA translation – No Fatties, Only Skinnies. K Thanx Bai.

1. Her obsession over her body will improve her overall looks.

A girl who spends inordinate mental and physical energy on her looks is rarely fat. If you were to get into a long-term relationship with one of these girls, she’s also less likely to become complacent about her physique over time. Girls like this are usually deft at properly dressing their body type, which translates into a more stylish girl overall. And, because cheap clothing lines—like H&M—are shaped with straight cuts that are less labor-intensive and therefore more inexpensive, they look good in even the cheapest of shit. While they may have a “distorted body image” on the inside, that usually means staying trim and fit on the outside. Let’s not forget that fatties too, in the majority of cases, have a “distorted body image,” but in the unattractive direction.

It’s a look to die for.

Such as Isabella Caro who was the face of an anti-anorexia campaign who died due to the disease. Anorexia sufferers are prone to depression and have high suicide rates in addition to effectively starving themselves giving them a reduced immunity which makes them more prone to disease and complications of such.

We are told that fashion magazines and websites and designers use “impossible” women as the ideal and women try to achieve In Real Life the effects created by professional photography, make-up and photo shop.

Not only is he airbrushed to 11 but the caption next to his head is so big a lie that if he were Pinocchio he would have put your eye out with the magnitude of that lie.

There is a moderate correlation with this. Unfeasible image consumption does lead men and women to idealise the impossible and set it as a goal.

You can never beat Barbie. And the photoshopping of celebrities and models on magazines makes it impossible to attain. We are not discussing the medical usage of BMI to provide rough guidelines to ideal weights but we are discussing the fashion industry.

The model above who passed away was just 25 Kg at 5 ft 4… There is a MASSIVE difference between that and 50 Kg which is the MINIMUM safe weight according to the BMI for someone at that height. At that level we would be telling you  to watch your weight and eat better. The fashion industry takes women who are at the low end of the BMI spectrum and uses both flattering photography, perfect fits of clothing and photoshop to make the models look even thinner. Many of these models may have anorexic and are still enhanced.

The fashion industry is notorious at encouraging anorexic models to fit into their outfits.

And this is a tragedy. Even if it is a tragedy for rich white girls we can still fight it. Even if it is something that my patients don’t face it doesn’t mean I cannot understand that there are others who suffered this and

What he basically says is “Girls with such disorders will always be skinny and look good cause their clothes will all fit perfectly. Also? Cheap Clothes! YAY!”.

2. She costs less money.

You can go out to nice restaurants and order take-out with the confidence that your expense on her will be minimal. In most cases, she’ll get a small dish–like a side salad–or just eat a little bit of whatever communal dishes you order. If you’re a hungry bastard, you can even finish off her plate.“Are you going to finish that?”

I am a voracious eater.

And even I consider this a major faux pas.

If your wallet is taking such a heavy beating at restaurant dates then I suggest you stop going to expensive restaurants and insisting on paying for women…. oh wait Gun Kata! Sure keep doing that mate.

I am going to pay for a woman’s dinner but I don’t want to pay too much.

3. She’s fragile and vulnerable.

The case has repeatedly and persuasively been made that an inflated ego and an unearned high self-esteem are among the most unattractive traits in a girl. You-go-girlist “confidence”—grounded in little more than years of being told she’s a unique and special snowflake for no other reason than she was born female—renders a woman into an insufferable turd who thinks the world revolves around her.

An eating disorder often translates into the direct opposite: a girl who’s modest, fragile, and vulnerable. Instead of having to constantly wrestle with a difficult and obnoxious girl, you’ll be dealing with a tastefully insecure girl, who’s eager to please, and wants nothing more than your approval. She’s quick to apologize for transgressions, and will make the extra effort to see you–instead of flaking on you constantly. This level of vulnerability often brings out the best in men, whose protector instinct can’t help but get activated.

He’s right.

What he is saying is that women with eating disorders will have issues that you can exploit to make her reliant on you. You want someone who is vulnerable to your arseholery. You want someone you can bully. You want someone who thinks she is fat so that you can say that she isn’t so that she will think you are the only person who thinks she is beautiful.

You want someone who thinks you are her only chance at love and who won’t leave you even if you are a terrible human being.

Which if you do this you are.

After all, there is only one insufferable turd who thinks the entire world should revolve around them.

And I like the concept of tastefully insecure. A girl who is insecure enough to forgive all of Tuthmosis’s many flaws and eat frugally but not insecure enough to be a burden to him.

4. Probably has money of her own.

They aren’t too many poor girls with eating disorders. These girls come from money, and often continue to wield that spending power right into their adulthoods. Her instinct to please you will translate into her picking up tabs, coming to your door not empty-handed, or buying you little gifts.

If you are in a relation for free gifts then I am afraid you are rather a terrible person and when your relationship fails it is not because she is a soul sucking succubus sent by Satan himself but because you are a dick.

5. She’s better in bed.

It’s a well-known fact that crazy girls are exceptional in the sack. A girl with an eating disorder hasjust the right cocktail of pent-up insecurity, neuroses, and daddy issues to ensure that your whole building knows every time you’re beating it up.

So what he wants is someone so insecure that they will do and say anything to please his mighty manliness.

Say what you will, a girl with a mild-to-moderate eating disorder—that hasn’t excessively marred her appearance—is today’s best-buy in the West’s rapidly plummeting dating market.

So you want a woman with a sexy eating disorder…

This is incredibly incredibly stupid. If you are trying to represent men then you are doing a great job in making us all look like horrible dickheads.

There is nothing of value here.

And the worst bit is Roosh weighed in with his own piece.

Eating disorders are bad

I want to make it clear that we at ROK are not promoting eating disorders. These are devastating illnesses on those whom they afflict, and we wish sufferers are able to receive the treatment they need. It is unfortunate that sufferers continue to be stigmatized by society, so it surprises me that Tuthmosis’ article has been angrily received when it attempts to reduce stigma by encouraging our male readership to give women with anorexia and bulimia an opportunity for real intimacy. This is far better than merely giving patronizing e-support by outlets like Huffington Post.

We are educating our masculine readers not to pass on eating disorder victims just because they have an illness, yet instead of receiving thanks, we’re receiving hate instead. If we all had cancer, and someone wrote an article titled “5 Reasons To Fornicate With A Man Who Has Cancer,” we would spread it far and wide to make fornicating with us a better proposition for women. We would notsend death threats or calls for censorship like is happening to us now. I think a bit more graciousness is in order for our unorthodox method of outreach.

It tried to reduce the stigma by referring to anorexia sufferers as crazy white women  who have daddy issues, neurosis and who will let you walk all over them and will fuck you senseless.

No this is like saying the reason you should shag men with cancer is because they will leave you all their wealth and die soon.

The Tuthmosis case

Upon closely reviewing Tuthmosis’ article, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing in it that endorses eating disorders or slanders those who have them. He has simply shared knowledge and insights that can aid single men in their pursuit of sexual happiness without hurting women. While some of his statements may be subjectively interpreted, we’re not a scientific journal, and so should not be judged in that manner.

Was Tuthmosis’ article offensive? Was it tasteless? Not to me and not to the bulk of our male readership. It is not our job as a men’s publication to ensure everything we write does not offend 7 billion human beings on this planet, so there is no legitimate reason to remove the article, and those who are calling for it to be removed should instead visit the graves of America’s great founders and speak into the ground about why they don’t believe in free speech simply because their feelings have been hurt by mere words. As a staunch believer in free speech, I will do all I can to make sure ROK contributors like Tuthmosis can share their opinions and experiences freely, especially when it does not advocate for violence or breaking the law.

Therefore, the article will stay and Tuthmosis will stay. We respect your freedom of expression, even if they include death threats and calls for mutilation on our genitals, but I sincerely hope you can gather the strength to handle one article on the internet that you don’t like. If you want to engage us in a sane dialogue about this matter, feel free to reach out via the comments below or through email. God bless.

I actually read the comments on the article.

No… even many of the men decided that the article was so much bullshit that you could grow a couple of acres of wheat on it.

No I don’t think it should be removed. I think we should put it up there till we have it hammered into our heads that PUA community is filled with immoral people who prey on women rather than treat them as equals. If they are representative of the pinnacle of masculinity then I want no part of it and neither do men everywhere.

I am no expert on anorexia. I have not suffered it and I only know of one person who has had it who has spoken to me and that too very casually. But I have seen people starve to death because they have no food and I know the damage such starvation can cause. I know the value of food and I know what starving is like myself when I was a refugee when I was younger. And I know that anorexia’s clinical condition is starvation. The aetiology is psychiatric but the clinical feature is medical.

So I will not give any advice to anyone who suffers this. I will put up two things that helped a lot of people including myself to understand eating disorders.

And what’s worse? Is that it completely glosses over the rising number of men with “manorexia” or the desire to meet the unreasonable body image associated with masculinity. This is a rising problem and many PUA are in the MRA community too and this is a genuine problem with little being done because we still glorify enormously muscled men.

The NHS Web Site on it.

And this.

And I will say this again. The PUA community don’t half have some terrible people in it.

10 comments

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  1. 1
    throwaway, never proofreads, every post a gamble

    The PUA community don’t half have some terrible people in it.

    I’m afraid I can’t comprehend the meaning of this sentence at the end.

  2. 2
    Avicenna

    It’s a British Saying. It means “The PUA community has some really terrible people in it”.

  3. 3
    skemono

    Nothing screams white-girl problems louder than a good old-fashioned eating disorder.* But they’re more than that. Eating disorders have been—quite appropriately—declared a luxury reserved for only the most privileged members of the female race. In other words, the presence of one of the classic eating disorders is a reliable predictor of various socio-economic, cultural, and personality traits in a young woman–features that, in the end, are desirable to today’s American man. In a world where the “retail price” on the typical Western woman continues to skyrocket—while their quality continues its precipitous decline—there are some real gems to be found in the bargain bin.

    You know, on initial glance I thought this was a statement about how some disorders and diseases are stereotypically assumed to only happen in a certain class of people, likely because those people have access to health care that can diagnose these issues. And that it was calling for us to recognize that eating disorders cross racial, economic, and gender lines and can affect all people and we need to be more cognizant of that and improve care accordingly.

    But then I saw this was from an MRA site, so, nope!

  4. 4
    M can help you with that.

    as someone who is 5ft 11 I know my peers can vary in weight from 60 Kg to 80 Kg and still be considered healthy and that is a rather large spectrum.

    It can extend beyond that, even; I’m only an inch taller, but my lean mass alone is about 80kg.

    (Of course, it’s not too difficult to spot people who are the outliers in terms of how well BMI predicts body fat; and for us, unless we plan some sort of extreme bodybuilding regimen it’s not too much effort to get a more careful estimate of lean mass once and then track our weight assuming that most of the change is in fat.)

  5. 5
    Michael Caton

    In this US at least, there have been studies looking at eating disorder rates by ethnicity. There is no evidence that they vary by ethnicity; they’re not “white girl” diseases. They do happen more often to females than males, but eating disorders in males are still not that uncommon.

  6. 6
    SallyStrange

    Yeah, poor women get eating disorders. Women of color get eating disorders. I have no idea how comparable the rates are, but I am sure there are many of these women who struggle with these disorders without getting treatment, in part because of a lack of access to decent health care, and in part because of the very same stereotype our erstwhile OP believes in.

  7. 7
    Mary L

    An eating disorder can lead to serious health problems and death. Who wants a man that doesn’t care about that in the woman he is dating? Or marries?

  8. 8
    Samsara

    “In a world where the “retail price” on the typical Western woman continues to skyrocket—while their quality continues its precipitous decline—there are some real gems to be found in the bargain bin.”

    Hmmm……..I have a ‘retail price’?

    I’ve known several anorexic women- both personally & as patients.
    NONE of them were financially ‘well off’ by any means (even the anorexic professional fashion model & the MD/PhD employed at a major research facility) – although many came from wealthy families.
    All of them were highly prone to crying & tantrums, none seemed remotely interested in sex, & all have aged prematurely.
    Many also had a substance addiction problem – (meth, crack, meds used for ADD (i.e. methylphenidate), & chain smoking were common).
    High dose Prozac, buproprion & Topamax were common amongst the anorexics for both their antidepressant properties as well as appetite suppression.
    None of all these meds & ‘therapy’ required would make them ‘bargain bin’ in my opinion – although it would qualify them for fragile.

    As for ‘fatties’, I think they suffer a lot of unwarranted abuse.
    If you don’t like obese persons stay away from them- they know they’re fat & don’t you to tell them.
    The reasons for obesity are so many, varied, and not understood I think the ‘shaming’ of the obese that is deemed culturally acceptable in the US is abusive.
    Want to send someone into depression & SAD? Body shaming will do it.
    Obviously diets don’t work – otherwise there’d be no fat persons.
    I do blame obesity to a great extent on a modern culture that promotes less weight bearing & cardiovascular exercise.
    Want to lose weight?
    Get a trainer, learn to do weight lifting exercise that with increase your muscle mass & help retain your bone mass.
    But are there many gyms & trainers that are friendly and welcoming to the obese? I don’t think so.
    Muscle burns more calories than fat, so with more muscle you’ll burn more fat- even when resting.
    I’ve found increasing muscle mass in my diabetic patients to be extremely effective in controlling blood sugars.
    As far as diet goes- there is absolutely no need in the human diet for sugars/simple carbohydrates.
    So cut the sugary/high glycemic stuff out & do your body a favor (including that sumo sized pile of white rice) – then eat what you want if you’re exercising.
    I’m not buying the American ‘Fat makes you fat’ advertising campaign that has been passed off as ‘health advice’.
    Americans eat less fat now than they did 20 yrs ago & are getting fatter, so fat intake isn’t the problem.

    I could really care less what my ‘retail price’ or quality as a western woman is – I make more $ easily than most western men, will weigh what I damned well please & am happily married.

  9. 9
    Nepenthe

    Please refrain from perpetuating the idea that anorectics are all skeletal women. Many of the women and girls in the ward with me were what would be thought of as ideal body types, just slightly underweight, and these were people deemed too sick to be released. One woman was normal weight, but had come to the ward after spending a week in the ICU following a heart attack. She was in her 20s. The reason that eating disorders have such a high mortality rate, though, is suicide.

  10. 10
    Hue

    Normally I do not learn article on blogs, however I wish to say that this write-up very forced me to try and do it! Your writing style has been surprised me. Thanks, very great post.

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